Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: Roadrunner on March 25, 2011, 10:58:25 am
Title: TPMS questions
Post by: Roadrunner on March 25, 2011, 10:58:25 am
I have a few questions about tire pressure monitoring systems. I know this topic has been hashed over many times, and I believe I have read all of them, even on other boards. I have been considering these three systems: Hawkshead TST 507rv Pressure Pro All are quite expensive and a full 10 sensor system with signal booster will get you in the area of $550 to $650 real quick. For the people who have any of these systems, can you tell me the pros and cons you see with them because as always I value the person with actual experience instead of the advertisements? Also is there a way of getting a little break on the pricing. Is it better to call an order in or order on line? I have put this purchase off for too long and now a trip to Branson is coming up. Thanks a lot for any advice you offer. All will be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: J. D. Stevens on March 25, 2011, 11:32:23 am
A search for TPMS on the forum should yield a lot of information.
We bought a new TST system for the 1997 SOB coach we bought in August, 2009. TST TPMS detected two leaks on one trip. The leaks in both cases were from valve stem grommets and were probably caused by the weight of the sensor on the stem. We found the system unreliable in weather below freezing and removed it from the coach.
Our U295, which we bought in April, 2010, came with Pressure Pro for the coach and towed Jeep. We inspected the coach for two days before we bought it. The towed Jeep had a flat on the same tire two days in a row while we were inspecting the coach. The tire never went flat again after we removed the Pressure Pro sensor.
Immediately after we bought the coach, we bought new tires for it. One of the new tires went flat while the coach was in the shop for maintenance right after tires were installed. The tire company fixed the flat, but found no defects. We removed all of the Pressure Pro equipment and have been pleased to operate without it.
Other people have been very pleased with TPMS. I have been pleased to check pressures with a gauge before a trip, then inspect tires at every stop with a steel club, an infrared thermometer, and eyes. We normally stop every 90 minutes to stretch and change drivers.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Roadrunner on March 25, 2011, 12:39:06 pm
J,D. thanks for the reply. Looks like you have had a lot of experience with TPMS systems and that is just what I am looking for, experience. I have been doing like you have, checking the tire pressures and visuals at every stop. No problems in the last 8000 miles. It is getting a little harder to do as I get older and fatter. I guess I really worry about the toad more, not knowing what is going on back there while moving. I don't think I would notice a tire failure on the toad, unless there is a lot of smoke, the fortravel is too quite and pulls well. Thanks again
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Paul Wildenstein on March 25, 2011, 01:05:11 pm
Roadrunner, We have used the PP system for a little over four years and I've gotten to the point where I wouldn't want to drive around the block without it. On our current winter travels one of my sensors quit working. A call to PP and I had a new one in two days. Inside the stem of each PP sensor is a special washer that must be in proper position and I suspect that virtually all leaking tires are a result of that washer being out of position or lost and that happens by someone taking off the sensor and not knowing what they were dealing with. A small screwdriver is a good tool to replace the washer. I have no problems recommending the PP to anyone.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: George Stoltz on March 25, 2011, 02:04:11 pm
I agree with Roadrunner. We have had PP for 19 months. Have avoided two disasters.
It only takes five or ten minutes for a flat tire to create a lot of problems that will cost more money to fix than the cost of a TPMS system.
