Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Renovations => Topic started by: Rudy on August 20, 2011, 04:30:09 pm
Title: Residential fridge
Post by: Rudy on August 20, 2011, 04:30:09 pm
Steve,
I along with Jerry Elkins have replaced our Dometic with the same one Barry and Cindy used.
The old and new fridge went in and out through the 24 inch front door with no window R&R needed.
The fridge cost $359 at Lowes. Jerry did his own work and I paid my local RV repairman $300 for my install which included an trim piece to close a gap from the difference in the size of the fridges.
Works great on my inverter/charger and two 4D batteries. Keeps my Blue Bell ice cream nice and firm in the 100+ degree temps we are enjoying.
Hope this helps you.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on August 20, 2011, 05:10:18 pm
Thank you all for the replies.
So, $359 for a refrigerator, that draws 3 amps? Hmmm... sounds good to me - a lot cheaper than any propane powered models I've looked at. And they have fans. ;D
Seems many new coaches are going all electric. I still prefer cooking with a flame, and heating with same, but for the refrigerator, especially after reading posts regarding issues keeping them cool in extreme heat, make me think a residential unit might work out better.
So does one end up removing the existing refrigerator roof vent when making this change? I'm sealing and coating the roof next week, so if it does come off, I may have to make a decision on the refrigerator sooner than I thought. Thanks.
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Michelle on August 20, 2011, 05:40:45 pm
I along with Jerry Elkins have replaced our Dometic with the same one Barry and Cindy used.
The old and new fridge went in and out through the 24 inch front door with no window R&R needed.
Works great on my inverter/charger and two 4D batteries. Keeps my Blue Bell ice cream nice and firm in the 100+ degree temps we are enjoying.
Now all we need to find are some folks who've replaced the larger NDR-1492 with a comparable-or-better capacity residential unit that fits without significant remodeling (or loss of the storage below the fridge).
Michelle
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: J. D. Stevens on August 20, 2011, 05:49:33 pm
In looking at the specifications for the on the Lowe's site, installation requirements include:
"To ensure proper ventilation for your refrigerator, allow for a 1/2" (1.25 cm) space on each side. Allow 3" (7.5 cm) of space between overhead cabinets and refrigerator top. Allow at least 1" (2.5 cm) between back of cabinet and the wall. If you are installing your refrigerator next to a fixed wall, leave 2" (5.08 cm) minimum on the hinge side (depending on your model) to allow for the door to swing open. If your refrigerator has an ice maker, make sure you leave some extra space at the back for the water line connections. NOTE: Do not install the refrigerator near an oven, radiator, or other heat source, nor in a location where the temperature will fall below 55°F (13°C)."
Have you users of this 'fridge experienced any problems or issues with respect to those installation requirements? Where are the exterior coils? Are they on the back and exposed the the same cooling chimney as the absorption 'fridge?
Our local ambient temperatures are 100+ in the afternoon. The back of the fridge could be exposed to some high temperatures. Rudy reports cold ice cream in spite of that. Also, we travel some in the winter and experience outside temperatures to -10F. Have you experienced such conditions with the Whirlpool replacement?
So far our Dometic unit has worked well throughout the range of conditions we have encountered. I expect it is original equipment. I want to be informed in case we need to make a change.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Paul Smith on August 20, 2011, 05:52:24 pm
I'll say. I replaced a 1492 in our U295 for $3K, and it not only didn't cool well in hot weather, the mfgr refused to honor the first year warranty. I've got 3 8D Lifelines that keep begging me for more exercise.
best, paul
Quote
Now all we need to find are some folks who've replaced the larger NDR-1492 with a comparable-or-better capacity residential unit that fits without significant remodeling (or loss of the storage below the fridge).
Title: Barry and Cindy's residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on August 20, 2011, 07:00:36 pm
Barry, Thanks for the info, I sure need it. Is there any chance you could take a snap shot of your new refrig, I think it is a top freezer ? Thanks Dave M
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on August 20, 2011, 09:14:36 pm
I looked at the Lowe's site as well. The reviews seem mixed - some loved them, but hadn't had them long, with one exception, others hated them as they were noisy, didn't last long, and were throwaways.
I spent a little time learning about these propane burning wonders, as I really didn't understand how they worked. Something I did not know - they have no moving parts. That might explain their longevity. I am wondering how long a refrigerator meant for stationary use might last in a mobile application. I have to think the Dometic/Norcold/whomever engineers would add bracing and beef up parts to take the bumps and vibrations of a moving vehicle (at least I hope they would), among other considerations.
I then looked at Norcold AC/DC refrigerators. The biggest one they make is 7.0 cu ft (a wee bit smaller than the one I have now), vents itself at the top, and draws only 3.2 amps @ 12v --> DE-0061/EV-0061 (http://www.thetford.com/HOME/Products/NorcoldRefrigeratorsHome/DE0061EV0061/tabid/197/Default.aspx) . A quick search showed a best price of $1200. This is more of a conventional fridge with a compressor. Two year warranty.
Most of the residential models I looked at only offer a 1 year warranty. Very disappointing. The unit I bought in 2000 came with a 5 year warranty. The ancient fridge in my grandmother's kitchen, although needing defrosting with an axe, was over 50 years old when she passed, and still working. Progress...
Going to dig deeper. The AC/DC model makes sense for a coach with solar added. No propane used.
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on August 20, 2011, 11:15:49 pm
Steve, I used a househ0old refrig (from Sears) in my MCI Bus conversion for 20 years, it still works fine the new owner tells me. Loved the ice maker, frost free and had top freezer. Do not remember the size but it was plenty big enough. It stayed working 24/7/365 for the 20 years, when I left home, the generator ran 24/7. Did not have a large fancy battery/inverter system like I do now. It was large enough for the TV system, furnace etc but never tried the refrig on the battery setup. Think is was a Whirlpool brand name, that is a guess.... Good luck
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Rudy on August 20, 2011, 11:22:08 pm
Steve,
My RV repair man has replaced over 50 fridges with the Whirlpool over several years and has had no call backs. We experience temps down to the upper 20s here but not down to -10.
One could place insulation over the access door and in the chimney vent to hold outside temps out similar to the wall insulation elsewhere.
At $1200 dollars for a smaller fridge, I could throw mine away three times. The Danfoss 12v compressor used in the Norcold is fine compressor.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on August 21, 2011, 06:38:01 am
I'm rebuilding a 1995 u320 that suffered a refrigerator fire. You can bet that a residential unit will go in when Yhe damage is repaired.
Title: Re: Barry and Cindy's residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 21, 2011, 01:28:33 pm
Our new electric refrigerator:
Lowe's: Whirlpool 9.6 Cu. Ft. Top Freezer Refrigerator (Color: Black) Item #: 267489 | Model #:ET0MSRXTB We now make ice cubes twice a day instead of every other day. Cools down much faster and stays cold in very hot weather. Freezer is 54% larger and refrigerator is 22% larger for a total 29% more inside space. We are very pleased with this fridge.
Delivery is free and military get 10% discount. We hear Lowe's may carry it in through motorhome door and change fridge door hinges to other side. We requested that original packing material be left on for protection while being moved. We removed side window and used a forklift to place inside. Refrigerator is not heavy and two of us could lift it and place it in cabinet. We did the installation ourselves.
This model fridge uses desirable 'old-fashioned' rear condensor coils with gravity air flow for cooling which is much better for RV installations. Newer designs use a bottom amp-drawing fan-driven condensor coil that blows warm air back into living space. And some of these bottom designs use the side of the metal cabinet to dissipate heat. Outside side and roof vents are left in place to vent the rear condensor and for access to rear. I don't think side air space is needed as the sides do not get warm. These standard instructions probably refer to bottom condensor coils.
Cost about $350 and comes in several colors including stainless. Size is about 24" x 60" and fits in the same space as our propane fridge with minor modification to cabinet.
Creativity is needed to fashion door lock for traveling and to fasten fridge in place to keep if from moving and to seal front edges to cabinet. Inverter outlet is needed behind fridge.
Measured electric usage over several months of use is about 50 watts per hour or 4/10s amp of 120-volts or 4 amps of 12-volts.
Title: Re: Barry and Cindy's residential fridge
Post by: Peter & Beth on August 21, 2011, 01:43:23 pm
Lowe's: Whirlpool 9.6 Cu. Ft. Top Freezer Refrigerator (Color: Black) Item #: 267489 | Model #:ET0MSRXTB We now make ice cubes twice a day instead of every other day. Cools down much faster and stays cold in very hot weather. Freezer is 54% larger and refrigerator is 22% larger for a total 29% more inside space. We are very pleased with this fridge.
Delivery is free and military get 10% discount. We hear Lowe's may carry it in through motorhome door and change fridge door hinges to other side. We requested that original packing material be left on for protection while being moved. We removed side window and used a forklift to place inside. Refrigerator is not heavy and two of us could lift it and place it in cabinet.
Cost about $350 and comes in several colors including stainless. Size is about 24" x 60" and fits in the same space as our propane fridge with minor modification to cabinet.
Creativity is needed to fashion door lock for traveling and to fasten fridge in place to keep if from moving. Inverter outlet is needed behind fridge. Measured electric usage over several months of use is about 50 watts per hour or 4/10s amp of 120-volts or 4 amps of 12-volts.
Barry, Can you elaborate on the remodeling needed and the exterior opening and hatch modification if any? Does the outside opning need to be "weatherized", closed-up?
Title: Re: Barry and Cindy's residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 21, 2011, 02:56:01 pm
Barry, Can you elaborate on the remodeling needed and the exterior opening and hatch modification if any? Does the outside opning need to be "weatherized", closed-up?
We kept the new Whirlpool fridge on our motorhome floor for a week or so we could take our time removing the propane fridge and preparing the opening. Also Lowe's will take it back within one week, so we wanted to know how it sounds and if it works. We later removed our propane fridge the same way the Whirlpool came in although the old fridge would fit through the door with rear absorbtion cooling unit removed.
Right side of cabinet had to have the 3/4" edge routed off from top to bottom to give us our needed 2' wide opening. There is plenty of room inside the cabinet. Just our cabinet front was too narrow. Narrow slot in cabinet just above hinge bracket had to be cut out as this is the tallest part of the fridge and would not fit in the 60" tall opening. We cleaned up, put in some extra solid Styrofoam and sealed and painted the inside the cabinet.
We ran a new #12 Romex cable to a new inverter outlet behind fridge as our original only had an outlet that was not on inverter. Other end of cable has a 15-amp male plug that plugs into a new inverter bedroom outlet in a cabinet. Plug allows easy measurement of fridge electric usage with a Kill-o-watt meter. Plug also allows future flexibility to power fridge on a small inverter if desired. Our main inverter is a true-sine wave which may be desirable for running fridge fans and compressor.
We bolted 1/4" thick aluminum 'runners' under left and right side that stuck out about 4" to the rear of fridge. We later bolted rear of runners down to floor from behind fridge to keep fridge from moving while driving. We put a piece of 2' square weld steel plate on cabinet floor for reinforcement. Steel and aluminum are standard Lowe's metal parts.
We tried several things to seal the edges of the fridge to the cabinet to keep the weather out, but ended up with strips of electrical tape along sides and top. Bottom is more open so we used packing foam blocks cut to fit. We made a removable metal bracket that sticks out between doors and put in a pin to keep doors from opening while driving.
We use a Chaney wireless thermometer to monitor inside temps and to give us an alarm if too low or too high. We left outside side and roof vents in place to remove heat and have access to rear of fridge. We also were not 'sure' about how electric would work out and spending less than $350 on the Whirlpool was no risk if we changed our minds, so outside vents were left. But we think we will NEVER go back to gas. More space, more safety, more cooling for a lot less money.
A switch could be put in place to temporarily disable freezer auto defrost heating element during dry camping nights to minimize electric draw. We ran a small fused wire from rear compressor to inside of motorhome to power a small neon lamp to let us know when compressor was running.
Title: Re: Barry and Cindy's residential fridge
Post by: Peter & Beth on August 21, 2011, 03:27:20 pm
Thanks Barry for the installation details. I was reading some of the "reviews" by Lowes customers who mostly thought the unit was "noisy". But my hearing is not as good as it used to be so it doesn't matter to me. ;D
I agree that for fultiming, the all electric approach makes a lot of sense for safety and cost. The defrost feature alone is reason enough to make the switch.
Title: Re: Barry and Cindy's residential fridge
Post by: J. D. Stevens on August 21, 2011, 03:30:17 pm
What an excellent description by Barry & Cindy, of the replacement of their refrigerator. Thank you.
Title: Re: Barry and Cindy's residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on August 21, 2011, 03:37:46 pm
Barry, Many thanks, I do like the entire idea. As long as this original works, will stick with it, but as first sign of problems, its a goner.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Michelle on August 21, 2011, 04:33:52 pm
A more complete discussion on electric refrigerator is being carried on under the Technical topic: Dometic Elite RM1282 Refrig.
I would recommend this "Residential fridge" topic be moved to Technical and the electric refrig postings in "Dometic Elite" be merged under the "Residential fridge to replace original?"
