I was walking around and looking at my coach today and saw some oil streaks on two wheels. I wonder what would cause this? I think I need to get it checked out. And I am thinking about going to Encore. Keith Risch works there and as some of us know, Keith is a first-rate diagnostician and RV tech. And with FOT and MOT so busy it can't hurt to send some business to Encore.
George, it looks like your hub seals are leaking.
Stemco Hub Cap Window Kit (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/Stemco_hub_cap_window_kit.html)
What Barry said. You might want to check your hub levels before driving to Nac. Easy enough to check and add fluid if needed until the seals can be looked at.
Michelle
Yup, do not pass go-- you need new seals NOW-- oil volume is measured in OUNCES, so you don't want to drive it until fixed unless you remove the cap and keep the oil bath topped up (oil level ring has an arrow showing proper level when coach is on level ground).
And I recommend using a synthetic gear lube in front as well as rear axle.
Brett
A search for:
replacing hub fluids
did not yield any information
How do I go about doing this? Would NAPA have the fluids? We have 200 more miles to drive to Nac.
Finally, what causes seals to leak?
Thanks
George,
At this point your pictures look like seepage, not leakage. Look at the inside of each wheel. Any wetness there would require the actions others have suggested. Barring that, your seepage is most likely to be from hardened red plugs, which you can get from any heavy truck parts house. Let us know what you find regarding oil level in each hub. I would bet you find no oil levels below spec at this point.
You have a leaking hub seal. Possible fire hazard if brakes get hot and fluid leaks onto them.
You guys are the best. I can only find these red rubber plugs on front axles. Does that mean rear bearings are lubricated differently. If not, there is no way I can get those lug nuts off.
I will add oil tomorrow.
Here is my photo
George,
Oil level in that photo is fine (assuming coach is on level ground/not leaning). If that is the one showing signs of oil trails, I wonder if it was overfilled?
Brett Wolfe
Brett,
Yes. that is the one. I will check the other front wheel tomorrow when it is light outside. Nice to know I don't have a problem. Lucky me.
Are real wheel bearing lubricated differently? We had new rotors and pads installed in August on drive wheels.
George
George,
From that angle that hub looks to be overfilled which would cause it to leak out past the plug. On mine there are two concentric circles on the clear section, one for full and one for add and I think the full is only 1/2 between the bottom and the plug.
And yes the drive axle is a different beast, only the front axle and tag axle will have these fill ports since in those areas all that is turning is the wheel. The drive axle will have a shaft that goes back to the differential. The axle, differential etc is filled with lubricant. So if you have a leak there, I believe you need to drain the differential, undo the hub bolts, replace the seals, refill the differential and that will not be measured in ounces of oil :) When you pull off the rear top hat see if you can determine where the oil came from.
Steve,
In the full light of morning, I will give it another look. On the drive axle I remember that they had to tilt the coach to fill the differential completely. Looking at the area under the "top hat" in darkness with a flashlight, I did not see anything suspicious. but I will take another look in the morning.
On another subject, that was an impressive posting you made about the slide room sensors. You make a seemingly complicated task seem easy.
Third subject: I hope your generator is now happily functioning.
Thanks
George
George,
As Brett and Steve have mentioned, be sure to check the inside of your wheel. The seal is on the inside of your hub. If you have oil inside the wheel and on the disc brake rotor, you need to have the seal replaced (a job for the Pro's only). As with others, it looks, (to me) more like minor seepage by the red (hub oil fill) plug, and possibly overfill, depending on how level the coach was at the time of the picture. Your drive wheel looks like it could be just the hub gasket.
I discovered a front wheel seal leaking while at TN RV, on the way home, last spring. There was no evidence of seal leakage whatsoever on the outside of the wheel, but the inside of the wheel and the rotor was well doused with leaking hub oil. The level in the hub was about half way between the full and add rings.
Due to some bad work performance during this stop (first time I've ever had a poor experience at TN RV), I did not let them touch the hub assembly. I had talked with my Cummins service center near home in NH, and based on that discussion, removed as much oil as possible from the hub and then added Lucas Hub Oil back to the full mark (a couple of times over 4 days......because the oil has to seep through the outer and inner bearings to equalize the level). The Lucas oil is a proprietary blend of synthetics for extreme duty applications.
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?catid=2&iid=35&loc=show (http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?catid=2&iid=35&loc=show)
Professional truck fleets use it whenever they have evidence of a seal going bad and the racing crowd uses it for its extreme service/durability rather than standard hub oil.
I cleaned the inner part of the wheel and the disc brake as thoroughly as I could. Then I checked the inside of the wheel frequently during the rest of the way to NH. I never had to add any more hub oil and after the residuals were "slung out" in the first hundred miles, I ceased seeing anything inside the wheel.