In addition, the TPMS alert for high pressure can help you avoid a blowout. Blowouts are very nasty events.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Roadrunner on March 25, 2011, 02:19:48 pm
Thanks Paul. I am looking into using the Pressure Pro system but using my VMSpc Silverleaf software on my laptop. It is good to know that you have had such good service on your sensors. I have had several people caution me about checking the seal on the sensor if you take them off. Thanks again Paul
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on March 25, 2011, 03:54:01 pm
Have the PP system, no repeater and unreliable info for the toad and rear of the 36' coach. One biggie you need to pay real close attention to is how to install the unit on each tire. Just screwing it on is haphazard at best, great care is needed to make certain the little insert within the sensor is properly aligned before screwing it on and then you could still have an issue. My thoughts are knowing what I have learned, if I did not have it I would not buy it, but since I have it, I try my best to live with it and learn all the little gotcha's they are capable of.. Am aware the sales game is that they have never had any issues with the units, never had one to leak. I find that REAL difficult to buy. Have to admit that when all is working like you like, they are real nice, but leaks seem to be an issue for more than me alone, I have gotten most of them solved but feel it takes some luck. As with all toys, buyer beware and good luck Cheers
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: George Stoltz on March 25, 2011, 08:11:52 pm
Have the PP system, no repeater and unreliable info for the toad and rear of the 36' coach. One biggie you need to pay real close attention to is how to install the unit on each tire. Just screwing it on is haphazard at best, great care is needed to make certain the little insert within the sensor is properly aligned before screwing it on and then you could still have an issue. My thoughts are knowing what I have learned, if I did not have it I would not buy it, but since I have it, I try my best to live with it and learn all the little gotcha's they are capable of.. Am aware the sales game is that they have never had any issues with the units, never had one to leak. I find that REAL difficult to buy. Have to admit that when all is working like you like, they are real nice, but leaks seem to be an issue for more than me alone, I have gotten most of them solved but feel it takes some luck. As with all toys, buyer beware and good luck Cheers
I think it is important to be fair in our assessments and I have to agree with Dave here. I've had a number of issues in the 19 months, but I have been able to resolve all of them. There is some trail and error involved in getting the sensors installed so that they work without leaking. I have had to resort to Teflon tape on the toad more so than on the coach. Pat McFall has been very helpful whenever I have called. But all in all, I would rather have the sensors than go without them. Dave: if you add the repeater, you should get very reliable readings from the toad. We do.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Roadrunner on March 25, 2011, 08:23:49 pm
After doing a lot more reading I am leaning toward the TST system. The Pressure Pro on my Silverleaf system did not save any money and I would like to have the receiver separate because I don't have my laptop on all the time. The more I read the more confused I become, but that is what advertisements are designed to do. I have seen the TST system with ten sensors (no repeater) advertised for $499.00. And the company looks to have a good track record. Thanks for all the information, keep it coming.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Dave Head on March 25, 2011, 10:55:16 pm
I've had the TST system about 3 years. I like it. I've had to replace 2 (of 6) sensors. The earlier model batteries didn't last as long, and I left them on year round. Service and support are GREAT.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Kent Speers on March 26, 2011, 05:12:16 pm
I have to agree with Dave and George, again. I have had Pressure Pros for six months. Leaking has been the primary problem. One sensor I just cannot get to stop leaking. Since I have them I am going to keep using them because I hit road hazards on my last trip and blew out both front tires on my toad. The total damage to the car was $3000. If I had the Pressure Pros on the car, I would have know about the blowouts before I ruined the $800 wheels.
I have used both a small screwdriver and the tool sold by PressurePro to seat the washers inside of the sending units and Teflon tape on the threads to no avail. I have tried three different pressure pros. Does anyone know what else can be done. When I remove the sender, the tire does not leak.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on March 26, 2011, 05:35:36 pm
Kent, Join the gang of people that PP sales folks call STUPID, as NO one has ever had an issue with leaking PP sensors. I am glad to know I am not the only one that is too dumb to breathe. It looks like if you have a question about the PP, you are in the elusive club, A mechanical idiot. You would think maybe if they had a real good design that did not have a leak issue, we would not look so stupid, maybe it is just a lousy designed sensor. Feels good the know I am not alone.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: George Stoltz on March 26, 2011, 06:43:32 pm
Kent,
I wish I had another option for you.
Why not call Mike or Pat McFall? They own a Foretravel, have advertised as a Pressure Pro dealer while parked at Camp Foretravel (so I know they are more than some dealers who just take orders at rallies) and they have always been helpful to me. It's good to get input from someone who knows the product inside and out.
Let us know if and when you resolve the leaking issues.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: George Stoltz on March 26, 2011, 06:47:59 pm
Kent,
One other thought. The McFalls included a thread chaser with my order. If you have one, why not use it on the threads? It can't hurt.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: John S on March 26, 2011, 06:50:38 pm
Kent, you are not the only person I have heard about that has that issue. I have for the most part heard good from owners about them but I am going to wait till I have the type that is mounted inside the tire. Much better though you do have to remount them again in their tire life to deal with a battery. Hope they come up with one that will recharge from turning.. Now that is a great idea that would sell a lot of systems when new tires are put on...
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on March 26, 2011, 08:20:46 pm
Just been reading the Good Sam Forum and the subject of tire pressure devices can up, sad to see the Pressure Pro is not recommended by 3 of 4 folks, seems the preferred unit is the TST. Sad I did not do my home work before I paid the money. :(
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Jim on March 26, 2011, 09:28:38 pm
We have used the Doran RV 360 10 sensor unit for over 2 years and it has worked well except that three sensors have failed which seemed excessive. Also had problems with the original 12v plug.
