I recently bought a 2002 coach from Foretravel in Nacogdoches. As you might expect there were several things that needed fixing which they said they would take care of. I had to take the coach back to get these things fixed which is about a 600 mile round trip for me. I picked the coach up and like an idiot I didn't sit there for a day or two checking things out, I took their word for it that they repaired everything. As you might guess they didn't fix everything so I had to take it back again(another 600 miles round trip). This time they did fix everything, but the dash A/C went out again about the time I got home. During all of this I also took the coach to McClain's in Fort Worth to try and save a trip back to Nac. but that didn't come out too good either.
The whole point of this is that each company sent me a customer "satisfaction" form to fill out. In each case I stated the facts as to what happened and my frustration with what happened at each place. McClain immediately called me and ask what they could do to correct the problem, but to this day(about a month) I have yet to hear anything from Foretravel. I know these kinds of things are unpleasant to deal with, but that should be just part of doing business the right way. I wonder if Foretravel only wants to hear about the good things which I told them about also.
I just got back from a long trip and needed a few things done and guess where I took the coach for repair?
Additional Service Threads
http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10911.msg52643#msg52643 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10911.msg52643#msg52643)
http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10551.msg49783#msg49783 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10551.msg49783#msg49783)
Your experience isn't much different than one I had some months ago with FOT. I wrote a letter to the service manager about a phone conversation I had had with one of the service writers. I never heard back from him.
Mike Spitz
2003 U-295
It's interesting how different companies use the "survey" for different purposes. I do recall the ones we've received from FOT have come with envelopes pre-addressed to the "Marketing Department".
WRT your visit to McClain's, we are in the same area and have been pleased with the basic service we have had from Danny's RV in Denton (battery replacement and generator service). We've had the coach annual TXDOT inspection at McClain's in Denton, and were treated well, but have not had service done there.
For fluids, the mobile RV Lube was timely and reasonably priced. Better priced, in fact, than Inland Truck in Denton. http://www.rvmobilelube.com/RV_home.php (http://www.rvmobilelube.com/RV_home.php)
Michelle
Our experience with FoT hasn't been stellar. . .in fact it's been non-existent. Several months ago, we called FoT's service dept. (didn't get a name) asking if there was an aftermarket black tank rinse system that doesn't involve a wand (or the clear backwash fitting on the sewer outlet) and could utilize the faucet behind the toilet. The service person said he didn't know of one; but would call me back one way or another. . .never heard back. More recently, I emailed FoT Service (linked from their website) asking what the cost would be to repair or replace our cracked Corian stovetop cover. I included my phone number. . .no answer to date.
We are now preparing a list of repairs, annual maintenance needs and optional work we would like done when we arrive in Nac in October. We will snail mail it to Fot, Mot and Extreme Graphics, asking for an email reply; we'll see who is hungry or not! :( ::) :P
We suggest caution to anyone thinking of using United RV in Ft. Worth. We had a troubling experience concerning their "Aqua Hot expert" this past January. Drove to MoT to "git 'er done"!
OK, must weigh in here. I have multiple experiences with all three. (I do little maintenance myself, have some ability but absolutely no time.)
Graded From OK to best in my view.
FOT not as hungry as MOT or Extreme great for remodel, OK for service (seemed more expensive than MOT) , stay away for paint, follow ups not so good in my experience, seemed like I had to :hound them to get answers maybe too busy with big $$$ jobs. - Grade OK in my book (Except Mr. Triana of course, who is an amazing gift to the owners!!!!!) Raises the FOT grade to Good by himself......
MOT, great to work with, great FUP, will work with the owner to find ways to save money still suggest you plan to stay in area extra day after pick up from service, I have had experience where I drove to FL after service and stuff wasnt repaired correctly. To their credit, they air shipped parts to me and on one occasion paid for the service call to install. Can stay in coach during service, have a dump in lot, have always had great experiences with Derek and now Mike. Grade Great!
Xtreme know what they do well, also work very well in conjunction with MOT if you have having both work on coach in one visit. I believe they have an apartment for your use if you cant stay in coach. Just amazing work and customer service. Grade Unreal every business should work like this one......
Honorable Mention -Roger Berke, Aqua hot specialist, I havent had him work on mine (YET!!!) but gets amazing reviews. Moderates hydronic heating board on yahoo, travels country in his U-320 attending rallys and fixing aqua hots. Seems like a great guy and those who have used him RAVE about him.
My 2 cents.
Tim Fiedler 2000 U-320 4010
Thanks, Tim. . .most enlightening! ;D :D :P
Roger does great work.
He was able to find my intermittent issue when no one else could.
He has a website where you can download manuals etc and has his schedule.
http://www.rvhydronicheaterrepair.com/ (http://www.rvhydronicheaterrepair.com/)
Thanks Barry. . .I have bookmarked that bad boy!!! ;D :D :P
*DITTO*
Tim,
You are right on the money. Good report.
