Most of you are aware that I have been vocal in my opinions about actions taken by the MC at the last Grandvention, as a result I refused to pay my MC dues and dropped out.
I still have the same negative outlook about the MC in general... However ... After discussion with several MC members who I respect and trust I have rejoined it. The rationale I am using goes along with that of some others, I cannot influence or do anything about the actions of the MC if I am not a member, so with this in mind I rejoined and will in the future do what I can to change the current Corporate controlled mindset of the MC. I may not be successful by myself but perhaps all of us working to gether can turn the MC into a true OWNERS club instead of a FT Corporate spokesman.
There is not reply needed to this rant, I just wanted opthers to know my outlook on the situation and YES I will take my crow with dressing on the side, well done.
Gary B
While it was sad to cancel it, the cost of running it at a loss would have been higher. There were so many people who dropped out at the end that there was no choice. There is a cost to scouting a Motorcade and to running one. They are not a profit center but rather try to break even. FT has cut support so the Club must be self sufficient. It is a great tool and owner benefit and I have made and met a lot of FT owners because of it. I like it better than FMCA as the owners are similar and we have a great time when we are together.
I can't agree more.
On those long trips, I got to learning a lot about my coach.
Lots of expertise from the owners to draw from.
Having the tech on board for the trip was an added benefit & I learned quite a bit from them watching them do repairs.
I know we have access to James Triana's Technical advice for free no matter how old the coach is or even if we are not members.
But I wonder how difficult getting technical help would be if he was not available anymore.
So I look at the dues as my small contribution to say thanks for having him available for which he has saved me so much more.
And the 10% discount I just got when ordering a Foretravel specific part was nice. And also the fact that they still have the said part available for a '94 model year! Saved me $7.50. May not seem like much, but it all adds up.
But I do understand where Gary is coming from.
I am with the "Glad to have the MC" Has saved me more than the dues in windshield replacement alone.
To each his own, we all have reasons for everything we do, sometimes from experience, sometimes from a feeling, sometimes we are right and other times we are wrong.
As the saying goes it's a "Crap Shoot" so good luck.
Cheers
Dave
I agree that the MC is a worthwhile organization and we are glad to support it. The discounts at FOT alone pay for the membership. We have not joined a motorcade as yet, but plan to in the future. I think if they were able to publish the cost of each motorcade farther in advance (i.e., at least 6 months ahead) they might have more participation. Even publishing the cost of the last motorcade for a given destination would be better than nothing. Inviting participation from owners of SOB motorhomes seems like a good idea too.
I asked about that one time & Beverly said that they don't know what the cost will be until they know how many are actually going & then they can get final numbers from the campgrounds, tour company's, restaurants etc.
They usually give the prices about 90 days ahead to the ones who have signed up.
Joining the Motorcade Club has lots of advantages even if you don't plan to go on a long motorcade. The shorter events including chapter rallies, FMCA pre-rallies and the Grandvention are great activities to attend. At the chapter rallies, you have a chance to meet and get to know wonderful people with whom you have a lot in common. If your chapter has a friends rally, you can bring friends with an SOB and introduce them to Foretravel. It's nice to arrive early at a site and/or stay longer and explore the area. Also, you are welcome at any chapter rally in the country.
The pre-rallies have the same attraction as chapter rallies and, in addition to the fun, you have an opportunity to caravan with other Foretravels. If you've never traveled through a small town and then onto an interstate in a caravan with 100 or so other coaches, you don't know what you're missing. And the Grandvention is just grand!!
If you'd like to follow some chapter happenings and see lots of rally photos, our North Atlantic Chapter has a group on Facebook and you are welcome to join. Just go to the group page 'North Atlantic Chapter - Foretravel Motorcade Club' and become a member.
Marlene W.
2000 U320
Steve and I have struggled both with the unknown about the cost and then, unfortunately, with the final cost per day of MC events. We just talked about it, because we'd like to participate and support the club more. Our only event to date was the TMS Grandvention.
