Help me value a rare bird?

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Help me value a rare bird?

December 31, 2018, 03:03:35 pm

If I tell you a bit about a one-of-a-kind vintage Foretravel coach, could you help me get a sense of its value, what might be involved in restoration and at what cost, and hence whether restoration is worthwhile?

My mom used to live on the road full-time for her business. She went through a succession of motorhomes over the years, ultimately piloting this Foretravel 40' diesel pusher. She closed the business over a decade ago and the coach, known to us as Big Bertha, has been sitting in a Nevada desert storage facility ever since.

First fun fact, Big Bertha was originally custom built for a Texas oilman. It is over-the-top inside with cowboy hat racks, brass bar rails, and fake brick in the kitchen. Rather than stuffing more features into the floor plan, they subtracted the dinette and made everything Texas-big instead: big ol' kitchen, big ol' closets, etc. Needless to say though, it predates the era of slideouts. There's lovely walnut wood everywhere, with those sweet tambour doors.

This coach must have been built shortly before the Unihome era: it's got the traditional pointy beak and orange stripes. But while most of the old-look diesel pusher coaches had the infernal wandering Oshkosh chassis and 3208 Cat, this one was built on a rare Hendrickson chassis with a 6V92 Turbo Detroit Diesel (probably aftercooled, probably non-DDEC, originally Silver Series but replaced at some point with a red-block). The transmission is an Allison automatic (probably 4- or 5-speed non-electronic) and there's a Jake Brake. Hendrickson is known for mobile MRI trucks; they offered a motorhome chassis for only a short time AFAIK, positioned at the high end of the market. It's got a very nice air ride.

The original owner swapped in a different rear-end ratio—giving the coach a decidedly imprudent top speed but slow acceleration from a dead stop: certainly not a tradeoff I would have made, though perhaps it makes sense for fast Texas highways.

Unusual for the era, Big Bertha has basement storage, resulting in a tall coach with a stack of front bumpers—three as I recall!

In any case, Big Bertha has been sitting in a Nevada desert storage yard for ages now, with nobody coming by to care for it really. I've heard of Detroit Diesels starting up even after decades so I assume it can be started, and while I doubt it was winterized properly it doesn't snow in Vegas so I assume I won't find burst water lines...but I'm thinking of all the things that must need replacing even if that stuff is OK: batteries, tires, maybe airbags, etc.

As far as the body, I think it's sound; there's just one small spot toward the rear that could stand minor body work. I'm not sure if the roof is one-piece or rubberized on a coach of this age, but if not then that's one possible worry. I assume the graphics will be faded or cracked by now; if so, are they just vinyl striping that can be pulled off, or actual paint?

Is she worth saving? At what cost? Could she be flipped (or enjoyed) or would restoration be a certain money-loser? What to do with her if not?

Based on initial response here, perhaps I could make a trip out to visit the coach, see how things look, and take photos to share for further feedback.

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #1 – December 31, 2018, 03:39:07 pm

What year? VIN if you have it.

Pictures a real help.

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #2 – December 31, 2018, 04:15:11 pm

Craneman has its sister coach.

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #3 – December 31, 2018, 05:35:29 pm

Quote from: Treedom – December 31, 2018, 03:03:35 pm

If I tell you a bit about a one-of-a-kind vintage Foretravel coach, could you help me get a sense of its value, what might be involved in restoration and at what cost, and hence whether restoration is worthwhile. Big Bertha was originally custom built for a Texas oilman. It is over-the-top inside with cowboy hat racks, brass bar rails, and fake brick in the kitchen. Rather than stuffing more features into the floor plan, they subtracted the dinette and made everything Texas-big instead: big ol' kitchen, big ol' closets, etc. Needless to say though, it predates the era of slideouts. There's lovely walnut wood everywhere, with those sweet tambour doorsIs she worth saving? At what cost? Could she be flipped (or enjoyed) or would restoration be a certain money-loser? What to do with her if not?

Answer.........YES! You've found a 'rara ava' I'm still dinking around to buy this dear that's been sitting around for WAAY too long. But, to not fall in love with those 'orphans', means you don't have the 'passion', and I'd forget it and buy a SOB that no one will wave at.