A front seal replacement is expensive and well worth finding a highly skilled shop. There are more ways to screw up a seal (and hub) than Carter has Liver Pills.
I'd reference you some National Safety Trucking Bulletins if I could find them.
Good luck,
Let us Know what you find,
Neal
George,
BTW, my son is a trucking Owner/Operator and a very thorough Pro in all of his work.
Age and heat and rough treatment can certainly prematurely fail a seal. But there is probably a far less evident underlying cause as well. He has had steer axle seals last well over a million miles on one side and well less than a hundred thousand on the opposite side of new Peterbilt tractors. He attributes it to assembly line issues and mechanics not being knowledgeable in their handling of the seals, bearings and hubs, improper torquing during reassembly and failing to adhere to acceptable run-out tolerances, among other things. He won't trust anyone else to do his, but himself.
When I had my seal replaced this summer, that side was not properly torqued, "as Found". When they checked the other side, torque and run-out were perfect (@ 146K miles).
Good Luck.
Neal
Brett,
Careful! You will have George up all night worrying!
:-)
Tim
Naw. Slept like a baby last night.
One more question. I do not have any concentric circles to show correct level. On mine, the oil level on the right hub is just below the red plug. I removed the plug with my fingers. Snug fit, not real tight. Should I add more oil to bring it just to the bottom of the opening into which the red plug fits?
The oil level on the left hub is about 1/8th inch higher.
Would you recommend that I get new plugs from MOT or FOT?
Thanks to all.
What about Lucas Hub Oil? Is this a good product to add to top off the fluid level?
Dave,
3/4" to 1" below the plug sound way too low.
The correct oil level "circle" is just below/outside the hole for the plug. 1" below would barely be visible.
Said another way, I doubt you have more than about one inch between fill plug and the aluminum housing.
Brett Wolfe
Would it be helpful if I took another photo with the plug removed?
George,
The fill line is very difficult to see. It is scribed very lightly into the plastic.
I am posting two more photos below. I used a better camera (better lens) and got really close.
I think the level is almost perfect, but I'd like to hear from Brett and Amos again.
Now, to my inexperience. I was looking for two small circles -- one inside of the other.
Duh. Concentric rings means different things to different people.
I can find no evidence of any fluid leaks under the hub cap.
George,
My "FULL Ring" is about 1/4" below the Fill plug.
Neal
George, It is right on the money perfect
Thanks, Barry.
Once again ForeForum comes through.
George,
Your oil level is PERFECT. That circle with "oil level" and the arrow pointing to it is the proper full mark (again on level ground).
Brett Wolfe
Brett,
Ground is level from side to side. The angle at which I held the camera makes it look a bit off.
Thanks so much for all of your information.
Ok George, I see how it works now!! Your right on,,,,Now why the oil leaking marks? I think your good to go....We both learned something...
Mike
George, Your "leak" is exactly the same as mine. Oil was overfilled when I got the coach, and it finally threw enough to be at the right level. Then I had it serviced, and it's overfilled and "leaking" again.
Hi George,
As the red plug ages, it will get harder. When this happens the plug can leak around the outer edges. They also are easy to turn/spin by hand. A new plug is not as easy to turn. When I replaced my red plugs, my slight oil leak, and oil streaking stopped. They have not leaked/streaked since.
Hi Tom,
I'm trying to recall who did my service, but I will be sure to not let it happen again. I am pretty sure it was done at Cummins of Bakersfield, CA. We had a mechanic there with a lot of attitude. You know the type that knows it all, we owners can't possibly understand or know anything about our coaches.
I will get new plugs next week.
Mike,
Here is my theory. I had full lube, oil and filer service at Cummins of Bakersfield in May. I should have waited until we were at MOT, but we had so much other stuff to have done there that we were trying to save some time.
I think a really poor grease monkey overfilled the hubs and since our hub seals are 10+ years old and are way too easy to remove that the centrifugal force of running down the road slung out the excess via this weakened plug. New plugs will go in next week.
I need to show you my "mouse shield" for my utility bay.
More on what I said earlier.
When I bought the five year old coach, it had just had the front hubs serviced. I soon found oil streaks, and was told to look for it being over filled. That was the case, and eventually the streaking stopped.
Then a few months ago, two years later, I take it to an expert for service, and have the hub oil changed. Now it is streaking again. It was pointed out to me at the rally last weekend.
Tonight I take a look, and the oil is as full as it can get, right to the rim. Well above the full line. Time to take some out.
Concentric objects share the same center, axis or origin with one inside the other
George,
Your oil levels are perfect.