AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Topic: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted! (Read 3520 times) previous topic - next topic

AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

July 10, 2015, 10:26:38 pm

A Cautionary Tale

This is a story that could have turned out much worse than it did. Last fall we had out coach serviced at Cummins. They did all the normal coach service including checking the air filter. It was OK. A couple trips after service and then in the barn for the early part of the winter. Early January had us heading to Houston to visit Rudy and then to NAC for work at Xtreme. Three weeks there and a few more days in NAC and then west to Arizona and New Mexico. We were on the road for four months.

Somewhere along the way we got a significant amount of water into the sir intake, down the snorkel and into the air filter canister where the air filter got wet.

In four months we only drove in the rain one day, from Prescott to Parker, AZ on March 1. There was a really big storm, lots of rain and wind heading south from Prescott, same heading west towards Parker. The other way, north, west and then south had lots of snow, 20" at the Grand Canyon. The only other possibility was getting the coach washed in NAC.

Well, the result of this was that the air filter disintegrated and air filtration to the engine was compromised. It was Busted! After leaving Parker we went to the Grand Canyon. I noticed for the first time ever that there was some oil spatter on the Jeep and the back end of the coach. There was oil coming out of the breather tube hanging down on the right side of the ISM 450. I checked on the Forum, no hints about checking the air filter. No reason for me to check it but even if I had I think the damage had been done.

Another two thousand miles before we got home. No performance or mileage issues. I did have to add about four quarts of oil. This concerned me because the coach has never used any oil at all.

Back home I took the coach in for an oil change and second Transynd change in the transmission along with the normal filters. I asked them to check on why I was getting the oil blow by and the oil use.

The verdict was extreme engine wear. Dusted they said! Cummins said that severe engine wear is when blow by pressure is 10psi. Mine was measured at 28 psi. The engine ran but somehow I think I was lucky to get home.

So they started tearing the engine down to see how far the damage extended. Turbo, CAC, valves, cam, head, pistons, cylinder sleeves, crank shaft bearings and air compressor all had damage. The internal parts for the turbo were coated with dirt. I could stick my finger in to the openings and wipe out dirt. The turbo blades had significant erosion. The inside of the CAC had grit in it and hard caked on dirt as well as several bits of the air filter. The piston rings were worn to sharp edges. The cylinder liners normally have a cross hatched honing pattern, these were worn smooth, polished with vertical scoring. They were recommending a high level in-frame overhaul. What was I going to say, No? So I said do it. Not cheap. Not cheap at all.

The Service Manager at Cummins suggested I check with my insurance company since the damage was caused by rain and water intrusion which caused the air filter to fail and all of the collateral damage. Good suggestion.

My insurance company agreed after seeing weather reports from that area on that date and the damage reports and pictures from Cummins. Comprehensive covered it as flood damage, minus my deductible. And the oil change, coolant change and transmission service were required as part of the rebuild.

So it took Cummins about three weeks to get the parts and do the work. They even replaced the ECM because it had water damage and was intermittently misbehaving and the fuel pump. They reused the block, the valve cover, the oil pan and the crank shaft and the injectors. Pretty much everything else is new. They ran it on their break in program on the dyno (about 30 min). Steam cleaned everything and painted it to look like new.

I picked it up yesterday. The ECM reports to the VMSpc 0.9 hours and 2.7 miles. 35 miles to home, 9.5 mpg on a brand new motor. Amazing.

So my out of pocket will be about $750 after cash back on my credit card. I bought a spare air filter and I will check the installed one frequently, especially after rain. I got a deflector for the air intake from John Haygarth. That is going on tomorrow. I had several chats with the engine tech, Arvie, who has more than 30 years with Cummins. He was very deliberate about this job, he was the only one who worked on it. He saved every part to show me the wear. He was very careful inside the coach. Susan says it was very clean, even the outside of the coach. He commented every time I talked to him that with the Foretravel engine access it was great to work on. He showed me a couple other coaches that were not. He was especially impressed with how nice the coach looked after 15 years. They just don't see that level of care, pride of ownership and quality on other brands.

The bottom line is check your air filter more often than you are doing now especially after a rain event or a wash down. Get an air deflector. Reports are that they extend air filter life. And make sure your insurance coverage is adequate for the odd catastrophic events.

Cummins discounted everything by 10% for my Cummins Power Club membership and discounted parts and labor an additional $4000 or so. They treated me well and the rebuild has a 12 month, 100,000 mile warranty. It was still expensive. You don't want to have to do this.

Now confidence building starts over with our new engine.

Thanks to Dave M for his support, guidance and remote hand holding through this. It was very helpful.

