Just out of curiosity. How many of us run a SilverLeaf product.
My first poll. Hope I set it up o.k.
I voted, and must be first. My vote is 100% of the total.
The poll seems to work.
George,
If you want to know the percentage that use Silverleaf, you might need to add an option to vote for "none".
Michelle
Sorry, George... no poll shows up... just looks like a regular thread. Hmm... Michelle's online tonight - maybe she'll see it and can figure it out. You know that George (the other) and I have a VMSpc, so will vote when the poll feature shows up. :(
EDIT: Of course, as soon as I post, the poll is there! :))
I went back to my topic and clicked on Modify, but could not find a way to add "none."
I added the "none" option.
Right now the poll has no expiration date. We might want to change that at some point as well.
Michelle
I use the Silverleaf VMSpc. There was a presentation on the different version we can have installed on our FT by silverleaf. It was amazing at what they can do.
I also use an like the VMSpc, and yes it is truly amazing at all the info that is available. I purchased a Ford F350 Diesel 6.7L, 4WD, what is so amazing is the display, does many displays not all of the VMSpc, but some additional such as angle nose up/down, tilt left/right, and tront wheel steering angle. Not sure why this is included but guess there must be a group that love it.
All this info is displayed between tach and speedo, in a very nice LCD screen. All controlled with a thumb button on left of steering wheel. Lots of info available.
It is very amazing how the digital age is coming on so strong, I wonder then the law will step in and claim distraction like the cell phone hawks are.
Merry Christmas :)
Hi George,
I use the VMCpc. It is one of the best additions I have made. Sorry, no poll is showing here.
Are you scrolling to the top of the page to see the poll?
Hi Barry,
That makes it work! Thanks.
I am using the VMSpc on a 6V92. Does not give all the parameters. But enough stuff I feel I need.
It keeps logs that I used to have to record by hand
It supports the 8V92 with all parameters, but not the 6V92---wonder why, both have the DDEC.
Would a Silverleaf product provide any information from a 1997 Cummins C8.3 engine? It looks like a lot of the information that people use comes from electronic fuel injection systems. I would not expect the C8.3 to have much information available.
J.D.,
I have looked into it and the answer for me is that the critical information is not available to the computer. So the investment is not worth it for our engines. You can still install a pyrometer and boost gauges and sorta get more vital information about the engine performance and output. I personally have not installed these gauges.
Steve,
Thank you.
George
I have been using the VMSpc on my coach for about eight months and love it. I was a little disappointed when I found out my coach does not have a turbo boost readout for the VMSpc to use, but there is a lot of other information for it to process.
No electronics.
Does past use count? I had a VMSpc in my '99, U 320. When I got my '03, U 320, it had a driver information center so I sold my VMS pc and got rid of the pc on my dash, no place for it anyway. Went back to full time MacBook Pro, hard for Macophiles to adjust to Windows and right click and left click.
Peter,
Thanks for the information regarding VMSpc for C8.3. I do have pyrometer and boost gauges. The previous owner added a Banks Stinger. That packaged included the gauges.
Spouse and I try to check the pyrometer if we are pulling serious grades, but don't watch them much otherwise.
Is anyone running VMSpc on a netbook? I use a MacBook and my options are to load Windows on it or try to find a low cost Windows machine I can set on the dash.
I am using a net book as it is smaller and the screen is not so bright at night that way.
Sure understand the notebook lighting up the area at night, I pull the screen forward where I can see the info, but the light is very low level and not so distracting.
Am looking for a better display than the regular pc notebook am currently using.
:)
I made a posting previously my VMSpc setup, you can see it here: http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10269.msg47540#msg47540 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10269.msg47540#msg47540)
I really enjoy enjoy the VMSpc... I don't leave home without it!
- Roger Berke -
Currently in Quartzsite, AZ. Next stop Indio, Fresno, Sacramento
JD,
The VMSpc and Silverleaf products are not of any use to us. Their information comes from the Cummins ECM (Electronic Control Module) and the mechanical engines do not have ECMs.
