I've been waiting for the fuel price to drop a bit so I could top off our U280 and when it did and I went out to start her.....I got ZIPPPPO !
So, I took the tops off my batteries and put my charger on with only 5 amp charge and after about 5-6 days I could start using the boost button.
Must have been the way I had the charger connected that only charged the house batteries instead of the start battery.
We finally have a nice big barn to keep the coach in and unfortunatly it didn't see much drive time this year and so, out of sight, out of mind. Everything was dead.
I just went to the Trik L Start web site to buy one and found out that they don't actually CHARGE the batteries, but rather steal juice from the house to keep the start fully charged. So I don't think thats what I need right now.
What would be a good charger that would keep things all charged and automatically start and stop charging as needed? Do they make such an animal for a reasonable price?
Thanks in advance and I LOVE THE NEW FORUM !!!
Carl,
Sears is a good place to look. However, I don't think you will find anything up to the task for under $50. I bought a great one for about $99 and have used it on start batteries and on our Honda.
Carl , [ Battery Tender ] model 800 is as good as you will find . It's water proof , will not over charge ,or sulfate your batteries . It can and should be mounted permanent in engine compartment , that way you always have a 100% charge . Cost is in the $45.00 to $50.00 area . It will out last your coach !
Thanks George and Brad, I was looking online and when I typed in Battery Tender 800 I found one by the name of Deltran. Is that the one you mean Brad?
Also, shouldn't there be a connection for both house batteries and start battery?
Or...can I connect to one battery post and charge all 3 batteries? If so, how?
Thanks guys
Actually "stealing" from the house battery bank IS a good idea, particularly if you have a smart/3 stage charger. You main charger's output is well in access of what is needed to keep the house bank at float level and keep the chassis batteries topped off.
Better to have both banks charged by a smart charger than to buy a "dumb" charger for the chassis batteries-- and few portable chargers are really 3 stage with a real float @ 13.2-13.5 VDC.
Brett Wolfe
I use the trickle charger and it does steal from the house batteries. I have the unit plugged in so I am always recharging the house with the inverter charger. It works like a charm. You should carry a regular battery charger with you too. If you go to the North East and or have poor power you can plug in the battery charger and then charge your house batteries with that and not worry about the 20 amp or 15 amp limit and having your bulk charger blow the circuit.
John,
I want to be sure I understand this correctly. Let's say I am somewhere with only a 20 amp shore power circuit. Are you saying that I can hook up my regular battery charger to the house batteries and reduce or eliminate the possibility of tripping the circuit breaker if I exceed the 20 amps?
But wouldn't I only be using the house batteries only if the inverter had turned on. Sorry, I really do not grasp what you are saying.
If you have limited shore power (like 15 or 20 amps) all you have to do is tell your inverter charger that it can only have XX amps of 120 VAC. Some inverters call it power share-- but it means they can ONLY use XX amps of 120 VAC.
Look up setting dip switches or programming in our inverter owners manual.
Actually, unless you are dry camping and paying generator run time to charge the batteries, a low setting is easier on the batteries and leaves you more usable amps for other appliances.
Brett Wolfe
Brett,
With this missing information, John's post now makes sense to me. Thanks.
If you are in a situation where you have zero or very low ac available and you do not want to run your generator, It looks like it is time to get involved with the solar panel world or live in the dark.
For me, the small amount of fuel the generator burns makes living comfy and more enjoyable.
I did not purchase a Foretravel to prove how skimpy I could exist and be miserable. :))
I agree about running the genny but some old campgrounds you can not run it in and you do not get strong power. Heck I was at Normandy farms at a rally and the power went pretty low. It was so hot out they ddi not have the juice to run 32 foretravels and the rest of the campground guests. SO I unplugged and turn on the genset. Not a problem.
Dave,
Point well made. But, there are times in campgrounds that generators can not be run.Then we have to go into the "frugal mode."
John and George, points well made, however in my case, a camp ground is a very very rare thing on my horizon, Normal stops for me, is the usual cheap places, even Walmart every once in a while, but I feel comfy in a truck stop and running the genset is the quietest thing running.
