Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Barry & Cindy on July 08, 2011, 11:17:12 pm
Title: New Michelin tires
Post by: Barry & Cindy on July 08, 2011, 11:17:12 pm
We purchased six Michelin XZA+ 275/80R22.5 Load Range H from Herman Power Tires in Nacogdoches today.
XZA3 tires have been replaced by XZA3+ (plus). It is not known what changes there are on the new PLUS model, but they are still directional.
XZA3 in our size tire has been very hard to find. Looks like Michelin stopped production of XZA3 for many weeks months ago before it started up XZA3+. Tires were not available for over a month and are now on backorder again. Today Herman Power sold a set of six to MOT who will ship them to someone in Arizona or New Mexico who could not find them out there. Our tires were manufactured on May 10 2011 between 1pm & 10pm. DOT numbers are still only on one side of our new tires. The tire store told me that new auto tires now have DOT numbers on both sides, but the week-year date is still only on one side of new auto tires. Go figure that out.
The tire shop has a new type of dynamic spin balance that has a roller pressed against the tire during the spin to simulate tires under load, rather than free spinning. We have outward facing outside dual tire valve stems so our Pressure Pro sensor can face out. And their truck tire breakdown and balance machines have electric lift and movement so no one has to lift a tire to put it on the machine.
Nice to replace our 7 year old XZA3 tires.
Barry & Cindy
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: George Stoltz on July 09, 2011, 07:57:19 am
The tire store told me that new auto tires now have DOT numbers on both sides, but the week-year date is still only on one side of new auto tires. Go figure that out.
We have outward facing outside dual tire valve stems so our Pressure Pro sensor can face out.
Nice to replace our 7 year old XZA3 tires.
Barry & Cindy
Barry,
I'll hazard a guess that tire manufacturers don't want dates on both sides because that information can hinder sales if the tires sit in inventory too long.
Your outward facing valve stems on the dual tires is a real convenience. Too bad more dealers don't do this.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: wolfe10 on July 09, 2011, 11:45:30 am
The complete DOT number with date code is only on one side of all tires, because that part of the mold must be changed weekly. Changing the both halves of the mold would add no new information and just add to the cost of production.
Most competent tire dealers know to install the tires with the complete DOT code facing out/a readable direction.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: kenhat on July 09, 2011, 01:35:35 pm
Looks great. Do you mind sharing pricing? Also have you considered the Centramatic balancers or their ilk? Centramatic (http://centramatic.com/Home.aspx) I have a trucker friend that swears by em'. I like the idea that they are balancing the wheel, brake & axle while you're driving. Would be interested in your opinion.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on July 09, 2011, 03:09:57 pm
Ken, I have been running Centramatics for about three years now, love em. Started using them on the advice of Gary O on this forum and Willis H who owned a truck tire shop in Gadsden, AL. Gary B
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave Head on July 09, 2011, 05:39:49 pm
Anyone know which model number fits the '95 era' Foretravel with disk brakes? 600? 900?
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on July 09, 2011, 07:31:39 pm
Quote
Anyone know which model number fits the '95 era' Foretravel with disk brakes? 600? 900?
Dave Call Willis Horton, he is retired and now lives in FL but still sells centramatics. Tell him I said hello. 1-256-295-8270 Gary B
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Barry & Cindy on July 10, 2011, 12:37:00 am
Michelin XZA3 tires are directional, so there is no choice on which side to face out, so manufacturing week/year can be easily read.
We do not believe or recommend Centramatic continuous balancers. Every bump may throw wheel out of balance. Very hard to verify they are working. May be good or may be no-good at keeping a tire in balance. Certainly they have a passionate following. I have seen a truck tire alignment shop remove them to fix a problematic front end. But their claims & display are hard to beat at getting the job done by balancing all rotating parts.
Our Michelin XZA3+ LR-H 275/80R22.5 cost us $600 a tire out the door with mounting and Road-Force dynamic spin balancing on all 6 tires, purchased July 8, 2011. We were also quite satisfied at the quality of customer service and installation team.
Most of the time the same tire size should be used when replacing tires. Within a manufacture any "model" number will work as they are basically interchangeable. Other manufacturer's tires may fit just fine as long as the size is the same. Foretravel used Michelin for many model years. We recommend getting a higher Load Range if two are offered for the same size. XZA3+ is considered by many to be the best "model" for our motorhomes and they usually are the most expensive.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Neal Pillsbury on July 10, 2011, 11:05:22 pm
Barry and ALL,
My Michelin "B" series XZA1's were overdue based on age (9 years +). Although, absent knowing their age, three different Michelin dealers in FL felt that my tires were entirely acceptable and appeared to be less than 4, maybe 5 years of age (see the worst checking, of the 6 tires, in the attached photos below). By the way, the long check marks were not there when I left FL in May, so the age checking was definitely beginning to accelerate.
I shopped tires again this spring, in several shops from FL to NH and decided to wait until I got back to NH, primarily due to being able to use my son's tools and the NH tax advantages.
When I recently picked up on the FOFUMS mention of Willis Horton, I talked with Willis and eventually purchased a set of late '09 XZA3's from him. Willis felt that the "climate controlled, no sunlight exposure" warehouse storage had not significantly aged these tires and the final cost ($462/tire) was over $100/tire better than any price that I could negotiate from FL to NH (and was actually a few dollars better than when I last purchased tires in VA in the fall of 2002). I had nothing but positive dealings with Willis Horton and highly recommend his advice (256-295-8270)!
6 ea. XZA3 275/80R 22.5 14ply LRG (mfg. 2009/10 thru 12) (WH stored/no exposure to sunlight) $450.00ea. $2700.00 1 pallet Estes Shipping from AL to NH $225.74 6 ea. Dismount/Polish rims inside & valve stem seats inside and outside/Mount $20.00ea. $120.00 6 ea. New SS Valve Stems $5.00ea. $30.00 6 ea. Allowance for old tires (mfg. 2002/03 thru 05) $50.00ea. -$300.00 (Private Trucker) Grand Total: $2,775.74 (NH has no sales tax and I had no balancing, disposal or shop fees) ($462.60/tire) out the door
It's very interesting to see the various perceptions about tire balancing. Engineering wise, some of the wackiest I've experienced have been in truck tire dealerships. FWIW, I'd like to contribute.
