99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Topic: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at. (Read 3034 times) previous topic - next topic

99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

December 26, 2018, 06:52:05 pm

Anybody know anything about this coach.?
I like the features and size.been talking with
a salesman dave knight. Sent in some trade info.
Is there any knowledgable inspector types
in the knoxville tn area? pm me.

Price seems high But they are a dealer so.

1999 Foretravel Unicoach U320 for sale in Knoxville, TN | Lazydays

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #1 – December 26, 2018, 07:49:10 pm

I love that floorplan. Who needs a slideout with that kind of planning in layout. Mileage?

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #2 – December 26, 2018, 07:53:31 pm

I had a 1990 U280 Reverse side aisle and really liked it. Great privacy in the bedroom.
John

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #3 – December 26, 2018, 08:02:43 pm

Give them a call and ask for James Holder. He is the service manager and I know he is familiar with the coach.

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #4 – December 26, 2018, 08:08:04 pm

That's the one I noticed passing through Knoxville in I-40 Saturday. It sure looked good from a distance.

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #5 – December 27, 2018, 03:51:17 am

They havnt got back with the milage yet..
it has an m11 450 cummins.

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #6 – December 27, 2018, 08:00:17 am

I have to wonder if this would be a conflict of interest. I would hate to put him in that situation. He did get back with milage 115k
Asking mr holder for info i mean.

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #7 – December 27, 2018, 08:38:20 am

This coach has been on that lot for over a year. I am no expert by any means, but I would ask questions about the aguahot as this coach had a residential looking, small water heater strapped inside a cargo bay when I looked at it. Consignment coach, I believe. I will attempt to attach a picture.

http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32558.0;attach=58730;image

Also it is 40ft, not 36 as listed.

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #8 – December 27, 2018, 09:39:33 am

If it's been sitting a year, it will need some love

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #9 – December 27, 2018, 10:07:15 am

I hear what your saying about sitting a year if true.
I thought it looked long in the pic.

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #10 – December 27, 2018, 11:23:13 am

That hot water tank could be an extra one to give better quantity as CC many times have an extra one after the Aquahot, but you could also be right about that being defective and this is a cheap fix.
Seats all look dry and cracking and I do not like the looks of that bay photo posted by Navy bean. I would be checking all of them etc for water leaks and rust as to me that is a good sign of bad maintenance when bays are dirty and stained. I say be careful.
JohnH

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #11 – December 28, 2018, 08:54:35 am

Thanks all for your replies. I asked about the aquahot and he said it works fine. That the domestic hot water failed an they bypassed it
with this hwh. I thought the aquahot supplied all
hot water for heat and domestic? also cant you
switch to run engine coolant as well as running
the aquahot to preheat the motor?
He said the aquahot worke for the hydronic heating, Sounds like this works like a zoned oil furnace and perhaps a zone may not be working?
Oh and they confirmed its 40 ft not 36.

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #12 – December 28, 2018, 09:35:03 am

Quote from: varmonter – December 28, 2018, 08:54:35 am

Thanks all for your replies. I asked about the aquahot and he said it works fine. That the domestic hot water failed an they bypassed it
with this hwh. I thought the aquahot supplied all
hot water for heat and domestic? also cant you
switch to run engine coolant as well as running
the aquahot to preheat the motor?
He said the aquahot worke for the hydronic heating, Sounds like this works like a zoned oil furnace and perhaps a zone may not be working?
Oh and they confirmed its 40 ft not 36.

The AH supply's all the heat for coach and engine while on diesel. You can preheat the engine with the AH and running down the road, the engine supplies some hot water as well without the Ah running. It also has an electric mode and that could be what is not working. A zone not working is possible as well. Just guessing here! We loved our AH, but did have issues over the 6 years we owned our coach. Personally, I'm not a fan of Lazydays, having dealt with them in Florida when trying to purchase a used Nimbus last year. Having sold RV's in the past, not much of a fan of dealerships in general!