One day I hope to have the free time to slow down and smell the flowers and complain about the low power in some RV parks. Only problem is that I enjoy working. Maybe when I hit 70 or so.
Dave,
When you pick up that beautiful U320 early next month why not allow an extra day or two and chill out in a camp ground on the way home. Those guys running the 53 foot 18 wheelers won't even notice you, but other campers will.
sorry to interrupt again...but I'm confussed now. Am I wrong to charge both house and start for the winter while sitting or should I only charge the house to then charge the start?
Carl, Here is a little information on how the Trik-L-Start works to keep the engine battery charged.
GENERAL INFORMATION — ULTRA TRIK-L-START™ is designed to keep your engine starting battery fully charged during long periods of storage or inactivity. Connected between the house and starting batteries, it diverts current from your existing house battery charger, sending it to the starting battery. Maximum charging current is 5 amps, automatically tapering to a small fraction of an amp after a full charge is reached. A set of indicator lights display the charger's status, also warning of improper hookup. A built-in blocking diode keeps the starting battery from being discharged due to any loads on the house batteries. ULTRA TRIK-L-START™ is compatible with solid-state or relay-type battery isolators, as well as battery selector switches. Since it doesn't require any connections to AC power, it also works well with solar panels. The included battery clips allow quick temporary connections; crimp-on ring terminals are also provided for permanent installation.
Trik-L-Start™ never needs to be disconnected, which makes it perfect for permanent installation. The best place to permanently connect it is to the terminals on your existing battery isolator, switch or emergency start relay. This is better than connecting it directly to the posts on your batteries, since it avoids corrosion due to battery acid. Also, these devices already have wires from both batteries connected to them, eliminating the need to run long wires to each battery bank.
http://beamalarm.com/Documents/trik-l-start.htm (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/trik-l-start.htm)
Carl,
I don't know your barn set up, but I'll assume you have access to a 15 or 20 amp circuit. Then,
1. plug the coach to that source of shore power (your 15 amp 120VAC circuit in the barn).
2. If you have to turn on your Converter/charger/Inverter, do so.
3. If you have a Battery Boost switch in the dashboard area, turn that on.
Now you can charge the house as well as the start batteries at the same time.
Some folks have added a TRIK-L-START™ charger to keep the start batteries charged (from the house batteries if & when the coach is plugged to shore power). In this case, you do not need to turn the Boost "on".
Thanks Barry and Peter,
So understanding that the Trik L Start will keep the start battery charged by taking a bit from the charged house battery, I was wondering about how the house battery is kept charged.
So if I connect to shore power ( yes I do have seperate 15-20 amp full time plugs in the barn ) and turn on my boost switch, that will charge both the start and house batteries?
I assume that the coaches power switch inside has to be on....or no?
Peter, you mentioned "If you have to turn on your Converter/charger/Inverter, do so"
Just curious, why would I possibly use the inverter switch? I thought you only used that when you were without power and convert battery power to electricity for tv, dvd etc.
I don't want to buy a charger if the coach already has one and I would like to have all batteries charged without over charging and burning them up.
hmmm
You're unlikely to burn them up if both house and starter are good AGMs. They can take abuse GELs cannot.
___
best, paul
"Thriving not surviving" <(*¿*)>
"the real voyage of discovery consists not in seeing new places but in seeing with new eyes"
Anon
Yes
Yes
The Converter/charger/Inverter is one unit.
You only need the "Charger" turned on to charge your batteries.
The coach already has one.
By installing the Trik-l-start you will not need to remember to use the boost switch to charge the engine batteries.
Carl,
As I do not know what converter/charger/inverter unit you have, the reason I mentioned this is that on some units you have the option to turn the "charger" off. And, yes, you do not have to have the "invert" feature on when you have shore power. Invert should be used whenever you:
1. Do not want power interruption on appliances when ever power sources (invert/shore/genset) are being switched.
2. Need AC power while not on shore or genset power.
Actually, the way to insure that the batteries (any batteries) are not overcharged is to VERIFY that your inverter/charger is properly programmed. Look in your inverter owners manual. In older models, it was referred to as "setting the dip switches". These were tiny switches on the inverter itself. The head of a pen was used to turn them on/off. Newer generations moved these switches to the back of the inverter remote. Current generation program from the from of the remote panel.