2 splits, one merge, one move completed.
-M
Title: Re: Barry and Cindy's residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 21, 2011, 07:27:34 pm
We consider the fridge to be very quiet. We never hear it running. And Cindy just mentioned, "we don't defrost anymore".
Many Foretravels have wider refrigerators that are larger than 10 cu ft, so that should be a consideration to those who would not want to have a smaller capacity fridge. One of our group recently bought a larger electric fridge from Lowe's that would not fit through their side window and they did not want to remove a windshield. So Lowe's took it back and they purchased our smaller fridge model and then covered up about 10" of open space that was left over next to the new fridge. They said they were happy with an inexpensive electric even though it was smaller. Finding larger electric fridges will be problematic as they are heavier, harder to fit, and probably will have the bottom condenser fan. So some more pre-planning will have to be done to find a larger RV compatible electric fridge. After seeing the Whirlpool at Lowe's, we have been playing with the electric fridge idea for about a year, wondering what we would do if our 15 year old propane broke. In the end we decided to make the switch even though our propane fridge was still working, and we don't worry about fires anymore.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Jerry & Coleen on August 22, 2011, 02:40:07 pm
I installed the Black Whirlpool in our U-240. I don't have an inverter yet. We plug in the coach to our house before a trip for a few hours. Stays cold enroute. One could run the generator if needed for a bit for a long day. Fridge will need trim on the top, at least in the U-240. I had a mirror cut the correct size, had a Southwestern theme etched in it. Easy. Little trim needed on the bottom. I used the plastic one from the Dometic, painted it black, and cut it to three inches in height. We had to modify the cabinet slightly. Fridge is held in place with plumbers tape. I can't even hear it run. We secure the door with 3M masking tape until I get around to installing a lock. One guy on Escapees used a child proof oven lock from Lowes. Household units are more efficient than absorption units. And will last longer. Cost? $330 with my military discount. Remove the doors and it will go thru the entry door. Biggest headache is removing the old unit.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on August 22, 2011, 02:54:19 pm
Greetings everyone,
So I went to Lowes today... and, well, yeah - bought a fridge. Price is $379 now, still a bargain I think.
Had help loading it into my pickup, but got it out by myself without a fuss and into the garage with a hand truck. It's very light and easy to handle.
It's sitting in the garage for now, plugged in to see how it works. Strikes me it might be really handy right there to keep soda and beers cold while I'm working on the coach. At least until I get to changing it out. :) Got a thermometer in there to see what the temps are when it stops running.
As to noise - I don't think it's particularly noisy. All fridges make some noise when the compressor is running. Seems to be about the same as the bigger Whirlpool in my kitchen. Dunno what the fuss is about.
I have the booth dinette in my U225, so my fridge is on the passenger side of the coach, above the central vac. May have to trim a bit from the top, but it won't need much.
I took some photos of the fridge to help out those wondering about these units; might save you a trip. The only photos I've seen show the outside. Now you can see what the inside looks like.
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Jerry & Coleen on August 22, 2011, 03:16:14 pm
Someone mentioned about removing the stack thru the roof. I recommend not to do so. What little heat a HH unit makes will rise out the vent. Noise? Once it's installed it will be difficult to hear it run unless you have very young ears. As you can see by the photos Merle posted it's a nice unit. Much lighter than the three way units. So you gain some useful load. Although smaller in height than the Dometic, it's bigger inside. Another tip. In our U-240 we reversed the doors. If you do so any trim on the top has to be removable so you can remove the doors if you want to adjust the shelves. The mirror I used can be removed easily if MDW wants to change the shelves.
Rudy and I plan to replace my converter with a inverter/converter when we get back to Texas.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 22, 2011, 03:58:43 pm
You can probably turn off the door gasket heaters, auto defrost and dehumidifier to save some juice if not connected to shore power. Looks really nice and you can't beat the price.
Impressive cost sticker on the back. Seems like a couple of solar panels would offset a lot of the energy consumption.
Does anyone know if the compressor home fridges are less sensitive to parking at less than level?
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 22, 2011, 04:20:40 pm
The Whirlpool fridge's original bulb has a large clear plastic cover that's purpose is to keep food away from the hot bulb. But we found the cover taking up too much space, so we tried different bulbs that did not work out for one reason or another. Replacement bulbs need to have a longer slender neck or the bulb will not fully screw into the socket.
Fry's Electronics has a great LED bulb ($15) that is very bright, uses 2 watts, not affected by cold and has the required normal slender neck that fits fine. Amazon has the same exact package (Miracle LED Cool Light) Amazon.com: Miracle LED 605025 Refrigerator/Freezer Bulb, White: Home (http://www.amazon.com/Miracle-LED-Cool-Light-Equivalent/dp/B004UGPUUK/ref=sr) _1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308540604&sr=1-1-catcorr
We threw out the clear plastic original bulb cover.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 22, 2011, 04:52:20 pm
The Whirlpool fridge does not have a door gasket heater or dehumidifier.
It does have an auto-defrost heating element that comes on based upon how long the compressor has run. Heater also has a thermostat to prevent it from overheating. The condenser and defrost heater are behind the back wall of the freezer and the control timer is behind the back wall of the refrigerator and the heater can be more easily turned off in refrigerator section. A fan moves air over the freezer condenser and flows air into the fridge compartment based upon an air-flow damper setting. The refrigerator section does not have any cooling condenser or fins, but does have the variable temperature thermostat that turns on the compressor and freezer fan.
The fridge could be plugged into a timer, if necessary; to reduce the number of times it can run during the night. Although each compressor run will be longer.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on August 22, 2011, 06:00:50 pm
That's awesome on the LED. That bulb cover does take up a fair bit of usable space.
I waited until after it stopped running and checked temps (settings on both fridge and freezer at the default medium settings). The freezer came in at 0 degrees F, the fridge at 40. Pretty good.
I believe compressor based fridges are less sensitive to level than the heat absorption units, but not sure to what degree. It's a good question.
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Gayland Baasch on August 22, 2011, 09:47:33 pm
I installed a fridge similar to what Merle has the pictures of a year ago. Mine is 19 inches wide so it's easy to get into the coach, and into the old fridge area. I spent an extra $20 or so and got the extended warranty but so far it's worked flawlessly. Couple of things, I had to create a door latch using self adhesive Velcro on the big door to assure it stayed closed if something fell against it from the inside. Since it was so much narrower, it gets no support from the side walls, so I reinforced the floor as it was pretty flimsy, and braced across the top. The braces then formed a base for a shelf above the fridge since it was about 10 inches shorter than the original. I trimmed around the edges with oak to finish it off.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on August 23, 2011, 02:27:58 am
Does this frigidaire have a ice maker option?
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 23, 2011, 08:29:06 am
Our $350 Whirlpool refrigerator from Lowe's does not have an ice maker option. Our ice maker is four covered ice cube trays that freeze in a half day and we dump them into a plastic bag. Ice makers take up too much space for a small fridge in our opinion, not to mention maintenance and water line issues.
There are many ways to keep refrigerator doors secure while driving. Here are some photos of our removable door latch.
Electric refrigerators do not have to be kept level, another benefit to go along with self defrosting. They cannot be damaged by being out of level.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: hotonthetrail on August 23, 2011, 08:58:06 am
Barry, do you have any concerns pertaining to the movement of the compressor, that is usually rubber mounted, but still would constantly be moving when underway. jc
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Bob McGee on August 23, 2011, 09:02:32 am
Quote
We put a piece of 2' square weld steel plate on cabinet floor for reinforcement.
Thanks for all the info on your residential refer changeover Barry.
One question: why did you use the steel plate under the new refer? Isn't the new one lighter than the original?
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 23, 2011, 10:39:28 am
Another modification we made was to shorten the two top plastic stand-offs that hold the rear condenser coil so it does not lean so far away from the back of the fridge. I shortened the mounting screws also.
We did this to keep the coils from touching the back wall of the cabinet, as we really were not sure how much room we had. And if the refrigerator settles down in the back a little we still had ample space between coil and wall. The original design has the coils close to the fridge back at the bottom and further away at the top. We just made it the same distance at the top and bottom. Care has to be made as the coils are fragile at the bottom.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 23, 2011, 10:39:30 am
Quote
Why did you use the steel plate under the new refer? Isn't the new one lighter than the original?
We think you can't have enough of a good thing, so overbuilding is usually a good choice. The floor under the fridge is really not that strong and over 15 years of moisture from original fridge, the bottom is not a strong when the coach was new. The bottom of the propane fridge and bottom of the electric fridge are differently built so the floor has to carry the weight in different places. I don't remember how the propane was built, but the electric fridge carries 100% of the weight on two 2-inch runners that are located under left and right fridge walls Rather than analyze the condition of the floor, I figured some reinforcement was in order. And when I saw a perfect size piece of metal that goes completely side to side, we figured it was cheap insurance.
Quote
Do you have any concerns pertaining to the movement of the compressor that is usually rubber mounted, but still would constantly be moving when underway?
This is a good question among other concerns over using a fridge built for stick-homes in a home on wheels. We figured we really did not know what problems we would find with the switch. But if the electric fridge broke or there were some other insurmountable problems, we figured it was worth the risk to give it a try. And if it turned out to be a bad choice, we would be out $350 and then buy a new propane fridge.
The compressor is rubber mounted, but can only move very little. And our Foretravels are known for a smooth ride. If we leave papers on the table, they are usually still there when we get to our destination. We run the fridge on our inverter while driving so the compressor is working all the time. No problem with five months of use.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Jerry Whiteaker on August 23, 2011, 08:32:26 pm
There are many ways to keep refrigerator doors secure while driving. Here are some photos of our removable door latch.
One should be careful when drilling into refrigerators as there could be a refrigerant line or wiring behind the outer case. A principal at a high school I worked in told the janitor to put a padlock on an expensive refrig in the home economics department. He promptly drilled into a refrigerant line ruining the refrig.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 24, 2011, 08:45:27 am
I couldn't agree with Jerry more about drilling holes in fridge. We also would never drill a hole so if we wanted to turn off the heater, we would mount a switch inside, instead of running wires to an outside switch. Also holes would compromise the insulation.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: George Stoltz on August 24, 2011, 02:01:40 pm
Hey Barry,
When I first looked at your latch to keep both doors, I, too, thought you drilled holes to attached it. So, I am guessing that you used existing screws. Is that correct? BTW, I am impressed at the way you installed the fridge with concerns for coils and support on the floor. Job well done.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 24, 2011, 02:18:42 pm
Since house fridges don't have any flange to be able to hold it in place, how about mounting a stop(s) behind the fridge where you could then install a quick release(s) to be able to R&R and still have a clean installation in the front?
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Coleen on August 24, 2011, 05:14:17 pm
Jerry and I are very impressed with our and I love that there is no noise coming from the frig like some of the others we have had in the past! Jerry had a mirror etched with a desert scene to fill the gap over the top and it looks really nice. ;D
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on September 17, 2011, 10:45:55 am
Finally got to the fridge swap in my 91 U225. I have the booth dinette, which means the fridge is on the passenger side above the central vac. Despite measuring everything as well as I could, I was deceived by the flanges and the control panel on top as to the size of the opening. As you can't see anything in there until you do remove the old unit, there was no way to know what I had to work with.
The old one came out without a fuss. Took about 45 minutes with a helper. We removed the doors first, and got the fridge out the side entry door with a little room on each side. It weighs about the same as the new one. The opening, it turns out, was a shade narrow, which is not a problem, and deep enough, which is good, but 3 inches short in height. No way to open this up without cutting into the central vac compartment.
Can't say I'm all that thrilled with the central vac. Changing the small bags provides a fine opportunity to recite one's collection of curses, the hose had several splits in it, and filters don't seem to be available anymore. In considering a possible smaller replacement unit and redoing the space, it seems most folks aren't very happy with their RV central vacs at all. I have a nice Lindhaus upright in my closet in the house - it was decided it would take the place of the existing unit. The new fridge would now sit on the coach floor, with the remaining space above made into a storage cubbty.
Removed the fridge support floor, which is also the top of the central vac compartment. Not much there - a 1 inch pine frame, and two pieces of 1/4 inch luan plywood with a piece of 3/4 inch blue stryrofoam in between. That's all that was supporting the fridge. The tambour door assembly was also removed. What's left of the face frame will be cut out to provide a 24 inch opening for the fridge.
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on September 17, 2011, 11:13:53 am
Now onto something near and dear to my heart - energy efficiency. I was very disappointed to see how this area was insulated. Please see attached pics.
Although 3/4 inch styrofoam insulation was fitted to the side walls, it did not fill all the openings. Not even close. Also, as this area is open to outside air for ventilation, the side walls and floor can be classed as exterior walls. As such, there should be a vapor barrier present. What's there now isn't doing much of anything.
