Foretravel Owners' Forum

I just spoke with the local Detroit shop about getting everything checked out on my 93, U300. When I bought it last fall, it had just had a fresh oil change and lube. After driving it 6000 miles I think its time for an oil change and I have not been getting good MPG's, regardless of speed, other members get with the same DDEC 6V92 Detroit 350 hp engine. I'm getting 6.7 mpg average and never over 7.2 mpg and that was at 70 mph. One trip at 58 mph got only 6.5 mpg.

The local Detroit shop said an engine diagnostic would run between $600, to check the rack, up to $1,200 to check sleeves, rings, pretty much everything.

They also quoted between $250 and $600 for an engine oil change and lube for the engine and between $375 and $625 for a transmission fluid change to synthetic. They did not think synthetic oil for the 6V92 was a good idea.

I would like to hear opinions of our more experienced members about these costs or any alternative suggestions and whether I should do the oil and lube myself. Is dropping $2000 at the Detroit shop a good investment to establish a base line for the engine/transmission maintenance? If I do the oil/lube myself, are there little quirks dealing with the oil filters and fuel filters, etc. I need to know about? Disposal of that much oil may be a problem for me. In a previous post, one of our learned members suggested finding a local mechanic that was an expert at tuning the Detroits. How would I go about finding someone truly competent?

Thanks in advance for your help!!!

Kent,
This is an easy one, if you can spare the cash.  Do it.  It will establish your base line as the new owner, and eliminate any guessing on your part.  If you can go from 7 to 8 mpg, the payback is just a year and a half.  Assuming you drive 20,000 miles per year and fuel is $4/gal:
 
          $2,000.00 Cost, 500.00 gals fuel equivalent                20,000 miles per year
 7 mpg           2,857 gallons per year 
 8 mpg           2,500 gallons per year                        357 gallons saved      $    1,428.57 annual savings

Peter, thanks for the analysis. Even considering the payback, its just the thought of spending that much just for service. I am, after all, Scottish by lineage. I really just need to be assured that there is probably no better alternative. 

Kent,
I agree about the investment amount...but, the main thing is to spend it with a very competent shop, and not throw it away with some DD mechanical technician wannabe.

I got that shock too the first time.  Don't have the DD, but getting the oil, transmission fluid, differential, and generator oil changed right after purchase as there were no maintenance records was over $700 and that was a discounted price as it was summer in FL.  Instead of 4 qts of oil, its 4 gal and the filter holds 3 qts (part of the 4 gal), same for all the other parts equally large.  If you can change the oil and lube a car, you can probably do the MH.  Just make sure all the parts and fluids  are approved for the engine, transmission, etc.  This includes oil, transmission fluid, antifreeze, etc.  You will need a big plastic box or metal washtub to catch the fluid.  If the fluid is hot the metal tub is better.  Don't lube the grease fittings on the brakes, as a special grease and procedure is required. 

Kent, I would be thinking the 6 gal 40 wt oil at $12.00 gal and oil filter at $25.00, both fuel filters total $30.00, so you get the idea, and even the air filter might be in the $80.00 range.
I would figure the air filter is what you will need most of all.
SO you figure how much they are making on you.
Yes, the TranSynd for the Allison is a great idea, at Local DDA dealers it goes for about $35.00 gal and not sure how much your transmission holds nor what filters it requires.
NO Synthetic for DDA engines.
I would go with the rack adjustment/check, and to check the cylinder liners, simply remove the air box covers on each side and using a flashlight have a look see inside the liners.  Frankly, I would forget the cylinder inspection unless you notice low compression on one or more cylinders during the crank cycle.
Oil filter NAPA 1970, Primary fuel 3118, Secondary fuel 3120, Check Filter Barn pricing, same for the transmission filter if you can find the part number.
Changing oil is not a biggie, but can get sloppy. ;D
Dave M

Kent,

Before changing fluids I would have a fluid analysis done.  You take a small sample of each fluid and send it off the the lab of your choice .  You will get a report back showing what is in the fluid.  Wear particles, contaminants etc.  from that you can tell if there is excessive wear rates or contamination of the fluid.  I have used Blackstone Labs personally and Pennzoil's labs professionally, but any competent lab will do.  As an example, if glycol is present in the engine oil there is a leak between the fluids.  Usually a head gasket on it's way out.  It will also give you a base line to refer to.  In a previous life one of my departments was in charge of the maintenance of large municipal fleets.  Regular sampling on high value units saved a few unpleasant surprises.