And, if you have an older converter (vs inverter/charger), VERIFY that battery voltage after batteries are fully charged (check 24 or more hours after plugging in) is between 13.2 and 13.5 VDC. If higher, do NOT leave the converter on 24/7. If in storage, a good trick is to by a HD timer from Home Depot, etc. Plug the converter into it and set it to turn on for 1 hour a day.
No battery, irrespective of chemistry, will tolerate long-term overcharging without damage though I agree AGM's are more tolerant than others.
Also, I would not recommend leaving the boost switch on for months at a time. IF your charging system does not charge the chassis battery bank, buy one of the devices discussed here that charges the chassis battery from the house battery (which is charged by your inverter/charger or converter).
Brett Wolfe
Charge both or remove them so they don't freeze.
Do Gels or AGM's freeze?
Don't know. But Lifeline AGMs are installed in US Airforce aircraft - which may not always be above freezing
___
best, paul
"Thriving not surviving" <(*¿*)>
"the real voyage of discovery consists not in seeing new places but in seeing with new eyes"
Anon
In a partially discharged state, the electrolyte in a lead acid battery may freeze. At a 40% state of charge, electrolyte will freeze if the temperature reaches approximately 16.0°F. The freezing temperature of the electrolyte in a fully charged battery is -92.0°F.
So yes, its possible. If you keep a charge on, the heat generated will keep it from freezing.
Dave, reason I asked about the freezing on AGM & Gel batteries is that in my experience in Cincinnati (lows approx 0 F for no more than a week) I've disconnected the batteries & left then in the covered storage (but subject to the ambient temp) from November to April w/o any effective degradation.
The more I read about keeping batteries charged, the more confused I become. I suspect part of the problem is what appears to be a wide variation of battery types, inverter types, coach models, coach years. Brett refers to "older models", but what is "older"? Does my 96 270 have phantom loads on the coach batteries? If no, then why do I have to worry about them. I have numerous vehicles that sit all winter and are still fine when it's time to start them. And with the coach plugged in, I'd guess the same would apply, I should be able to shut off the inverter and not worry about them, again assuming that I'm not using any of the 12 volt stuff. But why shut off the inverter, apparently it should be "smart" enough to maintain the batteries without my overseeing it. They (Foretravel/inverter manu.) stuck the switches on the back of the control panel so I wouldn't be messing with them. I would assume that it came from the factory with the proper settings, especially after 15 years.
Gayland,
Yes, your coach DOES have phantom loads on the 12 VDC system-- things like engine and transmission computers, radio memory, etc.
And I would sure not assume that the dip switches were set properly and if they were set properly 15 years ago that there has not been a change in the batteries since that time.
Things that could have changed since it came out of the factory what would require a reprogramming of the inverter/charger:
Change in battery technology (wet cell, gel, AGM), change in size of battery bank (more/less amp-hrs), and clearly one that needs programming is ambient temperature. If it was properly programmed at the factory in Nacogdoches in the summer and you are sitting in Denver right now, it is NOT programmed as it should be. That doesn't mean you can't "get by" without having the programming correct, but this really isn't that difficult and can maximize battery life.
What does your inverter/charger owners manual suggest when it comes to programming/setting the dip switches?
Brett Wolfe
Verify that the charger is a modern smart charger rather than the on or off type that came stock on my 92 U240. I almost destroyed two new AGM batteries by leaving it on shorepower for just two days per month (one day boost off one day boost on). I replaced the converter/charger (don't have an inverter) with the three stage type (Progressive Dynamics) that goes into trickle mode and added the aforementioned Trik-L-Start and it works like a charm. My house battery is on the converter/charger and the chassis battery leaches off of it through the Trik-L-Start.