My son has put more than a 1M miles on his trucks, is a respected (engineering) perfectionist, does all of his own maintenance and I've come to respect his knowledge and experience a great deal. He follows the engineering KISS principles, as I do.
He has used Centramatics, for much of his Million miles, without negative experience (unlike mechanical weights, Equal, Counteract, etc.). Baring gross defects in a new tire, a properly mounted, Centramatic equipped tire will be in balance by 20 to 22 MPH. An imbalance vibration can't generally be perceived until one is above 35 MPH. The balancers are slightly audible as soon as you move the vehicle (so you know they have not been breached and are working, if you are concerned) and they are remarkably "Satin Smooth" at speed, to the uninitiated.
Regarding road hazards/bumps inducing an imbalance condition, from an engineering and physics perspective, above 35 MPH the centrifugal forces far overcome and mitigate any shock induced displacement forces on the balance medium (the relative forces, centrifugal vs. lateral displacement, are in 25 to 1 ratio at 30 MPH, and around 95 to 1 ratio at 60 MPH). Thus, a road shock has no appreciable effect in creating an imbalance in the balance medium. The distortion of the tire (from the impact and the subsequent harmonic oscillation in returning to the normal loaded tire configuration, however is sensed and is immediately reacted to by the balancing medium's dynamic balancing forces. Mechanical weights cannot do that. The medium is shot-sized balls made of hardened alloy that is carried in a proprietary synthetic liquid within the balancing ring. The assembly carries an unlimited mileage warranty, and 1.5 M miles of use is not unheard of.
So, a change in balancing hardware got added to my thinking: 1 set 600-630 Centramatic (Steer) incl. shipping $225.00 1 set 600-640 Centramatic (Drive) incl. shipping $225.00
If there is anything to not like, it is that the Centramatics are slightly visible through the access holes in our Alcoa rims, and while they may be "simple dynamic balancing beautiful", they are not all that beautiful in appearance. I knew this going into my recent change. That cosmetic attribute had kept me from trying Centramatics for many years but the smoothness of operation is so dramatic that I'm freshly converted (over Equal and Counteract which I never had any negative experience with either - just use nitrogen, CO2 or very dry air - ALWAYS). I'll take the very slight hit in appearance in exchange for a balance that is continually adjusting (dynamically balancing) over all rotating assembly, road and speed conditions. From an engineering perspective, tires at work are not round all the way through each revolution, and no mechanical balancing leads to a perfect balance, other than at one specific RPM. That is the RPM at which it is balanced or the range over which it is averaged in today's balancing machine technology (an important compromise that needs to be understood).
To eliminate Pressure Pro Sensor variables (KISS again) I also did away with the valve stem extensions on my inner duals and turned the stubby new stems outward on the outer duals. Contrary to a previous post, Herman Power Tire Co. in Nac. does not have, never had, doesn't know of ever having seen inner dual long stems that are long enough to reach out through the access holes to mount our Pressure Pro sensors. As with several other tire stores, Herman PT Co. reps. (3) were great and worked with me (extensively) in trying to find some. If anyone has ever actually found single piece long stems that reach through the outer duals, it's beyond me being able to locate that person.
I made myself a little tool to install the PP Sensors on the short inner dual tire stems. It works great. I got the idea from Pressure Pro because they sell a "Sensor Installation Tool" for just $4.00. I just made one to save the shipping hassle.
So that's my recent saga. FWIW, Neal Very pleased now with six (or more) potential problems behind me
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Jim Frerichs on July 10, 2011, 11:46:15 pm
Hi Neal, Great testimony you've written. Out of curiosity, would you describe how you made your TMS installation handle?
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Neal Pillsbury on July 11, 2011, 12:02:51 am
Hi Neal, Great testimony you've written. Out of curiosity, would you describe how you made your TMS installation handle?
Jim, It's just a 3/8" socket, crutch tip, and 3/8" drive extension I'll take a couple of pictures tomorrow and post it back to you. Neal
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Bill Chaplin on July 11, 2011, 04:34:14 am
Mr Pillsbury, I upped your karma on that post. I have used the Centamatics on two motorhome for over 16 years. I find them to be as advertized.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Bill Chaplin on July 11, 2011, 04:45:18 am
Mr. Pillsbury. I have upped your karma on this posting. I have used the centramatic's on two motorhomes for over 16 years. I have never had a problem. The production facility is within in 5 miles of me. I have visited it several times with people who have purchased Centramatic after the visit.
On the duals I have the "Crossfire" inflaters. (does away with the long stem issue) The Centramatic keeps the complete assembly in balance. If you are not familiar with the Crossfire I will sent you the web site.
PS my wife was from Alton NH
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on July 11, 2011, 06:54:36 am
What do you do when the magic Centramatic's do not solve the balance problem ? Some days the shaking is almost tolerable, then you hit a bump and it takes a few miles to get back to barely tolerable, never smooth ? Wonder why I have no time for the Magic Powder and/or Magic Centramatics ? I had to be educated right from the hip pocket. Funny thing, every tire shop is an expert, however very few know what they are doing . ;D
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: George Stoltz on July 11, 2011, 08:40:01 am
Contrary to a previous post, Herman Power Tire Co. in Nac. does not have, never had, doesn't know of ever having seen inner dual long stems that are long enough to reach out through the access holes to mount our Pressure Pro sensors.
So that's my recent saga. FWIW, Neal Very pleased now with six (or more) potential problems behind me
So would the person who posted earlier that Herman Power had single piece stems for inside dual tires, please let us know what he has on his inside rear dual tires.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Barry & Cindy on July 11, 2011, 09:20:06 am
Glad you got a good price on 2009 tires. By the way, all tire rubber ages over time whether inside or out, but sunlight speeds things up.
