Hello Everybody,
To give a value to a used FT is not easy at all. I read through many messages but still, I do not understand what the reasonable value of a coach could be, and I was shocked when I noticed the differences between slide and non-slide models. Depending on the year (I looked 2000 and 2001), looking at NADA guides the gap might be around $ 50K or even $ 60k. Same year, same model, same length. The only difference is the slide out. It is quite unbelievable. I am perfectly aware of the benefits one can get thanks to a slide out. I know Nada is just a guide and that it should be some 15%-20% less, but if I am not wrong this should also work both for slide and non-slide models, which means that at the end of day the average difference between them should stay around $ 50K-60K.
I know people may think differently but to me to buy a FT means to get married with a philosophy: the design engineer of the coach, the quality of interiors, the way it rides while driving, its long life reputation, the chance to have it upgraded which is an option that other builders do not offer, and so on.
If I look at a 2000 U320 40' SLD average retail in the Nada and a second one NON-SLD, the pressure generated by the cost of the SLD model can reach more and less 60% of the value for the NON-SLD model and 38% for the SLD one.
I do not know if the market really accepts this or if this is just in theory. If so, is it worth to pay such a check just to get few sq-ft more?
All the best
Steve
There are two issues here - FT only made a few 1999 slide models, and a few 2000 non slide models, so in general the difference is a slide and one year age at least.
That being said, I believe the true delta to be in the $25 - $40K range. And yes it is real, a slide coach is considered larger, more "modern" nicer when at an extended stay, and WAY more resalable.
That being said, there are those who prefer non slide models for their lighter weight and lower maintenance requirements.
Steve,
Many of us have struggled with the Slide Vs. Non-Slide question.
It seems to be a pretty easy question but the answer should encompass several complex factors that make the answer right for you. And the answer is so important, it needs to be your own. It shouldn't be some one else's answer to your question. If it isn't tailored to your likes and dislikes, you may have trouble liking the answer as you go forward in time, down the road.
The way we got around this uncertainty was to make a list of PROS about slides (everything that we had heard about that was good or knew that we would enjoy). We researched and asked as many specific questions as we could, to get a good understanding of each.
Then we made a similar list of all the CONS.
Then we arranged each list by "Musts" and "Wants".
Then we further arranged the "Wants" in their order of personal importance to each of us and applied a multiplier to each item based on the "Quality of life impact" for each of us.
(Sound like Kepner-Tregoe Decision making analysis? It is.)
It helped us to sort out the "wheat from the chaff", and the decision has stood up well to time, even though we had little "hands-on" experience to base the decision on at the time.
In fact, we have drug out that first analysis several times (and done some others) when we have been seriously tempted by shiny new coaches or various GREAT deals on other fantastic coaches (FT and other).
Although we had no reason to rush, in mid 1998, we decided to not wait for FT slides to become available in '99. We bought a new, non-slide '98 and anticipated trading up in roughly three years. We haven't traded since. We find that, for us, even though we live on the coach more than six months a year, slides don't score well for a whole host of reasons. And we also enjoy our many Upgrades Vs. Trading Up (which would mean trading backwards in numerous ways). The cost, over 12 (+) years of enjoyment, has worked out well for us. For us, FT is a prime example of overall build quality and getting the quality that you pay for. But that just reflects our personal "Musts and Wants" and experience.
This type of decision making is not for everyone, but it has helped us a lot and I hope that it helps others.
Best wishes,
Neal
Steve, I just bought my second Foretravel anticipating going full time within a year. There was no question for us. A slide is more maintenance and cost to keep functional. We are looking to simplify our lives, therefore no slide. It all depends on what you want from your motorhome. The one thing that is not just personal preference is that you need to buy a Foretravel for the many reasons you listed above and have read here on the forum. I never gave a second thought to any other brand.
About the only advantage of slides I could come up with for us two is more room for company and nice to have if we ever decided to give dancing lessons. But my dancing skills are so limited that if anyone took lessons they'd want their money back ;o)
best, paul 1999 40ft U320 (no slide)
PS> We had a beautiful FBP 1997 36ft U295. This difference between and 36 footer and a 40 footer is amazing. Much, much more and better than 4ft would suggest.
