PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

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PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

September 22, 2015, 09:38:09 pm

We wanted to add a PV system to our coach. I do not have the expertise nor large enough balls to attempt this project on my own, so I elected to seek professional help. AM Solar in Springfield, OR is arguably one of the best RV solar specialists in the country. From our home base in Midland, TX we took 6 days to traverse the 1800 miles to Springfield. Our old coach ran perfectly, never skipped a beat, and made the trip without even breathing hard.

I will document our experience for the benefit of other Forum members who might want to try a similar upgrade. I will post installments, with as many photos as possible, as the project progresses.

We arrived at the shop Monday, 9-21, and met the manager Roger Carroll and his staff. The warehouse manager, Cody Enright, showed us around the facility, described the basic installation process, and did a thorough audit of all the electrical systems in the coach. We then talked about where the solar equipment might best be mounted in the coach, how wiring would be run, and how many panels would be used. The shop has a second story inside window that opens into the shop area. From this window, the customer has a clear view and can watch as one of the techs "test drives" different panel arrangements on the coach roof. Once the panel layout was approved, we went back downstairs and waited in a very nice customer lounge while the job estimate was worked up by a salesman. One whole wall in the lounge is covered with a complete, operational PV system that includes all the components sold at the shop. Solar panels on the roof feed the "demo wall", so the equipment is actually live and functioning, and each component can be demonstrated to the customer. Once the bid was approved, the 5-man crew went right to work on the installation.

My first set of photos show the panels being installed on the roof. We decided to go with six of the S-GO160 panels, for a combined rated output of 960 watts. The six panels fit on our roof easily, with lots of walking space between, and plenty of room to work on the other roof items (such as the A/C units). The combiner box will be mounted under the rear panel on the driver side. The cables will go through the roof using a existing hole previously occupied by a video coax cable (from a unused satellite dish which I removed before making the trip). They enter the coach through the ceiling of the aft closet, then run down inside the wall of the closet frame. We decided to place the remote battery monitor and inverter control panel on the bedroom wall, above the existing light, video and generator switches. There are 2 photos of the panels in place. The top panel is the Blue Sky IPN PRO remote meter with shunt and battery temperature sensor. The lower panel is the RC50 remote control for the Magnum Energy MS2812 pure sine inverter + 3-stage temperature compensated 125 amp battery charger. The inverter features automatic "pass through" of 50 amp, 120 volt AC when using shore power or generator. The existing manual inverter transfer switch will be rendered inoperative.

My next installment will attempt to detail the installation of the new inverter, and placement of the solar controllers and electrical sub-panel.

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #1 – September 22, 2015, 09:39:08 pm

More photos:

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #2 – September 23, 2015, 12:14:51 am

Chuck,

They look to have done a nice neat job. Just wondering what the $$ total was so to compare to DIY. Do yours tilt? From below or from on the roof?

Pierce

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #3 – September 23, 2015, 01:02:30 am

@Chuck Thanks for posting. Love the pics. Keep em' coming.

see ya
ken

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #4 – September 23, 2015, 01:41:38 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – September 23, 2015, 12:14:51 am

They look to have done a nice neat job. Just wondering what the $$ total was so to compare to DIY. Do yours tilt? From below or from on the roof?

I won't be able to judge the total "neatness" factor until the job is completed. I think they will do well in that regard.

The panels tilt 45 degrees to either side. Tilting is done manually by climbing up on the roof - no problem for me...yet. They supply 2 support rods for each panel to hold them up in the tilted position. Because I will have 6 panels, 3 on each side mounted toward the outside edge of the roof, they will not normally shade each other in the tilted position.

I don't want to discuss specifics of MY total cost because there were "allowances" made in the pricing of some components that I was asked not to publicize. I will list every major item installed, and the prices are plainly posted at the AM Solar web site. Labor is charged at the seemingly universal rate of $100 per man/hour. I was quoted 42 hours for the complete project...which seems pretty reasonable since our coach will be in the shop for about 3.5 days with 4 or 5 men working (exclusively) on it the whole time.

One of the surprises to me, that has a big impact on the bottom line cost, is the availability of a 30% federal tax credit on any solar components installed in your RV! That's a CREDIT, which comes directly off your final tax obligation. This will ease the financial pain greatly!

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #5 – September 23, 2015, 07:59:18 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – September 22, 2015, 09:38:09 pm

The lower panel is the RC50 remote control for the Magnum Energy MS2812 pure sine inverter + 3-stage temperature compensated 125 amp battery charger.

Chuck,

Out of curiosity, did you also consider/discuss with AM Solar the Magnum Energy MSH3012 hybrid inverter as part of the planning process? The ability to "supplement" lower shoreline capacity with battery power makes it an interesting inverter to us.