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #4 – December 31, 2018, 07:34:50 pm

"Could she be flipped (or enjoyed) or would restoration be a certain money-loser?" No matter what you do, the value of the coach won't increase anywhere close to what you spend on it. If you're looking to make money on this, forget it - you won't. If you are looking to update this rare bird and enjoy it go ahead.

I'd suggest an extra large helping of caution. You are going to have to replace all the tires and batteries, and that will be just the beginning. Before you install new start batteries and hit the switch check ALL the wiring. Mice seem to think that insulation is really tasty stuff. They don't know about short circuits. A fully charged battery going directly to ground makes a dandy welder.

Assuming that you get past that part, brakes would be next on my list. Start with the assumption that every brake is frozen. If it turns out that they aren't you are ahead of the game.

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #5 – December 31, 2018, 08:53:10 pm

Treedom.
You may have the Unihome's and the Unicoach mixed up. The "pointy nose" would have been a Unihome built before the Unicoach. A Unicoach will have the bus front. 1995 is about the last year that Unihome would have been mass produced ( so to speak ) Foretravel style that is. Our coach ( once called a hybrid ) has some of both such as the GrandVilla nose and center entry with the newer ( Unicoach) dash, bay doors and rear pentagram engine door. I would like to think it also has the heftier frame for a M11 type engine but maybe not. ( like I'll ever get that conversion 😂😂).

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #6 – January 01, 2019, 09:24:59 am

The last GV's ( Unihome 280's and 300's ) were built in 96 with another 6 built in 96. From then on it was bus fronts EXCEPT for a rare few GV320' built to order til about 2003 or 04. A GV on a Hendrickson is rare indeed. CAFLASHBOB can probably fill you in. Personal opinion...... Probably cost upwards of 20K to bring back to operational shape, would not be worth it to me.
If you were a deer hunter in the south it could be a deluxe deer camp.

Gary B

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #7 – March 09, 2019, 02:02:53 pm

Again : NOT A UNIHOME. Nose is pointy, not rounded. Year is 1983 (confirmed now) not 1996. Exciting part is I have pics now! Link to Google Drive folder of pics: http://bit.ly/2C8JDLq
Turns out we have to move it by the 25th so at this point I'm more interested in finding someone to take it off my hands than to restore it myself. I know these old Detroits will start right up after decades, given fresh juice, so...

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #8 – March 09, 2019, 03:47:31 pm

Would have to be cheap! Lots of time and a little $ to bring this one back. How about engine photos. Can tell a lot about the engine from the photos. Could be a mechanical engine but photos will tell. Never seen one with three bumpers stacked. Got to be a decent DIYer and then could make a fun and inexpensive coach. How about info off the transmission?

Pierce

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #9 – March 09, 2019, 03:52:39 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – March 09, 2019, 03:47:31 pm

Would have to be cheap! Lots of time and a little $ to bring this one back. How about engine photos. Can tell a lot about the engine from the photos. Could be a mechanical engine but photos will tell. Never seen one with three bumpers stacked. Got to be a decent DIYer and then could make a fun and inexpensive coach. How about info off the transmission?

Pierce

6V92TA Detroit. Original was Silver Series but was replaced by red/green block late in life.
Allison automatic (presumably 4-speed).

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #10 – March 09, 2019, 04:11:48 pm

Man, that thing is dusty on the inside... windows left open? Which it was on the east coast!! I'd love to tackle it.

David

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #11 – March 09, 2019, 05:08:34 pm

Quote from: Treedom – March 09, 2019, 03:52:39 pm

6V92TA Detroit. Original was Silver Series but was replaced by red/green block late in life.
Allison automatic (presumably 4-speed).

I was thinking that a photo would show if it is electronic or mechanical. Easy to tell as the electronic engines will have the ECU mounted on the engine. Pros and cons to both. Electronic engines have no rack to run and the injectors are dirt cheap. But you have to watch a lot of videos to learn how to install injectors and use the rack to make sure every unit injector is in sync with the rest. Electronic engines have the DDEC do it all and there is nothing to adjust except for the valves. A reader/programmer can test all the injectors with a push of a couple of buttons.