Roger

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #1 – July 10, 2015, 10:35:13 pm

Wow, I went thru a dust storm on the way east from AZ and when I got to civilization, I stopped at cummins and bought a new air filter. Never thought about water intrusion. Thanks for the heads up.

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #2 – July 10, 2015, 10:44:33 pm

Truly a harrowing and amazing story! Sorry to read of such extensive damage to your coach, but happy to hear you have such a great Cummins dealer nearby! We all should be so lucky. Thank goodness for insurance!

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #3 – July 10, 2015, 11:32:44 pm

Wow Roger I had no idea for you asking me to send you one other than someone had mentioned it to you.
Well firstly the reason I started making them and sending them out to people who wanted one came about because of a trip from Yuma to San Diego years ago while it was snowing and pouring down with rain for the whole trip. On arrival that night the coach was having a tough time to keep running so once stopped I started to do some snooping with engine.
I noticed a lot of water coming out of drain plug in canister and took cover off to find the filter absolutely soaking wet. I removed it and left it under coach while we slept that night. It was dry in the morning so after making sure all was as clean as possible I put it back and started the engine. It ran fine as usual. This proved to me that the intake on Foretravels (many years models) was in the worst place possible and what could I do to change that! It took me a couple of hours to come up with what you now have and since mine has been on my filter lasts many times longer and the last time I changed it (3 months ago) the condition of it was like new!!
I did talk to one of the Techs at FT in 2010 to find out from him what the avarage air filter looks like when they do a service and his comment was that "only the kitchen sink is missing " when he opens them up. I showed him the Deflector I made and installed and he agreed that it should stop the problem, period.
I have full confidence in them and the added bonus of keeping the Rear View camera cleaner for a long time made it a "no brainer"
Glad you had insurance coverage for most of it, now you can drive worry free as that episode will not happen again.
There is one other issue that this Deflector will not stop and that is when washing the coach "NEVER" spray the water into those openings and make sure if you use a Truck Wash place that you tell them to leave that area alone, and the reason why they cannot wash up there.
JohnH

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #4 – July 10, 2015, 11:40:43 pm

All I can say is wow! I will be checking our air filter tomorrow... I can only imagine how it felt to learn about the extend of the damage, but I am very happy to hear about your positive outcome. Having a new engine will make it easier to swallow and it sounds like you came out of it as well as can be.
Don

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #5 – July 11, 2015, 06:59:22 am

Thanks for posting the cautionary tale - and it's very interesting to read that your insurance company covered it - would you share who you use? First hand experience with claims handling like this is so much more valuable than "who's got the lowest price".

For those interested in John Haygarth's deflector, here's one of his posts with description and photos rear air intake --on some models

We just added this mod to our "to do list" for this year.

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #6 – July 11, 2015, 07:32:40 am

Michelle, I have insurance with State Farm. I provided an internet story about the "epic" storm, photos, a description of the damage and the water infiltration from Cummins and an email from James Triana stating that this was most likely from an extrordinay rain event.

It was raining pretty hard coming south from Prescott with strong winds changing directions frequently as we drove theough the mountains.

I have looked for a gauge or something that woukd tell me if I had no restriction in the air intake system, a failed air filter, without success. The service guy at Cummins said OTR trucks sometimes have a pressure gauge for this. Something that squacks at high and low settings..

Roger

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #7 – July 11, 2015, 09:45:56 am

What a story! A damaged engine....one of my top worries. Sounds like it all worked out for you. I will definetly check my filter as we had a lot of rain in the Texas panhandle on our way to Taos.
Still hope to meet you on the road.

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #8 – July 11, 2015, 11:47:00 am

Whoa! What a story and another thanks for posting it. The first thing I did this morning was check my air filter. I do have a question, however. Wouldn't our filter restriction gauge indicate the water logged filter? All I know about the air filter is that it is actually more efficient when it is partially restricted. Of course, they aren't talking about a water event.

I want one of Haygarth's shields! John, you can make some beer money as everyone that reads Roger's post is going to want to buy or make one.
jor

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #9 – July 11, 2015, 12:24:54 pm

After Roger's experience, demand might just outpace John's production capacity!