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #6 – September 23, 2015, 09:07:23 am

Am Solar are great people and even though there was the tax credit when they installed our first set up we could not get it with being canadians. The lower cost of equipt in US was good for us.
In 4 yrs mine have worked flawlessly and I have tilted all of them many times before (as in Q last winter)
Nice place and very comfortable settings.
JohnH

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #7 – September 23, 2015, 09:54:23 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – September 23, 2015, 01:41:38 am

One of the surprises to me, that has a big impact on the bottom line cost, is the availability of a 30% federal tax credit on any solar components installed in your RV! That's a CREDIT, which comes directly off your final tax obligation. This will ease the financial pain greatly!

Yes, a RV is considered a second home and is eligible for the tax credit. I kept track of ALL expenses and wrote it off.

Pierce

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #8 – September 23, 2015, 11:54:55 am

Quote from: Michelle – September 23, 2015, 07:59:18 am

...did you also consider/discuss with AM Solar the Magnum Energy MSH3012 hybrid inverter...

Yes, we did. They actually have a hybrid mounted on their demo wall, and our tech went through the advantages of same. Two factors entered into our decision to pass on the upgrade. First, we foresee almost zero chance of ever staying in a place where we would be connected to less than at least 30 amp. Second, because the MS2812 is a "mature" model and has been sitting on shelves for a while, they were able to cut me a little slack on the price. Consequently, moving up to the hybrid would have added about $500 to our bill. This solar project was already severely pummeling our budget, so we elected to go with the conventional model.

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #9 – September 23, 2015, 12:16:43 pm

Chuck, looks to be a great upgrade! Looking forward to more pictures and information on your project. The tax credit is a nice bonus.

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #10 – September 23, 2015, 12:40:17 pm

I just wanted to make a quick comment on how beautiful your coach is! I have a 1989 that I try my best to keep up, it's nice to see that there are like minded people out there. Good luck with the install and keep up the good work!

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #11 – September 23, 2015, 12:46:30 pm

Thanks, Andy! Right now the poor coach looks like a tornado hit it - stuff pulled out of all the bays, strewn all over the interior... Makes me wonder how they (and we) will ever get it all put back together again. But we will - it was the same when we had the interior work done at FOT - total disarray followed (eventually) by return to "normal" (whatever that is...)

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #12 – September 23, 2015, 05:23:38 pm

The install looks very professional , how did they attach panels or did I miss that. I'am sure it will work as good as it looks.
Regards, Irwin

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #13 – September 23, 2015, 09:08:12 pm

Everything attached to the roof is held on with a high-tech adhesive...no nasty holes. Sorry, don't have the brand name, but I'll get it before we leave the shop. We stopped by today, and I got a few more photos of the completed roof area. There was a lot of work going on inside and under the coach, but nothing that I could photograph. We had a neighbor in the 2nd shop bay today - a beautiful shiny Airstream trailer. Not sure what they were doing to it...

In our initial conversation on placement of components, I expressed some concern about the location of the OEM inverter. I have always felt the distance from coach battery bank to inverter was excessive, necessitating overly-long cables. To address this concern, the techs said we could mount the new inverter in the middle bay on driver's side, adjacent to the main DC breaker panel (the one under the white fiberglass cover). This would effectively cut the cable length in half. They are also pulling new, larger diameter cables to run from inverter to battery bank. These two changes should minimize the voltage lose due to cable resistance.

Because of the output of the 6 panels (960 watts), our system is going to utilize two charge controllers. One is a SunRunner Signature 40MPPT/4/Pro Core, which can handle up to 700 watts - the other is a SunRunner Signature 25MPPT/6/Pro Core, which will take up the slack. The controllers will both be mounted in the "electrical bay" at the foot of the bed base. There will be a manual shutoff switch for each controller, mounted nearby. This is also where they will put the additional electrical sub-panel for all the new wiring.

I'll have to get photos of that stuff later - didn't want to interrupt the work in progress. More to follow...

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #14 – September 24, 2015, 01:44:26 am

With the use of large welding cables for the inverter, the longer run should not be a problem.

Don't understand the need for two controllers. Seems like a waste of $$ since a single modern MPPT controller can easily handle 1200 watts.

Pierce

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #15 – September 24, 2015, 10:17:29 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – September 24, 2015, 01:44:26 am

Don't understand the need for two controllers. Seems like a waste of $$ since a single modern MPPT controller can easily handle 1200 watts.

I will ask them why 2 controllers when we visit the shop today.

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #16 – September 24, 2015, 11:20:55 am

Great people at AM Solar!!! I had them change my 8 AGM lifelines with lithiums. I already had 4 of their older AM 100's solar panels. They total only 400 watts. I did not upgrade them. FYI, if you change to lithiums you will need a Magnum inverter. I had a Outback but the Magnum has more flexibly in it settings. I also went with the MS 2812. I have 1400 amp hours now which equates to over 2000 amp hours via AGM's.

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #17 – September 24, 2015, 12:09:39 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – September 24, 2015, 10:17:29 am

I will ask them why 2 controllers when we visit the shop today.