I wonder how much of the $100-200 per day is the cost of meals, and if there might be an opportunity for "tiered" pricing, for those of us who prefer not to eat out/like to do our own meals. Perhaps even just a couple of options - MC inclusive, and MC, lunch on tour days only or meals on your own. If the delta were significant enough, it might make the MC events more attractive to our travel style. The Grandvention certainly offered significantly more (and larger) meals than we normally partake of.
Michelle
I too think that food is a large expense for the MC on these type events. I'm also thinking that the tech's cost as well as the fuel, etc. for the caravan leader(s) is a club expense. These items alone racks up the costs.
From what I understand, it is the bus that takes you to the various venues to tour. THe Club has used a tour bus and that is why you need so many people so that you can mostly fill a bus. Also, there is scouting and pre-running expenses as well as the tech who goes along and the director too. The previous posts on the pre-rallys and the chapter events are spot on too.
This discussion is very interesting. I didn't realize that most of the meals were as a group. That is fine for some meals, but one reason we bought a motor home is that it allows us to "eat at home" while traveling.
Does one take a "toad" on these motorcades? If so, what is the need for a bus? Seems like a lot of extra expense.
I like the idea of traveling together in an organized way and with a mechanic, but I'd rather have a more independent approach to group travel. Do the Good Sam motorcades (and others) have the same approach?
Most people take a toad.
They hire buses to tour around locations and it would be difficult to have everyone driving their cars.
Sometimes if the attraction is fairly close they do use their cars.
Even though you paid for everything, you do not have to go to everything or go out to eat if you prefer not to.
They do not caravan the coaches to each destination.
They give you good directions and a time to be there at the drivers meeting each nite so you can travel at your leisure.
The Technician leaves last so in case anyone breaks down they will be in front of him.
Everything is very well planned and they try to fit a lot of things to see.
Membership discount just saved us about $800 on repairs from our visit to the mothership last week... paid for itself many times over, so if for nothing else, membership is worth it. We too, have wondered about the cost of a motorcade or at least a close estimate. Being new members, we don't have a reference point.
While we like the occasional group meals for events in the evening or a brunch, we prefer to eat in the coach - I like Michelle's idea on the tiered approach to MC's...
In almost 15 years as a member I have never spent enough to recoup fees, also I have never used the shop in NAC, there are too many other places that can do the same work at better prices.
The only use I have for The MC is the friendship of other members at local rallies.
This is an interesting thread. What is the cost of membership to the MC?
Membership dues are $80. Here's a link for more info.
http://www.foretravel.com/motorcade/index.php (http://www.foretravel.com/motorcade/index.php)
If you buy a new or used Foretravel they will give you a one year membership in the club for free.
No matter where you bought it.
I believe that your "free" membership expires at the end of the calendar year regardless of when you sign on.
Yup... the clubs fiscal year runs from January to December.
Why are there only 1000 Motorcaders with over 6500 Foretravels and almost 1100 Foreforum members?
Why does only one out of six Foretravel Owners choose to remain a Motorcader? I say "choosse to remain a member because everyone who purchases a Foretravel for the first time is given a motorcade membership for the remainder of the year.
There has been about 17,000 Motorcade memberships, which means there has been almost 3 owners for each Foretravel and yet there are only 1000 Motorcaders.
Is there a list showing the number of Motorcaders over the years, and/or a Motorcade Club history?
They lost a LOT of members when they raised dues dramatically a few years back. Most of the events are/were pretty expensive. There were some devious things going on under the time of Fore ownership too. Of course when you are a privately owned company you can pretty much do anything you want...
Wyatt, I can not address how many do or do not and or why they do or do not join the motorcader club,I can only respond to my reasons for keeping my membership up to date.
Discounts on Foretravel items and services more than pays for the annual dues.
Simple math if for no other reason.
You gotta do what fits your head and pocketbook, I feel if you are using your Foretravel, you will gain a lot, heck just the savings on a windshield half, more than pays for the dues alone.