Here is my take on FoT.
1. We are all better off for them being able to stay in business.
2. The factory obviously does not crave our business. I have also called David in the remodeling department and left a message asking him to get back to me. Never heard from him. Clearly, he does not want my business and frankly I learned a long time ago that when I have to pester someone to take my money I have always regretted it.
3. There are other places that can provide competent service. MOT and Xtreme are two of them. Although we can't always get back to Nac for service. But I have seen here and on other forums service recommendations for facilities in other geographic locations. And I have used a couple with outstanding results.
4. When I owned my own business I would NEVER fail to respond to a customer -- even if we clearly could not provide the service. I just don't get it and neither does FoT. I wish Foretravel no ill will. I am glad this forum is not beholding to them.
The factory is 'new sales' centric. Although they have moved to aggressively expand and defend their service and renovation divisions its been painfully obvious that customer service is not at their forefront - especially for older coaches. As their upper management has displayed a profoundly negative interest in being bothered with such mundane and trivial matters, lower level personnel know they won't get backed up when it comes time to make things right. In their case ignoring it does indeed make it go away... Their volume overall remains high in spite of mediocre customer service as their work quality still tends to be high for service and renovation.
MOT will freely admit that email for sales AND service is NOT their primary OR preferred method of communication. You need to get them on the phone. But they are 'sales owned and managed', top middle a bottom. Although their volume is high its because of their personalized service and renovation work.
Extreme only works a couple of jobs at a time, with maybe 10 or less in the pipeline. Its easy (and critical!) to provide a high level of customer service at that volume.
Could not agree more, MOT is fantastic.....bought mine from them and have been back for service. In the Houston area we have had great luck with Birdland Coach Service as well.
I too have used all three companies. I can not say enough good things about Xtreme. James and Jennifer run a great operation and he has spent a lot of time and effort figuring out how to make our coaches more usable.
MOT did most of my remodel on this current coach. I was their first remodel that they did soup to nuts. I will say that if they do nto get it right the first time they will make it right by you.
Now to FOT. This is a love hate relationship. THey had a great factory service once but as mentioned above they do not really want to service our older coaches. I got a survey for a service visit I had and when we returned it with the true events of the visit, it developed into a pissing match with Lyle. In the end he said you are right and we have to do better.
Corey Rucker helped that shop out and made some major improvements but they are back to issues again.
I had friends there who had an issue and they told Alden not to "rig it" when they fix it this time. He was upset that they would think that. SO they showed him the last few repairs. I will say that Alden was upset and made them right and that does speak volumes about his character and some of the older shop employees.
In order of service and getting it right the first time and hassle free service visits, I would rank them as Xtreme then MOT then FOT. You could go toe Encore too as Keith Reich is there and he does a great job so that is another place that may be an option for your service needs.
It makes one wonder. . .do any of the above mentioned businesses monitor this and other forums for customer discussions among ourselves; a much better marketing tool than a formal "customer survey". If I had a business, I would have a person (receptionist maybe) stay on top of forum topics that involve the companies we customers use. Information is power; and, in this shaky economy, I would want to know exactly what my company is doing right or wrong; and, what is my competition doing that makes my piece of the consumer pie smaller than it should be. It seems to be a no brainer. Maybe James and Jennifer do read the forums.
I can't say about this forum, James from Xtreme always watched the Yahoo forum as did MOT, I actually think MOT doesn't have anyone "assigned" to this forum as of today.
I am with you on this. Unfortunately a "noisy few" can make a big issue out of a minor problem on this type of forum, but even if that were occurring I would want to know that it was in play.
MOT was burned with comments on the web a while back re FOT, and may be a little cautious based on legal advice regarding forum participation.
Tim Fiedler 2000 U-320 4010
I would think MoT et. al. would only need to "read and weed" (weed out any flaming posts) to see the issues; but, not post any responses, thus averting legal or adversarial stuff. It's all about creative listening to assist in fine tuning their priorities and company policies. ;D :D :P
Probaby they do not monitor all the possible groups and soures of customer input. I have a few businesses and to be honest, we can barely keep our Twitter, facebook info and and our web advertising up to date. It starts to become a monumental task to maintain all the data sources that could mention you. I would like to think they (every company) read every Post positive or negative. But unless it's a discussion board on a company website I don't think so. Most companies thougn are like apple and delete a large portion of the post on their forums that depict poor service.
Greg 1995 280 se
Steve and I are not aware of any official followers of the ForeForum boards from any of the Nac-based facilities (or any others for that matter).
Michelle
I have a little bit different take on this discussion. Like most of us, I've had work done at Xtreme, MOT, and FOT as well.
