Title: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: George Stoltz on September 30, 2010, 06:14:04 pm
Post by: George Stoltz on September 30, 2010, 06:14:04 pm
At our next campground we will be boon docking for 5 days. So we wanted to arrive with a full 110 gallons of fresh water.
We have suspected for some time that when we are filling and the gauge jumps to Full that there is room for more water.
Today we kept track of the amount of time that elapsed from when the needle hit Full and water stated to spill over the top. It was exactly 10 minutes. (Please note: this was a one-time experiment. We will not knowingly allow water to run down the bulkhead. Foretravel usually gets it right, but this overflow situation and placing 100 pound batteries in a near inaccessible location is hard to figure out.)
Now, to some that might be the impetus to get new gauges. For us it is just knowing how to live with the present gauges. We have other places where funds can be put to better use.
We have suspected for some time that when we are filling and the gauge jumps to Full that there is room for more water.
Today we kept track of the amount of time that elapsed from when the needle hit Full and water stated to spill over the top. It was exactly 10 minutes. (Please note: this was a one-time experiment. We will not knowingly allow water to run down the bulkhead. Foretravel usually gets it right, but this overflow situation and placing 100 pound batteries in a near inaccessible location is hard to figure out.)
Now, to some that might be the impetus to get new gauges. For us it is just knowing how to live with the present gauges. We have other places where funds can be put to better use.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Peter & Beth on September 30, 2010, 06:22:49 pm
Post by: Peter & Beth on September 30, 2010, 06:22:49 pm
George,
I have the same problem, and I've decided to live with the inaccuracy. But, try not to overflow the water tank unless you have an overflow pipe directly out of the utility bay. Remember that this practice can lead to bulkhead rusting bolts as the stagnant water in the bay eventually goes out the bulkhead joint.
I have the same problem, and I've decided to live with the inaccuracy. But, try not to overflow the water tank unless you have an overflow pipe directly out of the utility bay. Remember that this practice can lead to bulkhead rusting bolts as the stagnant water in the bay eventually goes out the bulkhead joint.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: George Stoltz on September 30, 2010, 06:26:43 pm
Post by: George Stoltz on September 30, 2010, 06:26:43 pm
Right. We know all about that. We have had our bulkheads beefed up with more bolts and then undercoated.
We will most likely be happy with just five more minutes of fill time going forward. This was a one-time experiment.
We will most likely be happy with just five more minutes of fill time going forward. This was a one-time experiment.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: hotonthetrail on September 30, 2010, 06:47:30 pm
Post by: hotonthetrail on September 30, 2010, 06:47:30 pm
I installed a digital flow meter in the shore water source line. jc
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Peter & Beth on September 30, 2010, 06:56:02 pm
Post by: Peter & Beth on September 30, 2010, 06:56:02 pm
I installed a digital flow meter in the shore water source line. jc
Thanks! You get an at-a-boy applause
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Two Hams in a Can on September 30, 2010, 07:11:35 pm
Post by: Two Hams in a Can on September 30, 2010, 07:11:35 pm
Well. . .our tank has an overflow tube that rises about 2" above the exit hole, and runs down to the bottom of the bay. We usually watch the water level through the translucent tank wall; and, turn off the water fill just when the water reaches the tube. We also have a black mark indicating the full level on the back side of the freshwater tank seen in the power cord bay. Love "The Burrow".
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: wayne m on September 30, 2010, 09:16:30 pm
Post by: wayne m on September 30, 2010, 09:16:30 pm
how can running a little clean fresh water out of the overflow and down onto the bulkhead area
even come close to competing with the damage done by the amount of dirty, oily, salty, road grime infested water that the bulkhead area would experience when driving a few miles in the rain?
even come close to competing with the damage done by the amount of dirty, oily, salty, road grime infested water that the bulkhead area would experience when driving a few miles in the rain?
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Peter & Beth on September 30, 2010, 09:19:38 pm
Post by: Peter & Beth on September 30, 2010, 09:19:38 pm
Wayne,
The answer is metallurgy & chemistry. Metals and water are not friends.
Although all sorts of coatings have been developed to combat the chemical interaction (ions, and so forth), time has a way of degrading even the best of coatings w/o maintenance.
The answer is metallurgy & chemistry. Metals and water are not friends.
Although all sorts of coatings have been developed to combat the chemical interaction (ions, and so forth), time has a way of degrading even the best of coatings w/o maintenance.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: George Stoltz on September 30, 2010, 09:24:13 pm
Post by: George Stoltz on September 30, 2010, 09:24:13 pm
I installed a digital flow meter in the shore water source line. jc
Tell us more. Where did you get the meter? How was it installed? How about one or two photos.
Finally, for the meter to be effective, don't you have to know how much water you have used since the last fill up?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Felix and Gail on September 30, 2010, 09:40:02 pm
Post by: Felix and Gail on September 30, 2010, 09:40:02 pm
I removed the panel above the electric and water reels and can watch the water level and shut off water when tank is full without overflowing.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: George Stoltz on September 30, 2010, 09:42:21 pm
Post by: George Stoltz on September 30, 2010, 09:42:21 pm
Felix,
I will take a look at mine and see if I can do the same. There are so many good suggestions here. Thank you for your tip.
