Foretravel Owners' Forum

Looking at them, they looked fine, no rust jacking, just some surface rust on the angle.  Putting the torque wrench on, on the front, one broke off right at the head.  Looked like only rust holding it on.  On the back, four broke at the "normal" 4/5 threads area.  From the passenger side, #2, 4, 5, & 7.  They'd been broken for a long time and had the signs of water having gotten in through the bolt head area.

The fix seems pretty straight forward, thanks to Neal and Brett.  What I'm wondering about it is the cure.  Can the corrosion x stuff be poured along the top of the angle to get it down between the angle and bulk head, or do we just worry about stopping future water getting in there.  Does the suggested undercoating seal that area best, or would using eternabond roofseal tape be a good idea.  Would replacing all the bolts with new ones, sealed with caulking be a good idea or is that just asking for more broken bolts that still are holding at this point?  Getting the bolt heads sealed seems like a very important part of the process, but how do you do that and still be able to check them annually.

Gayland,

When James Stallings repaired my bulkhead, it was saturated with Ospho which chemically killed the corrosion and at the same time primed the area.  James had the joint cleaned and then it was painted.

Call James for his choice of paint.  I like the Ospho and paint process better than the corrosionX one as it does not require twice a year reapplication to be effective.

James' is approach to repair is my preferred method and includes nut and bolt replacement of all roll-lock bolts.

CorrosionX is super penetrating.  If you pour it on, it will get into everywhere, especially if there is bare corroded metal present.

You can not paint over CorrosionX, so if you are going to end up coating the area with something, CorrosionX is not the way to go.

Torqued the bulkhead bolts today,  19 front, 17 rear.  Right 2 in front were broken and 2 in the rear on the right side but not together.  All broken a long time ago.  There was also one in the front not broken, but threads in the frame stripped.  Had an extra bolt nearby.  Will do the fix when I can.

Had MOT check torque on all ours this week while in for service - all OK. 

-M

So a question arises - Do they do the torque test now on everyone that comes in, or is it just if you request it?  The reason I ask, PO had mine in in 05, so wondering if it might have been checked then.

I don't think I would leave it to chance.
Normally they are only going to do work you authorize unless there is a safety recall or service bulletin.

Gayland,
 
Now cut that out!  It took me a minute to figure out that PO is Previous Owner.  Never seen that one before.

We requested it (and paid a small charge).  You can do it yourself if you have the proper torque wrench, which we don't yet.  We'd previously done visual inspections but the recent topic "revival" here reminded us that due diligence meant torque wrench.

Michelle

Well obviously I've done it.  The reason for my question was if it had been done 5 years ago, then the problems have developed in the past 5 years.  Nothing in their invoice's from then indicate it was done so I'll assume it wasn't and I therefore don't have a clue how long it's been a problem.  Michelle, you're correct, a torque wrench is an essential test.  As I said previously, mine all looked just fine.

I really don't understand the engineering behind this though.  On mine with 4 broke in a small area, apparently some time ago, yet there has not been a domino effect, so to speak.  Aside from the obvious rust jacking problem that some are experiencing, it would seem there really isn't much stress on these bolts.  How many threads are there screwed into the 1/8 inch material?  I would have bet a million dollars that it would strip those out before it broke the bolt.  But I was wrong once before too.  Time to go do an experiment.  Disclaimer, I only have a 300 Horse engine, and don't know how heavy a load was ever pulled, although the first owner pulled a horse trailer.  And I don't have the joy stick retarder, just the button, so there are always brakes involved with braking.

George - don't worry, when I become king, my first decree will be NO ABBREVIATIONS.  The second one will be 55 mile per hour speed limit.

Where are the correct torque-values found?

Chad and Judy
'98 U320  -  Wickenburg, AZ

I am beginning to wonder if the broken bolts are not from over torquing in the original instalation. Has anyone considered this possibility. If so then we may be overly concerned about the potential consequences.

Has anyone simply drilled out the old Roloks and replaced them with new oversized Roloks? This would be much simpler to do and since the original installation lasted 17 years I think it might be adequate.

Any comments?

I would bet the rolocs are harder than the hinges of hell,,,,no drilling them out.

Gary is right on the money: They are nearly impossible to drill out, but Brett Wolfe described (in an archived message) his method of screwing  the Roloc completely through the 1/8"walled box tubing, then drilling out the 1/4" hole to fit larger through-hole bolts, washers and lock-nuts.