The Jake is a real plus!

Pierce

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #12 – March 09, 2019, 07:22:03 pm

Quote from: ratbug – March 09, 2019, 04:11:48 pm

Man, that thing is dusty on the inside... windows left open? Which it was on the east coast!! I'd love to tackle it.

David

Two windows were left open slightly. Not sure when tho. No apparent rodent action inside or out. It's a desert coach: born in Texas, adulthood in California, retirement in Las Vegas where it now sits. No salt rot on the underbody. The wife has threatened me with dire consequences if I take on another project, so it's near-free to a good home.

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #13 – March 10, 2019, 11:42:48 am

If someone were to take on the enormous amount of work to restore this, you should just give it to them for their cost of having it carried to their location. Tires, batteries, brakes, fuel lines, scrubbed fuel tank, wiring .... You would need that before you could drive it away. You are not gonna get $$$, so you might as well get Karma!

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #14 – March 10, 2019, 12:18:38 pm

Sadly, this one is too far gone - I am reminded of the folks who spend $120,000 to fix up a 1973 GMC motorhome, only to hope to get back $40 - $60K after a long sales process.

Unless someone had an emotional connection and limitless funds available there is no economic value in this coach higher than selling the parts off piece by piece (big job, and slow process, you will still be left with a lot to scrap) or getting it (somehow?) to an RV parts scrapyard.

Neglected in Desert sun for so many years - roof is suspect - look at the stain around the air conditioner.

another one bites the dust...wish there could be a different outcome...

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #15 – March 10, 2019, 01:07:32 pm

We took one that had been sitting for 27 years and with very little $ but a lot of scrounging and weeks of work, it gave us a lot of enjoyment with trips to Canada and Mexico. It was not pretty but the fridge worked, the air kept us cool on hot weather and the most important, it provided us with comfortable shelter in our travels.

If we didn't have our U300, I would not think twice about restoring the coach assuming it could move on it's own power.

Pierce

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #16 – March 10, 2019, 01:11:31 pm

Quote from: Treedom – December 31, 2018, 03:03:35 pm

Is she worth saving? At what cost? Could she be flipped (or enjoyed) or would restoration be a certain money-loser? What to do with her if not?

I spent a lot of my life playing with antique automobiles. We owned and operated the same 1950 Chrysler Windsor for 33 years, I did a frame up restoration on a 1952 XK120 Jaguar for a friend and built box of pieces 1926 Ford speedster for myself. That being said:

>>Is she worth saving?
Probably.
>>At what cost?
Cost? Keep spending until you're finished.
>> Could she be flipped (or enjoyed) . . .
Yes.
>> . . . or would restoration be a certain money-loser?
Yes.
>>What to do with her if not?
And that's the real question. The Foretravels are well designed and the design well executed. They are a limited production specialty vehicle. IMHO a solid Fortravel is worth repairing and using. But as an investment? No.
Art

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #17 – March 11, 2019, 01:13:01 am

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – March 10, 2019, 12:18:38 pm

Sadly, this one is too far gone - I am reminded of the folks who spend $120,000 to fix up a 1973 GMC motorhome, only to hope to get back $40 - $60K after a long sales process.

Unless someone had an emotional connection and limitless funds available there is no economic value in this coach higher than selling the parts off piece by piece (big job, and slow process, you will still be left with a lot to scrap) or getting it (somehow?) to an RV parts scrapyard.

Neglected in Desert sun for so many years - roof is suspect - look at the stain around the air conditioner.

another one bites the dust...wish there could be a different outcome...

Coaches are not an investment, just like boats
cars and other things. Truth be said a house may not be far behind, if you add up the ALL of the costs associated.

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #18 – March 11, 2019, 01:36:54 am

AMEN Old Phart.

What I was trying to say, is that coaches can be somewhat shallow money pits or really big money pits. My point is that usually the "bargain" coaches end up coasting more in $$ and aggravation then the "expensive" coaches - said another way- there are very few bargains out there - a few no doubt, (usually a divorce or death) but usually bargains do not tur out ot be bargains versus buying a average or above average coach.