I will take a look at mine and see if I can do the same. There are so many good suggestions here. Thank you for your tip.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Peter & Beth on September 30, 2010, 09:43:10 pm
Post by: Peter & Beth on September 30, 2010, 09:43:10 pm
George,
I forgot to mention that driving with a full tank of water is something I never do. Although the storage, utility, fuel compartment design is meant to handle these additional 900 pounds of water, it's just that much more weight which increases fuel consumption and adds needless stress on the bukhead area.
I forgot to mention that driving with a full tank of water is something I never do. Although the storage, utility, fuel compartment design is meant to handle these additional 900 pounds of water, it's just that much more weight which increases fuel consumption and adds needless stress on the bukhead area.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: J. D. Stevens on September 30, 2010, 10:25:42 pm
Post by: J. D. Stevens on September 30, 2010, 10:25:42 pm
We installed a reverse osmosis filter system for all water going into the fresh water tank. Part of the system is a float switch that I installed at the water line for a full tank. The float switch is simple to install. Pictures are here: 
One could connect such a float switch to an electrically controlled valve or to a lamp to indicate a full tank. On our system, the float switch controls the RO pressure pump and a valve in the supply line.
I found the water level for a full tank by filling the tank to the point of overflow, and making a mark on the tank a bit below the water line that I could see through the translucent tank. I drilled a hole at the appropriate level and installed the float switch at the appropriate level. I have been pleased with the performance of the float switch in controlling the filling of our fresh water tank.
One could connect such a float switch to an electrically controlled valve or to a lamp to indicate a full tank. On our system, the float switch controls the RO pressure pump and a valve in the supply line.
I found the water level for a full tank by filling the tank to the point of overflow, and making a mark on the tank a bit below the water line that I could see through the translucent tank. I drilled a hole at the appropriate level and installed the float switch at the appropriate level. I have been pleased with the performance of the float switch in controlling the filling of our fresh water tank.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Gregory Jones on September 30, 2010, 10:45:05 pm
Post by: Gregory Jones on September 30, 2010, 10:45:05 pm
Agreed, overflowing 10,000 gallons of drinking water (potable) would have a slight effect compared to 50 miles in a rain soaked road after a dry spell (dropped oils and chemicals on the road) or driving in the first spring rain after winter salt use.
Greg
1995'280 se
Greg
1995'280 se
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: John S on October 02, 2010, 09:48:18 am
Post by: John S on October 02, 2010, 09:48:18 am
George,
I forgot to mention that driving with a full tank of water is something I never do. Although the storage, utility, fuel compartment design is meant to handle these additional 900 pounds of water, it's just that much more weight which increases fuel consumption and adds needless stress on the bulkhead area.
Well, I for one always drive with a full tank of water. I was glad I had it if you were to break down or get stranded. I had a full take of water and was going to St Louis and Branson five years ago around Thanksgiving. I was forced to stop in a flying J with the out side water turned off for three days. It was ok as I had my water tank filled and we rode out the storm and the snow melted and was plowed and we left 3 days later. We were not the only ones surprised by it either. It was hot the day before and the thunderstorms caused me to stop early and I was glad I did.
I also was in Texas and got a call my mother in law was sick and not doing well. We went to AZ and she passed. I filled with water because in March there is no open water faucets in Iowa and they had a big blizzard and it delayed me a week.
It is not a huge difference in fuel mileage and weight. I would fill up a full tank and drive and that way you have your house ready to live in if you need it.
Just my opinion and I do not travel from campground to campground but rather use walmarts, truck stops and rest areas to spend the night on the way to a location.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: wolfe10 on October 02, 2010, 10:01:22 am
Post by: wolfe10 on October 02, 2010, 10:01:22 am
Agreed, overflowing 10,000 gallons of drinking water (potable) would have a slight effect compared to 50 miles in a rain soaked road after a dry spell (dropped oils and chemicals on the road) or driving in the first spring rain after winter salt use.
Greg
1995'280 se
So any water that does get in there STAYS in there on the bare metal box beam.
If I had an overflow that exited into the wet bay (ours doesn't-- it vents externally) I would drill a hole in the basement (use a magnet to locate and avoid any of the beams) and extend the vent to below the coach floor where overflow would be harmless.
Brett Wolfe
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 10:13:51 am
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 10:13:51 am
Quote
I for one always drive with a full tank of water. I was glad I had it if you were to break down or get stranded.
I would fill up a full tank and drive and that way you have your house ready to live in if you need it.
Just my opinion and I do not travel from campground to campground but rather use walmarts, truck stops and rest areas to spend the night on the way to a location.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: George Stoltz on October 02, 2010, 12:35:22 pm
Post by: George Stoltz on October 02, 2010, 12:35:22 pm
George,
I forgot to mention that driving with a full tank of water is something I never do. Although the storage, utility, fuel compartment design is meant to handle these additional 900 pounds of water, it's just that much more weight which increases fuel consumption and adds needless stress on the bukhead area.