At times I wish that I had access to all that additional information, but then I remember the KISS principle. Because the 8.3 Mechanical doesn't have an ECM, we have a much less complicated engine and set of sensors and therefore life...............and instant starting, and less wear and tear on the starter and the batteries and the alternator, and more horsepower available under hard acceleration and on long uphill grades, and the ability to get better fuel mileage, and, and, and .................
Depending on your perspective, maybe "6 to one and a half a dozen" to another.
Neal
This may be a separate topic, but WHY does our mechanical 8.3 (instead of an ECM) produce "less wear and tear on the starter"?
Don,
ECM controlled starts require specific sensor-fed parameters to be met before the auto stop solenoid (or equivalent) is shifted and the engine is fed fuel. When all of the sensors function properly and all the start permissive parameters are met, this translates to many more starting seconds of current drain on the chassis batteries, heat buildup in the starter motor and a longer recovery time afterward by the alternator, as compared with the mechanical engine almost instant start.
Not a big deal on one start, but over the years it adds up to more "wear and tear".
Of course the counterview includes the entirely valid points that the ECM provides additional measures of engine protection as well as satisfying the legislated mandates for a "Greener" engine.
But I have seen these additional ECM measures also cause a lot of down time and additional expense as the techs struggle to determine and correct malfunctions.
The single time that my 8.3 mechanical failed to start was when the Auto Stop Solenoid failed. and I knew right were to look when it happened (at least in general....lift pump, fuel filter, auto stop solenoid). Since the Auto Stop Solenoid audibly and physically clicked, but the shaft didn't move, the problem was easy to see and understand.
As a counterpoint, I once watched a Foretravel sales and service center crank and crank and crank an M11, over several hours and until the chassis batteries had to be jumped, as they tried to get a fault to show on the ECM readout when it wouldn't start. I'm sure that starter forfeited one of it's nine lives that day. The problem turned out to be a sensor failure that also didn't show up on the ECM readouts.
As I said, "6 to one and a half dozen to the other" in terms of advantages/disadvantages.
Neal
Neal,
Thanks for the explanation.
Wow - with the 325 hp model you aren't supposed to tweak that one. I'm surprised they sold him the package!
Neal, SO correct, the mechanical setup is so easy to trouble shoot as you mentioned. When the stop solenoid pulls to the start position, it makes plenty of noise.
Part Number for the Fuel Solenoid #3906398.
One of the major issues we have found with the 8.3 Cummins is the Delco MT-37 starter, several starters have hung engaged and burnt up batteries, cables and starter, this has happened to both 12 and 24 Volt models. The only good news was the new one is (Not rebuilt) $425.00 .
I have no idea what starter is used on the Foretravel 8.3 engines, hope no one has had this issue, Would think it would be a major fire concern on a RV.
We deal with emergency generators and the fire hazard is not much of a concern.
I can attest to the fact of a sensor stopping the show. It would not fire the fuel and I wore down my batteries. I finally hit it with ether and it fired up threw a code and I got home and off the barrier island that was going to flood. My old 8.3 was electronic and had grid heaters so that would not work but the M 11 has ether plumbed inline and I bought more to spray in. Started me right up fuel opened and I shut down in the garage when I got home. I have issues like that I go to cumins not FT as they figure it out faster. I have replaced the startedpr on every one of my three coaches. It seems as though they last only five to seven years. I put in a stronger one and an extra battery cable and it starts like a champ.
I did just that. I bought a Compaq (HP) Presario. It was $600 or so in 2004. A friend gave me Delorme Street Atlas whatever version and I ran the two side by side. I still have that old pc and it's working fine with Windows 7. Still have trouble using a pc, Mac spoils us.
I've used VMSpc on an elderly but good Thinkpad notebook. I have one column of data on each side of the screen with MS Streets and Trips in the middle. I love it. While the notebook is old, and has relatively meager resources (disk, memory, etc.) by modern standards, it works great. Being dedicated to this task and always off line the old OS and lack of anti-virus is no problem.
Dave,
I was not aware that the Stinger was possibly not appropriate for the C8.3 325. I would guess that FOT installed it. That's where the previous owner had most of his work done. The coach has around 71K on it, and I expect the Stinger was an early addition. We have put about 8K on the coach with good experiences so far.