Keith

Kent !!!!

Kent !!!!
Find another shop.
To start with they should know that the 6V92TA does not have a "rack", it is an electronic engine.
I had a diagnostic check on mine when I first got it for $200.00.

Only Good advice they gave you was on oil change. Go with straight 40wt (delo-400).
By al means do an oil analysis on both tranny & engine ( maybe even rear end).
Even if you have to remove the front wheel, check the oil in your front wheel bearing.


I'm sure you will get much more advice, just remember the 6V92TA is a one of a kind engine.

There is a shop in Mineral Wells Texas thet specialisis in them. I have not been there yet, but have talked to them several times.


I switched to syn in the tranny. but have then flush the tranny too ( after oil analysis )

Thanks to all. 

I had forgotten about getting a fluids analysis. I will do that first.

I have changed the oil in my U225 so I know its no big deal but disposal is a real problem, particularly with the volume of oil this one holds. Disposal of antifreeze of that quantity is also a problem. Does anyone have any suggestions for disposal of used oil and antifreeze?

Hey Pierce, I'm still waiting to hear from you.

Kent,
WalMart will take your used oil for free.

Kent,
I recycle my oil, oil filter and antifreeze at our county dump, so you may check your local area and see if they offer that service.  I used to take my oil and oil filters to my local airport when I was still flying. 

I used my local Cat dealer to do the oil analysis and it looks like Warren Cat has locations in your area. 
Locations | Warren CAT (http://www.warrencat.com/index.php/www/about_us/locations)

Hope to see you in a few weeks on our way north if your still home.

Thanks,

George, if Walmart takes it that would be great. I will check with them tomorrow.


I had checked with the local government agencies, dump etc., but no oil or anti freeze.

Brad, let us know when you are coming North. We plan to be on the road sometime within the next two weeks. The house is spiffed up as much as possible and now on the market. We have had almost 400 hits on the virtual open house in just one week but no offers yet. Maybe next week.

Here in Austin any facility doing oil changes are required to accept used oil.  I don't know if that holds true for the county or the rest of Texas.  I'm not sure if they are required to take antifreeze, but the city recycling center will take oil and antifreeze, old paint, and hazardous household chemicals. 

Kent,
I do my own oil changes and replaced the plug with one of these:
FUMOTO ENGINEERING (http://www.fumotousa.com/)
I direct fill plastic milk jugs from the valve - clean and easy.  Changing the oil filter is still messy.
I have curbside recycling that picks up used motor oil - although only one gallon at a time.  Not applicable for a future fulltimer.
I use 40 wt Chevron Delo 100 per http://www.tejascoach.com/tejasoil.html#Oilrec (http://www.tejascoach.com/tejasoil.html#Oilrec) recommendations.  I buy 5 gal pales and have to buy it at an oil distributor because it's getting harder to find- I usually get 2 at a time.  My mileage has always been in the 8's (2600# toad, usually 65 mph) but my engine is only 300hp.  Your low mileage makes me wonder is something is a miss.  Need to talk to others with exact same setup for proper comparison.  I did a dyno test when I first bought my coach to see if the HP is where it should be.  And another check might be valves - I'm not sure what the mileage interval is for that - I'm thinking I've heard every 100k - I had mine done at 85K, again when I first bought it (that was 10 yrs ago when I took a 3 yr sabbatical).
Hope this helps.

The great OZ is about to speak.....trouble is, we all know what happened when Dorothy pulled the curtain back.

An oil change is really easy. Just warm up the engine or drive it a couple of miles. Park it level and then make sure to follow forum post instructions so your U300 with that oh so pretty paint job, does not come down on top of you and also make sure to block the wheels. I use a big kitty litter plastic bucket to drain the oil into. Fits under the oil pan. Should have newspaper, paper towels, throw away gloves and hand cleaner close by. Filter strap will be a good, cheap investment for all filters. You have read the Delo 100 posts so after getting a couple of cases, just order up filters from above forum source. I don't use Fram filters. Oil filter will make a mess when you spin it off so be ready. Follow the online/on box instructions for spinning it back on...no need to use a wrench. Use torque wrench if you don't feel confident in how much to tighten the pan drain bolt. You should also drain the catch tank for the slurper tubes. Call O'Reilly, Autozone, Napa or WalMart store ahead of time for oil recycling. Put the top back on the kitty litter bucket and DON'T spill it (like I have) on the way to the recycler. Use felt tip marker on all filters with the date and mileage.  Enter in maintenance book also. Easy to look on filter rather than opening book.