Kent, that's exactly what I was thinking, but not wanting to sound like I'm trying to putting the blame on FOT since we don't know.  BUT, if they are so hard, which I have no doubt of, then maybe they're brittle?  I tried to try my experiment, but all I could find was a 1/4 inch hex head self tapping screw.  It stripped out the 1/8" material (soft iron)  at 180 inch pounds, for whatever that's worth.

If I recall some of my old "hard drive" info I learned years ago, bolts are designed for tensile as well as shearing strength.  Of course the material and method used in fabricating also make significant differences in specified performance.  Let's not forget hardness as well.

Chad,
Look in one of the appendix in the back of your FT owners manual. There is a page of torques.

If you don't have it, google bolt torques.

Another approach to drilling the roloc would be to utilize a mag drill with a 7/16" rotabroach centered on the roloc.
You would then have a 7/16" hole where the roloc was,kinda like a small hole saw.
The trick would be to make a rig/jig to apply the magdrill securely.
After you had the initial hole then you could drill the remaining hole in the other wall of the box tube for the thru bolt application.
Having used self tapping/threading fasteners such as roloc, I believe that by applying them without the proper tool (driver with a clutch at a given torque) the factory may have over torqued and broken many of the fasteners at assembly. The pilot holes also may have been suspect and may not have been the correct size.
In any event the repairs that have been discussed should be more than effective.
Maintenance on these wonderful coaches should first priority.
I applaud all the folks who have given their sage advice to this topic.
Thank You all.

If you do not have the information in your Foretravel manual then make sure you have the information on the grade of the bolt because that affects the torque values.  Also, unless otherwise stated most torque values are DRY, not oiled.  Under torquing is as bad as over torquing because the bolt could loosen.

Seems as though we are beating a dead horse trying to figure out why the bolts break.  The real problem is the rust jacking which needs to be prevented before more bolts break or pull out.  I'm thinking remove all the bolts so that any rust between the angle and bulkhead tube can be cleaned out, coat with ospho to kill the rust, paint and/or coat with undercoat.  Bolt it all back together using 3/8 x 3" grade 8 bolts where possible (no beam in the way on the other side) and some type of blind fastener in the holes where there is a beam welded to the other side.  When everything is back together coat the angle and joint with undercoat.
 
Does this sound like it would be a good fix? 

Can the Rolok bolts can be reused?

If they can I would use new ones, and only in the holes where it is not possible to use the grade 8 bolts.

I have yet to see where on my 1999 40ft no tag, no slide U320 WHERE the bulkhead bolts are.
 
I'd appreciate it if someone cold mark up a side view of a Foretravel with the fore/aft locations of the bulkhead
___

best, paul
"Thriving not surviving" <(*¿*)>
Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon) "Life is what happens when you are doing other things!" "If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much room!"
See our blog at LazyDazers.com
 

Paul,

Look at the underside of your coach, a little aft of the front axle and fore of the rear one.  There are 2 seams running across the width of the coach with lots of bolts (the Rollocks) going through them.  Those are the bulkhead seams and bolts.  You don't need to get under your coach (but block the frame if you do), just crouch down next to it.

The Whitepaper issued by the factory is here


which shows a photo.

Michelle

Do not try to drill out a grade 8 Rolok bolt installed in mild steel.

DO drill an access hole through the FG bottom just in from the 1 1/2" beam "inboard" of the broken bolt.

Remove the foam insulation-- easily done with a screwdriver.

Double nut the Rolok and continue it's journey toward the center of the coach.

The process of removing the broken Rolok is much aided by applying penetrating oil for a day or so before trying to back out the Rolok.  I used 50/50 ATF/acetone.

Then overdrill the hole and install a grade 8 3/8" bolt per my earlier posts.

Brett Wolfe

Thanks Michael.
 
Chad
'98 U320  -  Wickenburg, AZ

Hi Paul,
  The bulkheads are at each end of the fiberglass belly cover, which runs from the front bulkhead seam, to the rear bulkhead seam. So they are where the fiberglass under cover begins, and ends. I hope this helps.

Paul:

Here's the link to my blulkhead issues.  That should give you a good feel for the exactly what to look for just ahead of the rear wheels.  If I remember right, I took a quick look under your coach when you parked in front of the house when on your way home.  As I recall, I didn't see the kind of failure that I had when these pictures were taken.



Hope all is well buddy.

Yo, Russel!  Thanks!
 