Thanks Brett, I suspected there were phantom loads, I was having transmission problems when I had the bad battery (the cateye thing). I also have a bad house battery, so will be getting two new ones next spring, thus I'm trying to learn all I can about what to get and how to care for them. So far I haven't found a book on the inverter, but haven't found all the secret rooms yet.
Gayland,
Get your Xantrex manual here: http://www.xantrex.com/power-products-support/document-downloads/product-type/inverter-chargers.aspx (http://www.xantrex.com/power-products-support/document-downloads/product-type/inverter-chargers.aspx)
Brett Wolfe
....and so now...after starting this post and thinking my question was simple and I would be ready to do??? to take care of me batteries....sad to say, I have absolutely no idea what to do with all I've read. Honestly, comlete blank!! It's no ones fault but my own, but I just don't knowwat to do except plug in full time and burn up the batteries or leave them alone and freeze. I sure wish this was not such a frustrating thing. So anyway, I've read and read and read again and now am going to bed with a headache and still no understanding of what I should do.
Carl,
No need to be confused.
The simplest solution is to install a trik-l-start.
It takes 5 minutes to an easy install.
Now when you are plugged into shore power, both sets of batteries will be safely charged.
Your on board charger will charge your house batteries and the trik-l-start will trickle charge your engine battery safely.
Carl,
You know we're not going to leave you hanging/confused. You're almost there. All the information you need is contained in the model Inverter/charger the unit has installed (it may very well be the OEM unit).
Once you know the model inverter charger, if you don't have the manual, one is available online (I can help yu locate it, if need be). Reason you need this info is to set the inverter/charger to operate most efficiently during the cold winter months. We'll also know if the inverter/charger is capable of float charge levels, and not just a single rate of charge all the time without intelligence to shut the system off before it fries the batteries. You need to know this information. Unless the previous ownerr changed the originaal unit, the OEM inverter/charger is an "intelligent" unit as the GV 280 is a top of the line model usually with high end components installed.
Please keep us posted on your progress...we'll be listening.
Carl,
Barry is completely correct! Just order a Trik-L-Start (business is in San Antonio, TX) and it will take care of your issues. I've had mine for several years, with the coach plugged in sometimes for 6 months at a time. Engine starts right up. I also bought the Toad-Charge to keep the towed vehicle's battery charged while towing and operating the 12V Brake Buddy and it works well (a separate issue from your concerns).
I connected mine to the house and engine battery cables that go to the boost solenoid, instead of to the isolator. Either way works.
If you get one (Triik-L-Start) email me and I'll send pics of the wiring arrangement to the boost solenoid.
You would have no issue in those conditions as long as the battery was fully charged to begin with at the time of storage.
Two separate issues are being addressed here-- that may be adding to the confusion:
1. Verify that chassis as well as house battery is being charged. If not, get a battery combiner such as Trik l start. Once your inverter/charger has the house batteries up to the preset voltage, the inverter/charger will charge the chassis battery as well. Doesn't matter if the either banks starts out fully charged or discharged when you plug in. Within a few hours, voltage will be high enough in the house bank to allow the combiner to charge the chassis battery as well.
2. Verify that the inverter/charger is properly programmed. Your inverter owners manual makes this very easy. If you don't have one, I posted a link to download the manuals in my post above.
It is really that simple.
Brett
I guess it's time for me to ask about the down-side of maintaining a charge on the chassis batteries using the boost-function? That's all we've ever done and it seems to work just fine, but ......... ?
I have had no problems with batteries on my 95 U280. My procedure is to plug in in storage and let inverter,converter ( Heart 2500 ) take care of house batteries, no problems in 7 years. The day that we plan to leave ( even after 3 months or so ), I engage the boost switch for 4 to 5 hours, then start with boost switch engaged. After start, turn boost off. My chassis batteries ( 2 Red Tops Optimas ) will keep a charge for months.
Chad,
Good question.
The boost switch powers (i.e. takes power) a solenoid that "combines" the batteries. So, if shore power ever went off, you have an additional electrical load. These solenoids also have a reasonably high failure rate-- at least in the year models around ours. And, other than a dead chassis battery, there is no warning that the solenoid has failed (i.e. the dash switch light is still on, but no battery combining).