Fuel filters are super easy also. Just order them at the same time. Use strap wrench to loosen and hand tighten to replace. I spin them back leaving them with only a few turns before contacting the gasket and then use the little hand pump down on the frame just inside the big engine door on the right side to prime the filters. Pump until the first filter overflows and then tighten by hand. Do the same for the second overflows. Don't have to worry about air in the system as Detroits prime themselves easily. If the hand pump does not work well, Napa has the two little O rings to fix it (had to fix mine).

Transmission oil filter is easy but pan holds a LOT of fluid. Just remember that you can't drain the torque converter so stated capacity may or may not include the torque converter. Don't overfill!!! A lot to be said for synthetics and also for staying with conventional fluid. First change with a synthetic will not make it all syn. because of the fluid in the converter. All filters, drain plugs are CCW to take off when looking up from the bottom. Follow factory instructions for cold and hot fluid level checks.

The manuals the U300 came with have all the instructions for checking rear axle, slack adjusters, etc. There must be a thousand pages so when you find the material, photo copy the pages for fast future reference.

When doing all this, check all belts and make sure you have spares. Good idea to put the new belts on and keep the old ones (if in good shape) for spares.

As I said in my letter, your speed/rpm does not match mine or Bill Chaplin's U300.  You should be seeing 82 mph true/gps at 2100 rpm. Since this is in direct drive/lockup, it is easy to do the math for lower speeds. Your figures indicate to me that either you have a higher numerical rear axle ratio or your transmission is not locking up into direct drive. This is a four speed transmission but you should feel shifts from first to second, second to second lockup about half way through second gear and then second (lockup) to third (lockup) and last, third (lockup) to fourth (lockup). This could explain the difference in fuel mileage between our coaches.

I have seen old, tired gas or diesel engines get as good or better fuel mileage than new rigs.  Any cylinder leakage, etc. may be made up for by lower internal friction. Lower friction from larger piston to cylinder clearance, main and rod bearings, etc.

Try the engine and then transmission switches under the flip up dash for stored computer codes. Light bulb will blink codes. Code definitions in the manual and online. Good idea to find someone to plug in diagnostic reader to make sure engine and transmission are operating as they should.

Kent, you communicate your ideas very well on the forum and would probably have a good "gift of gab" in person. Why don't you find a retired or weekend moonlighting mechanic (best if Detroit DDEC knowledgeable)  to help you on your first venture in DIY maintenance? He could give a lot of tips and give you a sense of confidence. Don't think I have ever met anyone without being of a bit envious of an ability that I wish I had. A lot of good people out of work or with short hours that could help. A lot more personal than taking your RV to a shop that has "no one allowed past this point" sign posted.

Bottom line. I do it all myself with only the cost of materials most of the time. I have learned (the hard way) to get advise from others who have more knowledge rather than blundering along when I am not certain. Don't mind paying for it when I have to. What did Clint Eastwood say? "Every man has to know his limits."

To change a filter without mess:  First loosen with your strap wrench.  Then slip an adequate size Ziplock bag over the filter.  Spin off filter, letting fluid flow into the bag.  Dump fluid into your waste container.  Seal Ziplock bag and dispose of properly.  Voila!  No mess!

Pierce, as usual thanks for the detailed instructions. I will call Orielly and Walmart today to see if they take old oil and fluids. I know I can do the lube stuff myself. I'm having some back problems right now and don't really want to tackle it but your tips for the future are appreciated.

I'm not too excited about the Official Detroit shop based on my first phone call and pricing but they are also the Allison shop so to get the lockup checked out I probably need to go to them. What is the real story about checking out the engine. One of the posts said the 6V92 doesn't have a rack as suggested by the Detroit shop quote. I'm wondering if the service guy just didn't know much about a 60 series engine. Should checking out a 60's engine be easier and therefore maybe less expensive? 

Brett, your Ziplock bag suggestion is brilliant. I can't imagine why I hadn't thought of it. 

I agree.  the Ziploc bag technique is really great. 

Kent,

Our engines started life back in 1937 with the 53 and 71 series. The 92 series came along in 1974. The numbers indicated how many cubic inches each cylinder has so just multiply the number by 53 or 71 or 92 depending on series. I just recently found out about the 8.2 fuel sipper engine. The 60 series started life in 1987 and like the 8.2 liter, it is a four cycle but shares nothing with our 2 cycle engines. Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel) for a 10 minute read on the history of all the Detroit engines.