After we left you last April we we went to Nac where, among other things, MOT found some minor repairs needed on the bulkheads.
 
But, being an unreconstituted structural steel draftsman '52 - '62 in another life in Akron, Ohio, I don't hold truck with bolted connections that are not thru bolts.  I might have to grit my teeth and accept something as tiny as 3/8 inch diameter, but I think I see bulkhead thru bolts in my future.
 
Being in the San Francisco Bay Area currently, I'm sorry time and commitments do not allow next week's route to El Centro, CA to go thru Baton Rouge...  Baton Rouge: Next year for sure!

best, paul
 
PS> Please give my warm regards to your lovely bride....
___
 
"Thriving not surviving" <(*¿*)>
Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon) "Life is what happens when you are doing other things!" "If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much room!"
See our blog at LazyDazers.com
 

I think the light just went on in my brain.  Sounds as though the original Rolok bolts are long enough to penetrate 2 sides of the frame tubing.  Is that correct?  I have not extracted one and makes a lot more sense if it does do that.  I thought they were only long enough to go through one side of the frame tube.

The other unanswered question, but maybe I should be patient, can the Rolok bolts be reused if it is in a place where a frame member prevents a thru-bolt? (Assuming the metal tube and bolt are not rusted)

Correct.  The Roloks are long enough that they stick THROUGH the angle and 1 1/2" box beam and the threads are sufficiently long for one to double nut and run the remains of the broken bolt toward the center of the coach. Penetrating oil on both ends of broken bolts made for 100% removal on any I attempted to remove.

And, I have not considered reusing the Rolok-style bolt.  If you are under there anyway with drill and have a supply of the 1 3/8" waterproof plugs to reseal the bottom FG part, I would absolutely through bolt replacements.  It is just not that much additional work.

Brett Wolfe

What I learned today, installing new bolts - I added two new ones so far.  The broken rolox's were too rusted to get them double nutted so I ended up just drilling new holes.  In the future I won't even bother trying to get the broken ones out.  But, I think it will be worth my while to try to back out some of the un-broken ones.  If I can get them out, it's a piece of cake to then enlarge the hole and put in the bolts per Brett's instructions.

A dumb question, what is being referenced as the front and rear bulkheads? In the cabin, the most forward "wall" or bulkhead is the one for the head.  In the underneath storage areas, I presume it would be the most forward "wall" or bulkhead.

Similar for the rear.  In the cabin, the most rear "wall" or bulkhead is the one between the bedroom and the bathroom.  Similarly for the one in the underneath storage.

So to ensure I understand correctly and inspect the correct ones, which ones being referenced as the front and rear bulkheads?


It is in the Oklahoma City, OK area.

Is the correct torque for the front bulkhead bolts 19 inch-pounds and the correct torque for the rear bulkhead bolts 17 inch-pounds? I want to ensure I am understanding it correctly.

Thank you very much.

I have not been able to do this inspection yet, but plan to do it.  I think I now understand where to look.  I do not recall seeing the gap as is shown in the third picture.  But I wasn't looking for these issues either.

From the earlier message string, it appears the correct torque for the front bolts is 19 (inch-pounds?) and for the rear bolts is 17 (inch-pounds?).  I want to confirm it is inch-pounds.

Yes, the input is helping very much.  I wish I could devote much more time checking these things out than I have been able to do so far.  But everyone's comments are helping very much.  Plus this indicates this forum has a great wealth of knowledge concerning these MHs and people are willing and eager to help anyone out if they can.  That is a GREAT benefit.  I belong to a similar group for my motorcycle and they have been invaluable to me for normal maintenance guidance as well as installation of upgrades to my bike.  I anticipate the people here on this forum are very similar.

The current owner had a RV dealer/shop check out the home portion this fall.  It appears everything checked out fine except that they had apparently not winterized it properly last fall and had to replace the plumbing on it due to freeze damage. (Her husband was very ill and passed away a few months ago.)

While I realize this inspection probably missed some things, it also indicates that at least portions of it were checked out.  We do plan to have the drive train checked out by a repair shop this week (hopefully).

