I've determined that mine is bad, water comes out at the air valve. What is the best fix, or is it even worth bothering with?
Take a look at this previous message thread. It might help answer your question.
http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=3483.msg12823#msg12823 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=3483.msg12823#msg12823)
Thanks Barry, I'll look into the Shurflow 5.7 pump (http://www.amazon.com/SHURflo-5900-0211-Extreme-Smart-Sensor/dp/B000BGM326/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1284950865&sr=8-2-spell) a bit more. Reviews on Amazon indicate some problems with them, 3 of 5 reviewers gave them a 1, and 2 gave it a 4, but based on only 5 reviews I'll check further.
Since your pressure tank has been leaking, it has not been assisting your pump, like originally designed.
The big blue accumulator air tank only helps reduce low flow pump pulsing, and you probably have gotten used to any pulsing so why change your current water pump now?
Some have found it difficult to remove original pumps.
And found it easier to add a 2nd water pump by plumbiing it from the fresh water drain ball valve, to the accumulator hose.
A 2-way switch can be used to use one pump or the other.
Yeah, it's not really a problem. Just came up on the to do list. I'll probably move it on down the list farther. I wanted to get the outside hand wash set up fixed so it made some sense to do them both. My pump is readily assessable, so won't discard the idea of replacing it.
I am on my third shurflow variable pump under warranty. Hopefuly this most recent will be the last. I did install a second pump and if one fails. I just switch the hot wire [spade connector] and turn one valve off and the other on to switch pumps. I have room since removing the accumulator tank.
I am also on my 3rd one under warranty also.
I had no trouble exchanging them over the counter at any camping world.
I have no issues with a "regular" water pump and the accumulator. Check it for proper PSI annually of if I hear the pump cycling more often than normal.
I am not worried about water stored in the pump. Lots of water moves in and out against that bladder in the tank. If no accumulator, when you close a faucet, the pump cuts off RIGHT THEN. With an accumulator, it will run for an additional 15 or so seconds to fill the accumulator. When you open a faucet, even before the pump comes on, the water in the accumulator is forced out by the stored air pressure.
Proper accumulator PSI is pump CUT-IN PSI minus 2 PSI. So, for a Shruflo 2.8 pump with 25 PSI cut-in, turn off the pump (shore water off). Open a faucet to bleed off all water pressure. Use a tire gauge to verify 23 PSI.
I went ahead and pulled the bad accumulator out today. The water in it was pretty ugly, rusty looking. I got to thinking.....If it's not functioning, then its not pushing water out to be replaced by fresh water. The implications of that - sanitizing the system isn't getting into the accumulator, nor is the anti-freeze if you're winterizing. Does that make sense?
The water in the tank might be stagnant only if it were full of water. If it had any air at all, the air would compress, and that amount of water would be pumped in and out every pump cycle.
If it were full, there would be no compression and no flow.
Just having water pass over the mouth of the tube going up into the accumulator would also move some water.
Now, if the throat of the tank is rusted closed and the tank is full of water (no air), then you are growing things.
Accumulators even when working can possibly be a source of bacteria. When accumulator is not working it never gets sanitized by chlorine.
U320 - 2000 vintage
Water pump cycles with about 1 second interval of rest.
I can not get a pressure reading on tank. I fill it with a PowerTank, but do not want to rupture the bladder by putting in too much air.
I do not get a reading with faucet open or faucet closed.
If I need a new tank here are my questions:
1) Should I forget the tank and just stick with the pump? How difficult is this to reconfigure?
2) If I should replace the tank, I'd like to do it myself, but I have to order and await delivery. So, are we doing any harm to the pump by it having to run more often? With the blue reserve tank, we could often wash our hands without the pump turning on.
You will not harm the pump to run without the accumulator.
But, the accumulator does serve the function you mention-- both smooths out pump pulses and "stores" water so the pump doesn't cycle on even if all you need is 2 oz of water.
When ours went out, I replaced it.
Brett Wolfe
Is here any way I can determine that it is the tank that has failed, before I bite the bullet?
George,
Depress the tire valve on the tank and see what comes out.
1. Water: bad news....bad tank :(
2. Nothing: Need to try and pressurize it to see if it works. You need a tire pressure gauge & service it. ::) Service and check occasionally, or you'll know its leaking air (valve (it is a regular tire valve) or bladder) if the pump cycles more & more as it does now. Hopefully you will be lucky. :))
2. Air: Need a tire pressure gauge. You might not have enough air in the bladder. Service and check occasionally, or you'll know its leaking air (valve (it is a regular tire valve) or bladder) if the pump cycles more & more as it does now. Hopefully you will be lucky. ;D
Good answer from Mike.
And proper PSI is pump cut-in pressure less 2 PSI. So for a Shruflo 2.8 pump with cut-in PSI of 25, correct tank pressure with pump off and a faucet open to bleed off PSI is 23 PSI.
Brett Wolfe
I can not get air into or out of the tank. When I press in on the valve no air escapes. I try to put air in and then depress the valve and no air comes out. I removed the valve from the stem and no air or water came out. Could it be the little valve inside the stem?
If you removed the valve, there is no valve in there.
There should be a cap on the valve stem. Inside the stem is the valve. You should have used a valve removal tool (some caps have the slotted tool on the cap) to remove the valve.
After that, there is just a hole which should let air in or out.
Try putting air into the tank without the valve in. It should woosh (my term) in and then when you remove the air chuck, air should rush out.
Try that.
O.K. I was not clear enough and used some wrong terms I am sure.