When the tire is 7-10 years old based upon DOT date they should be replaced to prevent potential blowouts when driving. Better pre-sale storage environment does not extend the time.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dan Stansel on July 11, 2011, 09:57:24 am
OK I know this has probably been asked a million times but here is one more time. I get different answers. Do I take the tire pressure when the tire is COLD or HOT??? Pressure goes up after several miles of driving, so maintaining a certain pressure seems impossible ? DAN
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on July 11, 2011, 10:10:28 am
Cold :)
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: wolfe10 on July 11, 2011, 10:10:43 am
OK I know this has probably been asked a million times but here is one more time. I get different answers. Do I take the tire pressure when the tire is COLD or HOT??? Pressure goes up after several miles of driving, so maintaining a certain pressure seems impossible ? DAN
All tire company inflation charts are for COLD PSI ONLY. Cold is defined as "before driving" at whatever the ambient temperature is.
Brett
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dan Stansel on July 11, 2011, 10:14:45 am
Tks Brett. That clears that up. Got the coach weighed so now to put in the right pressure. I am thinking 100 in front and 90 in rear for now. After I get it loaded I will weigh it again and adjust.
DAN
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: jeff on July 11, 2011, 10:23:57 am
Question on ambient temperature. My pressure pros show 100 front 94 rear yesterday morning at 64 degrees. This morning P.P. show 106 front 97 rear at 72 degrees. I would be adjusting air on a daily basic. Same time of day so sun is not a factor. My thinking might be wrong. Remember who is posting.. :P :P
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: wolfe10 on July 11, 2011, 10:32:39 am
Jeff,
First, and most important-- SEND ME SOME OF THAT 64 DEGREE WEATHER. 102 here yesterday in northern Arkansas. Guess we haven't headed far enough north.
Yes, with large temperature swings, one could easily get carried away with tire pressure. Rough rule of thumb is that PSI changes 1 PSI for each 10 degrees F temperature change.
My suggestion is to understand the charts. All tire inflation charts give the MINIMUM PSI for a given weight. To keep from "over-thinking" it, many of us add 5 PSI to that minimum. That would cover you for a 50 degree F drop in temperature. More than that-- it might be time to move to a better climate.
Brett
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: jeff on July 11, 2011, 03:46:14 pm
Brett,
After a month in Nac we are staying in Leadville, Co. and this 60 degree temp for a month. Nac was brutal.
I understand the pressure charts and as soon as I get this coach weighed will follow your suggestions. I also know a number of owners who had the same question.
Thanks again.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Neal Pillsbury on July 11, 2011, 03:55:02 pm
Glad you got a good price on 2009 tires. By the way, all tire rubber ages over time whether inside or out, but sunlight speeds things up.
When the tire is 7-10 years old based upon DOT date they should be replaced to prevent potential blowouts when driving. Better pre-sale storage environment does not extend the time.
Barry, You are absolutely correct. Nothing can extend the lifetime (from the date of manufacture) and many, many things can shorten the lifetime, ultraviolet light exposure and ozone being two of the worst, beyond underinflation induced dynamic heating and impacting road hazards. Many owners are aware of the routine washing and tire protection product hazards as well. But it behooves us all to periodically review what the manufacturer says about caring for their tires. I attached what I use from Michelin. Following this safely got me 9+ years out of the last set. Neal
Hi Neal, Great testimony you've written. Out of curiosity, would you describe how you made your TMS installation handle?
Jim, In the attached pictures, you can see that I just bandsawed off the end of a $0.39 True Value Hardware store crutch tip, and slipped one end over an 11/16" socket. Then I just use a 3/8' drive extension as a handle to thread on the Pressure Pro TPMS Sensor. Now, one has to get down low to have a good view of the inner dual tire stem, and then be very gentle with the process, because one could easily cross thread or otherwise screw up the assembly, but if you are careful, it is easy to "feel" the thread engagement and easy to hear the dill valve expressing air as you near the seated condition. The modified crutch tip has plenty of holding power to apply and then, later, remove the TPMS Sensor. I put a tie wrap on the socket to keep the crutch tip from being pushed back as I push the tip on over the sensor during a removal. Neal
What do you do when the magic Centramatic's do not solve the balance problem ? Some days the shaking is almost tolerable, then you hit a bump and it takes a few miles to get back to barely tolerable, never smooth ? Wonder why I have no time for the Magic Powder and/or Magic Centramatics ? I had to be educated right from the hip pocket. Funny thing, every tire shop is an expert, however very few know what they are doing . ;D
Dave, What you are describing (vibration after hitting a bump) is a "Free" vibration vs. a "Forced" Vibration. Centramatics and balancing powders/beads cannot overcome "Free" vibrations that are not radiating perpendicular to the axis of the wheel hub. I grant you that vibration diagnosis (beyond first order harmonic "Forced" vibration), generally exceeds the intelectual capacity of the layman and the "Run-of the-mill" truck tire store. It isn't all that difficult though. Here's a good, free, primer that you might find interesting: http://tinyurl.com/6xboezx This is simple stuff as compared with the routine PM and CM Vibrational Analysis of large rotating equipment in Power Plants where the rotating assemblies can exceed hundreds of tons and the long term life of the equipment depends upon keeping total displacement down in the microns total displacement range. Neal
............................So would the person who posted earlier that Herman Power had single piece stems for inside dual tires, please let us know what he has on his inside rear dual tires.
George, I think that we need to have Dave M crawl under his 500 HP beast and take pictures for us. Under the "TPMS Questions" thread, responses 35 and 41, Dave mentions the Herman Power Tire Nac solution to our long term quest to find single piece tire stems (stems that are long enough to reach from the inner dual out through the outer dual access hole). I was elated at the news, but alas, it didn't pan out when I contacted Herman's. I've looked every way I can think of on the internet and worked with Alcoa reps and several tire stores to no avail. Dave -- I assume they put an extension on the stem that you didn't notice? Neal
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Kent Speers on July 11, 2011, 04:17:20 pm
Neal, glad to see you back posting on the Forum. You always seem to do your homework. Excellent posts.
Where do you get the Centramatics for that price and how do I know what size to order. I checked their web site and its pretty confusing.
Bill C, which ones did you order for your U300?
