I am talking about the Front "forehead" or "brow" clearance lights.
One bulb, in the center cluster of three, has burned out. I found that the light fixture had been siliconed into the fiberglass cut-out/hole - not a surprise because I have known that leaks around these lights are a fairly well-known event.
I got the fixture out with some difficulty, and instlled a replacement bulb, but my question is what is the best goop to seal it up again?
Maybe a better way of putting it would be is there a better product than silicone? 3M 4200 or 5200 come to mind, but I have no experience with these two compounds; however, I have been led to believe that 5200 is a near-permanent fix, and I don't want to have to destroy the fixture or the fiberglass if it has to be replaced again.
I will appreciate all thoughts and ideas!
OBTW - the mounting screws are rusty suggesting some leakage in the past, but I have no evidence (or history) of leaks. 2003 Coach and I have been the Owner since March, 2010.
Dan,
It seems us U270 34 ft coach owners have similar issues with the front marker lights. Mine is the top driver's position fixture. Three yeats ago I replaced the bulb mount and put a small amount of silicone II (GE product) and now the leak is back and the bulb has burned out again. This is an item on the to-do list as well.
This time, I'm heading to the auto parts store and see what they have for gasket material. I'll cut out a new gasket using the old as the template.
My issue is that the marker fixture is so high up the front cap that the curvature of the fiberglass cap allows for water intrusion as the gasket or silicone begin to shrink with time.
4200 and 5200 are great products, but are adhesive sealants. It is difficult (4200) or nearly impossible (5200) to break the seal once they have cured.
I would recommend a 100% clear RTV silicone.
At Lowe's you can buy PolyseamSeal all-purpose adhesive/sealant, exterior. It comes in a full tube for caulking gun or a squeezable tube. I have caulked the front cap/roof junction, around the sewer vent, all of the lag bolts holding our Datstorm satellite dish to the roof, and haven't had a single leak in more than five years. It comes in clear and white.
Thanks Peter, Bob and Don.
Today I'm going on a search for gasket material, and PolySeamSeal; I already have the clear RTV Silicone. Also going to get a handful of Stainless Screws.
Our 03 leaked through those marker lights, found out we had a problem as we drove through the outer bands of a hurricane as it made its way in to the northeast. When I removed the back of the overhead cabinets there was a LOT of water up there.
Anyway at that time the marker lights were just in there with the original gaskets, I seem to recall some of the gaskets had slits in them, as though they were replaced, and the slits were pointing upward which would trap the water and not let it drain out. I tried some RTV silicone on the gaskets (a bead of sealant around the perimeter as I did not want to glue them in place). That fix seemed to work until we went through the outer bands of the second hurricane of that season. I think that's also when we discovered the 03 wiper mechanism recall as the wipers would over turn and knock the blades out of the arms. I know you are thinking "good times" with water dripping down on our heads from the TV cabinet while your wiper blades are falling off during heavy heavy rain.
Enough rambling ... don't use RTV silicone unless you have no resort, its hard to remove when you need to and difficult to 'fix' if you don't get it sealed right (it does not like more RTV over it), plus as it cures it releases acid which is bad for electrical connections.
You already have some good suggestions, my only addition would be Parlastic sealant from Parr, good stuff.
Thanks Steve -
I used the PolySeamSealer (Lowe's) on the one that was burned out. All have been re-sealed with Silicone (Ugh!) in the past. Now I need to decide on whether to launch a clean out and re-caulk project or wait a while to see how the newly "fixed" one holds up.
OBTW - I couldn't identify the bulb that I took out. I had a #164 that was labeled as a 'side marker' and 'license plate' bulb, and it worked. But I took the old one to a local Good-Ol'-Boy auto parts store, and the clerk said, "Oh! You need a 194 which is not 'long-life' or the 193 which is rated for a lot more hours." So I bought some of those and used the 193 instead. Hope he is right!
I changed my lights over to LEDs and hope to never have to worry about it again. It was not expensive and it has not leaked and i have not had to change any out so far. I use my lights a lot as I drive in the early morning and into the evening more than most. It is a lot easier to run the east coast later at night especially going around NY down to DC area.
I am sure that this has been covered before but I'll ask anyway.
After reading Steve's on clearance lights I went to replace the RF one on my GV as it was burned out. I also checked inside the front cabinet and found water from a heavy rain the night before.
The GV is really difficult to reach to marker lights above the WS. I Need to replace all the clearance lights as they are cracked and broken and LED's are in mind.
The Question .... Has any one with a GV figured out how to reach the center lights above the WS ? I can reach the outers from a ladder but the back angle makes it impossible to reach the center. At one time a tried lying ( Laying ) down on the roof to reach them but I am not as Young and agile as I used to be and this is not workable now.
Thanks for any workable suggestions.