FWIW
Motorcade, unlike other Owners groups is owned and controlled by Corp FT, Individual FT owners have little or no input into the activities of the club. I keep hoping that at some point the MC could be converted into a true owners group along the lines of an FMCA Chapter, but as long as FT controls the MC AND the Foretravel International FMCA chapter it ain't gonna happen.
It's a no-brainer to us and the annual cost is irrelevant in the big picture of owning a motorhome.
We thoroughly enjoy the camaraderie of meeting and participating with fellow Motorcaders at the various Chapter Events, the Grandvention, and other events.
Agree with Harvey, mark us down as BE a Motorcader
Does your $85 for dues also include FMCA? Afraid I already know the answer to that question. And is MC and the Foretravel International FMCA Chapter two different organizations?
What Jeff S. said. . . ;D :)) :P ..........................which way did he go?????????
Its not the dues that drove me away. It was the actions of management. For example throwing the previous owners of your own coach out of the Motorcade club, along with anyone else that could or would do repairs on an RV.
Jeff,
You probably are not aware that Foretravel management railroaded James Stallings of Xtreme Paint & Graphics out of the Motorcade Club because they did not want any competition? I find it hard to support that kind of small-mindedness.
There are other reasons to not belong to the Motorcade Club. Our reason is that it just does not fit in with our travel plans and lifestyle.
I quit the MC because of the actions of the board in throwing out a member at Memphis Grandvention. James was thrown out but other commercial members still are MC members... DUH. Can you spell discrimination ?
I did later rejoin BUT for only one reason. I enjoy the friendship of other owners and I enjoy going to local area rallies. Without being a member I am excluded from these rallies even though non owners can attend . Some system ?
Actually, I think it was Little Rock. But anyway, current management have proven themselves as elitist vindictive bullies at every opportunity.
I can't support or condone their actions. I would rather see the company fail than see them thrive.
And the reason they gave was?
But it doesn't appear to have hurt James Stallings on at least one score. James T at MOT also has a stellar reputation, but I doubt, as a company, MOT enjoys a reputation as fine as Xtreme does, and deserves.
___
best, paul
"Thriving not surviving" <(*¿*)>
Some once thought a million chimps would in time type great old works of literature
Now that we have the Internet we know that not to be true.......
Well, I am a little bit qualified to weigh in here, having spent three hours last Saturday with Mr. Dane Miller, Greg Amys, Lyle Reed, and their delightful spouses at Texas Motor Speedway.
Mr. Dane Miller is a smart, sincere and genuine individual who has invested significant (many millions) keeping Foretravel afloat since he took it over. Thankfully he had many millions to invest, having done very well in Indiana at a little company he founded called Biomed.
I think Mr. Miller has a love of the Foretravel Brand, and like any businessman his first priority is to break even as a company. Much progress has been made there, but to a certain degree that progress came at the expense of competing with James Stallings, MOT, Encore and others. Greg Amys and Lyle Reed are simply trying to created a profitable business model for Mr. Miller, and as many airlines have found out in the deregulated environment, you can't lose money on every sale and make it up with volume.
Having also just taken advantage of Xtreme and MOT's excellent shops, I can attest that both the shops were operating at or above capacity. It would seem that the exclusion from Motorcade and other issues over the years at MOT have done nothing to impact the business models of these two fine firms. In a way, the actions of FOT may have led to a healthy diversification for MOT and Xtreme that is actually beneficial to their long term growth. (MOT's foray into Country Coach notwithstanding...)
I am shocked at folks who take Foretravel to task on this board, but have no problem calling up James Triana for free technical advice. Mr. Miller, Greg, and Lyle are the reason all the folks at Foretravel (including James) still have jobs. Both the employees and owners should be very thankful for the efforts of the investors and management team. Our coaches value is enhanced by the existence of Foretravel, (if you don't believe that chart the value of used Country Coaches before and after the bankruptcy) the availability of small parts that are not readily available in the aftermarket, and the technical support available from the factory, especially Mr. Triana.