Our most recent trip involved going to a location where we would be without water for five days and so we filled out water tank to the very top. Most of the time we travel with at least a half a tank of water or more. We have arrived at campgrounds only to find out that there was no shore water. So we do travel with a decent amount of water in our tanks.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Gregory Jones on October 02, 2010, 12:51:52 pm
Post by: Gregory Jones on October 02, 2010, 12:51:52 pm
I must have either a complete different setup, or am missing something. Fresh potable drinking water has little effect on metal, infact if you submerge (and keep it so) metal in fresh water it will last as long as the same metal exposed to the air and elements. As you drive, the tires pick up water and it gets slung into the bulkhead by the centrifugal force of the tires. The water then evaporates leaving any salts and chemicals behind. Then corrosion starts and rust jacking occurs and the seam widens and the process feeds itself. Having operated many vessels in salt water, the key to longevity is flushing every nook and cranny with fresh water when arriving from a trip. The fresh water does not cause the corrosion, the salts left from an improper washdown do. On our rig, the overflow is o. The right side, top of the tank and the water spills down the bulkhead just forward of the tires, the overflow is not what causes the corrosion. However since the road salts are left when the rain water evaporates. The introduction of new water may restart the electrolysis process of the old salts. Since the fresh water overflow is completly exposed to air, the water only touches a small area of the bulkhead, the suspension and a section of the angle iron below. It is not trapped or contained inside any area. The prior owner of our coach let it overflow many times, I let it pour out till I turn it off. I regularly fresh water wash the whole underside including all the brake and suspension components, whithout fail the next day after driving in rain.
It is a similar situation as would be experienced if you drive your car in the snow and encounter salted roads and slush. The worse thing you can do is store that salt laden vehicle directly in your garage without a complete fresh water flushing as the road salts corrode metal faster in a warm garage environment than they would had you left the car outside.
Immediatly after a long trip, or after driving in rain or snow we always fresh water wash the undersides of our cars. At 5 years old or more, the undersides and suspension of my cars looks exactly as it did when new, rust and corrosion free.
The bottom line is that the fresh water is not the cause of corrosion in itself. The salts trapped from road splash, and left after the water evaporated are.
Greg
1995 280 se
It is a similar situation as would be experienced if you drive your car in the snow and encounter salted roads and slush. The worse thing you can do is store that salt laden vehicle directly in your garage without a complete fresh water flushing as the road salts corrode metal faster in a warm garage environment than they would had you left the car outside.
Immediatly after a long trip, or after driving in rain or snow we always fresh water wash the undersides of our cars. At 5 years old or more, the undersides and suspension of my cars looks exactly as it did when new, rust and corrosion free.
The bottom line is that the fresh water is not the cause of corrosion in itself. The salts trapped from road splash, and left after the water evaporated are.
Greg
1995 280 se
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: George Stoltz on October 02, 2010, 04:14:23 pm
Post by: George Stoltz on October 02, 2010, 04:14:23 pm
Brett,
This is not clear to me. When we filled our tank to overflowing, maybe a quart of water ran onto the ground before we got it shut off. Does this mean that some water is now sitting on the fiberglass sheet that covers a portion of the coach bottom?
This is not clear to me. When we filled our tank to overflowing, maybe a quart of water ran onto the ground before we got it shut off. Does this mean that some water is now sitting on the fiberglass sheet that covers a portion of the coach bottom?
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: wolfe10 on October 02, 2010, 04:21:45 pm
Post by: wolfe10 on October 02, 2010, 04:21:45 pm
George,
If the water came out of a hose that exited under the FG floor, no worries.
If that water spilled into the wet bay and then flowed out, any water that sat in the wet bay can potentially leak down to the bulkhead area which is immediately behind and below the floor to the wet bay. The only thing keeping it out of the bulkhead area is chalking where the rear wall meets the floor of the wet bay. And, after all those years in there, I am not sure I would trust caulking to protect that area.
Again, if the potable water tank overflow doesn't currently exit to the outside/below the coach, I would sure spend the time and (little) money to extend it.
Brett
If the water came out of a hose that exited under the FG floor, no worries.
If that water spilled into the wet bay and then flowed out, any water that sat in the wet bay can potentially leak down to the bulkhead area which is immediately behind and below the floor to the wet bay. The only thing keeping it out of the bulkhead area is chalking where the rear wall meets the floor of the wet bay. And, after all those years in there, I am not sure I would trust caulking to protect that area.
Again, if the potable water tank overflow doesn't currently exit to the outside/below the coach, I would sure spend the time and (little) money to extend it.
Brett
Brett,
This is not clear to me. When we filled our tank to overflowing, maybe a quart of water ran onto the ground before we got it shut off. Does this mean that some water is now sitting on the fiberglass sheet that covers a portion of the coach bottom?
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Gregory Jones on October 02, 2010, 04:53:16 pm
Post by: Gregory Jones on October 02, 2010, 04:53:16 pm
Not likely, the overflow (typically) exits to an open air space, not into a compartment or enclosed area. It just runs down the outside. Much like your ac condenser has a drain outside your house.
Greg
Greg
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Peter & Beth on October 02, 2010, 05:28:45 pm
Post by: Peter & Beth on October 02, 2010, 05:28:45 pm
It's not clear to me how the rear utility compartment is layed out as I've never had any of the panels removed either on the street side or the curb side. But, I was under the impression that the utility bay compartment has a water proof seal on the inside of the compartment at the rear most bulkhead.
I'm also not sure where the fresh tank overflow opening is located. I assumed at the top of the tank. Therefore, I assumed that the water overflow would just run off the top then along the sides of the tank and then out the sides of the compartment, or out a broken area of sealer caulk in the bulkhead area.
Does anyone know for sure?