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: J. D. Stevens on July 11, 2011, 04:20:27 pm
... Yes, with large temperature swings, one could easily get carried away with tire pressure. Rough rule of thumb is that PSI changes 1 PSI for each 10 degrees F temperature change.
My suggestion is to understand the charts. All tire inflation charts give the MINIMUM PSI for a given weight. To keep from "over-thinking" it, many of us add 5 PSI to that minimum. That would cover you for a 50 degree F drop in temperature. More than that-- it might be time to move to a better climate.
Brett
Jeff,
Brett's advice, as usual, is excellent and succinct.
I normally check our tires whenever we experience a new, recent low ambient temperature. I verify that we are carrying the appropriate minimum pressure for a cold tire. At any higher temperatures the pressure will rise, but will not likely go above the maximum rating on the tire. My understanding is that the maximum pressure rating is based on a COLD tire. Don't release air from a hot tire! Base measurements on cold tires.
I generally check one or more tires each day we travel using a gauge to verify that pressures are tracking each other among the tires. I also "thump" the tires at almost every rest stop. I check the surface temperature at most stops with an infrared gauge to verify that they are consistent in temperature. A tire hotter that the rest has a problem.
My recollection is that the last time I added air was in Montana in December. Pressures remain in a reasonable range even in the 100F heat of summer in Texas. Morning temperatures are about 75F. Using the 1 PSI/10F ratio, 75F would raise the pressure about 7 PSI over the 5F temps in Montana. With normal gradual drop of about 1 PSI/month, pressures have remained in a proper range. I expect to add air when temps drop significantly due to weather changes or a change of location. I always check with a gauge if we experience a significant decrease in ambient temperature.
Enjoy the cool air. Breathe deeply and often in order to keep enough oxygen in the old bloodstream. :D
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Neal Pillsbury on July 11, 2011, 04:39:31 pm
...................Where do you get the Centramatics for that price and how do I know what size to order. I checked their web site and its pretty confusing.
Kent, I figured it out from my tire sidewall information and from the Centramatics website. But here's a much easier way. Just dial 256-295-8270 and ask for Willis Horton (and NO I'm not getting any kick-backs). Willis verified my Centramatics model # determination, had the two sets (Steer and Drive) delivered to me for the $450 and gave me all kinds of advice on what exactly to watch for during the installation process. The Centramatics are easy installs. It's the many things that a tire store can do wrong in mounting the tires that can do you wrong. I agree with Gary Bouland. Willis is a fine gentleman and someone that I wish I had discovered long ago! Neal
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on July 11, 2011, 04:46:05 pm
Neal, A couple comments, 1st - I am not educated with the free radicals with vibrations, I only know that when I gave up all the weighted powder and Centrama tics, removed the rim, vacuumed out the powder, washed the inside of tire, dried tire, put on a proper truck tire balance, checked for run out within specs, spun up, found what was needed, added weights where needed, did both front wheels, took for a 90 mph ride North on I-95, all smooth as the ole babies butt. So all the free radicals etc look good in the engineering classes I am sure, but in the my world, I go with what works, and it AINT powder or Centrama tics. AMEN
I am tickled pink for the users who love the Centramatics, I am too dumb to see the advantage when they just do not work for me. I leave the harmonics and free radicals for those interested. ;D
2nd, Yup, Herman Powers Tire, installed the long (NOT Extensions) stems maybe about a foot long, had to bend them to fit the hole properly in the Aluminum outer wheel. ( I do know the difference between extensions and the real thing)
How can it be that I got the only long stems in captivity on my coach ? Interesting huh !
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Bill Willett on July 11, 2011, 06:11:57 pm
Myers tire supply should have what we need. myerstiresupply.com
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave Head on July 11, 2011, 06:45:00 pm
I should drive through AL and 'get 'er done! on my next trip...
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: George Stoltz on July 11, 2011, 06:49:40 pm
My money is on Dave. If he says he got one piece valve stems, he got one piece valve stems. Dave know his stuff.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Pamela & Mike on July 11, 2011, 08:09:16 pm
How can it be that I got the only long stems in captivity on my coach ? Interesting huh !
Dave, Mike, Well, Guys, the mystery continues. I spent more time on the phone, this afternoon, with Herman Power Tire (Bobby, Frank and Greg). I've pestered them so much, I hope that they don't put up a roadblock the next time I'm anywhere near Nac. Frank remembered me from my previous questions a few weeks ago. They have 5" (approximate measurement) bendable and fixed angle Haltec tire stems that they regularly use on FT (and truck) inner duals. They can put up to 5" or 6" Haltec extensions on those with Alcoa vibration stabilizer inserts (donuts) in the FT outer duals. They don't recall ever having had, ever installing, or ever being able to order long, one-piece stems. While I was talking with them today, they called each of their suppliers and none of the suppliers could provide a source for obtaining single one-piece, up to 11" or 12" tire stems for inner duals. These suppliers said that they don't think that there is such an item. At least they don't know of any. There are longer one-piece valve stems for graders and loaders, farm equipment, etc., but the valve stem mounting holes in the wheels are of not compatible design.Frank agreed to keep looking and will get back to me if he makes any progress. If anyone can provide any other details, would you let us know? Thanks, Neal
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: J. D. Stevens on July 11, 2011, 10:30:08 pm
Herman Power installed the tires on our coach in April, 2010. They installed (or left on the wheels) the stems with extenders through the "donuts" for the inside wheels. The outside wheels have inward facing stems. It would be easier to check pressure if the stems extended outward, but there is probably a good reason they point them inward. The inward position may provide more protection from damage.
