We heard about a Foretravel motorhome that installed a Banks Stinger kit for their Cummins C-8.3 engine to increase power. Banks Stinger Kit did increase power a lot and also the miles per gallon from 7 to 9, BUT the higher turbo pressures caused a 6 inch crack in the intercooler. It seems that increasing power which increases boost to 29 inches may be to much for some of the older intercoolers causing them to crack open. Higher boost pressures also causes higher exhaust temperatures which must be monitored all the time to avoid engine damage. It was finally time to remove the Stinger kit and return to going slower up mountains.
Banks Power | 93-98 Cummins - B5.9L & C8.3L>>Stinger® System (http://www.bankspower.com/products/show/206/56)
Barry, Very interesting info, not surprising about the Banks kit. There is no such thing as free or cheap power. This is why with my ISM change from the 450 @ 1450 rating to the later 500@1550 rating was done at Cummins with Cummins blessing. The increase from 26psi to 32psi boost is within Cummins specs.
The cost from the Cummins shop was $3250.00 all Cummins parts and ECM program.
The actual cost of changing the exhaust from the Cowl muffler the the Walker resonator was about $350.00.
So far no cracked CAC, no damaged rear, transmission, nor radiator. Fuel mileage has increased and mountains have gotten less restrictive.
Again this was not a Banks wannabe.
FWIW
The early intercoolers were pathetically built (and that is being kind). Mine was already cracked when I installed the Banks kit in my 93 U280. The Unihome intercoolers were two coolers butt welded together end to end with end caps of welded plate steel - they weigh about 40 pounds. The radiator place I took it to laughed at it.
Good news is the replacement (about 1500 pls shipping -125 pound truck freight, plus install - that price is 5 years old) is the U320 and it will take anything. Cast aluminum end caps, 30% larger (taller and wider) and weighs over 100 pounds. Dont put it in yerself. Oh, and there's a 6 week lead time.
One little bit, on the newer engines with the EGR, a bad EGR can make the engine act like a bad CAC leak plus other low power issues. Brother had the ISM 500 w/EGR, problem acted like a bad turbo, lots black smoke and nor power. A sharp Cummins man found the EGR as problem, was replaced, now the engine ran much better than it ever did, more power and better fuel burn. SO keep your head clear on issues, lots of things can happen that look like something else.
my 2000 has had a Stinger on the 8.3 for 3 yrs (2 before I got it) and there has been no problems and I push it pretty good. Climbs hills a breeze and around 9.6 mpg according to both VMSpc and my calculations. Hopefully on the next trip since taking out muffler I see it better but not really worried as I know it has to be breathing better. I intend to keep my eye on a few things once we get on the road to be sure.
I think our 1997 U295 with C8.3-325 has a banks stinger. I found documents in the coach, and it has pyrometer and boost gauges. We have put over 12K miles on, and the coach had maybe 66K when we bought it. (Speedometer/odometer had been replaced.)
We've had no problems so far. I don't recall the boost pressures. We watch the pyrometer when climbing. A few times we've seen it approach 1350F. We start backing off the throttle at that point to keep temps below 1300F. I've never seen it leave any significant amount of smoke. I've not seen the water temp climb above 190F.
Mileage is 7 mpg +-. I make no corrections or accounting for generator fuel consumption.
Think any cracking was the result of either poor intercooler construction, badly designed mounts and or vibration. Any increase of pressure is not likely to cause cracking. We ARE talking about inches. My opinion.
Bank's kits are just plain expensive, you can do the same thing to a 8.3 mechanical for less than a grand, add boost gauge and pyro, change waste gate and move the fuel plate, banks gets the turbo housing from Holset,it is an HX45.
When you Hot Rod an engine, IE, more fuel and boost than what is approved for the engine seems just dumb, unless you are aware of the issues surrounding the important points such as temp of exhaust / inlet temp to intake. Without a pyro gauge on the exhaust and turbo boost gauge and knowing what the limits for the engine are, you are playing an expensive game.
Just maybe there is a reason the engine manufacturer posts the limits for each engine. Maybe they know more about their engine than some hot rod outfit promising big power for little money.
I do not believe in the free lunch.
Its your money, enjoy, but don't cry when it gets costly. :(
Just another opinion from being educated. I have melted more than one large diesel engine in the hot rod game, loved the massive power but it always has a cost, pistons, rings, heads, bearings etc. Enjoy.
Before you rely on the pyrometer gauge, look to see if it is sensing temp before turbo or after. Makes a big difference on how hot you can run.
That is correct, that is why the temps are spec'd as inlet or outlet turbo temps. makes a big temp difference, generally about 300f difference. U Bet.
I thought Banks Stinger kit was only for Cummins C8.3 used until 1998, not ISC engines.
I learned the Foretravel with the Banks Stinger kit problem had a newer all-aluminum charge-air-cooler which weighted at least 100 pounds and it cracked open on the left end-tank. Cooler was removed, welded up and reinstalled.
here is a copy and paste from their web site
Stinger® System
8.3L ISC PUSHER: Banks Stinger adds +92hp @2200 rpm, right where you're looking for high-end speed. But, the power you really feel is torque, and Banks Stinger matches the peak torque output of the stock engine (1050 lb-ft @ 1400 rpm), and holds that level through the prime driving range, with a top gain of 219 lb-ft @ 2200 rpm. Banks' method puts out significant muscle for Cummins ISC 24-valve motorhomes with standard auto transmissions, without challenging the unit's durability. Stinger's BigHead actuator gets the factory-turbo "on boost" faster and holds on to it, while the OttoMind precisely calibrates fuel for more power and safe EGTs.
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It was installed by Banks so I guess it must be right??
John
The ISC version automatically adjusts boost for a given EGT.
I agree with Dave M, more power comes at a cost over and above the price of the kit. I have broke my share of motors both gas and diesel playing that game, and don't forget your transmission torque capacity. It's fun while it lasts, not so much when it breaks. If you need more power just get a bigger engine. If you can get all that extra power out of a 8.3 or 8.9 liter motor wonder why they make a 15 liter. But thats just me.
I bought a frame damaged Ford 7.3 PU with a new "dealers diesel" turbo non-computer engine with 5 speed in it to put in my old Southwind. Flew back to Min/St.Paul to drive it home. Got to the big fuel station just west of Salt Lake and fueled along with 50 other PUs. As I left, a Dodge PU with a LONG aluminum horse trailer behind was on the on ramp just ahead of me. He smoked more than a rocket on takeoff but left me like I was standing still. Still amazed how quick it "was". As I was getting ready to turn off for Winnemucca, Nevada, there he was by the side of the road with the hood up and oil on the ground.
What "one liner" says it best?
Pierce, Loved that one, I wonder how the engine swap turned out with the Southwind / 7.3 Turbo ? Makes me think when I had a 71 F250 with the 360CID F1 family Ford (Lousey engine-valves), went with a 4-53 Detroit, my first experience in playing musical engines.