If anyone is interested, you can convert cubic inches to liters by going to Cubic Inches to Liters conversion calculator (http://www.metric-conversions.org/volume/cubic-inches-to-liters.htm)  or just plugging this formula into a piece of paper and pencil: 1 cubic inches = 0.016387064 liters

With tighter emission controls, Detroit got rid of the racks and went with all electronic engine controls including the fuel injectors. This system is known as DDEC for Detroit Diesel Electronic Controls.

The 2 cycle engine had more than twice the number of parts and was very expensive to build especially when labor cost were factored in. The newer 60 series 4 cycle engines were a little easier to bring in compliance with new EPA emission standards.

So, finally getting to the other side of the bush, you need to find where Detroit 2 cycles live in your town. Buses, fire trucks, generators featured many 2 cycle Detroits.  Amtrak buses made by Dina have the 92 series engines. Almost all Greyhounds and city buses were all Detroits at one time so you need to find guys that made the jump from the mechanical 92 series to the newer DDEC 92 series. This is a little harder as the 2 cycle is out of production and has been replaced by the 60 series 4 cycle engines. The test equipment is not that expensive, you just have to find a company or person that has it and knows what to do with it. So call around or better yet, stop in at engine machine shops, trucking, bus companies to get a lead on who to go to. The black art to making a Detroit run well is gone, at least for our engines. The computer/diagnostic guy reading the numbers is where its at now. Since the transmission is also computer controlled, he can read out temps, shifting points, etc. and also read out any stored codes in the computer. That is how Toyota found out the guy was faking the stuck throttle in Los Angeles in the Prius.

Why final drive ratio is so important: For every mile you go down the road, each piston has to travel so many feet up and down in it's cylinder. There is friction between part of the piston and rings and the cylinder walls. The less distance, the less friction. This goes for other engine parts as well and the energy it takes to spin them, etc. Lot of factors here like engine size, length of stroke, etc. but this is a pretty good rule of thumb: if you can go a mile, say at 2100 RPM (revolutions per minute here) and another guy with the same rig but lower numerical final drive ratio is only at 1900 RPM, he will generally use less fuel in that mile. The other term not to be confused is RPM meaning engine REVOLUTIONS PER MILE or can be expressed as piston feet traveled per mile.

I have noticed that my transmission temp is right with my engine temp when the trans is in lockup. You can see the intercooler underneath when you change oil. Around town at slow speeds, it climbs above the engine temp from the friction in the torque converter (that converts to heat). So, transmission lockup means less heat wasted with the savings translated into better MPG.

Hope I did not ramble on too much.

Always glad to discuss this stuff on phone.

Love that big ziplock idea when spinning off the filter. Excellent tip. What a forum! !

Kent, I'd suggest doing the bulk of the service yourself and find an honest to gosh specialty shop to. check/tweak the performance of your engine.  They're around but probably not your local Detroit shop, they're going to be more up on the latest and greatest, will be frustrated when they can't find the diag port to plug the laptop into.  Find a shop specializing in 2 strokes and they will make her sing  and fuel correctly.

Just changed the oil first time on my coach.  I could tell that it had last been done by a commercial shop because the hex head was somewhat rounded off on the  drain plug.  Spun a 6 point socket with a 2 foot breaker bar trying to remove it.  Finally got it out with a pipe wrench, breaker bar and engineers.  hammer providing impact shock, very little left of the head.  Typical.  Had I taken it to a commercial shop they would have nodded approvingly at the overtightened drain plug, inserted a vacuum sucker in dipstick tube and gotten out what they could before refilling. 

Does Oklahoma not collect a surcharge on new oil sales to fund disposal?  Thought it was standard pretty much everywhere. 

Chuck

Until recent hip problems I did my own service.
Last service I went to a small shop in the rear of a tire  store that I have dealt with before.  Made a deal with the owner, I would provide oil, filters, drain pan and free advice and he would charge me his hourly rate.
Cost me 75 Bucks , Young owner learned about MH's and possibly lined up a new source of revenue.
It never hurts to ask around.
Gary B

Thanks again for the tips. Thanks to Pierce I may have found a local mechanic that says he is a whiz at two stroke diesels. From California, Pierce was smart enough to check OKC Craig's list where this guy was listed under services. It turns out he lives 9 miles from me and has 20 years experience with diesel engines and Allison transmissions. Currently he has his own diesel service company primarily for the oil fields. He is due to come out Monday an check for any problems.