Once you are beyond about 5 years it all depends on condition, upgrades (like full body paint, headlights), options, and records. Slides are subjective. I could do fine without, the wife wants one eventually. Meaning, we will get one 'someday'. $30 to 50K differential slide to non slide is correct.
One thing to keep in mind - if you buy a non slide and decide to sell it to upgrade it will be harder to sell - so make certain you get it at a great price!
I lost this "argument" a long time ago. DW believed we needed the extra space because we had two dogs. Now we have one dog and she and I are about to share quarters.
Here is why I don't like the slideout:
1. $700 pump replacement this spring 2. $2500 delamination repair this summer 3. Water leaks during certain rainy conditions (ongoing) 4. They are a problem waiting to happen in my humble opinion 5. We want to take out carpet and put in a laminate. This is way too complicated and costly because of the slide.
O.K. Now I am in the dog house. I wish we did not have the slideout.
I purchased a Foretravel 1996 U320 40 WTFE in April this year.
Slide VRS NO Slide is a never ending debate. After careful consideration of the positives and the many more negatives there became no debate for me. I did not want a slide and did not even consider a slide model.
NO Slide for me because, slide models have: more weight, more maintenance, more setup time, and more money.
Dont get me wrong, I would like to have a slide because they have more floor space and more windows, but the negatives out weight the positives.
If you believe a slide does not add considerable time to setup and maintenance you will be frustrated with one.
During my 1.5 year "buy a 40 ft pusher" research project which ended in April this year, I was surprised that the price difference between new slide/non-slide models seemed to be not much more then the price difference between 9 or 10 year old slide/non-slide models. Stating the price difference in another way, the dollar difference between slide/non-slide models does not change much as they age, so older slide models cost a noticeable premium more.
I met a guy recently who has a Foretravel 36ft slide model and does not like it. He traded in a 40ft "no slide" Foretravel which he would like to have back. He bought it because his wife wanted a slide, a modern motorhome. The 36 ft has the same floor space but less storage inside and out and is more complicated to set up.
The bottom line, do what is right for you, what you will be happy with in the long run but only after researching so you make an aware decision. Slides have more floor space and more windows but have more negatives than positives for me. If you decide on a slide model, do not even look at non-slide models or price compare between slide/non-slide.
Good luck on your search
Ok, I will put in my two cents. I have had three coaches so far. I had two none slide FT and now a 42 foot two slide. I will say that the two slide is much more home like especially in the bedroom. I love the east west bed. I hate the extra expense and pain in the neck the slide has at times too. I think if you had the right floor plan you could get by without a slide but they are much less saleable but they will sell. I think a single slide or a double is best and if i was to build a new one it would either be none slide or two slide. I do not think you get enough for just a living room slide. The bed and living room slide give you a different layout and you can have a rear closet.
We had a list of "must haves" when we went shopping for our Class A. It "must" be 36-38'; it "must" have a slide; it "must" be 2003 or newer. We wound up buying a 1996 40' with no slide and couldn't be happier.
I wish to thank you all for your opinions/suggestions with regards to this neverending issue. To be totally frank, I have to say that I am very scared by slide models because of all reasons already stated by George and Wyatt BUT as I do have a 3 kids and of course a wife my very first concern is infact SPACE. So in the end, we are 5 in total and I could hardly think to a better solution but to have a slide in the living as to get the necessary room to make it possible for 5 people to live on a coach without finding each other at war because of lack of space. This is my only concern.
Did anybody have an experience with kids and found a kind of solution to this issue? I am basically oriented to 36 footer but perhaps the choice for a 40 footer could be a solution but at the same time it makes the coach bigger and more difficult to drive, park and so on.
I am asking also because I noticed that most of the people who do not care of a slide are normally in number of 2, which is effectively far different from being 5 sharing the same space.
Any comment would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Steve
Steve,
There is no doubt that you will have more living space when you:
1) Buy a coach with a slide out
2) Buy a coach longer than 36 feet. If you are thinking the 36 foot coach is easier to drive, get rid of that notion. The 40 foot coach is no more difficult to drive. It will fit in shorter sites, however.
Also, you gain a lot more storage space in a 40 foot coach.
Actually you do things slower in a 40' model. Which is a good thing! I found the 36 far simpler to drive, just like a big truck. The 40 was much more ponderous and required more deliberate thought. It makes me a better driver.