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #19 – March 11, 2019, 11:29:15 am

Flippers should never think about this coach. This one is for scroungers like me that dream of the RV experience, have done enough research to know better than to buy a cheap SOB and even though they are not journeymen mechanics, they have enough talent and confidence to tackle a neglected coach.

We we got our first larger RV, it had been sitting and it took a while to get everything working. After a lot of work, it gave us years of enjoyment before we bought our Foretravel. I spent zero coach bucks by scrounging everything I needed. Once others in the business realize that you are a scrounger like many of them, you join their inside club and get the good deals. They love to prey on the exec type with the big newer RV and the unlimited cap credit card...and they do.

In RV restoration, you learn about just about all systems so when things fail as they always do, you can either see a problem coming or know how to fix it spending only pocket change in comparison.

I constantly hear about having to put $10,000 aside for repairs when you buy a coach but if you are a true scrounger, you won't have to spend a single coach buck to get it on the road and start having fun. In ten years and thousands of miles, we have spent almost nothing in mandatory items on the U300 with a large percentage of discretionary items scrounged when we wanted to upgrade. Our solar system is ten years old, uses first rate components and is still working as well as it ever has with a more sanitary installation than any professional job I've come across. I paid pennies on the dollar for panels and batteries. Some companies misfortune is your gain. Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace are a good place to start looking or place ads.

Dreamers, go for it!!!

Pierce

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #20 – March 11, 2019, 11:33:34 am

Quote from: ratbug – March 09, 2019, 04:11:48 pm

Man, that thing is dusty on the inside... windows left open? Which it was on the east coast!! I'd love to tackle it.

David

Quote from: Carol Savournin – March 10, 2019, 11:42:48 am

If someone were to take on the enormous amount of work to restore this, you should just give it to them for their cost of having it carried to their location. Tires, batteries, brakes, fuel lines, scrubbed fuel tank, wiring .... You would need that before you could drive it away. You are not gonna get $$$, so you might as well get Karma!

That's what I mean by near-free: it would cost you something to get it towed out of there. It's in rougher shape than I expected.

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #21 – March 11, 2019, 12:19:01 pm

Quote from: Old phart phred – March 11, 2019, 01:13:01 am

Coaches are not an investment, just like boats
cars and other things. Truth be said a house may not be far behind, if you add up the ALL of the costs associated.

Well that quote will bite the dust here in BC. The last 10 years have been a boom to those with a few bucks and bit of foresight.
Houses in the right area here over that time frame may have increased between 200% to many times that and with little updating done. If you bought a home in Vancouver for $20k in the 70s that little house may be worth $2-4 million now.
Yes that is a fairly long time but the %gain far outstrips any other investment I would think, and that little place if right where a high rise is contemplated could easily pull in double that return. Homes away from Vancouver although less cost are still bringing in large returns. A gas station in town that occupies about 3 regular lots sold for $68 mill. Go figure!
JohnH

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #22 – March 11, 2019, 03:42:25 pm

Maybe you could donate it to a worthy cause. And, for a homeless person or family, that coach would be a dream come true.

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #23 – March 12, 2019, 11:16:48 pm

Quote from: bogeygolfer – March 11, 2019, 03:42:25 pm

Maybe you could donate it to a worthy cause. And, for a homeless person or family, that coach would be a dream come true.

Please dont do this...

Cities are becoming overrun with abandoned derelict coaches generously donated to the homeless.

Re: Help me value a rare bird?

Reply #24 – April 16, 2019, 03:39:04 pm

Good news! In case anyone was curious...

Thanks to generous help from vintage RV restoration enthusiast James Holder, an adoptive family was found for Big Bertha. We gifted it to them for free: three generations of gentlemen from a family have come together on this project, helping bring that family together and providing a great opportunity for the youngest. Truck driving is the family business, so they have the skills and knowledge to do what needs to be done. I know I could have parted her out for cash, and for all I know they may end up having to do that, but I feel a lot better knowing that Bertha has a chance to Grace the road again and make another family happy.

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