I'm also not sure where the fresh tank overflow opening is located. I assumed at the top of the tank. Therefore, I assumed that the water overflow would just run off the top then along the sides of the tank and then out the sides of the compartment, or out a broken area of sealer caulk in the bulkhead area.
Does anyone know for sure?
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: George Stoltz on October 02, 2010, 05:41:34 pm
Post by: George Stoltz on October 02, 2010, 05:41:34 pm
Excellent question, Peter.
Now that it is accepted fact that we (the ForeForum) does so much for Foretravel, it owuld be nice if they would chime in here once in a while and answer some of these questions that keeping being asked.
n fact, I think I will make a new topic about that.
Now that it is accepted fact that we (the ForeForum) does so much for Foretravel, it owuld be nice if they would chime in here once in a while and answer some of these questions that keeping being asked.
n fact, I think I will make a new topic about that.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: wolfe10 on October 02, 2010, 05:52:09 pm
Post by: wolfe10 on October 02, 2010, 05:52:09 pm
I can tell you for a FACT that on the older Unihomes like ours, the potable water tank overflow is connected to a hose that exits the coach.
And as I posted above, I would not count on 10 year old caulking between rear vertical wall and basement floor to keep standing water out leaking down into the bulkhead area. I can tell you for a fact that it may not-- based on seeing the damage done to the rear bulkhead by water leaks into the wet bay on coaches I have inspected. I can not tell you the source of the water I saw in these coaches-- it certainly could have had other sources than the overflow.
So, let me suggest that before we go too much further with this discussion, let's have someone who has first hand knowledge of the routing of the overflow on Unicoaches from the potable water tank tell us if this is a non-problem (overflow routed through hose to outside coach), an easily solved problem (extend existing hose through basement floor), etc. Speculation won't do us much good.
Brett Wolfe
And as I posted above, I would not count on 10 year old caulking between rear vertical wall and basement floor to keep standing water out leaking down into the bulkhead area. I can tell you for a fact that it may not-- based on seeing the damage done to the rear bulkhead by water leaks into the wet bay on coaches I have inspected. I can not tell you the source of the water I saw in these coaches-- it certainly could have had other sources than the overflow.
So, let me suggest that before we go too much further with this discussion, let's have someone who has first hand knowledge of the routing of the overflow on Unicoaches from the potable water tank tell us if this is a non-problem (overflow routed through hose to outside coach), an easily solved problem (extend existing hose through basement floor), etc. Speculation won't do us much good.
Brett Wolfe
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 05:55:28 pm
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 05:55:28 pm
Quote
I'm also not sure where the fresh tank overflow opening is located. I assumed at the top of the tank. Therefore, I assumed that the water overflow would just run off the top then along the sides of the tank and then out the sides of the compartment,
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 06:10:52 pm
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 06:10:52 pm
Quote
Fresh potable drinking water has little effect on metal, infact if you submerge (and keep it so) metal in fresh water it will last as long as the same metal exposed to the air and elements.
Below are photos of a fresh water leak damage to the bulkhead.
My second bulkhead repair.
The entire area was rusted out and replaced by Foretravel.
40 hours of labor.
The leak was caused by a loose fitting on a permanent water filter I had them install and the water must have settled in that area of the bulkhead.
The last photo is the repair. Great job on the repair and should last my lifetime.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Peter & Beth on October 02, 2010, 06:39:01 pm
Post by: Peter & Beth on October 02, 2010, 06:39:01 pm
Barry,
Thanks for the posts. You're scaring the begeezuz out of me. I'll have to get under behind the duallies to see if there is such an outlet for the water tank back there. Somehow I don't hold much hope for that modification as Forrest was built in 1997 and I think Foretravel was oblivious to the bulkhead issue and did not make any improvements until much later.
I could be wrong...I'll report back tomorrow once I take a look under there.
Thanks for the posts. You're scaring the begeezuz out of me. I'll have to get under behind the duallies to see if there is such an outlet for the water tank back there. Somehow I don't hold much hope for that modification as Forrest was built in 1997 and I think Foretravel was oblivious to the bulkhead issue and did not make any improvements until much later.
I could be wrong...I'll report back tomorrow once I take a look under there.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: wolfe10 on October 02, 2010, 06:42:28 pm
Post by: wolfe10 on October 02, 2010, 06:42:28 pm
Barry,
Thanks for the photos of how the overflow DOES exit the wet bay (as it should) vs dumping into the wet bay. FACTS always overcome speculation!
And, like you, I have also seen a lot of damage done by fresh water to unprotected iron and steel.
Brett Wolfe
Thanks for the photos of how the overflow DOES exit the wet bay (as it should) vs dumping into the wet bay. FACTS always overcome speculation!
And, like you, I have also seen a lot of damage done by fresh water to unprotected iron and steel.
Brett Wolfe
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 07:05:25 pm
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 07:05:25 pm
Quote
You're scaring the begeezuz out of me. I'll have to get under behind the duallies to see if there is such an outlet for the water tank back there.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 07:14:52 pm
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 07:14:52 pm
Quote
If the potable water tank overflow doesn't currently exit to the outside/below the coach, I would sure spend the time and (little) money to extend it.
After what I have seen it just ain't worth the risk :o
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Michelle on October 02, 2010, 07:16:12 pm
Post by: Michelle on October 02, 2010, 07:16:12 pm
No need to worry because now you are aware of a potential issue and you can address it before you have a problem.