The plan is to reinsulate this area with foil faced foam insulation, the foil facing the interior of the coach. All openings and gaps will be filled with expanding foam and trimmed. Then a 6 mil plastic vapor barrier will be added, all the staple rows covered in Tyvek tape. The floor will also have a layer of insulation, and a vapor barrier, topped with some 3/4 pressure treated plywood which the fridge will sit on. The lower side walls were part of the central vac cabinet (the black plywood panels at the bottom), and as such have no insulation. The panels will be pulled and insulation will be added.
Once the fridge is fitted the gaps all around the exposed area will be stuffed with foam backer rod and trimmed with some walnut to cover the seam. More insulation will be added behind and on top of the cubby opening, which will not be all that deep to leave a ventilation path open. The fridge will be secure by fastening the rear frame to the floor in some manner, accessible via the vent opening.
The propane line will be disconnected at the manifold and everything will be capped. The upper outlet is no longer needed and will be removed. The lower box and receptacle, and junction box, will be replaced and the wiring cleaned up.
Time to get my jigsaw and get busy. More to come.
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on September 20, 2011, 08:15:13 pm
Some progress made in the last couple of days. The opening has been cut out, old insulation removed and the area cleaned up. Found some Dow Tuff-R 3/4 inch insulation with foil facing on both sides at a local builder supply outlet. As this material can be used as a vapor barrier, there's no need for anything else. The panels were glued in and the seams all taped up with Tyvek tape.
At this point what remains is to re-caulk the seams along the outside walls, redo some of the AC wiring, finish the floor, and the space will be ready for the new fridge. Then the cubby needs to be finished. More when it's done.
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on October 14, 2011, 05:58:47 pm
Greetings,
Been awhile since I updated this project; weather has been a factor (endless rain, it seems), as well as some work where you actually get paid something. :) Work is almost done to where the fridge can be installed - just need to complete a subfloor.
Although water isn't supposed to get in there, the lower part of the back wall, where the central vac once was, was walnut panelling and it showed some deterioration from moisture/water entry. Cleaned everything up, recaulked the seams, and spent $12 on a roll of foil faced waterproofing tape. The walnut panelling was covered with foil-faced self adhesive duct insulation material - had a 1/2 roll laying around, had to cover the panelling with something, what the heck.
All the wiring was encased with split loom tubing, and the electrical was reworked with new receptacles and surface mount boxes (there is enough space at the bottom of the fridge for all this to clear). In the course of wrapping and securing the wire bundles, my exterior outlet popped out the side of the coach. Seems the only thing holding it in there was the paint. Sigh...
Probably a good thing. The existing outlet show signs of overheating (soot, melting, a crack). This type of outlet, once made by Thomas and Betts, does not need an electrical box, and is no longer available (I did not call FT to see if they had any left). Decided to use a box and a standard GFI outlet with outdoor cover. However, the old cover was larger, which left a big ugly spot. Made an escutcheon plate out of aluminum, matched the paint as best I could with what was available, added some clear coat, screwed it together and sealed the seam with silicone. Doesn't look too horrible.
The propane line in the fridge bay was in the way of mounting the electrical boxes, so it was cut and capped where it ran flat along the floor. Before I cut it, I disconnected all three 3/8 lines at the propane mandifold, put a piece of masking tape over each end, then used some compressed air and an an air gun at the fridge bay to blow through the line. The tape blew off at the other end, and I now knew which line went to the fridge. I put a plug in the line and capped the manifold, and tie-wrapped the two ends together to secure them. The other two lines were reconnected. Soap bubble leak test to follow.
Back soon with more. Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on October 24, 2011, 08:40:42 pm
So, finally.. the fridge is installed. Apologies for the lousy pics.
Just clears the side entry door of my 91 U225 going in. The fridge doors had to be removed to get it in place - the aisle is too narrow otherwise. Relative to the enlarged opening, it's a good fit, with about an inch of clearance in the back at the top where the coils stick out the most, and about an 1/8 inch on each side. Found that the doors just swing clear of the cabinets on the opposite side.
All that remains now is turn the space above the fridge into a storage area. Shouldn't be too much more work. Worth the time and effort. Few more pics when it's completed.
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on October 25, 2011, 10:52:55 am
Had a flash this morning - they seem to be happening with less frequency as I get older... :))
I've been trying to come up with a good spot for the inverter I plan to install. Needed to be near the batteries, but not in the same compartment, and needed ventilation as they can get pretty hot with sustained use. Ding, ding! How about raising the fridge up and using the space below? Already vented, and right on top of the battery bank. Probably the best place in the coach for this.
Glad I haven't started finishing the space yet. Sometimes being slow to get to things is good. :)
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: sgkarnes on October 25, 2011, 09:25:43 pm
This AM I was going to ask why you did not raise the frig....Now, what a wonderful idea,,,a heater under the frig to keep it warm.....Lil humor,,very little.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Michelle on October 25, 2011, 09:37:24 pm
Had a flash this morning - they seem to be happening with less frequency as I get older... :))
I wish they were less frequent! Oops, wrong kind of flash ::)
(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sterlingcharms.com%2Fimages%2F162_lg.jpg&hash=4d80cdcdf5a6b88b7c27a2508d9febec" rel="cached" data-hash="4d80cdcdf5a6b88b7c27a2508d9febec" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.sterlingcharms.com/images/162_lg.jpg)
Ahem... back on topic....Even if you don't use the space for an inverter, raising the fridge would give you some useful storage space for pots, pans, small appliances, etc. Our '03 has 2 pull outs below the fridge. I keep the toaster oven in one and almost all my bakeware in the other.
Michelle
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave Head on October 25, 2011, 09:59:22 pm
Starr had me bookmark that one for a future order!
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on October 26, 2011, 06:34:53 am
This AM I was going to ask why you did not raise the frig....Now, what a wonderful idea,,,a heater under the frig to keep it warm.....Lil humor,,very little.
It's ok Gary - I got it. :)
Fridge seemed ok on the ground, although you need to bend down low to get to the bottom. At the time it seemed easier to build a storage space above with whatever room was left, rather than build a raised floor leaving just enough room to slide the fridge in.
With the side vent and roof vent airflow will be good, which is why this spot seemed ideal. Might get warm in there in peak summer - if need be, I'll add some muffin fans to help keep things cool.
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on October 26, 2011, 06:43:26 am
Had a flash this morning - they seem to be happening with less frequency as I get older... :))
I wish they were less frequent! Oops, wrong kind of flash ::)
Ahem... back on topic....Even if you don't use the space for an inverter, raising the fridge would give you some useful storage space for pots, pans, small appliances, etc. Our '03 has 2 pull outs below the fridge. I keep the toaster oven in one and almost all my bakeware in the other.
Michelle
:)) :)) :)) :)) :))
Love the t-shirt.
The more I consider it, the more I like the idea of the inverter in there. Not only is it close to the batteries, and the space vented, the wiring for the bedroom gen start switch runs through there, so I can tap it to connect the inverter gen start module. Might even be some space left for some odds and ends. Just need to fabricate an insulated cover panel for the opening.
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Bill and Ricki on November 14, 2011, 06:28:12 pm
No one could attempt DIY projects without your fabulous Forum help. Thank you. Two questions - First - our coach has three 8D batteries and a Freedom 25 Inverter / Battery Charger whose output is 'modified sine wave' - will this configuration handle the intransit refrigerator running with the compressor starting and stopping? Is anyone using this with their new fridge?
Second - to keep from running the inverter full time while on shore power am planning to install a switch that will allow using the 120v plug that is supplied by the inverter while driving and then switching to the shore power 120v plug while camped. Has anyone used this method?
Thanks for the great help. Bill
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: wolfe10 on November 14, 2011, 06:55:27 pm
Bill,
Check, but I suspect your Freedom 25 has a "pass through" feature (basically a build in transfer switch). When your inverter is supplied with 120 VAC from shore power or generator it merely "passes that 120 VAC through" to circuits supplied by the inverter. So the inverter is not using battery power and inverting it to supply those outlets, it is using shore or generator power.
If you do have this feature, one less thing you need to do.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Gayland Baasch on November 14, 2011, 07:14:59 pm
Yes, the inverter handles the fridge just fine, at least it does mine, and yes, as Brett says, you don't need to do the switching thing.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Bill and Ricki on November 14, 2011, 07:21:06 pm
Thank you Brett, the manual for the Freedom 25 indicates the presence of the 'transfer switch' so will not be concerned about the need for manual switching. On a side note, your Sept 2011 FMCA article was extremely helpful in finding the defunct solenoid. Your contributions are valued and appreciated. Bill
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on February 12, 2012, 12:02:37 pm
It's been a number of months since I bought the fridge... but it's finally installed. Finished.
The inverter was mounted below, where the central vac used to be. That took some time to put together. And as I wanted to add solar, and the power cables would run down the fridge bay, that wiring also had to be done first.
Some initial playing around showed the fridge drew 11 amps at 12 volts from the inverter when first started up. The clear plastic cover over the supplied lamp has been removed and replaced with the recommended LED lamp, making more space in there.
The shelf supporting the fridge was made from 3/4 plywood, with aluminum sheet bonded to it to protect it from moisture developing in the bay. There is a 2 1/2 inch air gap at the back of the shelf to provide airflow for the inverter. Opening the outside access door gives you access to the condensate catch pan in the back of the fridge.
A 3 inch L bracket was attached at the back of the fridge and a heavy screw was then used to attach the other end of the bracket through the shelf into the support frame. This anchored the lower rear of the fridge.
At the front I fitted styrofoam insulation top and bottom. A stick-on vinyl trim was fitted down the sides to seal the small gap there, and I fabricated two aluminum cover plates for the top and bottom. They were painted with a black textured paint to try to match the finish of the fridge. The top plate is secured to the wood above and sits just over the edge of the fridge. A neoprene foam gasket all around provides an air seal. Some screw and bolt covers hide the fasteners somewhat.
The lower hinge of the refrigerator door is secured to one of the front feet by means of a drilled an tapped steel plate, two shims, and two bolts. Both front feet of the fridge have holes drilled in them, which allows the doors to hinged from either side. The shims were replaced by the aluminum cover plate, and the shims were drilled and tapped to provide a means of fastening the trim plate to the other side. So both feet are attached to the trim plate, and the trim plate was then screwed to the front of the shelf. This anchored the lower front of the fridge. With the foam wedged in top and bottom, the fridge is now well secured.
Still need to fabricate an access panel/cover for the inverter, but otherwise it's a done deal. Finally. :)
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Bill Willett on February 12, 2012, 12:45:26 pm
Look's a lot better than some factory job's I have seen. ^.^d
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Don & Tys on February 12, 2012, 12:46:24 pm
^.^d Sweet! Complex series of upgrades giving the inverter install and all the solar prep... Looks to be well thought out and executed. Speaking of solar, giving the current draw of the fridge and misc other power draws on the house batteries, how much wattage worth of solar cells are needed to handle the load while boon docking without drawing the batteries down past the magic 50% level? Don
It's been a number of months since I bought the fridge... but it's finally installed. Finished.
The inverter was mounted below, where the central vac used to be. That took some time to put together. And as I wanted to add solar, and the power cables would run down the fridge bay, that wiring also had to be done first.
Some initial playing around showed the fridge drew 11 amps at 12 volts from the inverter when first started up. The clear plastic cover over the supplied lamp has been removed and replaced with the recommended LED lamp, making more space in there.
The shelf supporting the fridge was made from 3/4 plywood, with aluminum sheet bonded to it to protect it from moisture developing in the bay. There is a 2 1/2 inch air gap at the back of the shelf to provide airflow for the inverter. Opening the outside access door gives you access to the condensate catch pan in the back of the fridge.
A 3 inch L bracket was attached at the back of the fridge and a heavy screw was then used to attach the other end of the bracket through the shelf into the support frame. This anchored the lower rear of the fridge.
At the front I fitted styrofoam insulation top and bottom. A stick-on vinyl trim was fitted down the sides to seal the small gap there, and I fabricated two aluminum cover plates for the top and bottom. They were painted with a black textured paint to try to match the finish of the fridge. The top plate is secured to the wood above and sits just over the edge of the fridge. A neoprene foam gasket all around provides an air seal. Some screw and bolt covers hide the fasteners somewhat.
The lower hinge of the refrigerator door is secured to one of the front feet by means of a drilled an tapped steel plate, two shims, and two bolts. Both front feet of the fridge have holes drilled in them, which allows the doors to hinged from either side. The shims were replaced by the aluminum cover plate, and the shims were drilled and tapped to provide a means of fastening the trim plate to the other side. So both feet are attached to the trim plate, and the trim plate was then screwed to the front of the shelf. This anchored the lower front of the fridge. With the foam wedged in top and bottom, the fridge is now well secured.
Still need to fabricate an access panel/cover for the inverter, but otherwise it's a done deal. Finally. :)
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on February 13, 2012, 10:33:43 am
Thanks for the compliments. Much appreciated. :)
Don - that's a good question. I have no idea. ;D
I've done numerous calculations on paper, but I've never done this before, so am not sure how much power I'll end up using. Too much at first, no doubt, as I'm so used to just having power at hand when I need it. Safe to say I'll be watching closely going in and developing new habits to reduce consumption. I am adding four 150 watt panels for a 600 watt setup (about all I can fit on the roof and still have access to stuff). Is it enough? Dunno. Much also depends on how much time I spend with the computer and music gear. The solar system should at least keep the fridge running and the batteries topped up. If they drop too far, the auto gen start module will start the gennie to recharge. No TVs, no icemaker, no washer/dryer, a percolator coffee pot, campfire cooking and other things will all help in reducing overall energy consumption.