I expect the single piece stems that Dave has may be more reliable than the stems with extensions. However, the stems with extensions seem to work well for lots of folk.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Jim Frerichs on July 11, 2011, 11:14:19 pm
Quote
Jim, In the attached pictures, you can see that I just bandsawed off the end of a $0.39 True Value Hardware store crutch tip, and slipped one end over an 11/16" socket. Then I just use a 3/8' drive extension as a handle to thread on the Pressure Pro TPMS Sensor. Now, one has to get down low to have a good view of the inner dual tire stem, and then be very gentle with the process, because one could easily cross thread or otherwise screw up the assembly, but if you are careful, it is easy to "feel" the thread engagement and easy to hear the dill valve expressing air as you near the seated condition. The modified crutch tip has plenty of holding power to apply and then, later, remove the TPMS Sensor. I put a tie wrap on the socket to keep the crutch tip from being pushed back as I push the tip on over the sensor during a removal. Neal
Neal, You're ingenuity is amazing! I wouldn't have thought of a crutch tip to grasp the TMS sender. Good pictures too. Thanks for your advice and effort to explain it. This emphasizes, again, how valuable this group of dedicated owners are to each other. Jim
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Neal Pillsbury on July 11, 2011, 11:57:59 pm
1.............................but there is probably a good reason they point them inward. The inward position may provide more protection from damage.
2.............................I expect the single piece stems that Dave has may be more reliable than the stems with extensions. However, the stems with extensions seem to work well for lots of folk.
JD, 1. If the tires are not directional, one just reverses the inner and outer duals, in a standard rotation, to extend tire life. Because we have steel inner-dual rims and Alcoa outer-dual rims, we never do that, so the inward pointing valve stem is more nuisance than good. There's no reason to not change it out to a stubby, outward facing stem that is not as likey to be damaged by tire air chucks and tire gauges, etc. Dill valves are easily damaged and caused to leak if not depressed correctly (squarely). 2. With regard to valve stem extensions, let's be perfectly clear: for those of us with the Pressure Pro TPMS, it is of significant safety importance to minimize the possible sources of valve stem leakage. Like Dave and George, and maybe many others, if I had known how finicky the PP sensor seals are and how perfect the end of the valve stem has to be in order to prevent slow leaks, I definitely would NOT have purchased the system, especially when PP chronically blames the customer and denies the design weaknesses (including radio frequency interferences that lead some FT's to very low signal to noise ratios, while other FT's have very good (high) signal to noise ratios................from IR repeaters, inverters, converters and remote controls, among other things ). Read that as some FT's will receive signals from 100' away while others won't reliably receive a signal from 8' away, without installing an add-on ($100) signal repeater. However, to get back on target here, the inner dual valve stem extensions have several ways of creating slow leak problems when using the PP TPMS sensors. If one is not using a TPMS sensor that keeps the dill valve depressed and OPEN, all of the time, then the inner dual valve stem extensions are not of as much safety concern.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on July 12, 2011, 03:22:45 am
To add to The above post by Neal. While I and many others have had the issue with the slow leaking from the Pressure Pro sensors, Yesterday I learned that Foretravel has been using them on theri new coaches and they also had massive issues with the leaking of air, so they made a major issue with the PP folks. Now it appears that PP has redesigned the sensor adding an "O" Ring inside the sensor that is visable. It now seems the issue has been solved. The sad part is that PP always would tell you that you are too dumb to install such a simple thing. I have always claimed that they needed to redesign the sensor to solve the leaking issue. Now am told PP will not fix existing sensors, however the new ones have the update installed. Amazing how PP only hears Foretravel and not the massive complaints by individual users. Still think they are a low class outfit >:(
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: George Stoltz on July 12, 2011, 08:13:12 am
To add to The above post by Neal. While I and many others have had the issue with the slow leaking from the Pressure Pro sensors, Yesterday I learned that Foretravel has been using them on theri new coaches and they also had massive issues with the leaking of air, so they made a major issue with the PP folks. Now it appears that PP has redesigned the sensor adding an "O" Ring inside the sensor that is visable. It now seems the issue has been solved. The sad part is that PP always would tell you that you are too dumb to install such a simple thing. I have always claimed that they needed to redesign the sensor to solve the leaking issue. Now am told PP will not fix existing sensors, however the new ones have the update installed. Amazing how PP only hears Foretravel and not the massive complaints by individual users. Still think they are a low class outfit >:(
Dave: I gotta agree with you on this one.
Apparently, Pressure Pro does not realize that THEIR problem is really an opportunity to cement good customer relationships. For a $3.00 handling fee they could easily mail new seals to customers who ask and include instructions on how to make the change.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Pamela & Mike on July 12, 2011, 08:50:55 am
Neal, Just went out this A/M and pulled the donut and put a tape on the stem. They are approx. 6 1/2" to 6 3/4" long from the end of threads to the bend where it goes into the wheel. The threads just barley extend past the donut so you have to take care when you install the tire sensor to make sure it is seated off and not in a bind on the donut. I know this isn't much help and we can't get a pic. or look to see if there is a manufacture stamp without pulling the outside duel.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave Head on July 12, 2011, 09:48:35 am
Borg Tire Supply Dually Valve - Main Frameset (http://www.borgtiresupply.com/indexmain_frame-dv.htm)
Yes - long valve stems are available. No - they are not cheap. But you only have to do it once... As far as I know these are the only players in the game. I believe the DL4 kit is the one for us.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Paul Smith on July 12, 2011, 09:54:17 am
You might also try the Tire Man of LazyDaze fame:
http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~tire-man/products.html (http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~tire-man/products.html) We used him for our first Lazy Daze. Our 1999 U320 came with long stems.
best, paul
Quote
Borg Tire Supply Dually Valve - Main Frameset (http://www.borgtiresupply.com/indexmain_frame-dv.htm) Yes - long valve stems are available. No - they are not cheap. But you only have to do it once... As far as I know these are the only players in the game. I believe the DL4 kit is the one for us.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Neal Pillsbury on July 12, 2011, 10:52:39 am
Borg Tire Supply Dually Valve - Main Frameset (http://www.borgtiresupply.com/indexmain_frame-dv.htm) Yes - long valve stems are available. No - they are not cheap. But you only have to do it once... As far as I know these are the only players in the game. I believe the DL4 kit is the one for us.
Dave, WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Karma to you! Thank you! I've spent hours trying to overcome this mystery and find longer inner dually stems. How did you find this site and supplier? I need to improve and learn how to search more effectively. Thanks again. Neal
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave Head on July 12, 2011, 11:05:02 am
We had discussed it several months back. I hadn't bookmarked it, but it was still readily avail in my google memory banks... Click the motorhome link at the bottom of the page. I would still call them because there are several options on the front page for the 9" long kits (DL4xxx).