I was the beneficiary of one of John's deflectors when we visited last September. I haven't installed it yet because I have to make a slight modification to the deflector because of my larger camera and because I wanted to coordinate it with my LED clearance light installation. However, this project has just risen several places on my project list. Back in January of 2014 when Xtreme was doing our headlight conversion etc., I chatted with Rance about integrating a fiberglass deflector over the area, which would include clearance lights, but time didn't permit any follow up. Still, that would be my ideal solution... maybe someday, but John's deflector definitely does the job, I may just have to live with a slight lower horizon when my camera is in the up position.
Don

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #10 – July 11, 2015, 12:29:33 pm

Quote from: jor – July 11, 2015, 11:47:00 am

I want one of Haygarth's shields! John, you can make some beer money as everyone that reads Roger's post is going to want to buy or make one.
jor

Jon, I don't think you need one of John's shields. The air intake on my coach is in a different place. Its above and behind the side radiator near the passenger side, rear corner. I know that some of the 93, U300's and the older U300 coaches drew air down low by the front of the radiator but I think the later models intake is where mine is. I have never seen any sign of water intrusion. Water would have to travel up hill and about 6 feet to get to my filter.

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #11 – July 11, 2015, 12:57:11 pm

When I had coach washed at Blue Beacon Thursday, they wouldn't even approach the rear of the coach until the engine was off. I didn't even think of water injection then. I will check filter more often, because we have torrential rains often I Houston.

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #12 – July 11, 2015, 01:36:22 pm

I have the original filter as well as a representative piston and set of bearings. I checked the old filter. The filter that was in the coach was a Luber-Finer LAF9396. It appears that it was replaced just before we bought the coach in 2011 in California and was checked at two service points since we owned the coach, the last one late last summer.

I checked my Foretravel Service book. It just says to check the air filter minder and the air intake system every six months up to 48,000. I can not find any replacement schedule. Cummins recommends replacement based on restriction.

This Luber-Finer filter appears to be a lower priced replacement. It has no internal wire mesh, just on the outside. If it had and the filter material had gotten wet it may not have just blown in.

The original filters are Donaldson P149043 $52 at filterspro.com or Fleetguard AF 1838M
Cummins put in a WIX 42610 which has an internal wire mesh screen. $77 at Amazon.
I ordered a replacement Donaldson DBA5024 which is their high end line. $72 at filterspro.com.
All of these had some shipping $.

Roger

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #13 – July 11, 2015, 02:56:16 pm

Roger,

Sorry to learn of your big problem.
Do you have a total dollar cost for all Cummins parts and labor? Could this be another place to put the water alarm we already have in MANY places in our coach? I could see putting the sensor wire up through the water drain hole and maybe bolting the sensor to the inside of the case or cable tie the sensor to the outside of the air filter element.
Water detector alarms Sorry we missed your July 4th weekend.

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #14 – July 11, 2015, 02:59:46 pm

I also installed one of the JohnH deflectors about a year+ ago, inspecting the filter is amazing how much less dirt has accumulated in the filter & canister.
Thank you JohnH for the idea/concept & design. I did not paint it, just sprayed clear coat on it.

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #15 – July 11, 2015, 03:17:19 pm

Our last air cleaner from FilterBarn.com was Fleetguard AF-1838, $58.55 no freight if total order is over $100. We change our air filter pro-actively at around 2 years We buy all of our filters from FilterBarn.

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #16 – July 11, 2015, 03:18:04 pm

Kent is correct as GVs generally do not need any that I have seen so far.
The quote from Sedalange about the Truck Wash Blue Beacon is good, EXCEPT that even with engine off because of the location of the intake to actual filter this would not make much difference as water will still find it's way to can. As I said before NEVER spray water into that grille, just use a wet cloth or sponge to clean it.
Filters will dry out so the best time to check is AFTER driving in lots or rain. I would not take out filter though, just sqeeze the rubber plug under the can and see if any water comes out. If you do take end cover off to check do not remove the filter just inspect it then clean cover and refit.
Not only will this Deflector keep out water and dust it will save hundreds of Dollars over time in replacing a good filter. My last one was on 4 yrs and still good, but as I had removed it I decided to put a new one in anyway.
JohnH

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #17 – July 11, 2015, 03:55:01 pm

Barry, All's well that end well, I hope.

A complete in-frame rebuild with all the stuff they put into mine was in the upper $20Ks. The discounts here helped the insurance company, a fact that I made sure they knew. The cost all depends on how soon you know you have a problem. I think mine went from OK to very bad news in about 4K miles. Dave M suggested there are probably other shops that could have done the same work for quite a bit less. But the coach was there and I don't know any better shops.

Good idea to check the little rubber water drain for water. A water detector in the snorkel just before it goes into the air filter canister sound like something to try. I am not sure is there is too much extra room in the canister itself.

The coach did get washed at Xtreme and at Precision Detail in NAC but it was long after that before we noticed anything amiss.

I have been looking at differential pressure gauges. When restriction is high they read higher. Time for a new filter. I have not found one that will alert me if the restriction is too low. From what I can see on the filter water got the bottom inch or two wet. The filter is tapered so it was only at one end. The part that blew open was where it was wet. I don't think I would have seen a significant increase in restriction from just that area being wet. A proper filter with an interior screen probably would have not failed at least not in this way. For what this cost I could put on a new filter once a month for the next 20 years.