We have driven in the mountains and I check the pyrometer if we are pulling hard. We have approached 1300F a couple of times. Backing off the accelerator just a touch has brought the temperature below 1250F. I put a red line on the face of the gauge around 1250-1300 to help spouse and me have a reference with a glance.
"I've used VMSpc on an elderly but good Thinkpad notebook. I have one column of data on each side of the screen with MS Streets and Trips in the middle. I love it. While the notebook is old, and has relatively meager resources (disk, memory, etc.) by modern standards, it works great. Being dedicated to this task and always off line the old OS and lack of anti-virus is no problem."
Agree - I use the same hardware - and works great - love your idea of putting the GPS up in the middle -...course I already have a dedicated unit......duh....
George, I use VMSpc on my 1999 U320 with the M11 Cummins. I get more accurate, I think, readings with the digital than with the analog dash gauges. I don't get any transmission readouts, however. I don't think this was included in the 1999s. My laptop sits right on the dash and I don't think I could get along as well without it.
Richard Anderson
1999 U320, 40'
Richard,
I can get transmission temperature, and transmission gear selected and attained (e.g. 6/5) on my '99 M11 using VMSpc.
Bob
Bump...
We are thinking of buying the VMSpc JIB and cable in the next few weeks. Are most folks buying directly from Silverleaf? Has anyone purchased from rvupgrades.com? The latter seems to have a pretty good price Silverleaf VMS PC Complete Engine Monitoring on Your Laptop (http://www.rvupgradestore.com/VMS-PC-Complete-Engine-Monitoring-on-Your-Laptop-p/vmspc.htm)
Thanks,
Michelle
I bought mine in 2003 from Camping World I think. $395
$306 is a great price.
I had the incorrect impression that this product was sold only via SilverLeaf. That apparently is not the case. So go for the best price. You will love having all of this information in one place. I just discovered that SilverLeaf keeps a history of every trip we take. Miles Time Fuel Speed MPG. Cool
It's all part of a larger project Steve is working on (aka still researching), called "ForePuter" :D It involves a mini computer, a replacement in-dash display/CD player/radio head, and who knows what else. His version of the VMS-440...
Searching the archives shows Brad Slaughter bought from RVUpgrades... And it's the 9 pin connector version we want for our 2003, according to a response from Barry to Bill Brown (love the search function!)
The $306 is a great price IF it's the USB version of the JIB, not the "classic" serial version (which is $229 as a fully-warrantied refurb from Silverleaf directly). Looks like a phone call tomorrow is in order.
Michelle
George,
You can edit the file after each stop and insert notes about each stop, fuel, campground etc.
You can keep notes for your blog at each stop 8)
Actually, the Cummins ECU maintains that data. Silverleaf just lets you get to it...
If anyone is interested, if ordering the VMSpc from rvupgrades.com (for $306 plus shipping, came to $317.52 for us) it's actually shipped directly from Silverleaf, so I just put in the order notes that we needed the USB version and that it was for an '03 FT U320 with ISM-450. That should take care (hopefully) of any questions at the fulfillment end.
-M
When I got mine I had an issue reading the trans data. They adjusted the bit rate down a bit and all worked fine. I have another issue though it is seeing two sets of data now. Oh well, more to figure out.
For the DD 6V92 series;
I have one installed and it works good. Does not give a lot of info that later engines give, but all the 6V uses. No transmission data because of HT746 not being "electronic".
I called Silverleaf, and got a so so reply. I don't think they wanted to sell me one period. because of the output plug on the 6V92 that Foretravel/Allison l used.
I contacted Jim Sheppard @ RV Safety Systems. He located a compatible connector, had Silverleaf install it.
It was all up hill from there. Glad I have it because it retains trip data and I have most of my inspection and maintenance records on it. (did you know that was available )
George, I have had VMSpc for over a year and feel it is important. Just use my lap top on the dash. I use a separate small inverter to power the lap top.
Richard Anderson
1999 U320 40'
In case you haven't found it yet, there is an electrical outlet near the floor beside the drivers seat that has power with the house inverter on. I can reach it with my laptop power cord, so there is one less thing (an inverter) on my dash.