Everything we have seen so far indicates this coach has been very well maintained over the years.  I was actually surprised at how clean the engine compartment is.  I expected to see oily surfaces and I did not see any oily surfaces anywhere in the engine compartment.

ncaabbfan
Your Question, "Is the correct torque for the front bulkhead bolts 19 inch-pounds and the correct torque for the rear bulkhead bolts 17 inch-pounds?"
No. The correct  Rolok Bolt check torque value is 250 INCH-POUNDS.  See Brett's excellent summary at Bulkhead Repair-- A Comprehensive Look (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=8645.msg38025#msg38025) 
19 and 17 are the number of bolts that Jerry had across the full length of his front and rear bulkhead, 3 inch angle irons.
Keep asking questions where you have any doubt.
Neal

Thank you very much!  I thought the 17 and 19 could not be inch-pounds. But I wanted to make sure I understood the correct torque.  So all of these bolts (front and rear) should be 250 inch-pounds.

Yes. 250 inch-lbs.

What you will likely find is that they either break off with little more than finger torque (i.e. are broken) or hold good.

I have run into very few that were loose, but would torque up.

Brett Wolfe

I did a visual check today of the two bulkheads on the MH we are strongly considering purchasing.  I laid down on on each side of the MH and visually checked and sighted down each bulkhead.  I did not see any signs of rust nor any distortion or swelling of either bulkhead.  It appears that all the bolts are in place.

I did not do a torque check of the bolts.

Since I did not see any signs of rust and presuming the bolts check out ok with the torque check, what is recommended be  done to protect the bolts and joints in the future to prevent any rust damage or distortion?

Thank you very much.

Morris

Morris,

If no distortion and no rust, the worse case is that you will have a few broken bolts to replace.  No big deal.

When that is done, I would recommend using a wire brush on a drill to clean the area from just onto the white fiberglass "belly" around to and including the vertical part of the angle beam where you see the bolts (i.e. to the top of the vertical beam where you see the bolt heads).

Then mask off the top half of the heads of the bolts (so you could still get a socket/wrench on the bolt) and mask off the FG floor (leave 1/2" or so of floor exposed). Spray with automotive undercoating.  One can will easily do both front and back beam areas.

I suspect a reasonable amount of the damage is being done by water migrating in along the threads of the bolts (the angle beam is drilled larger than the bolt threads so that the bolt will torque to the box beam inboard of the angle beam) every time a coach is driven in rain. 

Brett

I believe 250 inch-pounds equates to 20.83 foot-pounds (250/12= 20.833333).  Have I understood it correctly? I hope I can check the torque of the bolts tomorrow...if the weather is OK.  Thank you very much.

Basically it is caused by the same reason that 10 year old firetrucks, stored inside, with extremely low mileage, rust out.  Water from washing get into places it would not normally get into, and then it just sets there until it evaporates and the rust process has started.  And I believe there have been some fixes offered here on the forum to prevent that from happening.

We brought our MH to our house today.  I wanted to check the bulkhead bolts as one of my very first things.  I used approx. 21 foot-pounds as the criteria (I believe 250 inch-pounds converts to 20.833 foot-pounds.) I checked all the bolts on the front bulkhead, they were all tight with the 20-25 foot-pounds reading on my torque wrench.  I then checked all the bolts on the rear bulkhead.  All bolts except for 2 or 3 were tight with the 20-25 foot-pounds reading on my torque wrench.  The 2 or 3 would rotate at approx. 15 foot-pounds but they did not seem to get any tighter than the approx. 15 foot-pounds reading. they just continued to rotate.  They did not fall out and I did not see any sign of rust on them.

In fact, I did not see any sign of rust nor distortion of the angle frame anywhere on either of the 2 bulkheads.

What do you think I should do concerning the 2 or 3 bolts that rotated at approx. 15 foot-pounds?

Do you think I should use a brush of some type to clean around the bolts to prepare for applying the automotive undercoating?

Thank you.

According to James at Xtreme, leave them alone!

My guess would be they're stripped out, you might be able to work them out and install the new bolts with nuts.  Bot of they're not side by side, I wouldn't worry about it.  Others opinions may differ.

The conservative answer, particularly if the ones that will not torque up are near each other is to remove, drill to 3/8" and thru bolt them.

Brett Wolfe

Earlier in this thread were comments on the Rolok bolts being way too to hard to drill the center out.
The Rolok bolts can be drilled out with a good HSS drill bit.
I have 5 bolt heads from the rear bulkhead which came out with about 5 threads and a rusty break where bolt entered 1.5 inch square tube. I put one in the vise and drilled out the center with an 11/64 bit - took less then one minute, however, when the drill bit reached the bolt head it started making noises. These bolts are hard on the outside layer but much less hard on the inside by design (I am a retired Mechanical Engineer).