With a battery combiner, the chassis battery only gets charged when the house battery bank is up to a specified voltage. So, though it is "stealing power" from the house battery, the inverter/charger or converter is well able to supply both.
If you don't want to spend the money for a combiner, while in storage, you can CAREFULLY jump from positive of house battery to positive of chassis battery (if in the same compartment). You could also do this at the battery combine/boost solenoid. Be sure to use heavy gauge wire and fuse BOTH ends, as both ends will be hot. I say carefully because touching any piece of metal with the jumper will give a dead short. Fusing both ends protects against this. I would not drive with a jumper wire in place-- too easy to "jump off".
I guess the bottom line is that you can leave the boost on, but there are better ways to keep the chassis battery charged.
Brett
Carl,
I installed a Trik-L-Start by myself. If I can do it, anyone can do it. You can order it on line and have it in about a week or less. I don't recall the cost, but it was something around $29.
Actually a little more than that $49 plus $5 shipping. 8)
http://www.lslproducts.com/TLSPage.html (http://www.lslproducts.com/TLSPage.html)
Two comments on all the above,
1-No such thing as Phantom loads, there are Parasitic loads from many things, as mentioned computers, clocks, memory on many things such as the HWH Leveling system, Inverter has an idling current if turned on, battery sensing on the BCM-12. Hell there is o end to the parasitic loads.
As for Phantom loads, I though Phantom was an unknown, in this case it is a known.
2-Battery charging, wow no end to all the ideas of the ultimate solution. For me and with 20 yrs of playing the game, I find having a separate charger for the chassis battery system simplifies the entire issue. You are not becoming confused as to which battery string is the problem and you have a stand alone system making all trouble shooting very easy. Leaves the boost for when you need it and not burning out the lil red lite nor burning up the coil on the solenoid.
Also do not for get the little dome lite that kills your car battery in a few hours, parsitic drain or phantom.
Maybe some one can tell me the disadvantage of a separate charger for the chassis ?
FWIW as usual or my take on making it simple.
As usual FWIW
Edit
Oh Heck, I forgot a few real big issues for having a separate chassis charger, if you are having a problem with your house batteries and the big charger, it is possible your engine will ot start either. It is nice to atleast be able to start up and drive away for help.
ALso do not forget the air compressor that runs from the batteries (I think) thru the inverter or are they 12VDC, have not looked at the wiring diagram for that issue, just a thought.
I can not see any good reason to have the famed "Trickle-Start" looks like a additional problem area to confuse the issue.
FWIW
Your RV or House batteries are connected to the charger/inverter when you are plugged into 'shore' power, but your engine or chassis batteries are not!
Most charger/inverters are programmed to properly charge deep-cycle batteries,
NOT starting batteries.
Many coach builders do not wire the engine batteries into the charger/inverter for 'shore' power charging, rather relying on the engine alternator to charge them while driving.
They have differing reasons for not hooking the batteries together so they can be charged together...most notably the fact that the two different batteries are different type batteries for different jobs.
The
RV or 'House' batteries are deep-cycle 'marine' type batteries designed to be deeply discharged (boon docking) with carefully controlled recharging cycles with voltages around 14.2 - 14.4V (different than auto batteries). They can be deep cycled & recharged several hundred times depending on several factors.
The
Engine/Chassis batteries are auto type batteries for large starting currents and quick recharges.
Diesel engines usually have two 'auto' batteries of the same type to provide large starting currents and longer cranking times.
During charging, the shore powered inverter/charger is set for charging RV deep cycle batteries at around 14.2 - 14.4V while the engine batteries need a higher voltage around 14.8V to be properly charged.
Besides needing different charging voltages, cycles, steps, etc. the different types and brands of batteries have different plate construction and therefore different internal plate resistance...this causes parasitic current drain between different type batteries when hooked together.
So, if you left them connected with the Boost Switch with no shore power, the batteries would 'drain' from one set to the next, depending on which set had the lower internal plate resistance.