I even checked with a local Turbo Diesel supply house for a reference to find a two stroke tuner. They know just about everyone in the OKC area that work on diesels. They kinda laughed and said there really isn't much to tune on a DDEC 6V92 and they did not know of anyone to recommend. I hope this new guy works out.

I still haven't checked on oil disposal but I'm guessing that the leads given in the foregoing posts will work out. But again, I am physically not able to do that work right now so I hope the local mechanic will be reasonably priced.

We shall see how this goes. I know he will be cheaper than the Detroit Shop.

Gary, that's creative thinking. Getting old really sucks but where there's a will there's a way. I hate paying others for work I can do but when you can no longer do the work and Steve lives too far away to con into doing it for you, you just have to pay someone else.

Kent,

I would make sure that this person has the equipment that can read the engine codes.  If he is good he should be able to explain what each code means.  I would call FOT to find out the final drive (rear end) ratio.  I would be very surprised if Foretravel put in a high numerical ratio.  Please let us know what kind of luck you have with this guy so we can add him to our list if he is good.

If rear axle ratio is of interest, most axles have a small plate with the ratio on it along with the axle serial number.

Brett

Brett, I checked the plate. If I read it properly it is a RA 307 according to the plate. I have no reason to think either of the previous owners changed it.

Wonder if that is 3.07?

Remember with the 4 speed Allison, 4th gear is 1:1

VERY different than 6th gear on a 6 speed Allison which is .65:1.

Brett

I sure hope its 3.07. Sorry, I always had problems with those little dots. That was kind of bad in business, particularly when marking up new products. I'm pretty sure 3.07 is the standard differential ratio for this coach and engine combo.

Not surprising, 3.07 has been standard with the 4 speed and the 6V-92.

Kent, under the valve covers, you only have the valve adjustments and two fuel lines per cylinder to check for leaking, IE, if leaking they will put fuel into the engine oil, NOT GOOD.  Other wise, there is not much to the DDEC to check unless you want a scan on the computer or an update on the computer.  For me, IF you are not making oil, meaning not getting fuel in the oil, and it runs nice, smooth, I would not be in a rush to have someone getting into the valve covers unless you have a heck of a lot of miles on it, like over 150K miles.
FWIW and good luck
 Remember the ole saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is still true

That's kinda where I am on things but this local mechanic already has the valve covers removed and we are preparing to check and adjust the valves as needed. He's going to replace a leaky starter gasket and change the oil while he's here but I am not going to change the antifreeze or transmission fluid until after I get them analyzed. I'm pretty sure the Allison has TranSyn in it based on the description given by the Allison guy I talked to. This stuff is a little browner than regular red transmission fluid and it smells different, not burned but different. I have verified the 6V92 is a dry sleeve engine and uses standard antifreeze and requires no additives.

Thanks again to all who contributed.

Boy I learned a lot from this thread. Thanks to all.

Kent,

Thanks for the thumbs up! In checking the book, you should have a 3.07 rear axle ration. You verified it by checking the tin tag attached to it. Brett had an excellent post with the formula for your speed vs. RPM. It worked out amost exactly with my speedo and gps readings.

For others out there with 3.07 (or any ratio), here is a previous note to Kent:


The formula is: (Engine RPM x 60) / (Rear Axle Ratio x Tire Revolutions per Mile x Transmission Ratio) = MPH  You can look up the the Tire Revolutions Per Mile by doing a Google search for the info for your tire size. If you have a six speed, just stick the .65 or what ever it is in your manual/online in the equation. Using the Foretravel manual to find the ratios, you can do a quick calculation of the speed/engine rpm for any gear in your transmission.

If you know your engine RPM and speed, you can also work backwards to find your ratio.

Has the new mechanic checked to make sure the trans is going into lockup?

Kent, smart to do a trans analysis before changing. Don't know about the brown color. I have seen a dark brown/reddish color in transmissions with contamination or that got hot but they usually have a telltale smell.  Perhaps other members may have encountered a brown colored trans fluid?

If anyone suspects oil dilution, you can stick it and then walk into fresh air and smell the dip stick. If there is any diesel in the oil, you may be able to smell it (depending on your sense of smell). A good idea if you have a higher reading on the stick than you think you should.

For anyone reading the last paragraph in my last post, the oil dilution and sniffing the dip stick I was speaking about was for engine oil not trans. It just got me thinking about an earlier post so I tossed it in.

As always thanks again Pierce. I know what burned ATF smells like and this definitely does not smell burned, the analysis will tell the tale. I have used the local mechanic you found. He should be finished tomorrow with the top end. I also had a leak in the starter gasket which is needs to change. Other than that, everything looks pretty good.

