Large slide moves in.

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Large slide moves in.

December 04, 2013, 07:33:19 pm

Haven't noticed this before - but the large slide is creaping/moving in. At first we heard a noise from the bladder rubbing against the slide exterior. I deflated the bladder and hit the extend button and the slide went out maybe 1". Turned the key off and the bladder inflated. We sat and listened again and we heard the same sound. The DW sitting on the couch said she felt the slide move a bit. I presume that there is a solenoid and check valve somewhere that may be leaking fluid back there by not holding the appropriate pressure. There does not appear to be any drips or puddles of hydraulic fluid in any of our bays.

I did a forum search and saw that Brad S. had a similar issue. I sent him a PM.

Thoughts?

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #1 – December 04, 2013, 08:39:15 pm

Found the attached file @ HWH. Guess we will visit FT for this one.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #2 – December 04, 2013, 08:50:06 pm

By now, you have my verbose PM (sorry) and the two HWH documents.

And that document is actually http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml42737.pdf When Joe sent it to me, he used another nomenclature with a period in the middle...but it is searchable on their website.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #3 – December 04, 2013, 09:30:49 pm

We should have a separate forum for 02 slide issues.

Your coach is 14 newer than ours. I have an appointment at HWH Monday morning if the weather doesn't keep me from going. I don't like being away from home in single digit weather but don't have much choice. We have made three trips to Nach and still have issues.

There was a grey (best I remember) coach next to us last summer at FOT with a slide creep issue. Don't remember the year. He was heading from there to HWH because FOT couldn't figure it out. I think he was a forum member and there was a post about it. Seems like it was a U320 tag.

Good luck with it. Keep us posted.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #4 – December 04, 2013, 09:34:59 pm

Yup. Us 2002 owners could fill a forum all by ourselves. The endcap issues are pretty much behind us, but our current bane seems to be the "train" slide system. Please do share anything you learn for those of us too far from Iowa!!!

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #5 – December 04, 2013, 09:38:47 pm

I will buy you a plane ticket to Oklahoma and you can take it instead of me. Think of it as an educational experience.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #6 – December 04, 2013, 09:49:15 pm

Brad - Thanks for the link - Same one I found on the HWH web site. I must admit that your story is NOT encouraging. Verbose - I think not - informative - yes.

Johnston's - Thanks for your input. Your story is NOT encouraging either.

Iowa is a long way from Houston.

I will call Drew at FT tomorrow and ask him his success rate in curing the "2002 Slide Creep" issue.

Thanks

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #7 – December 04, 2013, 10:13:10 pm

Scott,

It sounds like your slide locks, may not be engaging the holes. That could be caused by the Hall effect sensors on top the slide not being aligned - or maybe that doesn't apply when the slide is out. Do you have any HWH control panel lights remaining on? Is the transmission in lock-out; flashing when you run the engine and try to shift into gear?

Jim 2002 U320

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #8 – December 04, 2013, 10:16:49 pm

Wish i could remember who had that trouble last summer. It would have been first couple of weeks in July. I may search posts and see if something rings a bell.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #9 – December 04, 2013, 10:35:31 pm

Jim - Thanks for the thoughts. I believe the slide lock pins only engage when the slide is in. Don't ask me how I know. I don't know if any HWH lights are on. If some were I do not know what they would mean. We have 2 stack control boxes. When the slide is in we have no issue getting into gear and moving.

I will specifically ask Drew tomorrow if they catalogue repairs/problems by year, part and model.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #10 – December 04, 2013, 10:41:22 pm

Will sure be interested in what you find out. My friend here in town with an 02 U295 has not had problems with his.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #11 – December 05, 2013, 12:19:41 am

Quote from: Carol & Scott – December 04, 2013, 10:35:31 pm

I believe the slide lock pins only engage when the slide is in. Don't ask me how I know.

You are correct. And we have the only year of the "Train" system. I don't exactly know what that means, but it is important for others reading this stuff that it is *only* in reference to the 2002 model year...270, 295 and 320s. I *think* these problems are only related to the living room slides...should you also have a bedroom slide.

Once I successfully use the HWH Isolation Kit, I'll keep everyone apprised about my creep issue. I wonder if all of our "creeps" are the same.... Mine is the rear, moreso on the bottom than the top.

Oh, and Joe Portelli of HWH also noted that yes, indeed, allowing the creep to just happen could cause the slide to pull the bladder out of position and tear it. I had been simply releasing the bladder and pushing the extend button...until Joe told me that could cause the slide to get out of synch, which is what my June 2013 problem was.