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on July 12, 2011, 11:28:40 am
This is why I laugh so much, Herman Powers shop in Nac, had and DID install the long stem on my left rear inside. The black man doing the the changing, said no problem, he went inside and got the long stem and installed it. Does sound like the left hand and the right hand at Herman Powers need to communicate a little more. Yes I think it is funny ;D and stupid when I am informed it could not have happened >:(
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: kenhat on July 12, 2011, 12:05:28 pm
Moved this to it's own thread Crossfire Dual™ Tire Pressure Equalization System (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=13129.0;topicseen). This thread is busy enough without another tangent!
Quote
Bill Chaplin mentions the crossfires earlier in this thread. Anyone else have experience / opinons on them? The theory sounds good but they sure are ugly! Function before beauty is my motto though. ;D
This is why I laugh so much, Herman Powers shop in Nac, had and DID install the long stem on my left rear inside. The black man doing the the changing, said no problem, he went inside and got the long stem and installed it. Does sound like the left hand and the right hand at Herman Powers need to communicate a little more. Yes I think it is funny ;D and stupid when I am informed it could not have happened >:(
Dave, If you mean me, I didn't mean to cast any disparaging words at you. I was frustrated that you could get a part from Herman one day and a few days later Herman knew nothing about the part (longer, single-piece stem). In way of background information, I have had several FT owners tell me that they don't have tire stem extensions on their inner duallies. Then when I crawled underneath, each time they in fact did have extensions, but the joint was so difficult to see from the outside, they don't realize that it is there. So, from remote, it seemed possible that they might have slipped an extension on your tire stem. I know. I should have known better! I'm obviously with you, that Herman Power Tire Service seems to have an internal communications issue (or a technician that is not using company parts).
Thanks for the FT Pressure Pro insights. I'm still scratching my head over an issue that I had with PP when we came north this May. We had a catastrophic blowout, a four inch square chunk, right through the steel cords, on a three year old Carlisle, LRE tire on our Featherlite. The PP system worked just as it should have and we were able to pull over immediately with no additional damage. I don't carry the necessary jack to lift a loaded tandem trailer with torsion axels, but I had a brand new spare and National Interstate road service had us underway within an hour. We put four new (US made) Carlisles on the trailer in Brunswick, GA. That's another whole story! The PP on the wheel, at the time of the blowout, never transmitted another good data packet, according to the PP monitor on-board troubleshooting data history. When we got back to NH, I got "Doug", the PP Operations Manager, to troubleshoot the sensor with me over the phone. He had me go through several evolutions and agreed that the sensor was dead. I shipped it back to PP . PP Called a week later and said there was absolutely nothing wrong with the sensor, and wanted a credit card number before they would send the sensor back to me. I talked with Doug again and he assured me that he didn't remember our prior conversation and although "WE" might have agreed that it could be nothing but a dead sensor on the phone, it had to be "MY misinterpretation" of our combined troubleshooting that was the problem. He was very anxious to end the conversation. He agreed to send the original sensor back to me and there was no shipping charge. When I got the sensor back, I had no trouble setting it up and getting a good signal and it has worked just fine ever since. Then I looked at the sensor more closely and (although I can't prove it) I believe that the sensor is a different one than I sent to PP. The one that I had sent them had several minor scratches and this one seems to be pristine new. It did not have the new "o-ring" seal, however, it seemed to have a fresh seal. I could very well be wrong, but........something seemed fishy. FWIW, Neal
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: George Stoltz on July 12, 2011, 01:58:13 pm
Perhaps Herman Power will once again have these in stock. They sure are missing a sale opportunity to upgrade Foretravel owners to these stems. I think the inward pointing valve stem on the outer rear tire is a big PITA.
Let the record show, I said Dave Metzger knew his stuff.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on July 12, 2011, 02:15:39 pm
Down George! ;D
I see I need to measure this rare one piece stem, as I recall, it came straight, no angle, no bent shape, the tire man just bent it around to fit the hole. Makes me wonder if it is used on another application that Herman Power serves, as they do a lot of road work for who ever like farmers etc etc. And the Brothers never thought of it as a good idea for the fools like us. ??
OK, I just tried to get a good measurement, and I am guessing the long stem from the steel inner wheel to where the PP would screw on is about 7 inch, maybe 8 inch max. The wheel is not positioned where I can get a good visual, but feel the above to be right.
As for the PP stuff, I have already formed a large negative opinion on that name, however if they are willing to provide (if possible) the "O" Ring or ? that solves the "Too Dumb issue" of leaks, it would do a lot for their future business in a positive way, if they want to keep it a deep dark secret, they are just driving good customers to other choices as I see it.
Below, $12.00 stem, just find what you want, search google lots of listings.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: P. Wyatt Sabourin on July 12, 2011, 05:31:25 pm
Michelin Tires: Herman's in Nac installed six Michelin XZA-1+ LR-G 275/80R22.5 tires in April 2010, the day after I purchased my 1996 U320 40 WTFE at MOT. I paid $2600 cash and Hermans installed the tires, balanced the two front and the spare (2003 Michelin XZE which was on the front right). The rears already had balancing rings which seem to work.
Spare Tire: The spare which came with my U320 is mounted on a steel rim which I believe I cannot use. The Alcoa manual shows different inner cap nuts (stud pilot rims) for steel than for aluminum. The outer cap nuts seem to be the same.
Question: Can a steel rim replace an aluminum rim on a Foretravel all aluminum stud piloted coach?
Michelin XZA-1+ verses XZA3: On one web site Michelin does not recommend the XZA-1+ tire for RV use, while on another site Michelin does recommend it. It seems that the XZA-1+ is for "long haul" (smooth surface), while the XZA3 is for RV (multiple surface).