Trik-l-start or echo charger or similar device will prevent that.
Thanks; have considered a trickle-charger, but in 5+ years we've had no issues using boost when in "stored" mode.
Hi Barry, If you are responding to my post, I see you missed my point 100%.
I sure have not suggested that Foretravels had a already wired in charger to the chassis , I made the mistake of assuming people would understand that by adding a seperate and proper charger to the chassis, they would eliminate all the fuss and hassels.
Sorry to not fully described the point And hell yes, if peopple love adding the famed trickle start, I surely agree it is their choice to go down any road they like.
I was actually responding to Chads message that I quoted.
He asked a question about the boost switch.
"I guess it's time for me to ask about the down-side of maintaining a charge on the chassis batteries using the boost-function?
Yeah. I have a bad memory for numbers. That way I don't have to remind myself what we paid for our Foretravel.
Carl,
Let me attempt to answer your question. I have a '91 U300 and I think it came with the same setup as your U280. You coach has a battery converter that is completely independent of the inverter. Many of the previous comments refer to newer model coaches with sophisticated Inverter/charger units with computerized controls. Your converter has no controls (it's on when the coach is plugged in) and your inverter has two switches: "ON/OFF" and "microwave/outlets". The term converter just means it takes 120VAC and converts it into a fixed (13.5) VDC output - it can be thought of as a simple single stage charger.
Here's what I think your options are:
Option 1: Leave your coach plugged in and turn on the boost switch. This is the OEM solution. (other have already pointed out the pros/cons of this)
Option 2: Leave your coach plugged in, boost switch off and use an aftermarket device like "Trik-L-Start". You can think if it as a "smart" boost switch. For engine cranking you still need to switch on the boost switch (when desired or necessary).
Option 3: Leave your coach plugged in with the boost switch off and install a maintenance charger directly to the chassis battery. This charger is completely independent of the house battery converter. "Maintenance" is the key word here when shopping for one.
I'd like to make one more suggestion: For storage, plug your converter through a heavy duty vacation timer set for one hour a day (Brett Wolf suggested this in his earlier posts). Converters seem to have a tendency to over charge batteries when they are plugged in long term. The converter is mounted to the ceiling in the battery bay compartment and plugged into an outlet on the ceiling as well. It's fairly easy to get to this outlet to install a vacation timer. Use a reminder note on the dash when it's time to bring it out of storage. By the way, on option 3, if you use a non-maintenance charger you could put it on a timer as well to prevent overcharging.
Dave,
I agree with you-- parasitic load is a better term than phantom load.
But when you Google phantom load, this is one of the first hits: A phantom load is the electricity consumed by an appliance or electrical device when it is not actively being used or is in the "off" mode. Although these devices, or "power vampires" appear to be off, they continue to draw electricity from outlets to keep their circuits instantly ready for the next time they are turned on. Power vampires only consume a few watts when not in use, but throughout a day and over an entire year, a few watts can add up to almost 20% of a home's power.
Whatever we call it, there are loads that do draw down a battery unless completely disconnected.
Your solution of a separate charger for the chassis battery is an excellent one with one caveat-- that the separate charger is a quality charger that will maintain the proper voltage. Way too many choose an inexpensive charger for this and end up burning up their chassis batteries. Heck when I had wet cell batteries, I used a little 6 amp Sears "automatic" charger to equalize them. Once batteries were fully charged, that little "automatic" charger would drive voltage up over 15 VDC very quickly. Never did figure out what part of that charger was "automatic".
Brett
Another question - my inverter says it's a Freedom 20 Heart Interface Inverter. Googling it some of the sites are that, others are "Xantrex Freedom 20 Inverter. Was there a buyout somewhere along the line or is mine in fact a Xantrex in 1996?
Gayland,
Yes, Xantrex is the "parent company". Sorry, I don't know when they acquired Freedom/Heart.
I did pull out a Freedom Installation Guide for the Freedom 10/15/20/25 I have dated 11/96 and there is no mention of Xantrex, so I suspect it was after that date.