I have not yet attempted to to remove a broken stud by drilling and using an easy out. Doing this would mean I could replace broken bolts without making 1 3/8 holes in fiberglass belly cover.

Here is what I found out when repairing my bulkheads on my 96 36' U270.  First the joints had no separation and only a little rust on the metal angle which I wire brushed off.  I found 4 bolts on the rear bulkhead that were broken at the usual 3 or 4 threads from the head.  Three were at the passenger side end and one about 6 bolts in from the right side on the rear.  The front bulkhead had 2 bolts broken at the end of the angle on the passenger side.  I decided not to remove any of the bolts that passed the torque test, but a couple of bolts did back out with the torque test, so I removed them and replaced with 3/8" grade 8 bolts.  Most of the others  I drilled a new hole alongside the broken bolt.  I also installed new bolts in between every 2nd and 3rd bolt that was not broken. I made 1 1/4 x 1 1/4 x 1/8 backing plates for the locking nuts. There was one place where I used the double nut procedure to remove a broken bolt.  That was difficult as it was well rusted and required an overnight application of rust buster.  I really needed to get that one out as it was near the end of the angle and the only spot for a replacement.  In another post I mentioned that I had some 1 1/2 x 3" tubing in the frame of the basement floor behind front angle.  That was not the case as I found out when drilling for new bolts.  It really was 2 pieces of 1 1/2 tubing back to back.  It did not extend all the way to the ends  but almost.  I had to use 4" long bolts where it was doubled.  I also found a short section at the rear with doubled 1 1/2 on the drivers side at the utility compartment.  Most of the bottom panel at the rear just had one piece of 1 1/2, so 3" bolts for that.  I'm not sure why there is 2 pieces at the front unless it is extra support for the large propane tank.  At the ends of the angle the original bolt went into the hollow part of the metal tube that runs fore and aft down the sides.  All I could do was install a new bolt inboard a little beside that tube.  I also predrilled a  piece of hardwood (maple) on a drill press to use as a guide in drilling the new holes.  I had to shape it a little as metal angle is not exactly 90 degrees on the inside.  I clamped it vertically to the angle where I wanted a new hole.  Had to wing it in a couple of places where something was in the way and I couldn't use the guide.

Before I started any of this, I cleaned and lightly sanded the fiberglass skin near the bulkheads with the intention of re-fiberglassing the holes that have to be made for the nuts.  I drilled a couple of holes with a hole saw and didn't like it for fear of penetrating a tank.  I switched to a Rotozip tool and made small rectangular holes in the fiberglass skin.  That worked well as the bit isn't long enough to go through the upper skin.  I used a small long 1/4" diameter magnet to locate the metal behind the fiberglass.  I could go right up to the metal with the rotozip if needed and around any of the protruding old bolts.  I found a couple of places at the rear bulkhead where there was a piece of 3/4" thick plywood in addition to the foam.  One was at the right side where the water pump and pressure tank are located.  I think it is there for bolting down the water pump.  It had been wet but was not rotten.  The rotozip made it easy to remove enough plywood for the nut and bolt.  I had to go slow though so as not to break the bit.  The other piece of plywood was under the utility storage area next to the fresh water tank with nothing bolted to it and it was like new.  After the bolts were in I foamed the cavity around the nuts.  I haven't done the fiberglassing yet, waiting for good weather and time permitting.

Most of the broken bolts are at the curb side, Maybe water runs to that side because the curb side is usually lower.  Also the fresh water tank overflow is on that side at the rear.  I plan to undercoat the angle and spray the joint next to the angle with Corrosion X HD once a year.  Also maybe relocate/or extend the fresh water tank overflow. 

Think about this, the basement compartments seem to be built like a deep one shelf bookcase with a plank at the top and bottom and 4 vertical planks in the middle with no lateral bracing.  A bookcase would normally have a back made of plywood or solid wood for lateral bracing.  In this case it seems like the only lateral support is from the metal at the ends which is part of the wheel suspension.  I suppose the tanks could provide a little lateral support.  There is a lot of weight down there if the tanks are full, along with the batteries, tools and all the other stuff we carry.  When we step on the brakes it all wants to move forward or a little bit aft during acceleration.  Maybe that is helping to break the bolts.  I also notice that there is a row of these same bolts across the bottom at each of the inner bulkheads.  I didn't do the torque test on them or notice any missing.  My bolt man said that my bolts are not Rolok as Rolok has a trilob slightly spiral shape to the threads.  The 2 unbroken ones I removed are round and threaded to the point on the end and are hardened.  They will form threads when screwed into a softer metal such as mild steel. 