Without question, James and Jennifer at Xtreme are a pleasure to deal with. They sincerely appreciate having us as a customer and it shows. But the work they offer is not mechanical/electrical in nature and so to have a discussion about mechanical/electrical issues, the bulk of the discussion needs to be focused on MOT vs FOT. I think most of would agree.
For the record, I bought my coach at MOT and have had it serviced "mostly" at MOT, but my last experience with them was not a positive one. It was last year, and I was having problems with retarder and the way it interacts with the cruise control. We were on our way back home from an extended outing, and since we live only 5 hours away from Nacogdoches, we were able to drop off the coach with them for two weeks with a list of things that needed to be fixed... the major issue was the retarder/cruise. When I went back to pick up the coach after they had it for two weeks, it was clear that they had spent precious little time on the coach, and were rushing around at the last minute. It was not fixed! So I ended up driving all the way back home WITHOUT the coach.
A week later, I returned to pick up the coach, and it had been worked on, but the issue had not been resolved. Granted, it was one of those intermittent electronic problems that can be hard to diagnose, but after three weeks of having our coach on location, they really had not spent the necessary time on it that it needed to be fixed. So I left there with our coach which had NOT been fixed after them having it a full three weeks.
Most recently, I took the coach to FOT to try to get this problem resolved. I agree with some of the comments from above, that FOT may not as "interested" in working on some of the older coaches as we would hope, but it was FOT that got my hard-to-find problem resolved... and not MOT.
My point is simply this: It's not always an easy call on where to bring our coaches for repair. Some issues are best suited for MOT. Some are best suited for FOT. But again, knowing company might be best for a particular problem is not always easy to know in advance.
Just my two cents.
.
Russell,
Could I ask what the problem was with your retarder / cruise control? I am having a minor, though irritating, problem with my retarder and if your problem was similar my next question will be what the fix was.
Thanks!
Paul
36' 2000 U320
I think they are both kind of related and hard to separate. The original post that started this topic discussed both issues.
I guess I'm the odd duck here. I've never been to MOT for service. I started with FT for service after buying my coach in 2006 and have been consistently happy with their customer service, both for renovations and repairs. Xtreme has been very pleasant to deal with as well.
I used the factory for years too. I should have tried MOT sooner....is my lesson.
All good input. All companies are going to have bad days and not get something fixed right, but my main point in the original post was FOT doesn't seem to care. I am not sure why they send out a customer satisfaction survey if they are not going to follow up on problem areas. Maybe they just want to hear the praises and not the problems. They can put the good stuff in their adds as customer quotes. There are not that many Foretravel coaches out there, it looks like they would want to keep all the business they can, but then what do I know. Maybe they had just as soon not deal with repairs and only do sales.
I want to insert my 2 cents worth in this slam/praise column. I have had lots of experience with FOT, MOT (bought my current coach), FOTN (now TN RV)(bought 3 previous coaches) and some experience with Stallings and Parliament, F of Florida and F of Calif. I have had courteous, expedient, thorough and competent service at all of these. Of course there have been some delays but nothing to complain about. I am convinced that these results are at least in part due to the fact that since I am retired, I can STAY WITH THE COACH while work is being done.
FYI-I just got a call from Cory, service manager at FOT. They had read the post here and apologized for not getting back to me about my customer satisfaction survey. We had a good talk and he admitted they screwed up. I have to admit from a likability stand point they are nice people especially the sales department(we dealt with Tyle and Judy who are top notch). I have been in business for myself for forty years and things have changed so much from when I started that's it's not even funny. In the old days if you neglected to satisfy a customer you just had a problem with that customer, but today with the internet things like this can spread like wild fire and ruin you in a hurry.
I used Encore to check out our coach when buying it last year. When traveling these past few weeks I called Encore with a problem I was having. Not only did they remember who I was & the coach I have, but Keith called me back (he was busy when I called) as soon as he could. I had already resolved the problem but I sure appreciated him calling me back to help in a timely manner.
I am happy Cory called you. He is a huge addition to FOT service. Everyone can have issues with any company but Cory has always been proactive. I respect him and do understand the bind he gets into at times.
I think FOT would learn more reading here than sending out lots of surveys, but both have their place. Tyle is a fine person and I consider him a friend. You will not find a person more knowledgable or upfront with you in the whole sales transaction than Tyle. The great part is that he does not forget you after the sale either.
I would go so far as to say if FT could get their service and remodel running better they could be a huge force in the market.
I have not owned a Newell but in talking with the owners I have met their service is second to none.
Mot has service that could also be in that category too.
I am impressed with FOT sales operation though. There website and salesnguys are very good. If we could combine then best of MOT and FOT we would be back to what it was like prior to the new ownership.
Interesting ugh that all the sales guys with the exception of Paul Tinkle all started selling at MOT.