Brett
Well, I hope everyone had a blessed and thankful Thanksgiving, and after reading all the posts on this topic I now can say that I have a MUCH better understanding of all the different concepts and new vs old(er) coaches. I have a fear of having the coach plugged in full time and having the boost switch on so I don't think I'm going to do that. I do fear just a bit, about leaving the coach plugged in for months at a time and burning up the house batteries.
Can someone tell me that my 91 set up will shut off charge on it's own?
I think I personally like the idea of the Trik l start IF leaving my coach plugged in won't fry my house batteries.
Be it frugal or just tight, I'm thinking about buying 5 for the discount they offer, keeping one and selling the other 4 on Ebay for about $5 less than if sold seperatly and getting mine for free. ......I think that may be what I've decided, I'm just not sure about letting go of $50+ or taking the time to sell the other 4.
I want you all to know that I REALLY appreciate each and every one of you :)
Carl,
Even if you break even on the purchase of 5, what you will save in aggravation and or depleted batteries has to be a plus for you. And with the Trik-L-Start in place you will have more peace of mind. Who knows. Maybe someone here will buy one or two of those from you. I am going to suggest to someone that they contact you about this.
We are all here to help each other. Happy Holidays. Enjoy Michigan. When it snows it is beautiful.
Carl,
Unless you have owned the coach since new, I would not ASSUME that the original converter is in there.
Post the make and model number and one of us may have specific information on your converter (or inverter/charger or whatever you have).
Very few OE 20 year old converters were "smart". By smart I mean the three stage chargers found in newer units. The three stages (Bulk, absorption and float) allowed full voltage charging, but tapers off voltage once fully charged so they don't overcharge the batteries.
Another way you can check it (as far as being OK to leave plugged in 24/7) is to check voltage at the battery with a digital voltmeter. If voltage after being plugged in for a few days is 13.2-13.5 VDC you are OK. If higher, it will likely overcharge your batteries.
Least expensive solution for keeping the coach plugged in 24/7 for an older "not-smart" converter is to go to Home Depot, etc and get a HD timer. Plug the converter into the timer and let it run an hour a day. Batteries stay charged, but not overcharged.
I went a different route, replacing my old "not-smart" converter with a modern 3 stage charger (Xantrex Truecharge 40+ with temperature sensor and remote panel). BTW, it independently charges both battery banks, so no "alternate method" is needed to charge the chassis batteries.
Brett
Carl,
I think best to get someone who knows what a converter looks like, to crawl into that compartment and go looking for it to see exactly what is installed in your rig! Until then, you can assume that it will not shut off by itself!
I will get the manuals in the morning and then confirm that those items are either still in operation or have been replaced, then I'll report back :)
Dave, I used a separate charger on my last two coaches but this one has the start batteries in an inaccessible location. In some model years they are burried house batteries. Mine is a burried start battery.
For example on my 93 the previous owner had installed a Progressive Dynamics 80amp smart charger with the Charge Wizard. This was installed in the area immediately forward of the connection bay where the angled water tank is. On my year the two 8Ds were installed in a vertical rack of the small bay aft of the driver's side of the rear axle...
Ok, now that I look at the pics I took and thought I was getting good info...I may not have gotten enough. We have a PACS 1500 Inverter and something called an Intel Power 9100 Mod. PD9180, I don't know what that is. Does either of these items help determine my option or am I looking for something else?
BTW, IT IS GETTING COLD IN N. MICH. BBRRRRR
That's a Progressive Dynamics 80 amp model.
http://www.progressivedyn.com/prod_details/rv_conv/rv_converter_pd9180a_2.html 9200 series are the cats meow...
http://www.progressivedyn.com/power_converters_9200.html
Add the charge wizard
So is that a good thing? Are you saying that the 9200 is what I have although the box says 9100?
I thought I seen in the link you posted that the 9200 has a built in wizard. Just asking so I know I understand what I have.
Also I have a Vanner Battery Isolator Mod. 50-140 I might also add that it and the wires connecting to the other electrical items like regulator and ?? switch or ? are all pretty nasty looking in my opinion and could use a good removal and cleaning with a shot of Corrosion X
So please let me know if I have a "smart" system and need no more than to pluc in to AC for winter storage or I need the HD timer or Trik l start.