The valve stem is technically called a dil valve. I learned this from the Pressure Pro folks months ago. the dill valve was in place when I did all of my fooling around.
With the dill valve in place I can't get air into or out of the tank. Tomorrow when Les Schwab opens at 8:00 a.m. I will buy a replacement dil valve in case that is the problem. I hope it is only that.
In trying to get air into or out of the tank, I removed the dil valve. There was no air in the tank. No whoosh sound as I loosened it and took it out.
After putting the valve back in I tried to air it up. No luck. It does not want to take or hold air -- and that makes me think it is this little 89 cent valve.
I'll let you all know if that fixes things.
Thanks to everyone for their input.
Hi George,
Google schraeder valve. I think this is what is in the pressure tank for adding, releasing air.
George, my guess is that the bladder has ruptured and rust has plugged the hole, preventing air from going into the tank or coming out. To check, remove the dil/schraeder valve and stick an appropriately sized dowel or some other blunt instrument into the hole and see if the hole is open. If not, wiggle the dowel, pull it out and see if there is rust on the end. If so, your bladder is ruptured. Replace the tank.
Kent,
It does not look good. I followed your suggestion. I can not get the blunt end of a bamboo skewer in beyond one inch. No rust. No water.
Just an impenetrable blockage.
Is the system pressurized when you push the bamboo skewer in?
If it is, then you are hitting the bladder that is pressurized up against the top of the tank.
Try putting air in without a valve in it, and with no water pressure (open the sink faucets), and pump off.
See if air goes in then. Then measure, or put the pump on and see if air comes out.
Mike,
I am not sure what is going on here. I took out the valve, turned on the pump and opened the water faucet in the utility bay. No water pressure reading.
Then I put the air hose on the valve stem and opened the cold water drain valve as I put air into the tank, the water pressure increased noticeable in coming out of the cold water drain. No water squirted out. And I could put the wood skewer into the tank and got a pressure reading of only 1.5 psi.
Waited a minute or two and the bladder had again moved to the point that I could not get the skewer into the tank, so there is enough pressure to move the bladder up against the valve stem.
What is your interpretation of this?
I appreciate your help.
It seems that the tank will take air without the valve. :))
That leads me to believe that the valve is bad. :-[
The valve should be just like a tire valve. Tomorrow, take the valve to an auto parts place and see if they can duplicate it. Some are longer than others. You might take a look at the one you have. If you look closely, you will see a tiny spring. If you depress the tiny pin on the end, it should depress the spring and make the part with the rubber around it move. If it doesn't, you won't get air in or out. It might be corroded or just plain stuck. (If you are in the woods, you might be able to steal on from youe spare tire or tube you go down the river on) ;D
It seems that the bladder does not leak. :)) Otherwise you would have water coming out of the valve. :-[ Happy, happy, happy!
I think that when you get the valve, get an air gauge also, put the new valve in, put air in the tank to the specs quoting Barry's info "pre-charge set at the SAME pressure as the pump's pressure switch "turn on" setting. Typically, a 45 psi [3 bar] pump will turn on around 30 psi [2.07 bar]. Therefore, the pre-charge should also be 30 psi [2.07 bar]. The pre-charge MUST be set in a "static" condition (pump off and at least one water fixture opened). "
http://beamalarm.com/Documents/accumulator_tank%20_model_182_installation.html (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/accumulator_tank%20_model_182_installation.html)
If you can't get a new valve, turn off the pump, open faucets, put air into tank until water stops coming out of faucets, put old stem back in, put cap on, close faucets, put pump on. The bladder should be half functional with a little air in it. You should notice it in the pump on/off timing.
Mike: Following these exact steps the flow of water speeds up out of the faucet. When I pull the air hose off the valve stem the air comes RUSHING out.
Get the new valve & gauge. It seems to me the rest of the system is fine.
Have a beer, its late and labor day. Deal with it in the morning. It will work fine until then.
Mike,
I have a really good gauge that works just fine. It got dark and I know this is not an urgent issue.
What I am curious to learn is why when I followed the steps you outlined that the force of the water did not decrease and end. It increased.
But I will get a new dil/schraeder valve as I dropped the old one in the grass. Drats!
Frankly, I am leaning toward getting a new variable speed Shureflo pump and getting rid of the tank.
Are you hooked up to city water? ::)
Yes
Had to hit the hay last night, but, the pressure might be from the city water. ::) Disconnect from city water and do the procedure.
The city water is pressurizing the system and pushing the bladder against the top of the tank.
With no city water and pump off, pressurizing the tank with air will push all the water out. Pressurize as per beamalarm with gauge and new valve and you should be ok.
Mike B.
Do a little research on the internet before deciding to go with the variable speed pump and getting rid of the current setup. Some people love these pumps, but there are quite a few (including myself) who have had reliability issues with them. I tried two different Extreme 5.7 models and finally went back to the original.
Shurflo has a new Revolution 4008 water pump that works very very well. It is rated at 4.0 gpm. No electronics. Variable output is achieved by a
'bypass' water valve within the Revolution pump. If we are using a small water flow at a faucet, the pump will bypass the excess output. At full faucet flow, the pump does not bypass.
Mike:
You are the best. Thank you for hanging in there with me. The city water was preventing me from putting air into the tank. I do have a new Schraeder/Dil valve too, because I dropped the old one in the grass. The pump and accumulator tank are now working in concert with each other as designed to do. Happy. Happy. Happy.
This forum and the people on it are just amazing.