Barry,
What are the signs one needs to look for? It looks like the bottom plate is removed for your photos, so much of that structure isn't normally visible for quick inspection. Does the rust/damage present itself at the bulkhead?
Michelle
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Peter & Beth on October 02, 2010, 07:21:19 pm
Post by: Peter & Beth on October 02, 2010, 07:21:19 pm
Barry,
I would worry about road "stuff" somehow migrating to the fresh water tank. How is this opening in such a spot kept from potentially contaminating the fresh water tank?
The above is the reason I always thought the venting of the tank was inside the coach bay and not the exterior environment...
I would worry about road "stuff" somehow migrating to the fresh water tank. How is this opening in such a spot kept from potentially contaminating the fresh water tank?
The above is the reason I always thought the venting of the tank was inside the coach bay and not the exterior environment...
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 07:26:43 pm
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 07:26:43 pm
Quote
I would worry about road "stuff" somehow migrating to the fresh water tank. How is this opening in such a spot kept from potentially contaminating the fresh water tank?
I will have a fitting on the end that is angling to the rear so hopefully it will be difficult for anything to even begin to contaminate..
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Peter & Beth on October 02, 2010, 07:39:01 pm
Post by: Peter & Beth on October 02, 2010, 07:39:01 pm
QuoteI would worry about road "stuff" somehow migrating to the fresh water tank. How is this opening in such a spot kept from potentially contaminating the fresh water tank?I don't think any road stuff will climb 2 feet up and 3 feet across into the tank.
I will have a fitting on the end that is angling to the rear so hopefully it will be difficult for anything to even begin to contaminate..
How about a removable cap that you can easily access when you need to remove it when you want to overfill. Perhaps the cap can have an opening and an insert of a filter like material that still allows for pressure equalization as the water is drawn out of the tank?
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: George Stoltz on October 02, 2010, 11:08:54 pm
Post by: George Stoltz on October 02, 2010, 11:08:54 pm
Barry,
I can't find the photo. And, I've been meaning to ask you a question. When I try to do a search of your website (even with the box checked to search only your website) I always am taken to a Google search.
What am I doing wrong?
I can't find the photo. And, I've been meaning to ask you a question. When I try to do a search of your website (even with the box checked to search only your website) I always am taken to a Google search.
What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 11:12:33 pm
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 11:12:33 pm
Quote
I can't find the photo.
Quote
When I try to do a search of your website (even with the box checked to search only your website) I always am taken to a Google search.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: George Stoltz on October 02, 2010, 11:23:52 pm
Post by: George Stoltz on October 02, 2010, 11:23:52 pm
The photo showing the overflow hose from your fresh water tank
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 11:26:32 pm
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 11:26:32 pm
Quote
The photo showing the overflow hose from your fresh water tank
Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10840.msg52255#msg52255)
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: George Stoltz on October 02, 2010, 11:36:35 pm
Post by: George Stoltz on October 02, 2010, 11:36:35 pm
Is that a factory install or did you add the overflow hose?
BTW. Good photos.
BTW. Good photos.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 11:37:55 pm
Post by: Barry Beam on October 02, 2010, 11:37:55 pm
Quote
Is that a factory install or did you add the overflow hose?
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: nitehawk on October 06, 2010, 09:05:35 pm
Post by: nitehawk on October 06, 2010, 09:05:35 pm
Hi George,
For what it is worth---not being familiar with exactly how the overflow drains are configured let me explain how I set up my last rig.
I used two 90 degree shutoff valves like those found at rv dumpstations. I put a drain hose and valve on the vent located near the top of the tank. When water started to run out this hose I closed the valve and let the shorehose keep running. The second hose and valve I elevated above the top of the tank and used as an air intake so the tank wouldn't collapse from the suction when the pump was used. I did close the valve when water started coming out this hose but made sure to open it when we camped. This method insured that we had a full tank of water at the start. Possibly routing the hoses might let you attain a max fill without water spilling in unwanted places. Another possibility is to have the compartment open and the hoses long enough that they are outside the coach while filling.
Nighthawk
For what it is worth---not being familiar with exactly how the overflow drains are configured let me explain how I set up my last rig.
I used two 90 degree shutoff valves like those found at rv dumpstations. I put a drain hose and valve on the vent located near the top of the tank. When water started to run out this hose I closed the valve and let the shorehose keep running. The second hose and valve I elevated above the top of the tank and used as an air intake so the tank wouldn't collapse from the suction when the pump was used. I did close the valve when water started coming out this hose but made sure to open it when we camped. This method insured that we had a full tank of water at the start. Possibly routing the hoses might let you attain a max fill without water spilling in unwanted places. Another possibility is to have the compartment open and the hoses long enough that they are outside the coach while filling.
Nighthawk
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: amos.harrison on October 06, 2010, 09:39:35 pm
Post by: amos.harrison on October 06, 2010, 09:39:35 pm
On my coach the fresh water tank overflows through a hose that ends externally, high in front of the curb-side drive tires.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Neal Pillsbury on October 17, 2010, 11:45:59 pm
Post by: Neal Pillsbury on October 17, 2010, 11:45:59 pm
All,
A week and a half ago, when this was a "HOT" topic, I noticed a small puddle in my hot water/ water pump bay. That turned out to be just one of the two PEX fittings on the rear of the Propane/Electric Hot Water Heater Tank that needed snugging up.