With 5 people I would suggest a 40' and a slide. Possibly a 42'. The best part of a slide is allowing you to "get past" each other. With our double couch 36 it was nearly impossible. With our non slide 40 and j lounge/factory recliner it has it's moments and there are just 2 of us. The DW has a penchant for refusing/ ignoring to "yield". The worst part for me is when we are in travel mode and need to get in and out. She will be in her seat with the electric footrest up. It NEVER occurs to her that is could be helpful for her to put the footrest down...
Having had a 1997 36ft U295 and now a 1999 40ft U320 I agree the 320 takes more care to drive when off freeways.
The 320 is totally worth it, of course. But the turning radius is hard to believe.
best, paul
On Oct 22, 2010 11:11 AM, "Dave Head" >
Dave,
Thank you for your comments, but as further issue I must say I do not live in the Country, I live in Switzerland and this country has many limitations (like all the others in Europe with a slight exception for France) for vehicles longer than 12 meters. 40 ft. is around 12,19 meters. 36 ft. is more and less 10,97 meters far better to drive in Europe.
To sum up, I am only trying to understand what is better to do to get a coach that could better fit the needs of space for a family of 5 people travelling around Europe (which is most amazing indeed).
Perhaps not that easy to find out.
Steve
We looked at a lot of motorhomes with and w/o slides before buying our U300. The slides were nice in that they gave an apartment feel to the coach and would have been really an advantage if we stayed in RV parks a lot of the time. The big down side for us was the increased weight, notorious reliability problems, compromise of chassis stiffness and the fact that most of the time, there are just the two of us and a dog. A big factor was the 102" width in the coaches that started in the early 90's. That was a real plus and with Foretravel's excellent floor plan, we have found we have plenty of room.
As far as 36' vs. 40', we are always off the paved road in remote campgrounds and down gravel roads to the beach in Baja. The 36' makes enough difference where if a car might make it, we will give it a try in the 36' but the extra 4' is not worth the risk especially when you are putting your rear view mirrors into the trees in a lot of corners. Our U300/36 also has a nice flat wall to put a large HDTV on behind the dining table. Could not find a 40' model with a flat wall available for a large TV. Our 40" fits well without hitting the valance and a 46" will fit by modifying the valance a little. You can then watch from anywhere in the front cabin. We did have to run HDMI and VGA cables through the belly and up into the wall.
Guess that is the reason for red cars, black cars, silver, etc.
Best,
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
93' U300/36
Steve,
Since you live in Switzerland and plan on traveling throughout Europe in your Foretravel, it appears that the best compromise would be to find a 36' coach with at least one slide (living room?). Driving a 40' through towns in Europe would be difficult at best.
As others may have mentioned, Foretravels are not designed for "multiple" (more than 2) sleeping occupants. Although most Foretravel coaches will have additional sleeping in the form of a sofa that flattens out, they don't routinely provide a pair of bunk beds and a kitichen booth that converts into a bed as will less expensive, more "family'oriented" motorhomes.
It might be possible to modify a coach to increase the sleeping capability. You won't find a better driving/handling motorhome than a Foretravel, so it might be worth it.
When we bought our 2000 40' with single slide we had never heard of Foretravel and never seen any others, but we had seen lots of SOBs. Once my DW saw this one we were hooked even though it was twice my budget. After 4 years and 40K miles we feel very fortunate to be part of the Foretravel family and we are very pleased with our single slide model.
That said, when I see other slightly older non-slide models I am a little envious of the simplicity and lower cost of the non-slide.
Another point that I don't believe has been mentioned: the non-slide models have far superior ease of access to the basement on the drivers side even with the slide in.
What would we do knowing what we know now? I would be tempted by a non-slide for the simplicity and cost but my DW would go for the single slide.
Sounds like a grand compromise is in order. Buy a second Foretravel (non slide) and spend 50% of the time in each one (running and ducking..... ;o)
___
best, paul
"Thriving not surviving" <(*¿*)>
Some once thought a million chimps would in time type great old works of literature
Now that we have the Internet we know that not to be true.......
Oh and yes we love our slide out....looked at a non first but wife was insitent on slide out and she was right for our needs.