Basically, if you have slide creep, there are two choices: 1. Leave the slide in until the creep is resolved and fixed, or 2. Release the air bladder at intervals and then turn it back on (to eliminate any lateral stress from movement while the bladder was inflated, yet keep the seal). I'm choosing option 1 for now.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #12 – December 05, 2013, 07:59:24 am

Scott and Carol, we have coach 5955, just one coach from you on the newer side. Our 02 living room slide issue was resolved this summer. It was not slide creep, but computer related. HWH replaced the entire canister set and all is good. We have flushed the entire system and added new fluid. We did that when we had the slide seal replaced. FOT did that if I remember, although it could have been HWH. It almost sounds like low fluid or a slow leak someplace.

I worked with Randy at HWH and also with Joe. Both are excellent! And I'm a pro at changing out computer canisters now! Got it down to 5 min on removal and 10 min to install? FOT charges an hour for each!

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #13 – December 05, 2013, 08:25:07 am

My coach is #6054 and there has been a few slide issues but mostly getting a squeak out when driving down the road. Had it out for about 10,000 miles but has come back somewhat at times.
Sounds like wood rubbing wood when it is there. Comes and goes. The slide has always operated properly in and out. When I first bought the coach MOT took the slide out and reworked all the gismos and reinstalled it. The rear slide moves in and out quickly and quietly. One of the things I like about the Foretravel is the air level with no jacks. I now have 99% of my air leaks repaired. How long that will last who knows. DAN

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #14 – December 05, 2013, 10:34:54 am

Hi Dan,

My 2002 U320 has living room slide squeaks and I agree it often sounds like wood on wood - right behind the driver. It seems to come and go with temperature changes; worse until it warms up. Still chasing this one.

My other, higher pitched, squeak turned out to be the locking pin receiver (loose bolts) behind the upper cupboard, above the driver's head.

On a slightly related topic - be sure to check that the water drain tubes (in the slide wall) for the locking pin receivers are open (to the small openings on the bottom of the slide). I blow mine out with air once in a while. Also check to see that the fiberglass around the slide pin locking holes (outside, on top of the slide) are not cracked and leaking - as a clue, rain water accumulating inside the slide frame may end up on the coach floor.

Jim

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #15 – December 05, 2013, 03:43:09 pm

Drove up to FT this AM. Talked to James and Drew. Both were aware of the problem although could not comment on how often the repair has been reported or how successful the repairs had been. I was hopeful that the problem (slide creep) being identified had been recorded along with the repairs required in some sort of a data base at FT. Wishful thinking. It is interesting though that both were aware of the specific problem(s) and suggested leaking lower left cylinder, bad solenoid, check valve or maniforld. James also suggested I check the nuts at the end of the solenoid to assure that they are closed. James also suggested I exchange the questionable solenoid (extend) with one that is working - replace the "O" rings when doing this. If the slide creep continues - it is not the solenoid. I think I will try this. In looking at the lower left cylinder under our dinette I do not see any fluid leaking. James also said that the cylinders rarely malfunction.

At his juncture I will also contact Randy at HWH - was wonderfully helpful when I spoke with him previously - and get his thoughts. In the meantime, I will wait for Brad to complete his test and Rick's journey to HWH. I will be anxiously awaiting the results from both of you fine "gentlemen".

Tom & Bill - Your fix is also interesting and would like to chat with you regarding the details. Have not heard about the computer thingy before. Could we chat on the phone some time? If you might be available please advise date and phone # - PM me?

Brad - I will follow your plan 2 which is to allow the slide to creep in 1" or so and reinflate the bladder and see what happens. James advised that the slide creep is only about 1" to 1-1/2". Hopefully no water. If I get some leakage I will fall back to your plan 1 which is to leave the slide in until a "fix" is complete and successful.

Ain't life grand. :-)

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #16 – December 05, 2013, 04:10:49 pm

Are all the solenoids the same? I have learned that the front pair of extend/retract valves are for the locks, and the two towards the rear are the actual (front) slide valves. If they are interchangable, that would be helpful in the process.

I'm sorry to be dragging my feet on my testing, but my helper is extraordinarily busy and I have a bit of Christmas positioned in the way of opening the slide right now.

I certainly hope it isn't the cylinder.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #17 – December 05, 2013, 04:47:40 pm

Brad - I understand that all of the solenoids are interchangeable. On our manifold there are 3 sets of two. On mine the closest to the rear bulkhead are for the front slide, next towards the nose of the coach is the set for the rear slide and the set closest to the nose of the coach is for the locking pins. I thought I had posted the diagram somewhere here but can not find it so....

Rear of bay

Room 1 extend Room 1 retract Door side of bay

Room 2 extend Room 2 retract

Locking pin Locking pin

Nose of the coach

I have also attached a pic(I think) of my set up. I would guess that yours is the same. In looking at the pic - to the right of the motor and solenoids is the basement door. The solenoid closest is for the locking pins and the set furthest away, and hardest to get to is for the front slide.