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Don & Tys on February 13, 2012, 11:34:56 am
Good answer! :D I guess a lot depends on how much the refrigerator cycles on and off... Do you know what it draws while running after the compressor start up? What kind of computer do you use? I am kind of obsessed with the idea of getting off the grid as much as possible, even though we will have hook ups at 1000 Trails parks... Eventually when we find some acreage that feels right, I want to know enough about the subject to be able to be energy independent (other than diesel of course... But who knows. I wonder if anybody ever run a FT on Bio-Diesel?). Oh well, life is an experiment after all.... ;D Don
I've done numerous calculations on paper, but I've never done this before, so am not sure how much power I'll end up using. Too much at first, no doubt, as I'm so used to just having power at hand when I need it. Safe to say I'll be watching closely going in and developing new habits to reduce consumption. I am adding four 150 watt panels for a 600 watt setup (about all I can fit on the roof and still have access to stuff). Is it enough? Dunno. Much also depends on how much time I spend with the computer and music gear. The solar system should at least keep the fridge running and the batteries topped up. If they drop too far, the auto gen start module will start the gennie to recharge. No TVs, no icemaker, no washer/dryer, a percolator coffee pot, campfire cooking and other things will all help in reducing overall energy consumption.
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on February 14, 2012, 12:35:07 am
There are several threads on using an electric fridge that cover electric cost and installation issues.
One is at Residential fridge (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=13454.msg74516#msg74516) There are others to be found using search.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Merle Hench on February 14, 2012, 08:15:38 am
Good answer! :D I guess a lot depends on how much the refrigerator cycles on and off... Do you know what it draws while running after the compressor start up? What kind of computer do you use? I am kind of obsessed with the idea of getting off the grid as much as possible, even though we will have hook ups at 1000 Trails parks... Eventually when we find some acreage that feels right, I want to know enough about the subject to be able to be energy independent (other than diesel of course... But who knows. I wonder if anybody ever run a FT on Bio-Diesel?). Oh well, life is an experiment after all.... ;D Don
Hi Don,
The inverter remote showed the fridge drawing 11 amps at 12 volts after startup. I don't know if it makes a difference, but both the fridge and freezer were being chilled. My residential fridge runs the fridge/freezer sections independently - don't know if that's the case here, but imagine it is, as each section had it's own temp control.
I have a tower PC that's a number of years old. Was looking at laptops for a long time, but a big issue is finding one with a Firewire port (other than Macs). Most new laptops don't have one, or even a card slot or other means of adding one. Gotta have the firewire for my recording interface. I'm just going to put the tower pc into the coach for now. My Kill A Watt meter shows it drawing an average of 200 watts - fair bit more than a laptop, but not too bad. I will probably have to run the gennie when I want to operate the PC and all the rack gear for any length of time - depends on the batteries' state of charge and how sunny it is that day.
Have been intrigued by biodiesel, but have not dug into it very much as yet. I'm also very keen to get off the grid. Would like to find a piece of land with running water that would allow adding a water powered generator for free perpetual electricity.
Steve
Title: Re: Residential fridge - Another install
Post by: Dave Katsuki on February 22, 2012, 05:52:19 pm
I recently replaced our 2-door Dometic fridge with the Whirlpool that Barry and Cindy, Rudy, Merle (Steve), Gayland, and several other Forum folks have used. What a difference in usable space! Very quiet after I rebuilt the fan motor. Rear bearing of the fan had no felt behind the end of the motor shaft, and the shaft was vibrating against the back of the bearing. Stuffed some small felt pieces in, added some thin oil, and now it's very quiet. No problems boondocking with it (we're now in Borrego Springs, Ca, boondocking in the desert. Our solar panels keep it and our ice maker happy and top off the batteries during the day, and low battery drain from just the fridge inverter during the night.
Only a few things to add to the other reports: 1) I made a 2' x 2' dolly that would fit over our small auto floor jack, and we used that to lower the old fridge to the floor after we pulled it out, and lifted the new fridge into "pushing position" on the dolly.
2) I put a 2' x 2' 16 ga steel plate (from ACE) on the floor of the cavity - glued down with construction adhesive, and slid the new fridge directly onto it without any additional angles attached to the bottom of the fridge. Attached the fridge to the plate with screws at the back and from underneath at the front.
3) Anchored the top of the fridge by bonding two 3" x 1/8" x 9" pieces of aluminum to the top of the fridge with 3M VHB tape, and then screwed those aluminum pieces to a couple of 1/8" x 6" steel angles, which were then screwed to the inside of the roof vent opening (there's a steel collar on the inside of the opening.) (Sorry no pictures of this part as it was dark when I finished and needed to get it buttoned up.)
4) Sealed top and bottom wind gaps with 2" x 2" foam strips, and the edges in back with spray foam and tape. Still need to do sealing trim strips like Steve (Merle Hench).
5) The fridge sides bulge out beyond the 24" W dimension, so I had to cut out the opening more than originally planned, and reduce the amount of new insulation on the sides some. I had to remove about 1/2" from the right side of the original opening. Used a good jig saw to get close to the cut line, and a belt sander to clean it.
As others have reported, both the old fridge and the new one went out/in the door after I removed the screen door and the latch bolt. We got the new fridge from Lowes in Tucson, and they brought it in with no trouble.
Got a Xantrex PROwatt SW 600W true sine inverter just to handle the fridge, since we can then just turn off the main inverter with all its loads when we go out or go to bed. We can also plug the fridge into either inverter or non-inverter power in the back. Never hurts to have options...
I put a drain tube in the bottom of the defrost overflow in the back, since water seemed to take a long time to evaporate (and more so in cold weather!) and I didn't want it to be sloshing around and spilling when we are on the road.
Took another cut at a door lock for traveling, with three shelf pegs, a couple of neodymium disk magnets and a piece of hardwood. (Details in the next post.)
Title: Re: Residential fridge - Another latch
Post by: Dave Katsuki on February 22, 2012, 06:07:46 pm
Here's a fridge door lock that I made for our new Whirlpool. Earthquake tested on a recent trip and works fine:
Materials: - Three shelf support pegs; two cut down to fit on the inside edges of the doors and attached with small sheet metal screws , and one slotted to fit on the alternative hinge mount bolt.
- Several washers to space the center peg out.
- Three small super strong neodymium disk magnets to hold locking block on during earthquakes. (I got them in Quartzsite, I think, or maybe at a woodworking store.)
- Piece of cherry wood (other hardwoods could conceivably work also...)
- A spare cabinet knob (Decorating Department said it had to match.)
Process: Cut, drill, slot, and attach pegs. Grumble about fact that doors were not even, and so pegs were not either. Carefully transfer hole positions to wood. Drill wood for pegs & knob, & counter-drill in back for magnet disks and press magnets in. Fiddle around with positioning the magnets. Sand and shape it to taste. Finish it as required. Attach teflon tape to back to avoid rubbing the wood. Take pictures. Paint pegs black someday.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Mark and Tracy on March 14, 2012, 12:24:54 pm
Holy cow guys we removed the double door unit from our coach last night, I am not sure I want to do that again. I had to remove the front trim off the unit which was a total pain in the butt! What I was wondering has anyone replaced the double door unit with the new home frig and how did you trim it out. The new unit will be noticeably narrower.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John Haygarth on March 14, 2012, 02:11:25 pm
I have a double door fridge that has to come out soon as we now have the narrower residential one sitting in the dining area to go in and I am going to make a storage/pantry to go on the right side(after changing swing of fridge doors.) I will post pics when I get it done but not on the top of list just yet John
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on March 14, 2012, 02:26:20 pm
John has a good idea for the pantry installation. I went to several hard wood suppliers in the area and found some excellent matching dark wood for a couple of interior projects. A table saw, router and a bit of work can make a nice OEM quality storage space.
Pierce
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave Head on March 14, 2012, 02:44:55 pm
I believe Rudy has done this on his 320... Maybe he has pics?
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Paul Smith on June 17, 2012, 08:04:51 pm
We looked over the refrigerators at Lowe's today.
Anyone ever use a larger one than the 9.7 cu ft one?
best, paul
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Rudy on June 17, 2012, 08:18:04 pm
Mark,
The Mobile RV Service friend of mine that did my residential install took a matching board that he cut to length and width and pocket screwed it to the top, bottom and side of the opening left by the new Whirlpool 9.7 cu-ft unit. He then slid the new refrigerator into place and secured it in position.
Everything fit flush and no surround trim pieces were needed.
He charged me $300 and Lowes charged me $359 plus tax.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John Haygarth on June 17, 2012, 08:53:44 pm
I posted pictures on what I did to use that space as a pantry and it really is working great. It is a shame just to cover that space up and not use it. I can not find the link on the board to show you so maybe Steve or Michelle can post it on this message for me John h
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Michelle on June 17, 2012, 09:06:19 pm
I posted pictures on what I did to use that space as a pantry and it really is working great. It is a shame just to cover that space up and not use it. I can not find the link on the board to show you so maybe Steve or Michelle can post it on this message for me John h
Took a few clicks... here it is
John Haygarth's fridge and pantry upgrade (What did you do to your coach today) (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=15228.0)
Michelle
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 18, 2012, 01:05:47 pm
RE: from a last year posting from Steve & Michelle: "Now all we need to find are some folks who've replaced the larger NDR-1492 with a comparable-or-better capacity residential unit . . ."
We just saw a friend's 2-door propane fridge and was surprised at the loss of interior space from very thick freezer walls, Freon compressor in lower part of freezer & the space the ice maker takes up. And they reminded us that they have to defrost every couple of months.
We have had our Whirlpool electric SELF DEFROSTING fridge for over 15 months and it is still one of the best mods we have made. And our Blue Bell stays hard and we make ice in 8 hours and have not defrosted in 15 months.
The reason for this email is for someone to measure their 2-door fridge useable inside space to be compared to the Whirlpool inside usable space to determine how much space will be lost by switching to electric.
Whirlpool freezer: 13.5" deep x 19.5" wide x 15.5" high = 4080.38 cu in = 2.36 cu ft Whirlpool refrigerator: 17" deep x 20.5" wide x 35" high = 12197.5 cu in = 7.06 cu ft Fridge + freezer = 9.42 cu ft
The Whirlpool replaced a 7.3 measured cu ft propane fridge, so we gained 29% more capacity. So maybe with all the unusable space inside the 2-door fridge and the 29% increase of the smaller electric, maybe the interior space will not be that much less.
One of the issues with larger electric refrigerators, is that most have a bottom fan-cooled condenser coil that is open to the room. There are not many electric refrigerators, like the Whirlpool that still have the open condenser coils mounted on the back of the fridge.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Paul Smith on June 18, 2012, 03:09:38 pm
Quote
The reason for this email is for someone to measure their 2-door fridge useable inside space to be compared to the Whirlpool inside usable space to determine how much space will be lost by switching to electric.
Whirlpool freezer: 13.5" deep x 19.5" wide x 15.5" high = 4080.38 cu in = 2.36 cu ft Whirlpool refrigerator: 17" deep x 20.5" wide x 35" high = 12197.5 cu in = 7.06 cu ft Fridge + freezer = 9.42 cu ft
The Whirlpool replaced a 7.3 measured cu ft propane fridge, so we gained 29% more capacity.
My 1492 measured 11.4 cf or so. Or 2cf more than the Whirlpool.
best, paul
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Paul Smith on June 18, 2012, 06:36:38 pm
Quote
RE: from a last year posting from Steve & Michelle: "Now all we need to find are some folks who've replaced the larger NDR-1492 with a comparable-or-better capacity residential unit . . ."
I'm starting to think seriously about replacing our 1492 with a Whirlpool.
Before I bite the bullet I'm trying to get my arms around the various issues.
First, what is involved in removing a 1492 from where it is now to the isle in front of it?
I assume Step 1 is to turn off propane.
best, paul
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: erniee on June 19, 2012, 08:47:00 am
Paul, the unit is heavy and awkward. Lots of screws to be removed on sides and rear. I turned the propane off at the tank on Glen's coach. Went to hardware and purchased a plug for the propane line. Snipped and capped the 12 volt lines and unplugged the icemaker. If your unit has the icemaker mechanism under the refer, you will need to measure and get a solid surface to slide the unit onto. After you get the unit out and stabilized, you can remove the doors, and anything else that is easy to remove. The grab handle coming into the coach that protrudes into the opening will need to be removed. ERnie- hope this helps
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on June 19, 2012, 09:36:55 am
Ernie, Just for my future info, how do you remove the wooden grab handles at the door ? I can see no screws or plugs on my U280. Thanks Gary B
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: erniee on June 19, 2012, 11:15:18 am
Gary- the ones I have seen have the little plugs. They are the same color and may be sanded smooth with some wood filler
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: philtravel on September 30, 2012, 08:12:02 am
I went electric! I used a Samsung from Lowe's. It went in through the door. I lost the lower cabinet but picked up about 3 times the volume in the fridge. Any one looking for a working Dometic?