My wife and I have a 36' non-slide, and when it's just the two of us, it's perfect. The rub comes when you try to add any extra folks. We were just up in Helen, Ga., and our son, daughter-in-law and granddaughter popped over from Ft. Bragg and spent 2 nights with us, including their Rottweiler!! Let's just say, you need to be on VERY good terms with your guests in this situation, and have the patience of Job. We loved our visit, but were much relieved when it was back to just the two of us. If you're going to have more than two living in the coach long term, IMHO you NEED slides.
I couldn't afford the extra $$ for a newer coach with a slide so I didn't make a choice at the time but after a year and a half I am extremely happy with no slide especially after hearing some of the maintenance issues and costs. Additionally, we have two teenage daughters and sometimes a friend or two along and have had no issues. We put a twin air mattress on the floor in the kitchen plus the couch and the recliner in a pinch. We do not full time as that would be a whole different story but we take 2-4 trips of 7-10 days in duration plus a number of weekends per year.
Our 36' non slide is just great for the two of us. I doubt that a less than ideal marriage would survive in these cramped quarters but it works for us. If we were full timers I might rethink this but we are on the road 5 to 6 months a year. The trips with FOUR G'kids, all boys and two of them teens is an adventure. I do not miss the additional maintenance problems that I read of here. In the future given the choice I think I would simply move up to a 38 or 40 with no slides.
( One grandson has his learners permit, I think I'll freak out his mother by letting him drive the FT, after instruction of course ). ;D
My brother has a wide body SOB with 2 slides and when he walked around in my coach he remarked that it seemed roomier than his. Maybe the floor plan and interior furnishings influenced that remark. No slides was mandatory for me as I did not want the maintenance issues like leaks, slide stuck in/out, coach won't start because slide will not retract, etc, etc, etc. Some additional bonuses without the slide are less weight, less HP required for coach, better fuel economy. DW and I are both on the smaller side of the size spectrum at 5'2" and 5'10" and lightweight so that also allows us to feel comfortable with no slide. For reference my brother is heavier than me. Larger people may need the slides. We expect to be fulltiming late 2011. After 37 years of marriage it is like only one person lives there.
Good luck with your decision.
We are with you Rick, except I am 6'3" and 240 lbs. We have plenty of room, particularly in our 40 footer. Even the 36' was OK but the 40 is much more livable.
One can't get away with any fibbin on the forum.
I love a diesel pusher so when I started looking for a MH I tried to find a 32 footer and found out that very few were ever made. Apparently 36' is the shortest DP that will handle decently. How are the roads/bridges in Europe rated for weight per axle? Can you even run a coach with a slide over there? I am also a believer in the KISS principal (keep it simple, stupid).
If you can do it, rent a like sized MH without a slide for a week and see what it is like to live in that space. I don't think I have ever seen a Foretravel for rent so it will probably have to be Some Other Brand. Find one with a similar floor plan to what you are looking for. If you can't find one to rent in Europe may be you can find one in the US.
I have owned both a 34 foot FT and and 36 footer. Both of them drove the same. Now my 42 foot tag drives better but it is much longer and has the tag too. I would not hesitate to get a 34 foot FT if size is an issue.
PS I put almost 90K miles on my 34 footer while I owned it too.
John,
I can attest to the fact that driving a 34 footer has been a joy compared to a formerly owned 31 ft. class C which was all over the road. I also test drove a 36 ft Foretravel U225 (Cummins 5.9), and I couldn't tell the difference except for the fact that the 34 ft with the Cummins 325 is a bit more lively and quick off the line.
Peter,
Was your 34 footer a special build? According to the brochure on Barry Beam's website the two options were both 36 footers. I am hoping that if I can ever upgrade I can go from a 36' to a 34' so I can fit in the NP and FS campgrounds better.
John,
The NADA does not even list the 34 foot FT in its listings. It's not a special build coach, but the original owner (we're the second owners) wanted a 34 ft. length & had the coach optioned as a U295. The U270 has Oak interior cabinetry. And, the 34 foot Foretravel is a rare coach, but there are a few out there; just maybe not for sale right now. There is very little price difference between the 34 & 36 ft coach. In some cases the 34 ft is more $$$ than a 36, depending on the options installed.
I wanted the 36 foot length, but my dear Beth insisted on 34 for the very reason you outlined...easier to maneuver into less level and short NPS, NFS & BLM sites.
plus Peter didn't need the extra room to shave.. He do make facial hair look good!!