But I resolved to take some pictures to show how the fresh water overflow is configured in a '98 U270 Unicoach. The '98 U270 fresh water tank is inboard of the (curbside) hot water heater and the overflow hose exits near the top of the freshwater tank. It then travels in a short length of hose to a sealed exit hole through the aft bulkhead, just forward of the curbside drive wheels, shock and (forward) airbag. Although I've not had my hot water heater out, I'm sure that inside the water compartment, mine looks just like Barry Leavitt's pictures:
The additional pictures below, show my overflow hose configuration, on the outside of the bulkhead. The exit hole is in a high and very hard to reach area, barely an inch forward of the airbag. The outfall opening is guarded by a protective cover that is pop riveted to the bulkhead. It stands about one half inch off of the bulkhead. Thus, one can immediately see the wisdom in Barry Leavitt's decision to extend his overflow hose through the forward water compartment (divider) bulkhead and then exit the hose through the floor of the water manifold compartment. It would not be reasonably possible to extend the overflow hose in the original cramped area. Thus, be aware that in a '98 U270, at least, it would behoove you to time any overflow hose extension project with a water heater assembly removal project.
Thought that this may be of help to someone, to have this in our files.
Regards,
Neal
PS: The day these pictures were taken, we lost our all time favorite 2000 Honda Odyssey to a transmission failure.....again........So we are now totally divorced from Honda Odysseys (long story). Anyway, we've been tied up with car problems. Sorry. Otherwise, I would have gotten this posted sooner.
A week and a half ago, when this was a "HOT" topic, I noticed a small puddle in my hot water/ water pump bay. That turned out to be just one of the two PEX fittings on the rear of the Propane/Electric Hot Water Heater Tank that needed snugging up.
But I resolved to take some pictures to show how the fresh water overflow is configured in a '98 U270 Unicoach. The '98 U270 fresh water tank is inboard of the (curbside) hot water heater and the overflow hose exits near the top of the freshwater tank. It then travels in a short length of hose to a sealed exit hole through the aft bulkhead, just forward of the curbside drive wheels, shock and (forward) airbag. Although I've not had my hot water heater out, I'm sure that inside the water compartment, mine looks just like Barry Leavitt's pictures:
The additional pictures below, show my overflow hose configuration, on the outside of the bulkhead. The exit hole is in a high and very hard to reach area, barely an inch forward of the airbag. The outfall opening is guarded by a protective cover that is pop riveted to the bulkhead. It stands about one half inch off of the bulkhead. Thus, one can immediately see the wisdom in Barry Leavitt's decision to extend his overflow hose through the forward water compartment (divider) bulkhead and then exit the hose through the floor of the water manifold compartment. It would not be reasonably possible to extend the overflow hose in the original cramped area. Thus, be aware that in a '98 U270, at least, it would behoove you to time any overflow hose extension project with a water heater assembly removal project.
Thought that this may be of help to someone, to have this in our files.
Regards,
Neal
PS: The day these pictures were taken, we lost our all time favorite 2000 Honda Odyssey to a transmission failure.....again........So we are now totally divorced from Honda Odysseys (long story). Anyway, we've been tied up with car problems. Sorry. Otherwise, I would have gotten this posted sooner.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Barry Beam on October 18, 2010, 12:03:23 am
Post by: Barry Beam on October 18, 2010, 12:03:23 am
Quote
How about a removable cap that you can easily access when you need to remove it when you want to overfill. Perhaps the cap can have an opening and an insert of a filter like material that still allows for pressure equalization as the water is drawn out of the tank?
Here is a photo of Barry Leavitts rerouted water overflow screen that I took this week.
After a long parlay over a soda we agreed it probably is not necessary ??? 8)
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Peter & Beth on October 18, 2010, 08:41:08 am
Post by: Peter & Beth on October 18, 2010, 08:41:08 am
Barry,
Thanks for the update of Barry L's conversion. I too could not find the tank overflow on my coach with just a cursory "looksee". I just do not overflow the water tank now for the past 3 years, just to be safe. Somehow, I think the damage is done and waiting for repair.
Thanks for the update of Barry L's conversion. I too could not find the tank overflow on my coach with just a cursory "looksee". I just do not overflow the water tank now for the past 3 years, just to be safe. Somehow, I think the damage is done and waiting for repair.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Neal Pillsbury on October 18, 2010, 12:28:39 pm
Post by: Neal Pillsbury on October 18, 2010, 12:28:39 pm
Peter,
I would be willing to bet that your overflow configuration and mine (and Barry Leavitt's original) were all identical. In fact, because Brett's '99 overflow exits in the same area, it may be that '96 through 2000 non-slide FT's are all the same.
For those of us with propane/electric hot water units, the internal overflow plumbing access is much more difficult, because the heater must be removed in order to gain access to the internal overflow connections (to the tank and bulkhead). To see the external exit point, you have to lay under the coach, in order to see up behind the curbside drive-wheels airbag.