Give me a call if you wish.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #18 – December 05, 2013, 05:11:49 pm

Brad,

My understanding is all four (two above and two below) cylinders operate in extend and retract modes. The locks for the slide operate separately. It would seem you might have check valve(s) bi-passing/leaking and when the pressure is finally equalized, the slide quits moving when shut off.

Thinking air in the system might be a factor I presume you have checked the level of fluid in the reservoir. It needs to be 1" below the top when the slide either in or out depending, upon which letter-of-the-alphabet system design you have. That's my 2 cents.

Even though there is a time delay to get to talk to a tech, calling HWH might be your best resource. They might be faster to return a call in the dead of winter.

Jim

2002 U320

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #19 – December 05, 2013, 09:02:20 pm

I don't think hwh will be much less busy now. 2 weeks ago I was in Omaha and wanted to move to Lincoln Ne which is about 50 miles. There was a threat of snow coming. I tried to get my slides to retract and no luck. Called hwh and was told it would be 2 weeks before I could get a call back. I told her that I could not wait that long as I could not move my coach, She said that she would have someone call me as soon as he was off the phone. Randy called me in about 10 minutes and he was able to talk me through the system and we got the slides retracted. It turned out to be the shut off valves to the vacuum solenoid manifolds were leaking so much that the compressor could not keep up. When I got to Lincoln I replaced the valves and now can make the slides work. I can not say enough good about hwh. While I was working I talked to Joe many times then there were more calls than he could handle and he was also doing some of the development and they added Randy and he is very good at helping. The solenoid valves are the same. Country Coach also used the train system and they were a real pain to work on also. I think that the kit Brad has is the way to go to find out what is leaking. Usually it is the solenoid valves. Under warranty we would always replace both the extend and the retract solenoid valves and that would fix it, but at the price for the valves, really need to know which to replace

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #20 – December 05, 2013, 09:15:25 pm

Scott: Yes, I have determined which is which, and you did send that info before. I traced down my hoses and am positive that the room is the rear two solenoid valves. Since I only have one slide, there are only a total of 4 cans on my manifold. How do they come off? Are they just screwed into the manifold? You said replace the o-rings (which must be present on the inside ends of the solenoid valves???). Do you know the size?
If running the isolation kit does shows a pressure leak increase on the guage, I'm sure a cheap "next test" would be to swap the lock extend valve with the identical room extend valve...but I don't want to take them off until I have the right supplies (O-rings) to reassemble them.

Jim: No air in the system, and the level is good (checked in the extend position on a 2002 with the "Train" system). I just have to get out there and install the shutoff valve they included with the kit and then run the room in and out a few times which will bleed off the air that I introduce when I place the valve inline.

Red: Thanks. Yes, Joe is responding as he can to my emails, and the onus is on me to do the testing now. I don't want to bug him yet and wear out my welcome with him. If the extend valve is the culprit, I'll swap the two and see if it is better. Then I'll know my culprit. I wish I had asked more questions of Luke at RnR so I'd know if they replaced the right one...and if it IS defective, well, it ought to be under warranty if I haven't waited too long.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #21 – December 05, 2013, 09:24:24 pm

I do not know what size the o rings are, but if there is a hydraulic shop close, take one solenoid out and take it to them to get new o rings. It won't leak more oil once the solenoid valve is removed. I think that your instructions will tell you how to release the pressure from the valves before removing, and yes they do screw out. The bleed screw can be turned with the fill hole cover or a 1/4 inch socket. If you have to put in more fluid try to get the hwh fluid as it does not have the red dye in it, which is important incase of a leak inside the coach

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #22 – December 05, 2013, 09:57:00 pm

Found another interesting read on the HWH website: http://www.hwhcorp.com/HydraulicsandHWHSystems.pdf#page=5 Maybe I can pound something into my head about hydraulics. (For some reason, the link starts at page 5...when I changed it to page=1, it wouldn't display. Probably an Ubuntu issue...)

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #23 – December 06, 2013, 12:00:17 am

Brad - I got the "O" ring set at FT today. PN: RAP6554 - Name: O-RING KIT AIR SOLENOID. The kit comes with 2 sizes of "O" rings. 6 smaller diameter and 6 larger diameter. I think the smaller ones go on the solenoids not sure about the larger ones.

Red Tractor - Thanks for the input.

Re: Large slide moves in.

Reply #24 – December 06, 2013, 12:43:42 am

Brad - Just opened and read the link that you posted from HWH. Really quite interesting. I printed the file to PDF995 and ALL 33 pages were captured - so the previous 5 pages are there. This appears to be an HWH educational training text. Where did you get it? It is loaded with great stuff and a new language. I would love to snoop around there and see what else they have. Yea - I am a geeky kind a guy. :-D

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