Equal: (balancing powder). I used Equal in the tires of my SOB gas 32 foot class A. The front tires would get silky smooth after a few minutes of driving but would get very bouncey after hitting a rough spot on the road, then get silky smooth again after a couple minutes. The few seconds of intense bouncing bothered me, so, I removed it on the front and had the tires balanced. I left the Equal in the rear tires and it seemed to be OK. I would not use Equal in the front again.
Long Stems & Pressure Pro: I replaced the extension on the inside duals which were not well made and leaked. I purchased good quality replacements in Quartzsite last January from a truck dealer. I slide rubber tubing over the extensions so that there was a snug fit between the tube on the extension and the Alcoa donut. I also purchased short stems and had them installed on the outside duals. I use small, spin on, pressure gauges which just stay on the stems and allow me to check tire pressure with a quick glance at each of the six gauges. I also use an infrared temperature sensor to check all tire and brake temperatures at every stop. I am not convinced that the rolling tire pressure information provided by "Pressure Pro" is worth the cost ($ and trouble). If I have a blow out one day, maybe I will change my mind!
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Kent Speers on July 13, 2011, 08:51:38 am
Why would one not want to use thread lock, LockTite, on the union of the valve stem and the extension. Wouldn't that help stop any future valve stem leaks.
Wyatt, I would have agreed with you about a blow out until last December when my Towed had a blowouts on the front tires from road debris. By the time I figured out what was going on, I had well over $3000 in damage to my Subaru and a weeks wait for new wheel rims.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on July 13, 2011, 09:37:00 am
Kent, I feel it would be better to install a single stem for about $12.00 each. I have a link listed above where they are listed. Just a thought, to avoid all the issues with the extensions weakness. As usual FWIW Cheers
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Neal Pillsbury on July 14, 2011, 12:59:45 am
Why would one not want to use thread lock, LockTite, on the union of the valve stem and the extension. Wouldn't that help stop any future valve stem leaks.
Kent, For those who know that "the DEVIL may be hiding in the details", just a note of caution about using "bendable" valve stems (and other metal tubing). If it is not done correctly, "cold forming" metal tubing introduces weaknesses and/or defects into the base metal. At the molecular level, the outside bend radius has to yield and "stretch" while the inside radius has to compress and "wrinkle". Tubing bends formed in manufacturing processes are done several ways, but all of them, that I know of, involve mandrels, sometimes with heat added. Medium and thick wall tubing used in low pressure service can be cold formed (bent) without too much concern, up to 10 or 15 degrees of bend. Our inner duals require a tire stem bend in excess of 30 to 35 degrees. The common rule of thumb for tube bending, such as with brass valve stems, is to not use a bend radius of any less than a 1::4 ratio of the tubing's outside diameter. Valve stems tend to be 9/32" to 5/16" O.D., so 1.125" to 1.5" would be a reasonable minimum bend radius. Hand mandrels for ¼" tubing come in 1.0" and 1.5" sizes and go for $100 new, or under $40 used on eBay, or tube bending sleeves (for say, 3/8" tubing) are available at hardware stores. One could possibly use a tubing sleeve to bend over a 1.5" diameter pipe or other form. I mention all of this because: More than once I have seen truck tire shop technicians install a "bendable" tire stem in a wheel, grab a box end wrench, slip the stem through the box end and proceed to pry and reef away on the stem (with the sharp inner edges of the box end wrench) until they get it somewhere close to headed in the right direction. Then they put the wheel on the hub and finish the bending mutilation off by bending the stem by hand. I saw it just this spring in Brunswick GA and pointed it out to the owner of the truck. He made a commotion about it and the shop foreman spent time with the technician with a new stem and the proper tools. The shop had the tools but probably no clear expectations other than "turnaround time". Why is it that turnaround time in tire shops is so much more important than doing a job right the first time? Anyway, if you elect to go with "bendable" stems, bend them correctly yourself or be sure to watch that others do it properly. I much prefer single piece valve stems. That's why all the agony of trying to find them for the inner duals. But given the choice between a questionable or improperly formed "bendable" stem, and a rugged Haltec/Alcoa stem extension, with maybe with a little LockTite added, Kent, I'd definitely prefer the extension. At least I'd know that the "O"-rings or grommets are silicone or EPDM material, designed for high-temperature, commercial truck applications and are not made of rubber, as the "lowest-cost" suppliers are prone to use. And regardless of the stem material or how it is formed, always change out the tire valve stems when you change out to new tires, inspect and "coarse polish" the inside rim and stem seating surfaces and always keep the hand hole stabilizers properly in place, whether you use TPMS sensors or not.
Borg Tire Supply Dually Valve - Main Frameset (http://www.borgtiresupply.com/indexmain_frame-dv.htm)
Yes - long valve stems are available. No - they are not cheap. But you only have to do it once... As far as I know these are the only players in the game. I believe the DL4 kit is the one for us.
Dave I had e-mailed them angles, lengths, rim data, etc.
e-Mail and phone message back from them today. I'm not sure if it's bogus or not.
Message said they have nothing that will fit a FT.
They only sell in complete kits for specific vehicles and FT isn't one of them? ??? There must be something there that would work. I'll call a real person tomorrow.
FWIW, Neal
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave Head on July 14, 2011, 07:39:58 am
I would tell them its a pair of 22.5 Alcoa rims - no diff than a Country Coach, Monaco or any other decent sized diesel pusher. The DL4AC with the right sized stabilizer...
If there is anyone in the Northeast or wants to call Six Robbless as indicated in the link below, it appears these guys may carry them about 1/2 price to Borg... RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Questions About Dually Valves by Borg or Tire Man (http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/24520246/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1.cfm)
Worth a try, I suppose. Although the website listed Six Robblees (http://sixrobblees.com/) doesn't show them, It would be worth a phone call or email to find out!
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: PatC on July 14, 2011, 10:40:34 am
Alcoa Wheels North America: Products: Accessories: Heavy Duty Trucks - Valve (http://www.alcoa.com/alcoawheels/north_america/en/info_page/accessories_hd_valve_stems.asp) carries them too.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave Head on July 14, 2011, 01:12:36 pm
Nuthin there looking 9 inches long!