I am leaning towards the Tire Traker which you can find at tiretraker.com. It too has user replaceable batteries and is less expensive than the Doran which does not. Our sensors are no longer under warranty and given the price will likely switch to the TT before spending the money replacing sensors.
I know of two people that have been using the TT for over a year and they are pleased with the unit. I have no connection to the dealer other than I bought the Doran from the same guy. He is a full time RVer. He quit selling the PP and Doran and now sells the TT I think because of the reduced cost and user replaceable batteries.
Jim
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: George Stoltz on March 26, 2011, 09:44:22 pm
Wow. I just looked at the Tire Tracker system. Very impressive product and replacement batteries are $1.50 each. I hope Pressure Pro is paying attention. No way am I going to buy new batteries from Pressure Pro. And I'd have to return the sensors to them for battery replacement. By the time my batteries start wearing out there should be enough owners of Tire Tracker to give me a good comparison. I also like the look of their monitor. Much smaller and more attractive.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Kent Speers on March 26, 2011, 10:37:02 pm
One other thought. The McFalls included a thread chaser with my order. If you have one, why not use it on the threads? It can't hurt.
George, I'm not sure I know what you mean "a thread chaser". Is it for cleaning up the sensors threads or the valve threads. I am thinking since two senders have leaked on this valve stem that it may be related to the valve stem itself.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: George Stoltz on March 26, 2011, 10:42:25 pm
Kent, A "thread chaser" is a poor man's die. They are used to clean up the threads onto which you would screw the PP sensor. At this point it can't hurt to try it. You did say that when you take the sensor of the valve that it does not leak. Maybe the weight of the sensor is creating the problem. If that is the case then it probably is a valve stem problem.
Remember that my advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. Is the check still in the mail?
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Kent Speers on March 26, 2011, 10:48:06 pm
You bet George, its in the mail. However, you may never see it. Its one of those invisible checks. The same kind I earn all of the time for my valuable info.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Don Hay on March 26, 2011, 10:51:05 pm
Kent, Have you called Doug McMeen, Vice President of Technology for Advantage Pressure Pro, at the factory? His number is 816-887-3505. I have talked to Doug on several occasions and he will bend over backwards to resolve an issue.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Dave Katsuki on March 27, 2011, 12:45:06 am
I had a ding on the end lip of one of my stems that prevented the Pressure Pro sensor from seating correctly - it seals against the lip . Fixed it with careful filing and sanding, followed by a release of air from the stem to get all the grit out. If you have problems on an extension stem from an inner dual, it could be that the extension isn't sealed to the stem properly. The extension in mine has a long wire that depresses the "real" sealing valve in the stem, so if it is depressed and there is a leak between the extension and the stem, the tire would lose air when depressed, even if the sensor is properly sealing, and wouldn't show a leak without the sensor installed.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Brad Metzger (RIP) on March 27, 2011, 07:35:03 am
well well well , I have read all this ,and I sure do feel better now . yes you can have valve stem issues . what appears to keep on getting missed here is the little rubber/plastic disk that the valve stem seats against . what I have found is ,that little disk inside the sender is not filling up the space which allows it to cover the valve stem end . So --the air leaks out -- is it A bad design ? , A cost saving effort ? or just plain dumb . In short looks like A penny size hole being filled with A dime size disk , which allows it to move around missing the complete coverage of end of valve stem . Looks to me like PP needs to wise up before they kill them selves completely . My new Chevy pick up has sensors inside the tires , what A joy .
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Kent Speers on March 27, 2011, 10:01:04 am
Thanks for all of the thoughts. Don, I will call McMeen Monday. Dave, its a brand new stem but I will double check it for damage. As usual, I got lots a good ideas from others experiences.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: sgkarnes on March 27, 2011, 01:06:53 pm
Hello All; I have seen an upcharge of $15 to $30 per tire for dismounting a tire with sensors inside the tire. If the dismount is not done correctly the sensor is distroyed. Use a high quality tire shop and chances are the rims and sensors will survive. Also the valve extensions on the inner tires can and will cause more headaches than they are worth. FWIW
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: George Stoltz on March 27, 2011, 01:23:24 pm
Hello All; I have seen an upcharge of $15 to $30 per tire for dismounting a tire with sensors inside the tire. If the dismount is not done correctly the sensor is distroyed. Use a high quality tire shop and chances are the rims and sensors will survive. Also the valve extensions on the inner tires can and will cause more headaches than they are worth. FWIW
We have a factory installed TPMS system on our 2007 Honda CR-V. WE have used Discount Tires for new tires and did not incur a special handling charge. Now, having said that our situation are the time of getting new tires was quite unusual. We had broken a valve stem. The valve stem is an integral part of the TPMS and the cost to replace one stem was something in the neighborhood of $165. Discount tire was able to attach that portion of all 4 valve stems inside the rim so that we could travel down the road with standard valve stems with our Pressure Pro sensors in place. There was a one-time $40 kit cost to put the sensors inside the rims. So far all has worked very well. Both systems work independently of each other.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Peter & Beth on March 27, 2011, 01:30:49 pm
As many new cars today come equiped with TPMS, the tech's at tire stores should be trained in the methods needed to properly mount & dismount tires which use these systems. As this is an added procedure, I could understand if there is a small fee to provide competent service...emphasis on the competency piece, eh?