I checked all the welds I could see for cracks and didn't find any, did find a leaking shock.  Thanks to Brett Wolfe and all the others who provided advice about this problem. 

A couple weeks ago, I torque tested the bolts on my bulkheads.
Like yours, my bulkheads show no separation and little rust on the metal angle. 
Like yours, three failed bolts on the rear bulkhead were at the passenger side end. and I wonder if that is just a coincidence.
I wonder how many others have three bolts on the rear at the passenger side end that have failed?

My front bulkhead had no bolts that failed the torque test while the rear bulkhead had 7 bolts that failed, including one that already had another bolt installed a quarter inch away.
I had one loose bolt at the driver side end on the rear. It torqued OK when I removed and reinstalled it. I noticed that it did not appear to be a ROLOK bolt.

A lot of discussion on bulkhead repairs..FOT and MOT check only visual. IF no separation and very little rust they will not torque.

FWIW.

Well, here is my experience at MOT for my Bulkhead inspection/repair -
 
From today's invoice as I picked up the coach
 
"Seal/Clean/Check Bulkhead and Bolts -
 
"Drilled and installed two new bolts to replace two missing bolts, cleaned bulkhead. Aluminum strip underneath was falling down,  - reattached. Painted and sealed bottom edge of bulkhead and aluminum strip"
 
Total labor Charges - $84.00
 
Total parts - Bolts and Paint - $6.71
 
I don't think I will be selling the coach any time soon for fear of bulkhead issues or cost...:-)
 
Mike Rodgers did say if they see significant issues - they do not attempt repair and refer the client to FOT since they do not want to get into major bulkhead repairs due to liability concerns.

Tim,

Seems like a very reasonable charge.

To All:

I can understand why the factory bolted the sections together but would not it make more sense to weld the sections for repair rather than re-bolt them? I assume that this is all mild steel. 

I think the proximity of the steel to the fiberglass, foam insulation and wood would prevent welding.

John,

Accessing the area to weld would be very difficult and the sandwich material in the basement floor (where you are working) would not tolerate heat.

Through bolting is a good fix.

Brett Wolfe

Guys, just started this bulkhead inspection and have three 4 or five thread bolts, and 2 more that torque  CW to 20 but CCW they back out, so I suspect they are broken....How long were the original rolocks?  Do you have to use the hole say to get the remainder of the bolt out ...How much room do you have up front before you hit the fuel tank.....I have searched the forums, but still do not have a clear idea of what has to be done....thanks,      Dave and Wendy 99u320,  05 mini cooper

Dave,

You will never hit the fuel tank.  The Roloks thread into the beams below the floor of the fuel tank compartment--  floor of coach below the beam and floor of the basement above.

The standard Rolock used in the Foretravel bulkhead assembly is 3" long.  Some of the newer coaches have longer bolts threaded into two 1 1/2" box beams at the outboard ends of the bulkheads, so those bolts will be longer.

And you will need to drill a hole in the floor to access the "back" of the Rolok and to install the washer and nut on the new bolt to replace the Rolock.

See my earlier post for plug part numbers, etc.

Brett Wolfe

has anyone ruled out putting new rolocs, into new drilled holes?

Since I have no bulkhead separation, that is exactly what I intend to do. The old ones have funtioned for 17 years, I would be happy with another 17.

I purchased a dozen new Roloks from the parts department when I was at FOT last month. I will drill new holes next to the old ones when I get a chance and install the new bolts.

Just finished the bulkhead repair on the back of our 99u320, and am sure the front will go rapidly...Could not have done it without all the info available here..

For what it is worth,  Foretravel now has a kit, with the caps, bolts, and rolocs, for those who do not want to track them down on their own......

Hi,
 
Hum...how much for the kit?
 