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave Head on September 30, 2012, 09:29:13 am
Very nice! I have one of their dryers at home. It plays tunes for us!
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Michelle on September 30, 2012, 09:55:13 am
I went electric! I used a Samsung from Lowe's. It went in through the door.
Model number, please?
Was this a swap-out for an NDR1492 (or what were the dimensions of the Dometic)? More details on the installation are always welcome (encouraged, actually).
Michelle
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Patricia on September 30, 2012, 11:51:22 am
Michelle, we completed building our winter home in Tucson last December, and (from philtravel's photo) this appears to be the same model, except ours is black. Our model number is RS265TDBP.
At the time we spec'd the appliances--and currently--this is ConsumerReports.org's top rated side-by-side. CR lists a price of $1200; Lowes currently has a sale (through 10/10/12) for $1170; and last fall the Lowe's price (which our builder's supplier matched) was $1050.
On edit: With that depth :o it probably is the counter-depth version, model RSG257AABP/XAA (Counter Depth 36" wide Black Side by Side Refrigerator 24 cu. ft. Energy Star | (http://www.samsung.com/us/appliances/refrigerators/RSG257AABP/XAA)), with listed dimensions of 35 3/4" x 68 5/8" x 27 3/16" (including handles). Lowes has this on sale for $1709.
We used it for 5 months before we left on our summer trip in mid-May - and found it to be very quiet and easy to manipulate shelves to our liking, plus the rear LED lighting in the interior was excellent.
The dimensions for our model are 35-3/4 wide, 69-7/8, and 36-1/2 deep (per the Samsung website: 36" wide Black Side by Side Refrigerator 26 cu. ft. Energy Star | Samsung (http://www.samsung.com/us/appliances/refrigerators/RS265TDBP/XAA)).
While I like this model in the S&B, I'd really like to find a model which doesn't necessitate the loss of the two wonderful cabinets below our current NDR1492! ???
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: esaulten on September 30, 2012, 04:10:36 pm
I think you will love your new fridge. Having a all electric coach for better part of seven years we love ours. However a recent change in the extended warrenty's for the Amana, Maytag, Kitchen Aide and many others is the exclusion of a RV based install for coverage. When we first bought our coach we thought we should get the extended warranty. we did and continued on bi-annual basis until this past April when we say the exclusion. I called the manufacturer and they confirmed that Rv use was not covered and would not in the future. I have not heard of any of the electric owners that I know have any problems, but should we we are on our own. Personally I think that sucks. Only thought is to remove fridge and put it in garage or other part of home and get service. Seems like potentially a lot of trouble. your thoughts?
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dwayne on September 30, 2012, 11:29:29 pm
We are building a garage apartment at my sister's house for our mother. That is the fridge we are putting in...$1170 from Lowes. It is 30" wide, 31" deep and 68" high. Home Depot has no side by side that width but perhaps the box stores do.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: philtravel on October 01, 2012, 08:38:38 am
OK, The old Dometic was 59"x36"x24" Model#NDR1282 Ser.# 72900011. Anyone know how to decipher the date code?
The new, Samsung RSG257AARS Cap. 24.5Cu FT. Overall depth is 29 3/16" including the handles. The box without the doors is 24" deep. The handle stick out far but I think we will live with it. I they bother us I may make some smaller handles. The width is 35 3/4" The height is 68 5/8". It weighs 254LBS. seems lighter than the old Dometic! It claims 445 KWH/year,energy star
I said I bought at Lowes? (guess I was reading other posts) as I bought it at Best Buy for 1770.00 they do price matching so I will check and see if they have it at Lowes seeing that others have paid less. I suspect they are different models as it was on sale when I bought it.
I am still figuring out if I should seal the side vent or let it breath and seal around the refridge or seal the vents from outside and let the top and sides breath into the interior space? What are others doing?
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave Katsuki on October 02, 2012, 01:57:46 am
If you have the rear condenser coils (like the Whirlpool 10 Cu Ft), then you should leave the external vents open and seal around the fridge (that's what I did). Heat has to go somewhere, and the cooling chimney is well set up for that. If you have the bottom condenser and fan, you're probably stuck with recirculating the heat from the condenser into the living space unless you can put in some sort of front ducting to circulate outside air under the bottom and out the top.)
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on October 02, 2012, 04:32:41 am
I installed this Bosch refrigerator. I did not close off the vent to the outside behind the refrigerator. I like the access behind the unit and the ability to get to the icemaker and filtered water water lines that run behind it.
I will make a insulated cover for winter so the warm air that comes off the refrigerator stay in side the coach. I did put a screen on the inside of the outside vented cover to keep bugs out.
I did put a vent above the refrigerator to help it breath.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: philtravel on October 02, 2012, 08:03:07 am
I called FOT and asked how the new all elect. coaches where built. They are sealed and all the circulation stays inside the coach. I think I will do the same. I will still have the vents removable but I will seal the venting.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave Head on October 02, 2012, 12:49:22 pm
I installed this Bosch refrigerator. I did not close off the vent to the outside behind the refrigerator. I like the access behind the unit and the ability to get to the icemaker and filtered water water lines that run behind it.
I will make a insulated cover for winter so the warm air that comes off the refrigerator stay in side the coach. I did put a screen on the inside of the outside vented cover to keep bugs out.
I did put a vent above the refrigerator to help it breath.
So from your pics the slideout drawer column next to the pocket door came out for your install too. That's more reefer than I need!
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John Haygarth on October 03, 2012, 12:03:11 am
On the Lowes unit I installed I sealed around front opening with black silicone caulk to the wood frame and it matches so well you do not see it. I have also got a 1" blue styrofoam panel I made that is cut in 2 and I can either put it in as insulation when not using the coach but also take it outif I want when fridge is running, takes 30 secs to do. I use the roof vent as heat outlet. I also have a seperate 1000 watt pure sine inv fitted into end cabinet of bed that is wired to a DPDT switch so I can run it on any form of power input I like and the smaller inv uses less standby power too. It all works well and I thank barry B for the idea and help last year. John h
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on October 03, 2012, 03:34:55 am
So from your pics the slideout drawer column next to the pocket door came out for your install too. That's more reefer than I need!
There is a floor to ceiling cabinet next to the refrigerator between the refrigerator and the pocket door. The refrigerator does not take up that entire area. The cabinet is about 10" wide. There is actually more room than that available. I think there could be at least 12". The wall between the refrigerator and the counter top was moved over about 3/4" to accommodate the clearance needed for the door swing of the micro/convection oven. There is also about 1 1/2" clearance on both sides of the refrigerator enclosure. I had a empty canvas for the install and had no idea what was there before.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: wa_desert_rat on October 03, 2012, 09:30:55 am
For my U225 none of the refrigerators you folks installed and describe would be feasible. Although the photos are certainly helpful and the installation jobs are amazing. The mechanical and wood-working talent among Foretravel owners (or at least Foreforum users) is truly impressive.
Given that, I expect that someone, somewhere, must have installed a domestic type refrigerator in their Grand Villa.
Hopefully, there are pictures and model descriptions. I'm not looking forward to removing any windows.
Craig
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Rudy on October 03, 2012, 09:42:42 am
Craig,
A number of members including myself have installed the 10 cuft Whirlpool reefer which will go in through the door. Jerry and Coleen have pictures of one in your coach. Perhaps a search will turn up their post of pictures if they do not chime in here.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Don & Tys on October 03, 2012, 12:27:46 pm
Craig, A Foreforum member (user name Merle Hench) has a 91 u225 and did the install with pictures here: Residential fridge (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=13454.msg87136#msg87136) Don
For my U225 none of the refrigerators you folks installed and describe would be feasible. Although the photos are certainly helpful and the installation jobs are amazing. The mechanical and wood-working talent among Foretravel owners (or at least Foreforum users) is truly impressive.
Given that, I expect that someone, somewhere, must have installed a domestic type refrigerator in their Grand Villa.
Hopefully, there are pictures and model descriptions. I'm not looking forward to removing any windows.
Craig
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on October 03, 2012, 01:23:19 pm
Don,
He did a nice, neat job. Like the galvanized floor, etc. For GV owners, I can say that if the new refrigerator will fit in the old compartment width, it will come through the entry door with only the hand rail needed to be removed (EZ). Two guys and about a minute to get it from the ground in the door and on the floor. Really pays to have all the work done ahead of time so it can go straight in the hole. Wonder how I know this?
Pierce
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Don & Tys on October 03, 2012, 01:53:00 pm
Pierce, He sure did! Also great job with the solar, inverter, and battery upgrades, as well as a music recording workstation... he finished and then headed off to parts unknown in Canada somewhere, probably off grid. I haven't seen any posts from him (Steve, aka Merle Hench)... from him since. Wonder how it is working for him... Steve... if you read this, let us know how you have fared with all the upgrades! Don
He did a nice, neat job. Like the galvanized floor, etc. For GV owners, I can say that if the new refrigerator will fit in the old compartment width, it will come through the entry door with only the hand rail needed to be removed (EZ). Two guys and about a minute to get it from the ground in the door and on the floor. Really pays to have all the work done ahead of time so it can go straight in the hole. Wonder how I know this?
Pierce
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: PatC on October 03, 2012, 04:21:24 pm
I only see one problem with that swap for me. The inverter is in the same cabinet as where my cat's box is currently located. But I do think I could place the inverter in the basement compartment under the refrigerator.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: PatC on October 03, 2012, 04:47:53 pm
he finished and then headed off to parts unknown in Canada somewhere, probably off grid. I haven't seen any posts from him (Steve, aka Merle Hench)... from him since. Wonder how it is working for him...
Now you got me worried and wondering how he is doing!!!
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: wa_desert_rat on October 03, 2012, 08:33:02 pm
Craig, A Foreforum member (user name Merle Hench) has a 91 u225 and did the install with pictures here: Residential fridge (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=13454.msg87136#msg87136) Don
Thanks, Don. His coach is exactly like mine. However that refrigerator doesn't seem to be on Lowe's any more. And I actually kind of like the vacuum and its compartment. So I think I'll see if I can't find something that will fit into the space occupied by the Dometic. The fridge in there is about 18 months old so it might last a while before bursting into flames.
Craig
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Rudy on October 03, 2012, 08:51:56 pm
Craig,
My rv fixit guy ordered the 10 cuft Whirlpool and had a 3 week wait but it is arriving this week. He does so many here he keeps on in stock.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on October 03, 2012, 10:50:55 pm
RE: " However that refrigerator doesn't seem to be on Lowe's any more"
The popular Whirlpool fridge is still on Lowe's web site: Shop Whirlpool 9.6 cu ft Top-Freezer Refrigerator (White) at Lowes.com (http://www.lowes.com/pd_267488-46-ET0MSRXTQ_0__?productId=1076489)
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: TheBrays on October 04, 2012, 08:18:35 am
I think rumors of the Whirlpool 9.7's demise are probably correct. I followed Barry's link and got the page for the white one but when I did a search on the Lowes site using their search engine I got a "...not found..".
Worse, I searched AJ Madison (my favorite appliance online store) and they mark the series as "discontinued". Whirlpool ET0MSRXTQ 9.7 cu. ft. Top-Freezer Refrigerator with 2 Glass Shelves, (http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/ET0MSRXTQ.html?mv_pc=ggsku4&gclid=CM7t6c6j57ICFXGRPAod4xYADw)
This isn't to say there are not some in the supply chain but I'm worried.
The AJ Madison suggested refer. was the 11 cu Whirlpool WRT111SFAB Whirlpool WRT111SFAB 11 cu. ft. Top-Freezer Refrigerator with 2 Removable Wire (http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/WRT111SFAB.html)
The Whirlpool current products site only has the WRT11SFAx line. See http://www.whirlpool.com/digitalassets/WRT111SFAF/Dimension%20Guide_EN.pdf (http://www.whirlpool.com/digitalassets/WRT111SFAF/Dimension%20Guide_EN.pdf) for dimensions. Same 24" wide but a little taller and a touch deeper.
Too Bad... (That's what happened to my favorite stack-able washer and dryer set too)
HTH
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: PatC on October 04, 2012, 07:08:03 pm
I think this one will work: Shop Haier 10.3 cu ft Top-Freezer Refrigerator (White) at Lowes.com (http://www.lowes.com/pd_336970-13247-HRF10WNDWW_4294789497__?productId=3369936&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1) Height: case is 58.93 and door hinge is 59.43. Width is 23.62. And the depth including handles is 26.18. Depth with Door Open (Inches) is 49.76.
Page with measurements: http://pdf.lowes.com/dimensionsguides/688057304892_meas.pdf (http://pdf.lowes.com/dimensionsguides/688057304892_meas.pdf).