Consumer beware when purchasing anything. The pro's & con's should not become a surprise after purchase...FWIW
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Dave Head on March 27, 2011, 01:54:31 pm
not just many: After five years of continued debate, the NHTSA developed a new ruling that states as of September 1, 2007 all 2008 model passenger vehicles, light truck and buses are obligated to have a sensor -based tire pressure monitoring system (TPMS). The TPMS alerts drivers when one or more tires are underinflated 25 percent below the vehicle manufacturer's recommended inflation pressure.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Paul Smith on March 27, 2011, 02:42:21 pm
Yeah, I was surprised to see an earlier poster refer to valve "extensions." These are a big no-no in my understanding. A LONG valve stem is OK. But not a two piece job ANYWHERE inner or outer.
best, paul
Quote
Also the valve extensions on the inner tires can and will cause more headaches than they are worth.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: George Stoltz on March 27, 2011, 02:51:32 pm
Paul, Why do you not like valve extensions? It is very difficult to use a TPMS on an inner dual tire without the extension.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Paul Smith on March 27, 2011, 03:00:03 pm
Because they often leak. Perhaps we are not communicating.
A long valve stem is needed for an inner dual.
An "extension" is not. With an extension there are three places a leak can occur. 1. At the valve stem cap or PP 2. At the joint between the extension and the valve stem 3. At the joint between the valve stem and the rim.
best, paul
Quote
Why do you not like valve extensions? It is very difficult to use a TPMS on an inner dual tire without the extension.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Paul Wildenstein on March 27, 2011, 04:51:23 pm
George, We have a long stem on our two inner duals and they just sit there begging for a TPMS to be screwed onto it which, of course, is what we do. It really couldn't be easier. Paul
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: George Stoltz on March 27, 2011, 05:06:21 pm
George, We have a long stem on our two inner duals and they just sit there begging for a TPMS to be screwed onto it which, of course, is what we do. It really couldn't be easier. Paul
Paul,
I don't know whether to be happy or to be ticked off. We were at Les Schwab (one of the biggest tuck tire dealers in the northwestern part of the U.S. and when I asked about such stems they looked at me like I was goofy. When we bought our tires in Arizona from a pretty good sized dealer, he told me they do not exist.
People who have been RVing full-time for 8 to 10 years have posted about this topic and apparently do not know that such longer valve stems exist. Evidently, they are not commonly found, but I would sure like to have a link to them. I truly do not like the valve extensions on our inner rear tires. They have been problematic and whenever I need to remove a sensor on an inner tire, I have to hold the valve extension with a pair of needle-nose Vise Grips so as not to disturb the connection.
I would be so grateful if you would provide me with the source of these stems so that I can get a pair and have them installed.
Thank you for this information.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on March 27, 2011, 05:18:53 pm
Herman Power Tire in Nac 936 564 8751 has the long stems, they put one on my inside dual, to solve the leaking issue with the PP mounted. Not all big tire shops are created equal ;D
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Paul Smith on March 27, 2011, 05:29:55 pm
I was at MOT planning to leave on Sat (after my normal pilgrimage to MOT maintenance earlier in the week). I took off the PP on driver's inside dual to add air and the entire long stem came out. I could not fish it back in so I called Herman. They removed the outside dual and fixed it. Great! I was still good to go on Sat.
Then I opened the door to the large bay next to the utility bay and one of the attachments broke. It took me and the Herman guy to get it partially closed.
No one at MOT on Sat, of course, so we went to the movie.
Monday morning the MOT guys did their thing and we were on our way by 10a.
Foretravel people seem to get to know their way around Nac ;o)
best, paul
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: George Stoltz on March 27, 2011, 05:31:38 pm
Dave,
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Paul Wildenstein on March 27, 2011, 05:37:18 pm
"No way am I going to buy new batteries from Pressure Pro."