A little known fact about these "customer survey" programs going on right now is that just about every business is in on this act. Why? Any business that has a presence on the World Wide Web has known or is certainly finding out that they have to jump thru new hoops in order to be "found." It used to be if your business was in the top 30 you were considered to be "right there." That later changed to being in the top 10. Now it's in the TOP 5, cause people don't scroll down a list. Most people are now using the web rather than the phone book to find information about a business, including location and phone number.
How can a business be in the TOP 5 on all three of the major search engines? They can pay big bucks with banner ads or "Pay-by-Click" (nuisance ads), or they can jump on the band wagon with the latest craze that the Search Engine Algorithm has come up with like a "blog" or "response from the corporations CEO" or "testimonials from happy customers" (aka Customer Survey).
So here's the bottom line, if you send in a negative response on that Customer Survey, 99 out of 100 times, you will be wasting your time. The company is looking for that 1 out of 100 or 1 in a million--perfect "testimonial" to add to their website in order to improve its ranking with the Search Engines on the WWW. It is quite likely there will be something NEW that the Search Engines will come up with and a few years later, these "Customer Surveys" will become history, just like the CEO postings & videos.
I've been designing websites since 1999 and within the last two years become heavily involved with SEO (Search Engine Optimization)
Keith is to Foretravel coaches as Roger Berke is to Aqua-Hot. One in a million.
I find all of this very encouraging.
--
George & Sandy & Trixie Lost in America in a 40' Foretravel aka "Moose" Follow our adventures at
http://sangeo-travels.blogspot.com/ (http://sangeo-travels.blogspot.com/)
Finally we left NAC and Camp FOT this last Thursday, bitter/sweet as we really like the area and are talking of returning to look for a home base - Have nothing but praises for FOT and how they kept stepping to the plate to get our 11 year old gal in top running condition.
I'll have to disagree with comments on FOT not wanting to service and/or sell older coaches - saw many older coaches going into the service bays daily - sales of older coaches too - they have been selling coaches like crazy and I had the honor to meet several of the new owners of both new and older coaches. Never heard anything negative from others at camp FOT whether service or buying, but I am a very happy optimist ;D
After our initial in bay service it was agreed between myself and service that my coach would be worked in for other things we found or needed, this had a lot to do with our being at Camp FOT longer but it also helped me to get to know this coach very well too. Personally the service team went above and beyond in my opinion for our needs. I don't feel this was any special treatment at all, I made every effort to wait and work with them, as well as thank them on a personal level for being kind/helpful. Coaches would be stacked up at the service bays, yet they would find a spot and resolve things and/or install along with showing me what was going on - couple of the guys took the little extra time to answer/explain how things worked - I'm sure they also got good laughs out of my floundering and sometimes rather simple questions, but they were/are great IMHO - respect and appreciation goes a very long way!
We also stayed inside our coach during it being serviced, never were we asked to leave it and go to the customer lounge.
Even after I declared we were leaving on a Friday about maybe 4 weeks ago to only find oil leaking from back side of generator Jeromy called me back on Saturday morning to decide we were staying and they quickly got us in first part of week to find the oil pressure screw in thing was leaking, it was replaced first part of that week before my head could stop spinning.
Then this week on Wednesday we were pulling out with tow car to take it down to meet the other FT owner's who were buying it from us and I discovered no electrical power from the generator - this was not a happy moment and the guys in the shop actually saw a very unhappy me!!! - They were slammed, it was extremely hot and just not a good day all around with things YET they got me into Wayne and it was a wire that was burned due to loose connection - fixed, hooked tow car back up and we were only 1/2 hour behind schedule to meet the couple down in Cleveland, TX - I call that Fantastic service with all that was going on around that big operation.
I also had work relations with Kieth Riesch, he inspected this coach for me as well as did service work on my other coach - Kieth is wonderful and the folks at Encore are great - Had the opportunity to meet some of the staff at MOT, very professional -
IMHO from my long tale - It is what one wants to make of it - These other places here in NAC all spun off of FOT in some fashion, yet FOT knows each of the coaches they build - I liked having my service at FOT because it was born there and many of the fellows who I met had some part in my coaches whole existence and will in it's future
All in my humble opinion :) - NO I'm not on the payroll, am only a very happy FT owner :P
Interesting note, as we also noticed our survey letter from FOT was from Lyle Reed, but the return envelope went back to the service department. So, we addressed our own envelope and sent our not-happy survey, quite itemized and long, back to Lyle. This was 3 years ago. The response letters came by email quickly but noted we were to blame for each item mentioned. Then it got ugly.
My favorite part was John's face when he read where Lyle called him cheap after we paid $9,000 to replace our Aqua Hot.
Seems odd to send a negative review to the guy it was about, so we did not.
Since that time, if we have issues or praise, we pick up the phone.