As for me, I like getting the glossy pictures on the cover of Motorcader that I may own 10 years down the road. Put me on the side of the camp that says the $80 per year (even if I didn't get that back every year in my 10% parts discount) is a small price to pay in support of the brand and the Foretravel business model. Those of you with nineties vintage coaches can avail yourself of the Foretravel support, and yet you represent a very small revenue opportunity to Foretravel, except perhaps as a trade up customer.
If I was foretravel, I would consider having two levels of Motorcade membership. Base and Premium. If you buy the premium level, you get access to James Triana, without it you get the magazine and the rallies.
OK, before the flaming of Fiedler begins, let's remember that we are all family here, and like all families we don't have to agree on everything to love each other.
There may be a point that is being missed. . .
Foretravel is working very hard to stay in a profitable position. Others own the company. It is their money and risk. They make a lot of decisions that we don't understand and we may not like. We and our friends may even get hurt by Foretravel choices, but they have the big picture. Foretravel management makes mistakes, but if they did nothing, there would be no growth.
The point that I am referring to is that by Foretravel being in business, we all benefit. We are all better off than our Country Coach friends.
We gain a lot by having Foretravel being around. James Triana is just one of many. Being sure we find all the 'mistakes' Foretravel has made without taking equal time to point out all the good things, is talking about a small part of the big picture and does not help us.
Motorcade Club membership is optional. How does it help to continue year after year to find the same reasons to justify a personal choice?
Spending $75 each year could help in more ways than we could imagine. We like our motorhomes, but the Fore's could not keep the company financially sound. The group that rescued us from early demise deserves our support.
Hey Tim,
Great and well balanced dissertation. I do want Foretravel to succeed, but don't like and don't believe it was necessary to cut James Stallings of Xtreme Paint & Graphics out of the club. But, the owners and managers were doing what they thought they needed to do to make Foretravel survive.
Our reasons for not belonging to the Motorcade Club have nothing to do with ownership or management decisions. Belonging to the Motorcade Club just does not fit what we do. I also agree with your observation about getting free advice from James Triana. You did not mention those that avail themselves of Camp Foretravel and don't spend so much as a dollar on parts.
My issue is not with Foretravel, its with their management. So we should support ANYTHING NECESSARY to make a company survive? Not in my world. Bad behavior is NEVER justifiable.
I believe that the MC adds value to the company as does James T's competency in knowing how to solve issues presented to him each and every day on every coach ever made. Imagine the continuing education James has to undergo to be familiar with every new very high tech coach coming out the door.
If I had the funds & time available, I would participate in MC events. There's nothing better than to be around a group of similar thinking folks along with the technical support available during MC events (I believe this is right?). The fees for the events seem on the fair to high side, and the MC membership fee is just right.
We should all be thankful that the new owners & management are continuing to forge ahead with a new model in the lineup that hopefully will make an impact on this very elite market segment. I believe that the lineup improvement alone if successful will benefit every Foretravel owner. I may wish that Foretravel made lower priced coaches so I could afford an upgrade in the future, but if that's not in the cards...so be it. It's their capital to invest and not for me to decide.
From my own specific personal perspective, and without going into details, I don't care whether or not MOT survives. I don't wish them ill, either.
I am glad they made the two fine Foretravels I've owned.
___
best, paul
"Thriving not surviving" <(*¿*)>
Some once thought a million chimps would in time type great old works of literature
Now that we have the Internet we know that not to be true.......
Paul,
MOT is the dealer down the road. FOT (the factory) made your two fine Foretravels.
Tim,
Well said.....................from a business bottom line perspective. BUT, unfortunately and realistically, successful business perspectives can still fail if they are unpopular and create disloyalty amongst the public that they serve. Long term business survival depends on achieving a BETTER OVERALL balance than your competition is able to achieve (between the business bottom line and your business customer satisfaction) .
For those of us that have been enamored with and loyal to the Foretravel brand and the Motorcade Club over many years, some going on decades, I believe what most of us have experienced is a shift in the FORETRAVEL CORE VALUES AND WORK ETHIC balance away from customer satisfaction and toward the bottom line.