391 kWh Estimated Yearly Electricity Use. Not Engery Star rated.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: wa_desert_rat on October 04, 2012, 10:30:29 pm
I forgot to put the measurements of the existing Dometic into my "notes" folder on my smartphone so I'll have to go back and measure again tomorrow.
Wonder why it's not energy star rated as that power consumption should fall under the rating. Hmmm.
No manufacturer can keep anything out on sale without the marketing department requiring a "new and bigger" version. Look at Honda with the Trail 90, the Trail 110 and then they quit making them altogether even though they are going for up to $2500 on craigslist.
Craig
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: wayne m on November 15, 2012, 12:44:46 pm
I was reading on another forum where the absorption fridge was replaced with a samsung counter depth 18 cu. ft. model rf197. it runs fine on their modified sine wave inverter, and uses very little power. the measurements look like it will fit almost perfectly in the space of my dometic side by side, except for height which is not much of a problem. has anyone replaced with this model, or have any thoughts? I would think that four hours per day of generator would work for dry camping, and the alternator would take care of things while underway.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on November 15, 2012, 01:06:08 pm
That Samsung model is what I have been looking at, the only issue for my 36' is loosing the space below the frig. The 36' is not over loaded with storage space, so I keep sitting on the fence with a sore butt. Dave M
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Patricia on November 15, 2012, 02:07:16 pm
I've been pleased with the Samsung we put in the winter house in Tucson (construction completed last December).
Note that the RF197 model Wayne mentions is counter depth, BUT the specs indicate it is 28.8 deep (without handles), and 30.5 deep (with handles). It's 24.348 without the door. So, that puppy will stick out further than our NDR1492.
Also, it is 32.25 wide and, at 69.75 height with hinge, those existing lower cabinets would disappear (so, I'm parked on that fence right next to you, Dave ??? ).
Here's the link to the black model (17.8 cf): RF197ABBP - OVERVIEW | SAMSUNG (http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/home-appliances/refrigerators/french-door/RF197ABBP/XAC)
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave Head on November 15, 2012, 02:21:04 pm
Plenty of article on installing for SOB - here's one with loads of pics. Samsung RF197 installed in 2006 Diplomat 40PDQ - iRV2 Forums (http://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/samsung-rf197-installed-in-2006-diplomat-40pdq-102210.html)
I'm not sure this would fit the narrower door of my '95...
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: wayne m on November 15, 2012, 06:40:35 pm
dave you are right about not fitting through the door, but the dometic needs to go out the side window anyway.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Don & Tys on November 15, 2012, 06:53:58 pm
Anybody know offhand what year the uni-coaches went to the wider door? Don
dave you are right about not fitting through the door, but the dometic needs to go out the side window anyway.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: bogeygolfer on November 15, 2012, 09:45:33 pm
I believe it was either 1997 or 1998.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Don Hay on November 15, 2012, 11:25:24 pm
It was '97 for the wide door.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: philtravel on November 16, 2012, 07:46:57 am
Mine went through the door (1999). I did have to unbolt the passenger chair.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on November 18, 2012, 01:32:05 am
The counter depth Bosch fridge I installed fit through the narrow 24" 95 door way. I removed the refrigerator doors. I also removed the coach door and the passenger seat.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Judi Cripple on December 20, 2012, 06:23:15 am
Did you take the old rv frig out the entrance door? We have a 1999 U320. We are going to put a residential frig in as well. Did you need to do a lot of modification to fit the new frig in the existing space? What size did you go with and would suggest one to do this or that first? Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: philtravel on December 20, 2012, 08:08:05 am
My old went out through the door and the new only required eliminating the bottom storage and I installed some scribing to conceal the edges. The model # of the Samsung is in a previous post on page 4. Very happy with it. We use a velcro wrap to secure the doors.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dick Henry on December 20, 2012, 12:18:15 pm
I have talked with David Flannigan at Foretravelabout about installing a Samsung RF197 in my 2006 Nimbus. After looking at and measuring my unit he stated the hight of the Samsung would cause me to loose the bottom drawer that I now have below the Dometic. He also stated the door handles will extend out approximately 3/4" further than the Dometic. Otherwise there would be no problem fitting the Samsung into the existing space. I hate to loose the extra storage but I am ready to get rid of my now inoperative Dometic. Both units will enter and exit through the side window. I am scheduled to have it installed the second week of January 2013. If your in NAC around that time and want to see the installation stop by. David estimated installation will take apx. 3 days.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on December 20, 2012, 03:57:02 pm
Been snooping on other RV related websites, found sad news concerning the Samsung refrig and big law suit concerning the lack of cooling, appears to affect many models. Will try to add website for the law suite.
Samsung Refrigerator Defects and Cooling Problems (http://www.zimmreed.com/Samsung-Refrigerator-/20856/)
Dave M
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dick Henry on December 20, 2012, 05:01:41 pm
Thanks for the info Dave. It appears that the RF197 is not on the list. Has anyone heard of any trouble with this model? I have not found any in my search.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: philtravel on December 20, 2012, 08:32:07 pm
Well, I don't see my model # on the list (RSG257AARS) So maybe I will get lucky. Dave you got me a little bummed out but on the bright side its working great for now and we LOVE it so much more than the Dometic and I think we have reduced our fire hazard considerably so for now its a-ok.
I think I am going to toss out the Dometic if any one wants it. I ran a couple adds on Craigslist with no calls. It still works and has a 18 month old ice maker.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: MR B2 on December 20, 2012, 09:04:21 pm
Not being electrically minded, can some tell me how big a solar panel would be required to run this big Samsung fridge, Stand alone solar panel just for the fridge on a sunny day, MPPT controller and Battery monitor will also be installed, Chinese 12 Volt 5000 Watt Pure Sine invertor is $500-00 Delivered, I bought one for my Boat, It runs a 5 inch grinder and a 500 watt Drill under load at the same time off two AGM batterys,
Being in Sunny Australia, I am going to put solar panels on the roof to run everything, so avoiding the use of the Generator most of the time unless needed,
My sailboat is totally self sufficient for power, same set up as my RV, but I also have a wind generator on the Boat, But no Generator, Alternator off the diesel is rarely used for power for the batterys, I have 280 Watts of Solar on the boat,
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: amos.harrison on December 20, 2012, 09:40:33 pm
I was surprised at David Flanagan's labor estimate of 25 hours for my coach. That puts the project in a whole different league since my 13 year old Dometic continues to work just fine.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dick Henry on December 21, 2012, 10:32:38 am
Dave estimated labor for my coach at apx 15 hours. That includes rebuilding the cabinet to fit the fridge. My cabinet does not require much rebuilding as the new fridge is such a close fit. Lets hope there are no problems in the installation. I realize at the current labor rate cost add up fast but so far the estimated cost of the fridge and installation is about as cheep as a replacing the Dometic which I don't want.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Rudy on December 21, 2012, 11:00:54 am
Wow on the labor cost. My long time RV repair friend down here in Baytown did my refrigerator in 3.5 hours including removing the Dometic, tweaking the hole, installing, securing in place and adding a walnut trim board.
My Blue Bell ice cream is always firm and ready to eat plus no fire hazard.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: philtravel on December 21, 2012, 02:42:37 pm
I had 15 to 18 Hrs. most with two of us to complete the job. I may be slow but can't imagine 3.5 Hrs including cleanup and prep.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on December 21, 2012, 03:06:41 pm
I always get a chuckle out of the estimated time required, it seems to very depending on if your working with a small owner operator (very reasonable quote) or a larger concern where the work is done by an hourly worker (not such a reasonable quote). Just my experience in general, however there are times when the high end shop will do a better & cleaner job. It all depends on many things, so there remains the old saying, "you get what you pay for, if your lucky" I stick with Xtreme, MOT & FOT and smile. :) Merry Chyristmas Dave M
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Rudy on December 21, 2012, 03:46:33 pm
Philtravel,
I did not have to imagine 3.5 hours, I got to actually pay 3.5 hours of labor. Sure bets paying 25 hours of labor you know.
Smiling all the way too at the factory looking job.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John Haygarth on December 21, 2012, 05:34:37 pm
Sure glad I can do my changes myself or would be broke. Mine took a day for the swop over (help with carrying in and out the door) and I had some real fine tweeking to do. It took me another couple of weeks making the sliding box and insert for the side pantry and waiting for the door panel to be custom made. Could not be happier with it. John H
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: wolfe10 on December 21, 2012, 06:00:05 pm
Cost really does (and SHOULD) depend on difference in dimension between old and new as well as "how do I get the old one out/new one in".
I can tell you that replacing a Dometic 4804 with a newer 3962 took me two days of work. YES, done RIGHT. Complete rebuild of shelf (several inches lower), lining with fiberglass,trimming one vertical surface and running new vent through basement since the new refrigerator is installed below the level of the outside access door.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Michelle on December 21, 2012, 06:27:26 pm
Cost really does (and SHOULD) depend on difference in dimension between old and new as well as "how do I get the old one out/new one in".
Brett's right on target with that one - (most of) the newer residential fridges that folks are considering, like the Samsung, the Bosch, etc., are on the order of 68"+ high and 36" wide and at least 24" deep, so there's all the structure/storage above/below and adjacent to deal with. These aren't the Whirlpool 9.7 cu ft. ones that folks have been able to install themselves.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John S on December 22, 2012, 08:46:59 am
I have used Rudy's guy in Baytown for my Aquahot and can say that he is up to any task that is put before him. In fact I would put him in the same league and James at Xtreme or MOT for service and he is very reasonable. If I was going to do my fridge I would look very closely at having him install it and then let someone else do the trim work if it is needed.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dean & Dee on December 22, 2012, 09:43:41 am
Brett's right on target with that one - (most of) the newer residential fridges that folks are considering, like the Samsung, the Bosch, etc., are on the order of 68"+ high and 36" wide and at least 24" deep, so there's all the structure/storage above/below and adjacent to deal with. These aren't the Whirlpool 9.7 cu ft. ones that folks have been able to install themselves.
Speaking of the Whirlpool 9.7 ET0MSRXTB it appears to be discontinued. Has anyone found a comparable replacement? Fridge replacement is on my long term mod list and that's the model/size that works for us.
What really frost's me is my son had someone give him a brand new Black Whirlpool 9.7 cu. ft. which sat in my garage for a couple months. Ended up giving it to a friend who has an apartment complex. 20/20 hindsight.... >:(
Dean
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: erniee on December 22, 2012, 06:39:37 pm
I'm going to Lowes in the am and will check to see what replacement there is for that 9.7
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dean & Dee on December 22, 2012, 10:05:59 pm
I'm going to Lowes in the am and will check to see what replacement there is for that 9.7
Thanks Erniee, appreciate any info you might find and I am sure others would too. I have briefly looked to see what might be available in a similer size with the rear condensing coils but need to do some more digging. Our stock Dometic fridge is still working fine but like many folks I like the idea of eliminating the propane/fridge factor with it's potential issues.
Merry Christmas, D&D
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: TheBrays on December 22, 2012, 10:19:06 pm
Thanks Erniee, appreciate any info you might find and I am sure others would too. I have briefly looked to see what might be available in a similer size with the rear condensing coils but need to do some more digging. Our stock Dometic fridge is still working fine but like many folks I like the idea of eliminating the propane/fridge factor with it's potential issues.
Merry Christmas, D&D
What looks like a replacement is the Whirlpool WRT111SFAW altho it doesn't look like it has the rear coils. See Whirlpool WRT111SFAW 11 cu. ft. Top-Freezer Refrigerator with 2 Removable Wire (http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/WRT111SFAW.html) and 10.7 cu. ft. Top Freezer Refrigerator in White-WRT111SFAW at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-203554368/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=Whirlpool+WRT111SFAW&storeId=10051&superSkuId=203505002)
HTH elliott bray
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on December 23, 2012, 12:07:55 am
Lowe's still has a 2' x 5' electric refrigerator with coils on back. Brand is now Haier and model is HA10TG20SB for the black model. Haier looks a bit sturdier than our Whirlpool, but very similar in all respects with no surprises. Label: capacity 10.3 cu-ft, freezer 2.5 cu-ft, amps 2.6, defrost amps 3.5, R134a.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on December 23, 2012, 01:01:29 am
Barry & Cindy, I would love to know the installation using the refrig with the coils up the rear vs the models with the coils underneath. Would enjoy your take on the best installation of the type you prefer. This is my biggest concern for the refrigerator, and would love an ice maker but the water etc in door is not a concern. Thanks Dave M
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Rick on December 23, 2012, 09:19:39 am
Just a thought to avoid condensation drip and it's related issues. A slide out drip pan with a drain hose running down and out.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dean & Dee on December 23, 2012, 10:09:44 am
Lowe's still has a 2' x 5' electric refrigerator with coils on back. Brand is now Haier and model is HA10TG20SB for the black model. Haier looks a bit sturdier than our Whirlpool, but very similar in all respects with no surprises. Label: capacity 10.3 cu-ft, freezer 2.5 cu-ft, amps 2.6, defrost amps 3.5, R134a.
Hmmm, I don't seem to find the Haier on Lowe's website. Maybe it's a store specific model. Looks good though.