My insurance person really went all out for me on this. They should I have been with the same agent for more than 40 years.

So now it is time to put this good/bad lesson behind us, put the air filter on my regular check list, pack up and hit the road again. Sand dunes (and a nice dog) are calling in Idaho. Then the beach on the Oregon coast. We will see as many of you as we can at the GrandVention with some questions for the Cummins folks.

A couple FT visitors before we are out of here as well. What fun!

Roger

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #18 – July 11, 2015, 05:12:26 pm

Well, I'm headed out to check my air filter. I had our coach washed at Blue Beacon recently and they required that all engines (Detroit and generator) be off while they were working.

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #19 – July 11, 2015, 05:41:24 pm

Quote

Kent is correct as GVs generally do not need any that I have seen so far.

Kent and John,
The setup on my 95 GV is the same as the one on my 99 bus. Intake up with the rear view camera and air filter down low. Here's a couple of photos.
jor

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #20 – July 11, 2015, 06:12:52 pm

I would say anyone that finds their air filter without an internal wire mesh should change it asap! Maybe a call to Luber- finer with part number to confirm that this is how it is manufactured?
Even with the added spoiler it still is going to ingest some amount of moisture.
I have watched my air canister expel a steady stream of water after running in hard rain, never had any performance issues though. Running a Wix filter for the past ten thousand miles still looks good.

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #21 – July 11, 2015, 06:44:44 pm

From your explanation, I can see a value for water detector in the air intake. These water alarms have a long thin sensor wire that could be put in the behind rear camera space, accessible from over bed cabinet, with alarm inside bedroom.
You guys go west and have lots of fun with your well running coach. Catch you on the road somewhere. . .
Thanks for sharing with us all so we can be aware of what could happen.
By the way, since a shot of water into the air intake can be a problem, I realize that in the 15 years we have owned our coach no one but us has washed our coach. And Cindy has never used a hose spray of water to the gelcoat and now paint surface. So we probably prevented a wet air cleaner problem without knowing it. Coach sides and roof are normally washed with a bucket of water with a dollop of car soap.

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #22 – July 11, 2015, 10:30:47 pm

Jor, you are right as it is the same design and suspect to both water and dust etc. I will add you to the list if you want me to?
Doug, to answer you question/comment, after installing the Deflector when I first made one I did check during rain filled trips to see if any "moisture" did get past and was happy to see that it did not. Previous to that there was lots of water in can. The other side of this is that dirt/sand/leaves and any amount of crap that gets sucked into them was not now happening so this was an added benefit in my mind.
Barry's idea of a moisture meter is good but that does not protect against all the other stuff that gets in, and this will extend service life even if one never drives in rain. This is an added benefit that can save money with needless changing of the filter.
IMHO
JohnH

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #23 – July 11, 2015, 11:03:32 pm

Thanks for letting us know about this problem. I would like to throw in my 2 cents. Apparently Foretravel has used this same type of air cleaner two different ways.

On my coach a 96 U270 made in Aug 95, one of the early versions; the air cleaner is mounted parallel to the back of the coach, rather than fore and aft, and the air enters the big end of the filter and the dirt and dust collects on the inside of the filter.

With the fore and aft mounting the air exits out the big end of the filter and the dust and dirt collect on the outside of the filter. With this arrangement if the filter does not have expanded metal on the inside it can collapse as in Roger's case.

I believe that most of the coach's built a year or so after mine have the fore and aft mounting arrangement. My coach also has a device in the vertical pipe before the air cleaner labeled water separator. It's a bit larger than the pipe and has some vanes that apparently apply a spin to the air to remove any liquid water drops. I do not see a water separator in the picture posted by jor. I'm not sure how well this works as I have noticed that after driving in rain that the filter minder showed more restriction than usual that disappeared after it dried out and was reset. I will edit this post with a picture when I have a chance.

Not visible in the picture of the water separator is a drain tube with rubber device on the end; it's not a cap as there is a hole in the middle of the rubber.

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #24 – July 11, 2015, 11:32:16 pm

Our U300 is a few months older than Kent's coach. It has the old style air intake right behind the rear wheels so it picks up anything they spray back. One of the worst design flaws the coach has. Fairly easy to copy Kent's style with a minimum investment.

Detroit 2-cycles use twice as much air as a Cummins/Cat so especially important to check filter condition. Best price I could find when I replace ours about 3 years ago was ballpark $65.

Pierce

Affiliate Notice