Your proposed James Triana /BASE and PREMIUM cash flow example is exemplary of this shift. I can just hear the FOT ownership/management explaining these increases to the bottom line.
BUT, it used to be that the support of EVERY Foretravel customer was treated as vital to the business model success of the company, regardless of how large or small a customer might be. Now that doesn't mean that you "give away the farm" to every customer over every little whim. It just means that you make every customer relationship very important, at least in the customer's eyes and from the customers' perspective.
Now speaking for my wife and myself only, we have been made to feel like the most important customers in the world (by Xtreme Paint and Graphics and by Motorhomes of Texas and other competitord) on a number of occasions in the past few years while simultaneously (bidding for parts, shop time and line item prices at FOT on exactly the same work) we have been made to feel like a pain in the butt (and, unsaid but still felt, please go away until you have a newer coach that is more in line with our current business model).
The first few times, we thought that it was just us or we (or they) were just having a bad day, because we had had many years of very satisfactory FOT Nac experience. Eventually we came to believe that it is just a strong, ongoing shift in the FORETRAVEL CORE VALUES AND WORK ETHIC balance away from customer satisfaction and toward the bottom line. As many others have pointed out, that's not at all bad and it needed to happen.
And, all of this doesn't mean that we are not and will not remain strong, vocal advocates and promoters of the Foretravel Brand and the Motorcade Club. I wish that I had a dollar to show for every SOB I've sent to Nac.
But it does mean that, as a FOT executive, I'd strongly consider what other executives from industry, and my customers are telling me and seriously consider, FROM THE CUSTOMER'S PERSPECTIVE, how far the pendulum has swung to the bottom line side of the spectrum, . The customers can be and have been, for Foretravel, the company's strongest sales force. Treating them in secular fashion, depending upon how much current worth they have to your bottom line is, perhaps shortsighted.
IMHO,
Neal
Yes, thank you, George,
I mis-spoke (mis-wrote ;o). I meant FOT not MOT.
My apologies to the fine firm (from personal experience) I referred to as MOT aka MotorHomes of Texas .
___
best, paul
"Thriving not surviving" <(*¿*)>
Some once thought a million chimps would in time type great old works of literature
Now that we have the Internet we know that not to be true.......
I started this "2 B or NOT 2 B Motorcader" Thread
Thank you all for this lively, informative discussion.
I have decided to continue being a Motorcader for 2011 and 2012.
I am puzzled that Jeff Savournin's input shown below does not appear when I look at this thread. I know that others have seen Jeff's input because they have reponded to it, which was puzzling to me because it has never appeared for me.
"Anything I can do to help our corporate parent to be more successful I will do...Come on, you spend $400 for a fuel fill up and complain about dues? Get a freak in life. We happen to be at the ladies driving school this week and the camaraderie alone is worth the dues...get with the program or quit complaining....so tired of listing to crap from nitwits that are so shortsighted they can't see how great we have it.....Sorry for the rant...."