Gary,
Have you considerd getting a ladder stabilizer attachment? I have one I purchased at Lowe's along with my step ladder. I think this may work.
http://compare.ebay.com/like/150443495601?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar (http://compare.ebay.com/like/150443495601?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar)
I bought a Werner aluminum ladder with the attachment for $100 at Lowe's.
Peter, The problem with this as I see it is that the ladder is at such a low angle that you would almost be laying on it to work AND the stabilizers would hold the ladder off the WS so far that very long arms would be needed to reach the lights. If anyone has been in NAC and seen techs work on these lights on a GV I'd like to see how they do it.
Gary, I watched them work on my windshield seal and putting my new member number and decal on my U225. They used construction type scaffolding on each side of the coach with 2 X 12 boards running across the front to stand on. That way the boards can be very close to the windshield and they can move from side to side without moving equipment. Worked great in the shop but not too practical for home use.
Really sounds like a good location for good LED clearance lights. That way you should never have to worry about them again.
Apparently you don't have hail the size of baseballs in NY. Ain't nothin that will withstand that impact. Remember, we are based in Oklahoma.
Kent, If all that suffers is clearance lights in an OKIE Hail storm you are fortunate. Another good reason to have a Fiberglas FT instead of a metal sided or roofed MH.
I am going to replace all clearance lights with LED's if I can figure out how to get to them safely.
Oh! did I forget to mention the skylight, both AC Covers, the refrigerator vent cover and the fantastic fan cover. It came to about $5,000 on the FT accessories and not a ding on the body. That hail did about $10,000 to the cars and $20,000 to the year old roof and gutters. We had a hail storm the year before that totaled out the house roof and swimming pool liner. However, we went 15 years without a claim before the first hail storm happened.
There is more than worrying about the WS with that ladder attachment. The WS slopes enough that the ladder would be at too great an angle to be safe, more than likely the feet would slip out unless you could stake it somehow. Since I have to work on my in front of my house on a concrete street that will not work, neither will the scaffolding as it would be in the middle of the street.
Engineers in the crowd, we need a solution!
Today I am going to try to replace the clearance lights with LED's. I have about given up on using a ladder as I worry about my new WS's, if ladder slips I could be in deep doodoo, Newest solution ( I think) is a foam rubber piece I salvaged from an old couch, I think I am going to lay it on the roof at the front and then lay ( lie ) down on it and see if I can reach the lights. I am not real confident when I am on the roof.
We were at Mustang Island and I discovered that the wood picnic table made an excellent and stable platform to stand on. DW and I just dragged the table to wherever I had to work. So finding a camp ground with moveable tables might work for you.
George, I have used picnic tables also in the past. My problem is the slant on the WS on a U280, the Bus types are easy to get to the front clearance lights but the GV's are the pits.
Home Depot sells a nice knockdown roll around four foot scaffold. That and a small two step ladder would work.
Several of the above comments mention changing the clearance lights over to LED lights. Is there any particular light that is suggested? And what is involved in changing them over?
Thank you very much.
Morris,
Start with the linked post, and go from there:
http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10778.msg51398#msg51398 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10778.msg51398#msg51398)
Thank you very much!! I will try to digest this in the near future. I think all of our lights are currently working. So it may be a preventive project.
Morris,
The main advantage of the upgrade to LED lights is that:
1. Much longer life span
2. Miniscule energy consumption...less drain on starting batteries
Surely someone else will add to my list, perhaps light quality may be better as well.
I am changing the clearance lights to LED's mainly because I should never have to put in another light bulb, the lights are difficult to reach and I am getting to the age that I would rather work up a sweat once to change them and then never do it again. I am using GROTE 47252 red and 47253 yellow.
On my 95 U280 the old lenses are faded and most are cracked from sun exposure in addition the sealant on the front cap was hardened and I was getting water in the cap under certain conditions.
( I still did not get it done t'day, chest cold intervened, I am going to try the Jack Black cure this evening ) >:(
Gary Bouland Wrote: I am changing the clearance lights to LED's mainly because I should never have to put in another light bulb... ( I still did not get it done t'day, chest cold intervened, I am going to try the Jack Black cure this evening ) :( "
Gary,
I myself use the George Dickel & Ginger Ale cure for those nasty chest colds... ;D
Get well soon...
Got it. That is a difficult situation. Rent a cherry picker? (grin)
Gary,
Did you find 2-wire LED's, or are you going with one-wire clearance lights? I ask because most of the LED's I have priced are one-wire, using the screws to ground the light when it screws into a metal base/frame. However, with our coaches being fiberglass, little metal is available to serve as a ground. I did find some LED clearance lights in 2 wire, but they cost $12+ each, and I have been a bit reluctant to shell out $120-150 for the amber and red LED's.