The controversy over antifreeze has me confused. The mechanic says our engines are dry sleeve and don't need anything but regular or extended life antifreeze automotive antifreeze. I also spoke with the local Detroit Service Manager and he confirmed the use of regular antifreeze as did James Triana. However, Brett sent me a link to a copy of the Detroit tech bulletin that states it requires the SCA or DCA additives. What do you use in your U300.

Kent,

Have just been reading the site relating to different coolant types, use of the right water, lawsuits for false claims etc. Check it at: Forward - DEX-COOL 2007 (http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/Coolant_Makeup_Water.php)

The sleeves are only part of the picture. Radiator solder joints, water pumps, etc. are to be considered. As computers crunch the numbers, better and better products are seen on the market. The products you see today do an even better job than say, ten years ago and are easier on the environment.

Brett had a perfect answer for concentrated vs. 50/50 in the jug. I have RO water here at the house as the well water tastes terrible and spots the cars. I will fill a few containers with RO and rinse the system as earlier posts. When you add the concentrate doing it this way, you can control the final mixture easily. All auto parts stores sell percentage indicators of many types so you should have no trouble getting it to 50/50. This mixture protects down to -37F so temp should not be a problem.

All combustion chambers have "hot spots" where one area sees higher temperatures than the rest of the chamber. A water only or lower percentage coolant may allow the coolant to vaporize on the other side of the metal potentially causing damage or in a gasoline engine, pre-ignition. Another reason to check or replace the pressure cap (14 lb cap raises the boiling point considerably) when doing a coolant change.

And last, speaking of the environment, don't leave the old coolant in an open container of any kind. It tastes good to most animals and is usually fatal if ingested. Some creatures may even chew on a plastic container to get to it. Spouses have also been known to make lemonade from it for those who speed too much time or $$ on the RV.

To get to the other side of the bush, I will see what is on sale that meets the extended life and protection I need. Next week or so.

Make sure to get all air out of system when refilling. Some engine/cooling systems do it better/easier than others.

Out the door to photo the Robin Hood kids play. Later.

 

Pierce, what procedure do you suggest to get the air out of the 6V92 system when changing antifreeze?

Kent,
I'm going to jump in here and say for the 10 years I've owned my coach I've always heard and read that 6V92s were wet sleeve and to be very particular about the coolant.  For the spin-on coolant filter I use DD's "need release" to make sure the additives are up to snuff.  I'm curious if I'm wrong about the wet sleeve - I hope others will chime in one way or the other.

As far as getting the air out, I believe FT does it right by adding burp lines in the system.  They are small hoses (they look like pneumatic hoses because they have the same fittings) that vent air pocket areas back up to the radiator (or reservoir).  At lease I know my coach has these.  That said when I change my coolant I do find that I need to add a little bit more after a test drive.

The 71 series Detroits were dry blocks and actually the same size as the 92 series in outside dimensions. As I remember, they kept the same stroke but punched out the block and put wet liners in it. I think the liners contact the block up a ways from the bottom so that may be part of the confusion. Lots of problems with the green 92s, especially turbo models, but the silvers had block, head (dog bone ID mark), water pump, aftercooling, etc. changes that made them very reliable. I think the rod/main bearings are the same size and part number as the 71 series. I have heard that oil contamination from fuel can lead to main bearings spinning in the block in the 92s that make it an anchor so watch your dipstick.

We did have an 8V-71 in a new fire truck leak coolant into the combustion chamber. Bent a connecting rod on a start up and had a bit of vibration until we figured out something was wrong later that day. Replaced the rod and piston. Another had the tip of an injector blow off. Incredible black smoke out of that cylinder but the factory picked up the tab for both problems. The only other problems I heard about at the seminars were the early Jake brake models gradually loosening the fuel supply/return lines on the injectors  from vibration and diluting the oil in the pan. Thought that was addressed years ago but a good reason to check the oil every day while on trips to make sure nothing is being added to what is already there in the pan.

With a 19 to 1 compression ratio, they sure do start fast. No glow plugs either. Probably the reason for three start batteries.

 One guy was knocking Detroits to a another with one. The owner said when they get old, they age like a fine red wine. The other guy said they turn to vinegar. They did start life back in the 1930s.

John,

Yes, there are a couple of lines that go to the high points that might trap air and vent back to the black pressure tank with the radiator cap. Good eyes.