Going out for some good local pizza...back soon :)
You have a 9100 series (a 9180).
Here is the charge wizard: http://www.bestconverter.com/Charge-Wizard-Flooded-AGM_p_15.html (http://www.bestconverter.com/Charge-Wizard-Flooded-AGM_p_15.html) It plugs in. Very simple, but talks the charger thru what is is suppose to do. Turns your extremely good converter/charger into a smart charger.
You might already have one plugged in. Don't know why they wouldn't have added it. The plug is just like a telephone plug.
NICE !!! :)
WELL FOLKS.......IT LOOKS LIKE WE GOT OURSELVES A WINNER !! YES?
Looks like the money saved on this vs. the Trik-L-Start will pay for last nights pizza.
So does this close this post?
Is that all I do is buy the Wizard add-on, plug it in and plug the coach into the regular AC outlet and let her go?
I sure hope that's it and it's the right answer.......it sure sounds right....for what I have.
and last night's 18" pizza was $29.....JUST the pizza, BUT is was mighty tasty :)
George,
In a word, NO.
This addresses ONE of the issues-- having a converter that properly charges the house battery bank (i.e. turning his original one stage converter into a smart 3 stage converter).
It does nothing to address charging of the chassis battery. Said another way, he is running no additional wires-- so whichever batteries his converter charged before adding the charge wizard will the the same ones he charges after adding it.
Brett
I really am trying to follow this and am ready to do what ever will be the smartest choice, but I feel like I'm on a roller coaster.
Is there a simple and one time solution?
Carl,
You are addressing two unrelated issues, so you need two solutions.
1. Charge your batteries with a smart converter/charger-- if your present converter will interface with the charge wizard, this is the least expensive solution. A smart converter/charger will fully charge the batteries in shorter generator run time AND will then taper off the voltage so the batteries are not overcharged when left plugged in 24/7.
2. Charge the chassis as well as house battery banks. Least expensive solution is a Trik L Start. A quality smart stand-alone charger is another option, but will be more expensive.
The only "one solution fixes both issues" is to buy and wire a very expensive charger (which is what I did)-- like the Xantrex Tru-Charge 40+ that is set up to independently charge up to three battery banks at the same time.
Brett
Sure. Buy they 9100 series charge wizard and install it in 30 seconds along with the Trik L Start, which installs in 5 minutes. You now have a smart charger that will keep all your batteries charged up. Total $75.00 plus shipping.
I hate to throw a curve ball into this mess, but reference the Progressive Dynamics Intell-Power 9100 and 9200 coverters. If you are charging gel batteries, with the 9100 converter, you need to run a PD9105GV TCMS Charge Wizard which is special for the gel batteries. The PD9105 TCMS Charge Wizard is for lead acid batteries.
On the 9200 converter for gel batteries, you need to open the unit and add a jumper shunt. I am waiting for a e-mail from then concerning this and will update this post as soon as I get it. Was told that it is a easy fix.
Update:
"GEL CELL JUMPER FOR A PD9200
DISCONNECT FROM SHORE POWER To disable gel charging:
REMOVE BLACK JUMPER FROM THE TALL WHITE (LOOKS LIKE A CHAIR) 2 PIN MODULE
To enable gel charging:
ADD JUMPER TO THE TALL WHITE (LOOKS LIKE A CHAIR) 2 PIN MODULE YOU MIGHT HAVE TO REMOVE THE FAN GUARD TO DO THIS EXTERNALLY on the 9260 or the 9280 on the 9245 it is on the end with the fuses .  (for the 9270, use the 9260 or the 9280 instructions.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103807 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103807) Radio Shack Jumper"
The attachment that they sent me included pics, but it just showed which side the fan was on for the different converters. If you want pics you will have to ask them for the instructions. You have what I was given minus the pics.
Good point Pat but I do have acid batteries. Thanks for mentioning it .
Carl,
You should be all set then.