George, I don't believe that batteries can be replaced in PP. At least that is what I was told a few weeks ago when I had one shut down on me. On the other hand, I had a new sensor in my hands two days later and then I returned my bad sensor to them. It was a very painless transaction. Paul
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: George Stoltz on March 27, 2011, 05:40:19 pm
"No way am I going to buy new batteries from Pressure Pro."
George, I don't believe that batteries can be replaced in PP. At least that is what I was told a few weeks ago when I had one shut down on me. On the other hand, I had a new sensor in my hands two days later and then I returned my bad sensor to them. It was a very painless transaction. Paul
What was the cost involved?
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: George Stoltz on March 27, 2011, 05:43:09 pm
I was at MOT planning to leave on Sat (after my normal pilgrimage to MOT maintenance earlier in the week). I took off the PP on driver's inside dual to add air and the entire long stem came out. I could not fish it back in so I called Herman. They removed the outside dual and fixed it. Great! I was still good to go on Sat.
Then I opened the door to the large bay next to the utility bay and one of the attachments broke. It took me and the Herman guy to get it partially closed.
No one at MOT on Sat, of course, so we went to the movie.
Monday morning the MOT guys did their thing and we were on our way by 10a.
Foretravel people seem to get to know their way around Nac ;o)
Paul,
Not to nit pick, I just want to be sure I am getting this right. Don't you mean to say that Herman Power had to remove the inner rear tire and dismount it in order to install the new longer valve stem?
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on March 27, 2011, 06:49:51 pm
In my case, Herman Power man removed the inside wheel and broke bead on one side, and was able to fish the new long stem in and mount it, air it back up, not a BIG deal for the boys that know how to do it, again all shops are not equal, some can make it look simple, some look like they are fighting a gater ;D
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Don Hay on March 27, 2011, 10:24:02 pm
George Stoltz asked: " What was the cost involved?"
George: I recently replaced all of my PP sensors, as they were 5 yrs, 8 mos. old and 2 of the batteries had died within a week of each other. Paul is correct: They do not replace the batteries. For $35/sensor they send you a brand new set. The total for 10 sensors was $365. They ask you to return the old sensors (pre-paid box) so they can be examined by R&D people at Advantage Pressure Pro. At that time I also ordered extra (10 in a package for $4) rubber inserts. Although they do wear out after a couple years, I have never had a new one not fit snuggly around the inner circumference of the sensor. It is also my impression that their function is to hold the Schrader valve down (open), so the pressure may be read by the sensor, not to keep the sensor air tight.
I have had my rear sensors connected to braided metal extensions for nearly 6 years without issues.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: George Stoltz on March 27, 2011, 10:39:37 pm
Thanks, Don. I smell a little "gilding of the lily" in the phrase from PP about having R&D examine the sensors.
C'mon Pressure Pro. Really! R&D people are gonna test batteries?
While I do not find the $35 price per sensor out of line, for me when the time comes to get new ones, I will be putting my money on a brand that allows me to replace my own batteries and should SEND me free not SELL me rubber inserts to take care of a defective design. For the amount of money the Pressure Pro system costs, the very least they could do is send FREE inserts to those of us who have had problems. That, in my humble opinion, is one way to build customer support.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Paul Wildenstein on March 27, 2011, 10:55:23 pm
George, The cost was $35. I thought they might charge the $50 of a new sensor and then refund $15 when they got my old sensor, but they did not. Paul
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: kinger65 on April 05, 2011, 11:14:52 pm
I too am looking at installing a tire pressure monitoring system, but I learned something you might want to consider at the recent FMCA rally in Perry. I will be buying the Silver Leaf engine monitoring system in the very near future, and will run it into a spare 14" Toshiba laptop computer that will reside just to the right of my instrument panel. I will also be purchasing DeLormes GPS system that will feed into the same laptop and share the screen with the Silver Leaf. I learned at the rally that Pressure Pro is the only one of the TPMS that will also share the laptop screen with Silver Leaf, so you don't have to use a separate display panel for the TPMS system. Might not be important to you, but its worth a thought, and I love the thought of having all three on one screen.
Title: Re: TPMS questions
Post by: Barry & Cindy on April 06, 2011, 10:01:59 pm
Pressure Pro used through Silverleaf generally will not readout tire PSI without ignition key on. So using dedicated Pressure Pro monitor has advantages, like using the monitor in a car when being driven separate from motorhome, in addition to receiving immediate alarm if someone removes sensors or slow leak notification. We regularly check our Pressure Pro tire pressures while parked and as part of our get ready to travel check.