One thing that I don't see being considered here is the effect of coach movement. Those of us that have followed FT's (at least of the '96 to 2000 vintage) down the highway know that on sharp left hand turns, FT's are prone to leave a trail of water as they go around the corner. That's particularly true for those (like me) that like to start our travels with a full or near full tank of fresh water when we have access to reliable, chlorinated water at our trip departure point. Before I started doing that, I got caught short too many times with unanticipated changes in plans and then we had to ration water or spend a lot of wasted energy looking for it.
It appears to me that if the FW tank is within 6 to 8 inches of being full, because the FW tank is not baffled and because (for '98 U270's at least) our overflow connection is on the side of the tank (even though it is high), when we go around a sharp left hand turn, even slowly........... like at a four way intersection, the water "piles" to that corner and anoints our surroundings (and bulkhead joints) with a new dose of FW overflow. I've travelled in FT groups where this went on over a hundred miles in a day (like travelling in a group from a FT pre-Rally to an FMCA Rally where there was not going to be any FW available for several days). Every left hand corner produced "water trails" that looked like tens of gallons of water each, but was more likely a few quarts each, if even that.
At any rate, when I have the opportunity, I intend to do what Barry did and extend my overflow line down below the coach substructure, just to better preserve my bulkhead joint. I know that my bulkhead joint problem progressed rapidly during a wet summer in New England. I strongly agree that rust jacking only needs three elements to advance in our bulkheads (the presence of interstitial chlorides, moisture and oxygen). Take away any one of the three and it stops. We can't take (all) of the chlorides out of the metal lattice structure once they are there, but we can starve them of oxygen with good surface prep and coatings and we can minimize any unnecessary wetting down of the bulkhead joint.
FWIW,
Neal
I would be willing to bet that your overflow configuration and mine (and Barry Leavitt's original) were all identical. In fact, because Brett's '99 overflow exits in the same area, it may be that '96 through 2000 non-slide FT's are all the same.
For those of us with propane/electric hot water units, the internal overflow plumbing access is much more difficult, because the heater must be removed in order to gain access to the internal overflow connections (to the tank and bulkhead). To see the external exit point, you have to lay under the coach, in order to see up behind the curbside drive-wheels airbag.
One thing that I don't see being considered here is the effect of coach movement. Those of us that have followed FT's (at least of the '96 to 2000 vintage) down the highway know that on sharp left hand turns, FT's are prone to leave a trail of water as they go around the corner. That's particularly true for those (like me) that like to start our travels with a full or near full tank of fresh water when we have access to reliable, chlorinated water at our trip departure point. Before I started doing that, I got caught short too many times with unanticipated changes in plans and then we had to ration water or spend a lot of wasted energy looking for it.
It appears to me that if the FW tank is within 6 to 8 inches of being full, because the FW tank is not baffled and because (for '98 U270's at least) our overflow connection is on the side of the tank (even though it is high), when we go around a sharp left hand turn, even slowly........... like at a four way intersection, the water "piles" to that corner and anoints our surroundings (and bulkhead joints) with a new dose of FW overflow. I've travelled in FT groups where this went on over a hundred miles in a day (like travelling in a group from a FT pre-Rally to an FMCA Rally where there was not going to be any FW available for several days). Every left hand corner produced "water trails" that looked like tens of gallons of water each, but was more likely a few quarts each, if even that.
At any rate, when I have the opportunity, I intend to do what Barry did and extend my overflow line down below the coach substructure, just to better preserve my bulkhead joint. I know that my bulkhead joint problem progressed rapidly during a wet summer in New England. I strongly agree that rust jacking only needs three elements to advance in our bulkheads (the presence of interstitial chlorides, moisture and oxygen). Take away any one of the three and it stops. We can't take (all) of the chlorides out of the metal lattice structure once they are there, but we can starve them of oxygen with good surface prep and coatings and we can minimize any unnecessary wetting down of the bulkhead joint.
FWIW,
Neal
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: George Stoltz on October 18, 2010, 12:41:48 pm
Post by: George Stoltz on October 18, 2010, 12:41:48 pm
This is one of those situations where I think Foretravel should step up to the plate and offer to fix this PROBLEM at cost. I don't want something for nothing, I would just like to see them own up to a bad design.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on October 18, 2010, 12:47:02 pm
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on October 18, 2010, 12:47:02 pm
Several years ago when I was making one of the first trips in my 95 as I rounded a curve from one Interstate to another to the left the truck driver behind me began to flash his lights and weave back and forth to get my attention. On the CB he told me that I had just blown a RR tire. When I pulled over I found nothing. Apparently in the low light conditions when the overflow dumped water on the tire it created what he thought was a cloud like that of a blown tire. I then knew what the overflow would look like on a FT.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Peter & Beth on October 18, 2010, 02:03:43 pm
Post by: Peter & Beth on October 18, 2010, 02:03:43 pm
Peter,
I would be willing to bet that your overflow configuration and mine (and Barry Leavitt's original) were all identical. In fact, because Brett's '99 overflow exits in the same area, it may be that '96 through 2000 non-slide FT's are all the same.
For those of us with propane/electric hot water units, the internal overflow plumbing access is much more difficult, because the heater must be removed in order to gain access to the internal overflow connections (to the tank and bulkhead). To see the external exit point, you have to lay under the coach, in order to see up behind the curbside drive-wheels airbag.