I will just pipe up here and say that we have been in the parking lot at FOT for about a month ... with a week out to camp in the country and several days in a row parked at Xtreme Graphics. We had work done at FOT on our '93 U225 getting it ready for the new owners. The new owners of our '93 had work done at FOT and were happily enrolled as Morotcade members. We had work done on our "new" '95 coach at MOT. We had work done on our "new" coach at Xtreme. We had work done on our "new" coach at Foretravel ... and they know it VERY well, as it used to belong to James Stallings(gasp!) and has a VERY distinctive paint job. Foretravel was very happy to write up any job that we needed done on either of our coaches. MOT was happy to write up work on either coach. I can't figure out why any Foretravel owner would think that the age of their rig would make Foretravel reluctant to take them on as a customer ... or that Foretravel turns their noses up at any owner of an OLD coach. There are "newbie" owners here right now ... '92 and '95 coaches, respectively ... and they are both having work done and getting lots of help from the Factory in learning the systems in their coaches. Both wives are taking part in the Ladies' Driving School. EVERY new owner is delighted with their treatment. If you are getting the "cold shoulder" from someone here at the factory, I have to suspect that it is because they have learned that you are a PITA. I will also add that I think James Stallings is a great guy. When he was booted out of the Motorcade Club (and I certainly don't know who was responsible or how exactly it was done) because he was a "competitor" of Foretravel's paint shop, it seems as though it was a petty and stupid move. I also get the idea that it was very poorly handled by management. But I will tell you that James has had the best possible revenge, if he needed it ... because he is doing very well, thank you, at Xtreme Graphics. He does NOT need me to go to bat for him or get my panties in a twist and berate FOT publicly on his behalf. There are certain individuals at FOT that I will never get warm and fuzzy thinking of ... but I am always going to be a Motorcade Club member. It makes sense financially because of the discount at the Factory and I do go to an event once in a blue moon. My local chapter was fun ... we went to 2 events in 3 years. I have been to ONE Grandvention and now the Driving School (GREAT thing, ladies!). We love coming to Nacogdoches and we have errands at FOT, MOT, Encore and Xtreme almost every time. They are ALL part of what it takes to keep my "home" running smoothly and comfortably. They all seem happy to see me, and I am going to spread my loyalty to all of them. I am now done ... I thank you. :-*
P.S. Jeff took his own entry off the thread because he thought he sounded too grumpy and irritated. All that remains is the "quote".
Dave, I think the world of you, and consider you a friend, but on this topic we disagree.
Tim, I fully agree with your points, and I also get a kick out of the negative positions.
People who are NOT willing to support their favorite sport (FT) are the ones who cry the loudest when they (FT) fold. Just goes to show some people are never happy no matter how the cookie crumbles.
As in "There are no free lunches" .
For me, I want to get in the 195 and zoom into the blue younder. :))
Let me try and put a positive tack on this.
I'd miss the resource this forum offers if it passed much more than
FT's passing.
As to:
People who are NOT willing to support their favorite sport (FT)
We tried a rally of motorhome owners once. Enjoyed it a lot, and strongly contributed to it it, but decided it's not our cup of tea. Others do enjoy it, fine. I hope they continue to do so.
We tried a 42 day motorhome caravan once. Enjoyed it, but decided caravans are not our cup of tea. Made close friends on it, and enjoy meeting up with them whenever our paths come close. For those who do enjoy caravans, I hope they continue to do so.
As always, YMMV.....
___
best, paul
"Thriving not surviving" <(*¿*)>
Some once thought a million chimps would in time type great old works of literature
Now that we have the Internet we know that not to be true.......
I heartily agree. This forum provides information and friendship. It has grown far more than the Yahoo group in a very short time. I have no problem supporting Foretravel as a brand. I heartily recommend them to anyone who will listen. I wear my Foretravel shirts proudly and often. The passing of the company (which I do NOT expect to happen) would not bother me in the slightest - except that a lot of good people would suffer.
But I won't suffer a bully, either...
I would add one more thing to this discussion. The MC club is a wonderful way to meet owners in the local rallies too. I have made great friends and have learn much more about my coach and how it runs by going to my local chapter rally. In fact I belong to two chapters and have learned at both of them. The annual fee is not an issue for me because I do get value from the club. I use MOT for my service rather the FOT as my experience with both of them said I had a better customer experience at MOT. Do I want Foretravel to stay in business, yes. Do I belong to the Motorcade club yes will I continue, yes. I no longer get the MC discount at MOT but I bought a coach there so I get the same 10 percent off anyway. If you think about it MOT and Xtreme were the FT we used to know as they all worked there. THe new owners are different but they are putting the money in. At the grandvention they indicated that the corporate support for the MC club would be greatly reduced and that they did not want to lose money on trips. In fact it may morph into local and national rallies and a lot fewer trips. It wil lbe interesting to see the outcome.
This forum, annual trips to Nac for service and our MC membership are what keeps me connected to the extended FT family.
We've attended one Grandvention and one event, the Houston Rodeo. I wouldn't call either event a homerun but I'm glad we went... as long as we own a FT we'll be MC members.