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #13 – December 28, 2018, 09:52:15 am

Aqua hots put out continuous hot water at 1.5 gallons per minute. Another electric heater could add to that amount. Or the heater is a bypass for a damaged part of the aqua hot?

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #14 – December 28, 2018, 10:10:16 am

there is no reason to change out the aquahot domestic water unless there is a problem with the aquahot. The aquahot supplies your heat to four zones (one in basement, front, rear and bathroom) as well as engine preheat and domestic hot water.

The reason someone might be incline to hack the system is that if the aquahot was damaged in some way by freeze damage it could be leaking the antifreeze into the domestic water in some fashion, but still be able to operate. In this way a $10K plus rebuild might have been avoided.

On a coach this age you want impeccable, documented maintenance. I would not give $20K for a coach with this configuration, it reeks of someone cutting corners. Fools trap thinking there is a bargain out there to be had. Good stuff moves at a fair price. Coahes that are poorly maintained and/or have sat a long time will require significant (very significant) maintenance in the first two years of use, which unless you can do 90% yourself will more than overrun any savings you might achieve in the original purchase.

I have a 2000 U-320. Way over improved. Way. I am maintaining an about to be 19 year old motorcoach. It is valued at approx 20% of new, and the depreciation each year is minimal. I LOVE it. That is the good news.

Over the past five years (pretty much all by my choice as preventive maintenance) I have upgraded the electrical, refrigeration, painted the roof, replaced air bags, replaced all the batteries, replaced the fuel lines, rebuilt most of the HWH system, replaced the slide bladder and a host of other amintenance items. While I paid to have most of this done, and it was quite expensive, I am still money ahead over buying a newer Allegro Bus or Cornerstone and having 5 years of depreciation expense on either of those coaches.

My observations

These FT coaches hold up amazingly well
pre 1995 Foretravels are simpler machines, non-slide and non-aquahot versions require less maintenance overall than those with those features. That being said, I would not give up either the slide nor aquahot. "Do what makes you happy"
a 1999 - 2003 Foretravel is the best bet out there for luxury coach enjoyment at a relativelylow total cost of ownership
Paying more for a well maintained coach is the lowest cost option in the long run
If you can do the maintenance work yourself, you can save lots of $$$ - labor rates in most shops are $100 - $125 PER HOUR.
These coaches are getting long in tooth, budget for expected and unexpected maintenance items. They will happen.
The more you use a coach the less it will break. Tim's law.
My 2000 model cost over $400,000 new. we are all maintaining aging and initially expensive machines. Not likely to be cheap.
There is no such thing as an older luxury cost with low cost of acquisition AND low maintenance expense. The $5,000 you think you save by not using a dealer, or buying off ebay or an estate sale or distress sale will vanish in one significant service event.
Budget $5,000 - $10,000 in the first year of ownership for unforeseen maintenance, you may not spend it, but the worse it was maintained and the longer it sat, the more likely you will see "surprise" maintenance needed in the first two years.
These coaches are very affordable for what they represent. However if one can't have $5,000 - $10,000 available (ongoing after the first year) in ready cash for "surprise" (and relatively occasional) maintenance expenses, then I recommend that you consider another option for your RV enjoyment. I am sure I will hear from others that claim that had not been their experience. For those folks I only hope that is their continued good fortune.

Having said all that, these coaches still represent amazing value and quality. They still are a very low "total cost of ownership" leader if you want a luxury diesel pusher class A motorhome. The factory support and importantly this forum make the ownership experience even better.

You are on the right track looking to buy a Foretravel. I may be a bit overly pessimistic, but if so, your only surprise will be on the upside.

Good luck and good hunting - we enjoy hearing these stories as people move towards owning one of these fine coaches.