Jim
2002 U320
 

From Don Hay 1992 U280 36' 11/12/09
I learned that FOT Parts sells a "kit" to fix the bulkhead separation, so this afternoon, I went over to Parts and found out the contents of the kit:

  1. There are 8, 3/8", 2 ½" long, grade 8 bolts with flat and lock washers and nuts.
  2. Also, at least an equal number (I think there were more like 10) of "roll-lock" bolts. These look like lag bolts and are what was installed originally. They are 3" long, 5/16" diameter, black steel. The inside head of the bolt has grooves in it that dig in to the angle iron, preventing the head from vibrating/backing out.
  3. 8 plastic plugs for the nuts on the through-hole bolts.
  4. No instructions included, so parts put me through to Mark Harvey, who patiently explained to me:
      a) For the 3/8" bolts, holes must be drilled large enough for the bolts to pass cleanly through both angle iron and square tubing.
      b) Square tubing is not the heavy-duty tubing used for the side frame , but a thinner tubing used for internal support.
      c) It would be possible to crush this tubing if too much pressure were placed on the nuts. Therefore the recommended torque on these heads is 20 ft-lbs, or for a "mechanically inclined" person, 'firm but not excessive' was the description.
      d) When drilling the holes for the "roll-lock" bolts through the angle iron, the holes have to be larger diameter than the 5/16" bolt, so it passes freely through the angle iron.
      e) In between the angle iron and the square tubing is a piece of "sheet steel" (I couldn't detect any in my coach); must also drill the larger hole through it.
      f) The hole in the square tubing should be 9/32" or smaller, for the roll-lock bolts to grip into. He said smaller would work to grip better, but would be harder to torque into tubing. No mention of torque limitations for the roll-lock bolts.
  5. Mark said that the 3/8" bolts and nuts are designed to pull the angle iron and square tubing together.
  6. Then, the roll-lock bolts are installed between through-hole bolts to firmly connect the components together. The kit sells for $35. If Wayne is using huck bolts, then I doubt that he is even using this kit. That would indicate that it is intended for us do-it-yourselfers That's about it.

http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/bulkhead_separation.htm (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/bulkhead_separation.htm)

Barry or anyone who has seen one of these kits,

Are they still using the 1 3/4" NON-waterproof plugs or have they switched to the 1 3/8" waterproof plug (same manufacturer) as I used.

I recently did a mechanical inspection on a coach with the original style 1 3/4" plugs, and all but one had allowed water to leak into the joint area.

1 3/8" is the largest water proof plug they make and it IS large enough to work through.

Brett Wolfe

Brett,
 
As of last year at this time, they were still using the 1 3/4" plugs. However, what I did was put a healthy amount of PolyseamSeal around the edge of each plug before I shoved it into the hole.  The excess oozed out around the circumference and dried/cured there.  I am therefore fairly confident that water is not getting up into the joint from the access holes I cut.
 
Now that you have bought the subject up, I am going underneath and inspect all of the access holes.

If one is worried about the plugs leaking, fiberglassing over the holes should solve any leak problem.  It wasn't too hard to do, but it is messy and takes some time.  If one has never worked with fiberglass and polyester resin, I would not recommend covering a hole on the bottom of a panel as a first experience.  I found that I could do about 2 holes at a time before the resin would start to harden.  Each hole required about 1 oz of resin for a patch of 2 layers of mat, one a bit larger than the other.  I had a board with a layer of foam covered with flexible plastic that I jacked up against the patch until it hardened.  Later found that surface tension alone was enough to hold the patch in place until it hardened.  Clean around the hole with a wet cloth or whatever it takes to get it clean.  Sand to roughen the surface and wipe with acetone.  Fill the cavity with foam and sand smooth after it hardens.  If there are any voids, fill with bondo and sand smooth.  Prepare your patch.  Measure resin into a can or plastic container, add white color if desired,  add hardener and stir thoroughly but not fast which will create bubbles.  Let it sit for 3 minutes.  Brush a thick coat of resin around the hole.  Pour some resin on the patch and put it in place.  Use the brush to dab on more resin to wet out the patch.  You cannot use the brush like you are painting, place it flat against the patch to wet the patch.  Once wet, jab the brush straight up and down to work out any bubbles and get loose strands in place.  After it is hard the patch can be sanded smooth.  I used a small disk in an electric drill.  Acetone is used for clean up before the resin hardens.  Read a book about working with fiberglass if you have no experience with it.  Make a small panel of fiberglass, drill a hole and patch it as a learning experience. 

Jerry,

A bomb-proof solution, but MUCH more difficult than just using waterproof plugs (which are available).

Brett Wolfe

My solution was low tech and from no experience.  I cut round discs from the lids of margarine tubs, put a ring of caulk around the edge and pushed it into place.  That was 9 months ago. They are still in place.