Dean
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Patricia on December 23, 2012, 10:37:18 am
Hmmm, I don't seem to find the Haier on Lowe's website. Maybe it's a store specific model. Looks good though.
Dean... you're right - this is a store-specific model. When I put the Lowes item number (150645 - from the last photo Barry & Cindy posted), the Lowes website couldn't find a match, but did have this disclaimer: "Not all products carried in Lowe's stores are carried on Lowes.com. Contact your local Lowe's to find out whether we carry the product you need."
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on December 23, 2012, 11:41:20 am
Dave,
We are only familiar with installing our fridge that has outside rear coils, like the photos of the Lowe's Haier model. Which move the heat from the inside of the fridge to the outside space behind our fridge which is sealed from outside.
Most home fridge designs use a bottom condenser coil with an amp-drawing fan that blows warm air back into living space. And some of these bottom designs MAY use the side of the metal cabinet to dissipate some heat. I am not sure if the backside of the bottom condenser space is sealed or open. I think that a bottom condenser cannot be an RV deal breaker as all larger home refrigerators use this design and they work just fine in high-end all-electric motorhomes, including Prevost conversions and Foretravel.
Here is some more details on fridge installations. Residential fridge (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=13454.msg74516#msg74516)
Does this answer your question?
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on December 23, 2012, 04:16:05 pm
Barry, Yes & Thanks. Have been looking at the Samsung counter depth, abt 24 cu ft size, way too large, but otherwise seems to fit the bill. in the tall 68" area, so the storage below will disapear. The larger counter depth models run in the $2k area, was hoping for under $1k, seems when you say counter depth, price is out the window and going up & up. Thanks for the info. Merry Christmas Dave M
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Ted H on December 23, 2012, 10:39:50 pm
Last year I had to replace the fridge on the boat.. same space issues, I found the big box stores to be of little help. Their floor inventory is very limited and the sales help knew even less... I found AJ Madisons web site gave me the make model and size info I needed right on the front page without clicking back and forth web page after page: Refrigerators - Refrigerator (http://www.ajmadison.com/refrigerators) I ended up going with the Samsung 197 from Abe's of Main due to the free shipping: http://www.abesofmaine.com/item.do?item=SSGRF197ACBP (http://www.abesofmaine.com/item.do?item=SSGRF197ACBP) I was shocked when the frig showed up 2 days after ordering it.. seems it was shipped from a warehouse about 15 miles away from me. As for the Samsung fridge I love it.. Cut my power bill by a 1/3, When anchored out I can go 3 days without running the genny where I would only get by about a day with the old fridge before I had to fire up the genny.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Tim Fiedler on December 23, 2012, 11:20:02 pm
I have used AJMadison in Sticks and Bricks multiple times - easy, fast, good prices - beat the local top reseller ABT most of the time, and the big box stores almost all the time - plus you save sales tax -
most big boxes will price match AJmadison if you print off the price and bring it in - My local Home depot will I know
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dean & Dee on December 24, 2012, 10:14:54 am
I am curious if anyone has considered a bottom freezer fridge for their coach? Looks like there are some that may fit. Danby DFF261 9.2 cu. ft. Bottom-Freezer Mid-Size Refrigerator with 2 Adjustable (http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/DFF261.html)
Dean
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on December 25, 2012, 05:34:25 pm
Electric frost-free refrigerators have an evaporator coil, located behind a panel inside the rear of the freezer. A fan moves air over the cold coil into the freezer which then flows into the refrigerator.
The coils slowly frost up from moisture in the air.
All frost-free refrigerators have a timer that periodically turns off the compressor, and turns on an electric heater that is wrapped around the evaporator coil, to melt any accumulated frost and ice. Melted water drains out of the freezer into a pan that sits on top of the compressor. A running compressor is supposed to create enough heat to evaporate water in the pan.
Timers only run when thermostat calls for cold, and after a pre-set number of running hours, the timer starts the defrost heater cycle.
We have had our Whirlpool fridge for 18 months and have not had any battery problems on the few times we dry camped 1 or 2 nights during the 18 months. We will be going back to Quartzsite again in January where we dry camp for 10 days in a row with the Lemon Rally, but this is our first time since we changed from a propane to electric refrigerator. We normally run our generator daily during our stay, but we always want to be sure we can get through about 10 hours of quiet time without deep discharging our batteries.
Since we seem to have no control when the defrost heater cycle will start, I decided to see if we can prevent heater running during quiet hours.
I looked at the fridge's wiring diagram, made a few assumptions on how things work and put a switch on some wires to prevent the heater from turning on.
We plan to turn on our new manual bypass switch before we turn off our generator at about 10pm and then turn the bypass switch back to normal when we start our generator in the morning.
We run our generator when we are hunkered down inside during the evening to charge batteries and also keep them from discharging while we watch TV, run computer and have lights / heaters on. And then run the generator for about an hour in the morning to help recover any overnight battery use, while we do our morning stuff.
In bypass mode, fridge timer still runs as normal, but the electricity to the heater switch is bypassed, so if timer decides to close the heater switch, no electricity will flow to the heater. We don't know if too much ice will build up if we bypass too many defrost cycles. Time will tell. The electric refrigerator saga continues.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John Haygarth on December 25, 2012, 06:52:31 pm
Barry, as we have the same unit I would be interested in knowing which wire/s you put the dissconnect on. With us using solar and I do not put gen on it may help us more. John H
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on December 26, 2012, 10:43:49 pm
John,
Timer has 4 wires. Black wire is wall-plug hot which the timer normally connects to the orange thermostat wire and then the compressor. During the defrost cycle, the timer disconnects from the orange thermostat wire and connects to the pink heater wire. I only have the wiring diagram to make assumptions on how things probably work.
I unplugged the black wire from the timer and ran it to the center pole of a new manual double-throw switch. I ran a new wire from the switch's normal pole to the timer where I removed the black wire. I ran a new wire from the switch's bypass pole to the orange wire.
Manual switch in normal position, nothing is changed. Changing manual switch bypass position, disconnects power to timer, so if timer starts heater cycle, there is no electricity to heater, and compressor will continue to run if thermostat calls for cold. In bypass position, when timer is not in defrost mode, there will be no change.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Bill Willett on December 28, 2012, 01:10:46 pm
I'm going to Lowes in the am and will check to see what replacement there is for that 9.7
Erniee, check out the Frigidaire web sight, they have several 10 and 12 cu. ft. units that may work.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on December 31, 2012, 12:15:25 pm
Electric usage on our Whirlpool refrigerator
I checked out our manual defrost heater bypass and here are the results:
1) Zero watts with compressor & defrost heater off 2) About 125 watts with normal compressor running 3) About 335 watts when defrost heater is on (compressor is off)
4) When defrost heater is on, moving my manual switch to bypass turns off heater & turns on compressor, and moving switch back to normal position, compressor turns off and heater turns back on.
We are ready for Quartzsite. . . Barry & Cindy
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: TheBrays on December 31, 2012, 10:53:27 pm
Availability of Whirlpool Ref.:
I checked yesterday with Lowes in Austin re: the Whirlpool they used to carry. (the 9.7 cuft Barry has). There were two in Bryan/College Station. Don't know how wide an are he searched but sounds like the supply is just about gone.
Whirlpool has come out with a 10.7 just aboul the same size. HTH
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Tim Fiedler on December 31, 2012, 11:14:36 pm
ABT.com has 7 bottom freezer and 2 top freezer models that are 24 inches wide or less. Not sure if any of these would work. AJmadison has a white 10.7 cubic foot Whirlpool in stock, not sure if it is the correct refrigerator. AJ madison also has a Danby that is 24 inches wide, I personally had not so good luck with one of their refrigeration products.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: TheBrays on January 01, 2013, 10:10:59 pm
Slap the forehead!! Say "Duh-aa!!!"
I have just been freed from the tyranny of the 24" door, albeit at some cost!! All it took was for me to realize that that crack which I watched creep across the bottom of my driver's windshield ment that sometime in the not too distant future I would could get a larger referigator. Isn't life grand!! ;D
Happy New Year!! b^.^d
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on January 01, 2013, 11:01:08 pm
We put our fridge in at Xtreme when they had our windows out when painting our coach. We even used Xtreme's forklift for in and out through the side window.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on January 01, 2013, 11:05:57 pm
Photos of our Whirlpool wiring:
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: erniee on January 02, 2013, 08:02:05 am
I checked out the frigidaire website. their prices are a couple hundred bucks more then what Lowes had. But- if your Lowes doesn't have them, I guess their price is not that bad. I did not check out the larger door units as in my situation, all I can fit in is a 10 foot unit.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John Haygarth on January 02, 2013, 10:55:17 am
I had mine come thru the doorway, did not have to remove anything--tight though. Barry, on the wiring, did you do the wiring change at rear or in panel inside as your pic shows behind light? I have been sick with bad cough and cold so have not had a good look yet at it all. Rergards John
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on January 04, 2013, 05:01:12 pm
Any experience with the Frigidare counter depth, about $1,500.00 side by side ? Thanks Dave M
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on January 04, 2013, 07:19:49 pm
One of the best side by side fridges according to : Side-by-side refrigerators - Refrigerators Reviews (http://www.consumersearch.com/refrigerators/side-by-side-refrigerators)
Pierce
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John S on January 07, 2013, 11:53:18 am
Well it is later.....
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Bill Willett on January 07, 2013, 11:55:56 am
Double Time :P :P :P
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on January 07, 2013, 12:51:07 pm
It is being worked on, the old is out, the new is inside on floor, making box to raise up 5" I think, Lunch arrived, be rite back.
Dave M
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John S on January 07, 2013, 06:26:20 pm
Wow nice.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Michelle on January 07, 2013, 06:52:39 pm
Well, the Big Samsung is in and working, not complete as to finishing up the cabinet work etc., First thought, BIG.
Wow - nice! Which model Samsung did you go with?
As to "BIG", no more worries as to where to stash all those "white boxes" of leftovers from Clear Springs, Auntie Pasta's, Whattaburger, etc ;D And Blue Bell ice cream for the freezer!
Michelle
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Kathleen Smith on January 07, 2013, 09:31:08 pm
pictures?????? please!
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Kathleen Smith on January 07, 2013, 09:35:01 pm
OMG!!! It is beautiful!!!!!!! I lust after your new refrigerator!
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Michelle on January 07, 2013, 10:48:12 pm
As I see the big issue, It will hold enough chow to last me until half of it goes bad.
Don't knock that space. You'll be surprised how much room fresh fruits and veggies take, especially leafy greens :-* Kale chips are a healthy and delicious alternative to Lays or Pringles ;)
(running and ducking)
Michelle
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: txforetravel on January 07, 2013, 10:55:10 pm
Oh yea, Just LOVE those Kale chips!
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: MR B2 on January 08, 2013, 10:29:10 am
Certainly get a lot of beer in there, Looks grouse,
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dick Henry on January 09, 2013, 12:51:01 pm
David at FT just completed installing my new Samsung RF197ACRS today. They did a fantastic job. It's not as big as Daves however it fit's in the same space as the old Dometic with very little wood work. Since the fridge is taller they had to lower the floor. I did loose a storage drawer under the old fridge but it was worth it. Took apx. 16 hours to install. They also made a custom velcro strap to hold the doors shut while traveling. Thank you David, Brent and Ricky.
Purchased the fridge at PC Richard & Son for $1218.97 tot. which included shipping to FT.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John S on January 09, 2013, 08:07:26 pm
It looks very nice. I saw the job they did at FT and I can say it is very professional.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Michelle on January 09, 2013, 10:09:19 pm
David at FT just completed installing my new Samsung RF197ACRS today. They did a fantastic job.
Very nice! Was the Samsung French door your choice or David's recommendation? I know he's done a Bosch side-by-side in one coach.
Michelle
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John S on January 09, 2013, 10:18:50 pm
Michelle, the style you can use depends on your coach year and what is under the fridge. In my year I have electronics under it so I need to try to find a sub 70 inch fridge. Also you have to determine the width too and in my case I have a hallway where the fridge is so I have to stay under 24 inches deep and no more than 36 inches wide. He likes either the two door or the three door depending on the room.