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on July 14, 2011, 02:24:31 pm
OOOH, I must have been robbed, My inside dual is a steel wheel/rim, souynds like all the others have the Alcoa Aluminum ? Trick is use a protector between the outer rim and the steel inner rim ;D
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Barry & Cindy on July 14, 2011, 03:11:08 pm
Our coach and every other that I have seen have steel inside rear dual wheels to save cost. Outside dual wheels are only polished on dished-in side that faces out. Front wheels are only polished on dished-out side that faces out. So wheels are only interchangeable by swapping them from one side to the other on the same axle. Any other rotation pattern requires dismount and remount of tires on wheels. We don't rotate anymore.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Pamela & Mike on July 14, 2011, 05:06:07 pm
OOOH, I must have been robbed, My inside dual is a steel wheel/rim, souynds like all the others have the Alcoa Aluminum ?
Dave, When we owned our '92 U240 and now on our '97 U320 they both have 6 Alcoa's.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on July 14, 2011, 05:38:46 pm
The best thing about this one, now we all know there are differences, so one answer does not fit all questions. Aint That Great !
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: P. Wyatt Sabourin on July 15, 2011, 10:44:30 am
I looked at the specification sheets on Barrry's website and saw the following: 1997 U270 - four Alcoa rims
1997 U295 - six Alcoa rims 1997 U320 - six Alcoa rims 1994 U300 - six Alcoa rims 1994 U240 - Alcoa rims (no number).
So it appears that some Foretravel motorhomes do have steel rims, depending on year/model.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Jim/Sandy Black on July 19, 2011, 10:28:41 am
We just met a young couple at Lazydays in Tampa with a brand new Tiffin that just had two blowouts on brand new Michelins. They had JUST reached the bottom of a mountain when the front tire blew or they would have rolled down the mountain. Yes I said 2. One front tire and one back tire. This couple has 6 young children. Set of twins,11, set of triplets ,9, and a single ,7. Best behaved children that I have ever seen. They told us Michelin would not do anything. I think Tiffin replaced them however. Michelin has always been our choice, BUT we are considering something else now.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Michelle on July 19, 2011, 10:40:55 am
We just met a young couple at Lazydays in Tampa with a brand new Tiffin that just had two blowouts on brand new Michelins. One front tire and one back tire. They told us Michelin would not do anything.
Even new tires can blow if the sidewall was weakened due to curb damage, overloading, or under inflation. Many new RVers (and some RV manufacturers) overlook the latter 2; just because you have the room doesn't mean you have the carrying capacity. Without knowing all the details, it's impossible to say if the tires alone were the problem.
-M
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: PatC on July 19, 2011, 10:51:40 am
We just met a young couple at Lazydays in Tampa with a brand new Tiffin that just had two blowouts on brand new Michelins. One front tire and one back tire. They told us Michelin would not do anything.
Even new tires can blow if the sidewall was weakened due to curb damage, overloading, or under inflation. Many new RVers (and some RV manufacturers) overlook the latter 2; just because you have the room doesn't mean you have the carrying capacity. Without knowing all the details, it's impossible to say if the tires alone were the problem.
-M
Just get a big rock stuck between the rear duals and driving that way, and see what happens. You will end up having to buy, not just one new tire, but two of them. Don't ask me how I know about this, lets just call it experience talking.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: hotonthetrail on July 19, 2011, 11:06:05 am
What would the tuffest tire that could be used,considering the suspension system on FT can absorb a lot of punishment? jc
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on July 19, 2011, 11:15:24 am
JC, That opens a wide area, for the tuffest tires, you would not want them on your coach, they are only good for sharp rocks, not a happy highway tire. Of course EVERYONE has an expert opinion on this one, so I will just shut up and stick to the old dumb Michelin set that has been good to me. ;D
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Kent Speers on July 19, 2011, 06:51:54 pm
I can just share what my local truck tire dealer said. Michelins blow out the most but last a long time if they don't. Bridgestones wear out the fastest but seldom blow out. BFG's have the best overall performance. He had no info on Cooper or Toyo or the other less popular brands. He was a Michelin dealer but handled all the brands. I chose the BFG's on my U225. FWIW!!!
By the way, I have Michelins, all steering tires, on my U300 because that's what came on the coach. I just keep them fully inflated at 105 as recommended by that dealer. So far, so good but only 7,500 miles on them.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on July 19, 2011, 08:43:42 pm
Michelins do have a very flexible sidewall. Nice ride but I had a front driver's side blow out on my MBZ 406D van with an almost new set on. No warning, just a funny noise for a second and then a big noise. Going 70 and it really took off toward the side of the road. All MBZ S Class come with at least V (149 mph sustained) rated tires (Michelin for all our dealer cars) in Europe. They are really a heavy tire and very stiff. Drove them flat out most of the time (unless heavy traffic) without a single problem. So, a lot of different Michelins with different specifications.
Our U300 came with Coopers. We also had them on all fire apparatus and cars. I remember a guy swiped the chief's car and took the city cops on a 100 mph plus chase. ALL the city cop cars had blow outs. Took the highway patrol to catch him.
Coopers have a stiff sidewall so a little harder ride but never heard of one blowing out. 20K on them now. The seller ruined one the day we bought it and another got a bad cut but the other four are wearing well.
Worked for a Citroen dealer after school when I was a kid in the late 50's. They had 16" wheels with Michelin X stop tread. What a great tire (and car). Stuck like glue and lasted forever.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Ron & Connie Sedgley on September 09, 2011, 12:36:47 pm
Our tires were manufactured on May 10 2011 between 1pm & 10pm. Barry & Cindy
Barry - I understand the week of May 10th, 2011, but was it a bit tongue-in-cheek to say specifically May 10, 2011 between 1PM & 10PM"?? ??? :))
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Barry & Cindy on September 09, 2011, 10:31:41 pm
In this case, the manufacture time of day of our new Michelin's was posted for general info, not for humor. Time of day was taken from stickers on the tread of each tire, which I always peel off myself and hold on to.
Title: Re: New Michelin tires
Post by: Horace B. Cupp on September 11, 2011, 01:09:12 pm
I sure am glad they make chocolate AND vanilla ice cream.