I assume you have checked out the available coach selection at Motorhomes of Texas - their prices reflect the actual "market" prices of these coaches - you will pay less in a private sale and you may get a wonderful coach at a nice savings, just make sure the owner maintained it, records of that maintenance are available for your inspection and have it looked at by someone like our Brett Wolfe that knows exactly what he is looking at.

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #15 – December 28, 2018, 12:04:01 pm

Thanks much for the thorough reply.
We havnt talked money yet on this coach.
its a consignment coach. searching the web
shows coaches in better and worst shape then this
one. they are asking 69k for this. but they are a dealer. And lazydays seems to be like a car dealer
to me. Ive seen these from 34-89 k on web.
Ive asked for more pics and they as well
of my trade. Helps me to go thru the motions.
to ascertain their integrity as well as giving me
time to think/research. Never owning a mh i want
to learn more and would rather get an older
good quality coach than some white box on a
motor home chassis. Anyone else deal with lazydays in knoxville? Theyve been good so far
of providing what ive asked .
Im a bit dissapointed that their add said
36 ft and its actually a 40. Id post some pics
here but dont know how.

Quote

There is no such thing as an older luxury cost with low cost of acquisition AND low maintenance expense. The $5,000 you think you save by not using a dealer, or buying off ebay or an estate sale or distress sale will vanish in one significant service event.

Yes but how does one determine between
a good coach at a fair price and an overpriced
money pit. Dealers are seldom if ever inclined
to let you know whats wrong with the coach.
Its my due diligence that requires them to be
forthcoming.

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #16 – December 28, 2018, 12:24:56 pm

Tim laid that out very nicely. We have over improved ours as well. That is common with these as they take on a 57 Chevy mystique for some. As he said, we too are way below the depreciation of units in total cost that we looked at a few years ago in Hershey. I wanted a platform to learn and enjoy.

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #17 – December 28, 2018, 12:42:21 pm

Vermonter, this became Lazydays only a few weeks ago. They bought out Tennessee RV. I would imagine changes are occurring.

I use them for service and have for years. Hopefully not much changes in the service department, time will tell. The service manager is James Holder. He owns a classic Foretravel. Roger previous owner had two FT's. This facility use to be a Foretravel dealership.

I bought my coach from MOT and had it inspected first by forum member, Brett Wolfe. I had an excellent experience all the way around and I ended up with a well sorted FT that will be around long after me. If I ever find myself wanting to buy another FT I'd head back to MOT. As long as James stays at Lazydays I'll ocntinue to get my service done there.

You will find that this forum is your best resource for all things Foretravel. The members are extremely generous with their time and expertise. I spent more than a year learning everything I could here before I felt I knew enough to buy a FT.

My coach is our first, and probably last motorhome.

Good hunting, enjoy the ride!

Edited to add: Reach out to Brett Wolfe. Plan a trip to Nacogdoches to see as many coaches as you can at FOT and MOT so you can figure out what you like and dislike. Perhaps You can pay Brett to look at the coaches with you. In my opinion that would be the best money you can spend. Brett is a great teacher.

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #18 – December 28, 2018, 01:05:20 pm

Seems I saw some really nice units being sold here on the forum. Priced very reasonably, at least, it seems, to me. I guess " trade in" is the keyword in the post. Most of us don't want to go through the hassle of negotiating the sale of the units we now own. I know that when we decided to buy our FT, it was the wrong time of year to sell our very well maintained trailer. It was weeks before Christmas. We ended up having to put the trailer up for sale on consignment, it took almost a year to sell, and of course, I took it in the " shorts". I looked at it as the added " real " cost of purchasing our FT. So, in reality, we paid a premium for our coach. No regrets, though. We didn't buy it for an investment. We bought it because we both fell in LOVE with it.