I met James at Xtreme Graphics when I was at MOT. His shop did the bulkhead repair on my coach. My coach was the first one he did. It was amazing to hear the story about how a lot of this came about. James tried to get FT to cover these repairs under warrenty back when he worked there. But they didn't. At least that is the way I remember it.

I do believe that his shop did a great job on the repair and I am very pleased to recommend him to every FT owner I see.

His shop also did my headlight conversion.

Finished my bulkhead repair yesterday , On my initial inspection there was no separation and just a little surface rust. Checked all bolts for torque at 21 ft pounds and on the back there was 2 broken bolts so I sure I over did it but I drilled 9 access holes 1    3/8  and  9  3/8 bolt holes evenly spaced between every 2nd bolt . Did the same on the front but only 8 new bolts.  After that I cleaned, primed  &  painted with oil base satin black paint  , 2 coats of paint , so it sealed all the bolts from water.  Last thing I installed  the water tight rubber plugs and cleaned the bottom.  Looks Great.  I can sleep better now that is behind me.  Thanks for the advice on this project.        Art

Great job.

And that painting/undercoating is an important step for the future.  If you look at the Rolok bolt, you will notice that it has raised area-- kind of a locking mechanism where the bolt head meets the shank/meets the 1/4" angle beam.  That has to allow water migration into the bolt area.  Sealing it eliminates that access point for water.

Brett

I drove a 97 u320 two days ago that had banging noises from the middle of the coach under the floor. Anyone have noises in conjunction with the bulkhead bolts?

Or any other reason for noises?

Thank. Bob

Bob,

Never heard one that did that, but I guess if it was let go long enough that most or all of the 15+ bolts were broken, I guess it could lead to noise.

But, the bulkheads are not in the middle of the coach-- they are just behind the front wheels and just in front of the drive axle.

Said another way, the front bulkhead is 8" behind the back of the front tire.  The rear bulkhead is 8" in front of the front of the back tire.

So, I would probably look for another source of the noise if you heard it in the middle of the coach.

Brett

Middle of the coach could be something unsecured (and stored in an unstable configuration) in one of the storage bays?

-M

The oddball  noise that I a devil of a time finding was a bottle of scotch under the sink. It was laying on a towel and most of the time it was no problem but under certain conditions while rounding a sharp curve and slowing it would roll up against the plastic drain piping under the sink and I got an odd CLUNK. Only after I drank the scotch did I realize what the noise had been. As an experiment I put my new bottle in the same place and got the same results.
MORAL: Always drink a full bottle of scotch so it won't be noisy. :)
Gary B

I am both a new guy and the oldest guy here.  How?  I was the foretravel of California salesman and sales manager from 1984 to 1989.  I drove the first unihome made when don Moore(boney) drove the prototype out to California in 1987 or so. 

Went to Nac in oct 1987 for the unihome introduction and watched them put the bolts in number 1.  I asked if they were sure about this?  They said no problem.  I think James Trianna was there then?

Now 25 years later buying a u320.  Almost funny.  Almost.  Went 50,000 miles in foretravels back then without owning one. 

The 97 u320 is sure a better coach. Finally.

I saw the first foretravel ever made at a buddy rally back then. And travco's, gtc's also.

The aqua hot and dual panes and better gel coat and the enclosed tank bays are much better.

I am the reason Monaco had 8 airbags. 

Bob

Hi
Can anyone recommend (or provide) a good video of this problem area?  I am new to Foretravel and we are shopping for a used 320, but I would like to completely understand this issue, so that I can thoroughly inspect any coaches that we are considering purchasing.
Thanks
Barry

Barry,

Welcome.

These links should get you started in your quest for info on Foretravel bulkheads:

Bulkhead Repair-- A Comprehensive Look (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=8645.0)

Bulkhead Repair (Partial Floor Replacement) (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=31694.msg280564#msg280564)

Rear Bulkhead Repair (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=30114.0)

Before, During, After (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=16653.0)

Attached is a pic of my rear bulkhead repair. The fiberglass was detached along the bottom of the square tube structiure in the floor. I elected to open it up to clean/inspect and treat the tubing with POR. I then fiberglassed it using West System Epoxy. working overhead under the coach is a real pain but I know the tubing was in good shape now. if you look closely you'll see one of the through bolts and nut. Before glassing I filled all the voids with foam, virtually impossible to get anything to stick to rusty metal. That square tube across the back is not beefy enough for Rolllocks in my opinion. The through bolts are a much better solution. The key to this repair is to keep water out. Once it gets wet in that area the water can't get out.