One thing that I don't see being considered here is the effect of coach movement. Those of us that have followed FT's (at least of the '96 to 2000 vintage) down the highway know that on sharp left hand turns, FT's are prone to leave a trail of water as they go around the corner. That's particularly true for those (like me) that like to start our travels with a full or near full tank of fresh water when we have access to reliable, chlorinated water at our trip departure point. Before I started doing that, I got caught short too many times with unanticipated changes in plans and then we had to ration water or spend a lot of wasted energy looking for it.
It appears to me that if the FW tank is within 6 to 8 inches of being full, because the FW tank is not baffled and because (for '98 U270's at least) our overflow connection is on the side of the tank (even though it is high), when we go around a sharp left hand turn, even slowly........... like at a four way intersection, the water "piles" to that corner and anoints our surroundings (and bulkhead joints) with a new dose of FW overflow. I've travelled in FT groups where this went on over a hundred miles in a day (like travelling in a group from a FT pre-Rally to an FMCA Rally where there was not going to be any FW available for several days). Every left hand corner produced "water trails" that looked like tens of gallons of water each, but was more likely a few quarts each, if even that.
At any rate, when I have the opportunity, I intend to do what Barry did and extend my overflow line down below the coach substructure, just to better preserve my bulkhead joint. I know that my bulkhead joint problem progressed rapidly during a wet summer in New England. I strongly agree that rust jacking only needs three elements to advance in our bulkheads (the presence of interstitial chlorides, moisture and oxygen). Take away any one of the three and it stops. We can't take (all) of the chlorides out of the metal lattice structure once they are there, but we can starve them of oxygen with good surface prep and coatings and we can minimize any unnecessary wetting down of the bulkhead joint.
FWIW,
Neal
Thank you for the details. I can attest to your findings on rust jacking as my bulkead separation, although slight at about 1/8 inch for about 18 inches, is all on the passenger side exactly where this FW overflow would be.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Dwayne on October 21, 2010, 02:55:56 pm
Post by: Dwayne on October 21, 2010, 02:55:56 pm
I can testify to fresh water leaking into a compartment doing damage at bulkhead. Previous owner allowed a bad check valve at fresh water connection to gush water every time into the water/electric/sewer compartment every time the water hose was disconnected. The aft end of this compartment is over the bulkhead joint. Water would also migrate across the coach to the compartment directly opposite containing the batteries. No damage there but it is apparent that water was running and sitting there. I recently had the pleasure of meeting Brett and Diane Wolfe and he looked at it and told me how to repair it. I don't think I have the classic separation just a rust jacking situation. It isn't bad but it is without doubt because of having repeated episodes of a small gush of fresh water in that compartment...and that water had to go someplace. Water anywhere it isn't supposed to be is almost always a problem.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on October 21, 2010, 09:34:40 pm
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on October 21, 2010, 09:34:40 pm
Wish you guys had not started on water overflow.
Filled tank y'day and cut it off just as it started to overflow, this is normal. BUT.. I leveled the coach to start the reefer. This AM found water in pump area, looks like either overflow tube is leaking at tank fitting OR water expanded in cold temps last night and expanded and overflowed tank. When warmer tomorrow I'll look further. I know I need to take water heater out and reroute overflow but I dread the job.
Filled tank y'day and cut it off just as it started to overflow, this is normal. BUT.. I leveled the coach to start the reefer. This AM found water in pump area, looks like either overflow tube is leaking at tank fitting OR water expanded in cold temps last night and expanded and overflowed tank. When warmer tomorrow I'll look further. I know I need to take water heater out and reroute overflow but I dread the job.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Kent Speers on October 21, 2010, 10:25:53 pm
Post by: Kent Speers on October 21, 2010, 10:25:53 pm
Gary, where is the overflow tube on your unit. I think mine comes down next to the water pump in the compartment in front of the rear wheel, passenger side.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on October 22, 2010, 12:28:18 pm
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on October 22, 2010, 12:28:18 pm
Kent, Overflow tube exits top of tank goes west to bulkhead, theu bulkhead and then dumps down wall in front of airbag. Only way to get to it is remove water heater. I can see tube thru hole in bulkhead east of water heater but I Can barely touch it.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Felix and Gail on October 22, 2010, 10:09:57 pm
Post by: Felix and Gail on October 22, 2010, 10:09:57 pm
I had noticed some water pooling in the water pump area after filling the tank. Removed the rear panel covering the water tank and found a leak where the overflow hose connects to the tank due to a loose hose clamp. Was an easy fix.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: Kent Speers on October 23, 2010, 07:47:17 pm
Post by: Kent Speers on October 23, 2010, 07:47:17 pm
There is a gray tube that runs down the back wall and through the floor of the compartment that hold the water pump and tank. Does anyone know what that is for? It's possible it is related to my Uline Ice Maker which is located in that general area in the coach.
Title: Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full
Post by: John Cooper on October 23, 2010, 11:03:08 pm
Post by: John Cooper on October 23, 2010, 11:03:08 pm
Our water supplies are never pure. If they were they would not have any taste. There was an article a number of years ago that noted the pure water created in a lab had dissolved some of the glass it was stored in. Leave a water spot on a piece of iron and you will have a rust spot. If you are filling with city water it will be chlorinated and possibly fluoridated. Both of these are very corrosive.
I need to check my Grand Villa, while it does not have the bulkhead issue I need to see if the overflow can become standing water.
I need to check my Grand Villa, while it does not have the bulkhead issue I need to see if the overflow can become standing water.