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #19 – December 28, 2018, 02:24:33 pm

Quote from: GleamB – December 28, 2018, 01:05:20 pm

Seems I saw some really nice units being sold here on the forum. Priced very reasonably, at least, it seems, to me. I guess " trade in" is the keyword in the post. Most of us don't want to go through the hassle of negotiating the sale of the units we now own. I know that when we decided to buy our FT, it was the wrong time of year to sell our very well maintained trailer. It was weeks before Christmas. We ended up having to put the trailer up for sale on consignment, it took almost a year to sell, and of course, I took it in the " shorts". I looked at it as the added " real " cost of purchasing our FT. So, in reality, we paid a premium for our coach. No regrets, though. We didn't buy it for an investment. We bought it because we both fell in LOVE with it.

Normally, nobody does well with a trade! EVER! Dealing with a dealership, the dealership always has the advantage. This, however, is not a bad time to negotiate a deal. Units are slow this time of year and especially around Christmas. It is always better to speak with the previous owner if possible and a must have with books and service records on the coach.
Understand the falling is love thing, as we all have had that at one time or another. lol
We were very fortunate in our search the first time out. Bought from a private sale and at a great price. Had very little problems with our coach and traveled from coast to coast in confidence! When we sold it, we spent 3 days with the new owners going over everything and allowed them to stay in the rig as well for 2 nights. Hard to get a better deal than that!

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #20 – December 28, 2018, 02:55:46 pm

I understand that these are not investments.
They are not my house .( not yet anyway)
And like any vehicle they are going to depreciate.
This is why i could never buy a new one.
So much depreciation right out of the lot.
Ha then there is that 800k.
Our plans are to sell the house and do the park
host thing for awhile. south in winter north in
summer. I can fix things for the most part.
shy of engine/tranny overhauls. But dont want
to spend all my time doing that.

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #21 – December 28, 2018, 03:04:22 pm

Quote from: varmonter – December 28, 2018, 02:55:46 pm

I understand that these are not investments.
They are not my house .( not yet anyway)
And like any vehicle they are going to depreciate.
This is why i could never buy a new one.
So much depreciation right out of the lot.
Ha then there is that 800k.
Our plans are to sell the house and do the park
host thing for awhile. south in winter north in
summer. I can fix things for the most part.
shy of engine/tranny overhauls. But dont want
to spend all my time doing that.

If you buy a well sorted coach you probably will not have to spend much time other than normal maintenance. These coaches are for the most part bullet proof if they have been maintained correctly. Most of our spending (other than tires) has been cosmetic.... making the coach our own. The best thing you can do is learn as much as you can about these great coaches before you start shopping. The forum is a great place for that. I would not have bought a FT without this forum's wisdom and ready assistance from generous folks that are much smarter than I am.

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #22 – December 28, 2018, 03:10:45 pm

"Varmonter",

You've gotten a lot of good advice. I especially like Tim's summary. Having said that, I have a couple of additional thoughts for your consideration.

An AquaHot 100 (the OEM AquaHot model most likely in an 1999 U320) has two closed hot water systems. One closed system (a copper heating coil wrapped around the diesel furnace burner chamber) is for the hot water for the faucets and the shower (what I think LazyDays is calling "domestic hot water"). The other closed system (the box around the copper heating coil). The fluid in the box is heated by the coil AND the burner chamber AS WELL AS an electric heating element AND the Cummins motor when IT is running and up to operating temperature. That second closed system is for the coach heat exchangers and the motor "cold start" heating plumbing.

To understand the separate closed systems concept, SEE THIS GENERIC AQUA HOT animation:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiy0pel58LfAhUEmuAKHUXWBmAQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3BIgbX-Fs5w&psig=AOvVaw0Ax2fmx3KUUeX0ZpxvPwLc&ust=1546096082375506

For a dealership to represent that the Aqua Hot system "works fine", but "part of it is bypassed and an electric heater has been installed", is a gross misrepresentation of the "works fine" condition of the vehicle. A breach of the hot water coil for the faucet's hot water closed system portion of the Aqua Hot means that poisonous antifreeze can leak from closed system number two to the potable water closed system number one. It is also a good example of why you need an independent, unbiased inspection by a knowledgeable (hopefully, Foretravel) experienced person.