Were you able to find 2 wire LED's for less than $12/each?
Anyone else find a cheaper source?
Don, The GROTE lights I use are two wire with bullet connectors, I am adding a female connector at the coach wiring and then all I have to do is plug them in. Cost at local truck parts dealer was about 8 bucks each.
Good morning!
A couple of suggestions for accessing the front clearance lights from an old Rube Goldberg fan.
Option 1. For GV owners: Find a semi-trailer unloading dock. "Nose" up close to the dock. This reduces the reach distance. Might need a couple of skids or a short step ladder (leaned against the coach) to reach the lights.
Option 2. Use an extension ladder with a four foot outrigger/stabilizer bolted at right angles across the top of the ladder. Wrap the outrigger with old towels or blankets so you don't scratch the paint. Extend the ladder so the outrigger rests above the windshield and the ladder clears the front of your coach. The bottom of the ladder(on the side you are going to climb up) can be against a curb or a parking lot concrete stop or a building. You could even pull your toad up until the a-frame on the tow bar goes in above the bottom rung of the ladder. Use a ratchet strap with hook ends mounted thru the cable safety holes to pull the ladder in tight. Any of these methods will help prevent the ladder from sliding.
Nighthawk--(A Rube Goldberg Fan from way back) (also a retired INjuneer)
After some comments here and a little more study I RIGGED a ladder with standoffs to reach the clearance lights on my GV.
I do not recommend this method for many of us old farts, My legs are talking bad things to me t'nite, but it worked.
Angle of ladder was severe and probably not OSHA approved. I also found that there is little bracing behind front cap, I could actually see cap flex with my weight ( yeh I know my DW has been on me about my beer gut for years ).
here is the finished installation.
()
Bless FT and their construction methods, I found extra wire wire tied behind cap and was able to cut ties and pull enough additional wire to cut off ends and crimp on bullet connectors so that I could simply plug in new LED's. ( BTW New LED'S are polarity sensitive ). They were also generous with white caulking. I used POLYSEAMSEAL on the new lights.....So I am done with clearance lights for the rest of my life.
Thanks all for your suggestions. Like some one else said it always feel good to complete a job for a few bucks that would have cost hundreds in a shop.
Gary,
The new marker lights look great! Some of the attached pictures (I think) did not come through. Were these pictures of the ladder rigging?
OK, What am I doing wrong, no matter what I try I can only include one photo in a post ? Is this right or am I having a DA attacck ?()
Gary,
Your post now has the three pictures. I see you could do the ladder stabilizer route. I thought that might work with a little care being taken. Did you also replace the rear & side markers?
Peter, All have been replaced now except upper side rear markers, they are next.
Nighthawk,
Excellent suggestions. I can use my pickup truck to brace the bottom of the ladder. One of the things I have been trying to do is sand, buff and polish the front cap to keep white streaks off the windshield and I could not reach every thing from the roof.
Just changed my front top clearance lights to LED's after reading all the previous comments. Gary is right!! Definitely a pain in the posterior when working on a GV!! I did the center three lights by laying on the roof. DW insisted I switch to LEDs so I wouldn't have to ever have to do them again. She said I would be too old to do them the next time they needed replacing (slam??)
I got two wire, Four LED elements with the mounting holes on the same 3" centers as the old lights for $5.29 each at our local FLEET FARM store. They only had three so I have to wait for the next shipment to get the remaining two lights. I used Geocel Proflex RV Sealant under the lights--screw holes and wire holes. Geocel from our Kings Camper outlet here in Wausau WI.
nighthawk
Clearance Lights: I have to replace either complete fixture or replace bulb in two "brow" or "Forehead" clearance lights. At least one fixture has leaked a small amount and shorted the bulb.
I have always used Silicone Caulk and totally agree with the criticisms about how hard it is to remove, etc. I have recently seen recommendations for a product called Polyseam Seal (IIRC). Is this equivalent to Silicone for sealing from water intrusion, and/or any other suggestions?
FWIW/FYI Department: I was assured by the FOT Parts Department that these lights/fixtures were "exclusive" to Foretravel and that I would not be able to find them in a typical Parts Store. I ordered one from NAPA, Part # 18300Y, labeled from Truck Lite in Falconer, NY., price $4.29 plus tax. I don't (yet) have the Truck Lite part # to order on-line. I did order one from Foretravel and it is identical but did not include the sponge rubber gasket.
Sometimes I think that if I wanted to get fresh air I would be told that its is EXCLUSIVE to FT. :D
FWIW Clearance lites apparently come in different sizes, the ones on my 95 GV are 4 inches between screw holes and others I have seen are 3 inches between holes. Measure twice and cut once :)
When I replace mine I will replace them with Truck Lite 18090 yellow and 18050red led's.