Chuck,
Check the MidNite Classic 150 before you speak with them. It seems to be the controller of choice for RVs or home use everywhere. Northern Arizona Sun and Wind sells them for about $610 delivered. Of all the controllers of this brand they have sold (they carry quite a few brands), there has been one with a problem and was replaced in 24 hours. They are made here in the U.S. and support is great. They really helped me when I had questions. We have had ours for several years without a problem with 1140 watts on the roof (potential). Winter with a low sun and a flat installation sees about 600 watts after the sun has been up for a couple of hours. MidNite Solar Products

Northern Arizona's site with clickable controller models and prices: DC Solar Charge Controllers

Can be set up with a IP address for remote monitor anywhere in the world.

Pierce

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #18 – September 24, 2015, 12:14:17 pm

Yes, I certainly agree. Great folks!

AM Solar put 1200 watts on my 1999 U320

best, paul

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #19 – September 24, 2015, 12:18:24 pm

That's the inverter we have.

Ours might have been the first one AM Solar installed.

I had it sent to AM Solar from Northern Arizona Sun and Wind

best, paul

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #20 – September 24, 2015, 01:10:51 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – September 24, 2015, 12:09:39 pm

Check the MidNite Classic 150 before you speak with them. It seems to be the controller of choice for RVs or home use everywhere.

We bought a less-expensive MPPT controller and then, before we did the solar installation, went with the Classic 150. This unit is very configurable, will work in concert with other controllers, and can be updated over the Internet.

I turn off shore-powered charging and just let the solar system and the Classic 150 keep the batteries charged (at least from April through October) because I trust it more than I trust the Progressive Dynamics unit.

Might be too late in the game for you but for anyone else doing a solar install it's something to consider.

Craig

Plus there is an app for it.

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #21 – September 24, 2015, 01:58:49 pm

Craig,

Good point about the Progressive D. unit. Solar controller is less likely to catch fire plus there are usually extension cords between the home outlet and the coach. Coach AC wiring gets a lot of vibration and more likely to cause trouble compared to home wiring (unless I do the home wiring

).

Easy to recall history with the Classic 150. Default settings are not much of a learning curve for the newbie to just connect and go. App is good and can be implemented down the road

as the user becomes more familiar with the system.

I did see a video of someone using flat white reflectors to exceed specs (and probably temperature limits) by quite a bit for a PV panel.

Pierce

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #22 – September 24, 2015, 06:13:40 pm

So, we're at the AM Solar shop now...they say the coach will be ready for us to move back in by quitting time today, so we checked out of the motel, which is always a relief. (One big reason we bought a RV was to AVOID staying in motels)

I asked Roger why 2 controllers. He said one reason is redundancy - by splitting the panel output between 2 controllers, if you lose one controller you still have use of 1/2 of your panels. Another reason is easy expandability - the Blue Sky controller system uses what they call a IPN network, which can connect up to 8 controllers using a single display. If you want to add more panels, and need more controller capacity, you just add another controller module. As long as the whole thing works right, I'll be happy.

We're supposed to stay in the coach tonight, use the systems just like we normally would, and see how the batteries do. Then tomorrow, after the sun is up and the panels start to do their thing, we will get a complete walk-through and tutorial on the whole installation. Plus address any problems, if they happen to arise.

Will post more photos tomorrow evening, after we get the coach semi put back together.

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #23 – September 25, 2015, 12:07:21 pm

Update. They didn't quite finish yesterday - still working on the inverter installation. We stayed in the coach last night, but only had 12 volt power. No big deal...it was cool enough we didn't need A/C. Today they will finish up the install, and give us a briefing on how it all works. They invited us to stay another night outside the shop, this time with all systems working, and see how it goes. Then tomorrow morning we can resolve any questions before we hit the road.

The poor guy who is in charge of wiring made a comment about how the coach is so big, but every place he needs to work is really tight and cramped. He is pulling big cables and control wires through the center "utility" channel. Apparently the aft opening (where all the wiring comes out of the channel into the engine compartment) is very congested. Fitting the new, larger diameter cables through the opening is proving a challenge. He also had to find a place to mount some equipment right next to the batteries - ended up fabricating a aluminum plate the fits right above the existing isolator panel. Every part they use is super quality, marine grade weather proof, so being under the coach in what we know is a "harsh" environment won't be a problem. Looks pretty good to me.

I climbed up on the roof yesterday evening to inspect the panel mounting. Their work exceeds my highest expectations - very neat and orderly - everything tied down well. I could not find anything that I would change ( and I am VERY anal).

Will try to get some photos posted later today, after they finish up and roll us out of the shop.

Re: PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Reply #24 – September 25, 2015, 10:34:46 pm

Photos of the finished product. We tested everything this afternoon, and it all passed with flying colors!

Photo 1, 2 and 3: Standing on roof. Neat, orderly, lots of space to (safely) walk & work. Exactly what I requested.

Photo 4: Coach battery bay - shunt, main DC cut-off switch, 400 Amp class "T" fuse, resettable circuit breakers for controllers.

Photo 5: Battery temperature sensor.

Photo 6, 7: Inverter/charger mounted in center bay.

Photo 8, 9: Under the bed - controllers and cut-off switches, inverter sub-panel. Both OEM transfer switches now in-op, will be removed.

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