This coach appears to have numerous warning flags and signs of neglect:

A jury rigged Aqua Hot workaround repair, rather than a proper system repair

As pointed out by Tim and just guessing here, but most Aqua Hot coil failures (which this appears to be) are due to improper winterization and subsequent freezing damage

The next most likely reason for coil failure would be due to improper coolant chemistry maintenance of the second closed system, which has compromised the potable hot water coil.

Decals are unsightly and failing badly. That implies a lot of DIY work or a costly replacement expense, either with replacement decals or paint, if aesthetics are important to you.

Reluctance to provide mileage (VDO odometers in this era failed frequently and failure to be forthright may mean that mileage is unknown. Be advised that lifetime mileage is available on a Cummins engine ECM data readout. Lazydays knows this, even if you were not aware.

At least some of the furniture has not been maintained and shows staining, cracking, discoloration. Carpeting appears to be heavily worn and stained as well. Mismatched valances, front to rear, and not color coordinated with exterior colors, means some thing has been changed from original. Look for proper repairs/changes.

New generation 2100XC Washer/Dryer,. That is very good, but they did not take time to install a drip pan/leak pan that drains overboard, which is penny-wise but pound-foolish.

TV change outs appear to be "least cost" available options

Utility bay door sprung or just misaligned?

Mismatched headlight ages

Mirror decals or mirror chrome shot?

Bays show inordinate wear and staining

As a "Northern" coach, I would be extremely cautious with the front and rear bulkhead condition/state of repair.

From the ad, there is very little evidence of typical coach enhancements and upgrades, which often indicates a PO's poor attitude, pride or budget. All lighting, shades, flooring, windows, headlights, instrumentation etc appear to be original, which is unusual for a well "loved" coach.

I also have never had an honest, positive, ethical experience with Lazydays (Florida) and (this next part is unqualified hearsay) I have never met Class A owners that have good things to say about Lazydays. Some have had the worst imaginable experiences. So I urge you to be very cautious. I have no experience with Lazydays current behavior and ethics in TN. I just don't have any faith in their parent organization.

I have had experience with the previous ownership of the current Lazydays facility (TN RV) and, while not under James Holder's service manager control, I was treated so poorly regarding egregious repairs, errors and dealership management/ownership behavior, I swore to never go back there again and I have been able to avoid them ever since. Other FT owners have had similar experience while still others have had better experience in the more recent past. Just be very wary.

HTH,
Neal

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #23 – December 28, 2018, 03:15:16 pm

Quote from: Jeff & Sandy – December 28, 2018, 03:04:22 pm

The forum is a great place for that. I would not have bought a FT without this forum's wisdom and ready assistance from generous folks that are much smarter than I am

Plus one!

Re: 99 u320 in knoxville im looking at.

Reply #24 – December 28, 2018, 03:20:23 pm

"I would not have bought a FT without this forum's wisdom and ready assistance from generous folks that are much smarter than I am." One of my requirements for our full-time coach was an active owners' group made up of at least a good number of people who do their own work. Another requirement was that the manufacturer still be in business. I stretched that last one to include the Bluebird Wanderlodge because so many of the factory people were actually on the forum - still driving the coaches they made. One high quality brand was scratched from the list because they required me to own one before allowing me to ask questions on their forum.

There are people on this forum who have literally done everything possible to their coaches, including doing major engine work. I have neither the skills nor the equipment to do that, but at least those people can tell me if a mechanic is trying to raid my bank account with unnecessary work.

Lay out what you want your coach to be able to do and what your initial purchase budget is. Share that with the forum and we can suggest which coaches (year and model) fit your needs. Once you find one that looks good to you, ask specific question here. If you can, get Brett Wolfe to inspect your prospective purchase. Once you get it, put the coach information into your signature and start asking the specific questions you have. Someone has the twin to your coach and can help you.

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