I also asked him about switching out the stove at the same time. It is about 500 dollars or so for an electric stove and that means I can get rid of the propane tank and either get more storage or even a couple more batteries.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dick Henry on January 10, 2013, 12:06:56 pm
Thanks Michelle. I chose the french door because it was similar to the Dometic and would allow me to open the door with minimal obstruction. David had no recommendations and only told me what he had installed for other people. I actually had a friend who had installed this refrigerator in his 5th wheel. I liked it so well, especially noticing that it would fit in my coach, that I ordered one. We closed off the roof vent and installed a removable insulated panel inside the original coach side refrigerator access panel in case I needed access to the back of the fridge. The Samsung cooling units (2) are at the bottom of the fridge and vent into the coach. I don't see that this will be a problem as any heat this generates will be small. In my set up there seems to be enough space behind the fridge, as well as a small vent in the side cabinet, to provide enough ventilation. So far it is working great.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: wayne m on January 10, 2013, 04:12:24 pm
atom6 my rf197acrs is being delivered next week. how did they secure the fridge in place and how is the bottom drawer secured? I can't wait to be done with my non working three year old $4000.00 dometic ndr1292. thanks wayne
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dick Henry on January 10, 2013, 07:35:24 pm
Hello Wayne. The bottom rear of the fridge is screwed to the floor. This pretty much anchored the fridge in place. They also placed two small aluminum plates in the top front wood frame. They extend down to brace the top of the fridge. They are a brace and not screwed into the fridge. This was an extra precaution which would stop any possible movement such as being on a rough road, etc. The plates show up more than I like but I don't know how else it could be done. The bottom drawer (freezer) of the fridge has a factory internal lock that automatically lock's the door when its closed. To open the freezer you pull up on the handle. Every thing works great. The freezer is cranking out ice like mad and the ice-cream is frozen solid.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: erniee on January 10, 2013, 08:17:04 pm
If the secure plates show- paint them black.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Ted H on January 11, 2013, 11:07:45 pm
Wayne, When I installed a RF197 on my boat I was told not to screw or drill the top or sides of the box as the refrig coils are very close to the skin and it would be very easy to make the new box about as good as the one coming out :'( ...... To keep the box from tilting over I used a large block of oak screwed to the rear wall. To keep it from rolling I replaced the rubber thumb screw pads on the bottom front with thru bolts screwed into the floor. I use velcro like Dave M for the doors. Never have had a issue with the freezer drawer coming open. I have a friend who cut a 1/4" plywood U that goes behind the french door handles and hangs down thru the freezer handle. His DW made a nice cover for it so it does not rub the finish on the box.
Cheers
Ted
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave Katsuki on January 11, 2013, 11:36:25 pm
When I installed our residential fridge, I secured the top with 3M VHB tape (double-sided adhesive):
Used VHB to attach two 2" x 1/4" x 6" (I think) pieces of aluminum bar to the top, sticking out into the existing fridge cooling well (need to take the upper vent cover off). Then attached two alum angle pieces to the alum bars and screwed into the sides of the cooling well at the top. Easier to do than describe, and totally invisible! 3M VHB tape is extremely strong, and will keep your fridge top as stable as the roof. (If you never want to get your fridge out again, you could also just VHB the angle pieces directly to the fridge top :)) )
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John Haygarth on January 12, 2013, 10:45:19 am
same fridge as Dave (and others used) I caulked with black silicone around the front outside edge of fridge to the finished wood frame, and as doors are resessed into framing you see nothing. Even with doors open it is hard to see it due to cabinet of fridge being black. At the rear I just used 2 screws at the bottom to hold down rear. Nothing moves. The door securing brkt I designed is also unobtrusive and works well, and, barely noticable. John H
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Barry & Cindy on January 17, 2013, 11:59:47 pm
Barry, on the wiring, did you do the wiring change at rear or in panel inside as your pic shows behind light? I have been sick with bad cough and cold so have not had a good look yet at it all. Rergards John
I just saw your question. Wiring to bypass defrost timer was done inside fridge near timer on right side. Wires are hidden from view behind plastic trim. We unplugged the whole plastic inside panel and put it on a table to work on it.
No access to timer wiring on outside of fridge.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John Haygarth on January 18, 2013, 10:27:19 am
thanks Barry for the info. I thought you were ignoring me!!!! (not true) Will work on mine when we get home as I have a bunch of projects on the go now with my friends C Coach Magna. We are in Phx next month and have been informed by another friend from Calgary that they are waiting for me in Phx as I now have a bunch of things they need fixing on their class C. Life is fun. John H
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on January 22, 2013, 05:00:45 pm
Went to the local Lowes today to get some facts on my Samsung 24.1 cuft refrig, had to roll it out of line, get behind it and found some interesting data: Max Amps, 6.2 A Fzr Defrost circuit 102.6 Ohms Ref Defrost circuit 57.6 Ohms
The defrost heaters can be turned on/off as desired, mine are on when plugged in, off when on batteries.
Then there is the blink codes 1 thru 6 for trouble info.
Thought some might like this info.
Enjoy Dave M
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John S on January 22, 2013, 05:06:09 pm
How does the fridge know you are on batteries. Do you have to manually do it each time.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on January 22, 2013, 06:03:09 pm
John, I do not think the refrig knows anything beyond the 120VAC is or is not available. I push the button on the display panel to turn the normal or the econ mode, Normal is with all the full features of frost free and the Econ is with the frost free off. This may be 100% incorrect, but it is my guess only, until I know more I will go with it. The Lowes salesman said I should be glad I did not go with the Frigidare as the Samsung has far less issues. That is what I got from reading a report somewhere too. There is a large element of luck involved with all these toys. Cheers dave M
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John S on January 22, 2013, 06:08:23 pm
Thanks Dave, I figured it had to be something like that.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Chub on January 24, 2013, 01:32:28 pm
I am wondering why so many are changing to the household type refrigerator, there must be a large reason. Why ? Cost, dependability or better temp control ? Chub
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave Head on January 24, 2013, 01:45:38 pm
all of the above.
Not having your coach burn to the ground...
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John S on January 24, 2013, 05:42:08 pm
So dometic stopped making one that is the same size so you either go smaller or do cabinet work. I am doing mine in April.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on January 24, 2013, 07:22:49 pm
John, FWIW, this new Samsung has me spoiled, yes it is large and works for a pantry storage for dry goods too, neaning I now have more useable storage, but having the choice of type of ice in the door (cube or crushed) and ice water, must makes me laugh, what luxury. So much more that I expected and finally found the correct freezer temp for etable ice cream, 8 deg. ;D Your 42 ' would be perfect for this size. Smile Dave M
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John S on January 24, 2013, 11:35:57 pm
April Dave. Next trip south to TX.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dean & Dee on January 25, 2013, 08:44:45 am
Lowe's still has a 2' x 5' electric refrigerator with coils on back. Brand is now Haier and model is HA10TG20SB for the black model. Haier looks a bit sturdier than our Whirlpool, but very similar in all respects with no surprises. Label: capacity 10.3 cu-ft, freezer 2.5 cu-ft, amps 2.6, defrost amps 3.5, R134a.
Went to Lowes yesterday and they had the Haier 24"x60" on the floor. Liked everything about it except the door storage. Looked like less then we currently have in the Dometic. We like to keep all of our small items in the door and they have a silly can holder in leiu of shelves but I am sure we could come up with something to make it work.
There was no price on it and I couldn't find anyone that wanted to help so I will find out later. Dean
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: 2Escapees on January 26, 2013, 12:13:37 pm
FOT installed a residential side by side unit for us recently. It is a Frigidaire 22.6 c.f. counter depth model and David's crew did a great job with the installation - it looks wonderful in the coach. The width is very close to the original Dometic unit - we lost the bottom cabinet but these rigs have so much storage in them who cares! The water/ice dispenser in the door is very handy and does not stick out in the hallway.
Shop Frigidaire Gallery 22.6 cu ft Side-by-Side Counter-Depth Refrigerator (http://www.lowes.com/pd_330225-2251-LGHC2342LF_4294857967__?productId=3203183&Ns=p_product_avg_rating|1)
We also replaced the Microphor toilet. Never did like it very much as it was too low and the parts are hideously expensive - the "hopper" needed replacing ($800 just for the parts) so we put in an electric flush Thetford Aria Deluxe II that is much taller, has a switchable water mode for dry camping, and only costs $600. The base is narrower than the Microphor but Ricky filled in the holes in the ceramic tile with a perfect color match.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John S on January 26, 2013, 03:55:31 pm
Looks good guys.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: kb0zke on March 10, 2013, 10:08:07 pm
Just read through this entire thread since it seems that our refrigerator is dead. I'm thinking that I'll get the old unit out first, measure the available space, look for replacements whenever we're down in Springfield, pick what we want, get measurements, then do whatever is necessary to fix the space to make it ready for the new unit. Finally I'll go get the new refrigerator and make it go into the space prepared for it.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on March 11, 2013, 03:27:47 am
The only down side (so far) with my large refrig in the my 36' due to the sliding door track for bath, the frig door only opens 90 degrees, that is not far enough to be able to fully open the slider drawers, they open about 6". that is enough for my vegs, not far enough for a full head of lettice, why I feel the longer coach would have a lesser issue with the door track further away from the frig position. Just a thought. Dave M
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Tim Fiedler on March 11, 2013, 12:07:40 pm
I have a 6" ish pantry to the right of the refrigerator door, before the slider into the bath, so I don't think I will have that issue.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: MR B2 on June 05, 2013, 08:22:11 am
Does the fridge fit through the door or do you have take it through a window,
I have a Dometic (gas= electric) fridge on my Catamaran, It wont come out through the door or any where else, It was installed and the top of the boat dropped on,
They must think these things last for ever, Duhhhh,
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on June 05, 2013, 08:28:49 am
Brian, I picture a hacksaw/portaband/plasma cutter in the future of removing that refrig from your boat, then what goes back in ? Good luck Dave M
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Tim Fiedler on June 05, 2013, 08:36:05 am
on my 89, the new one was the same size as the old one, they both went out the door and came in the door, barely...
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Tim Fiedler on June 05, 2013, 08:36:53 am
for the boat, pulling the refrig and putting in a new coil while still in the boat is probably the most practical solution.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: D.J. Osborn on June 05, 2013, 07:45:21 pm
for the boat, pulling the refrig and putting in a new coil while still in the boat is probably the most practical solution.
Replacing the cooling unit is definitely one viable option.
The Dometic RM7130 in our motorhome died while on vacation last March. Troubleshooting indicated a bad cooling unit. After evaluating various options, our desire to be able to do extended boondocking without excessive generator use led us to investigate installing a new cooling unit. Research led us to purchase a new cooling unit through David Force at RV Cooling Unit Warehouse (http://rvcoolingunit.com) . The units are manufactured by the Amish at JC Refrigeration in Shipshewana, Indiana. The price differential between paying shipping and then installing the unit myself and having it installed at JC Refrigeration was small enough that it was a "no brainer" (and it made a good excuse for a nice weekend in Northern Indiana). So far, it appears to have been an excellent decision. The installation took about four hours, and the refrigerator is now extremely cold.
I know that others make different decisions based upon their needs and wants, but we are pleased with the choice we made.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Hans&Marjet on June 05, 2013, 08:00:31 pm
David.
What model fridge did you purchase ?. Photo's available of the finished product.
Hans
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Tim Fiedler on June 05, 2013, 08:08:52 pm
I agree, if close to installer, letting them do it is absolutely a no brainer. Might not work so well for a boat. :-)
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: D.J. Osborn on June 05, 2013, 08:13:03 pm
What model fridge did you purchase ?. Photo's available of the finished product.
Hans
The refrigerator itself is the original one. It's a Dometic RM7130 in the same original installation. I had JC Refrigeration install a new cooling unit (they manufactured) in the original refrigerator. They pulled the refrigerator, laid it on the motorhome floor, removed the old cooling unit and installed a new cooling unit. To improve efficiency, they also installed a baffle and a fan in the rear of the enclosure in which the refrigerator is installed.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: MR B2 on June 08, 2013, 06:40:20 am
Thanks for the replies, My fridge in the Bus works, It was for future reference if I ever have to repair or replace it, Knowing it will come out the door is a relief,
My boat fridge got drowned when the boat sank, Looks like it will be repaired on the salon table, As it wont come out through any thing, with out cutting it up, Then I cant get a new one in except in bits,
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John Haygarth on June 08, 2013, 06:44:59 am
Brian, who did you use for your conversion for Ausie as friends of mine have bought a new Tiffen and will be having it changed over to ship home to Aus'. They are in Vegas at the moment and I said I new someone that had had it done. Did it get done correctly or were some items wrong?? John H in Portugal right now
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Gayle McNeece on July 15, 2013, 11:50:54 am
We are going have a residential refrigerator (Samsung 197) installed in August at Oregon Motorcoach Company.
In looking at the pictures of other installations, all of the installs seem to show the refrigerator mounted up off the floor so that the frig feet sort of hang in the air. I can understand this if the coach has the intellitec lighting under the original frig but why are other refrigerator installations also mounted up off the floor instead of the frig sitting down, flush on the floor so that its feet aren't hanging in the air? The feet dangling in the air looks sort of funny to me.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Tim Fiedler on July 15, 2013, 11:59:53 am
There is plumbing in that space that you have to stay above or the unit would stick out another 4-6 inches. Take a look in the storage space under your current refrigerator and you will see the issues at the back of that space near wall
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John Haygarth on July 15, 2013, 12:14:20 pm
Gayle, what do you mean by "feet hanging in the air"? Mine has storage space under and not the problem you mention. Tim is correct, there are various pipes etc that you must stay clear of and the only way to do it is stay off floor by at least 6" or more. The installers will find out what we are talking about once they try to do what you want John H
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John S on July 15, 2013, 05:54:49 pm
I have mine about two inches off the floor. Just fits.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: bogeygolfer on July 31, 2013, 10:18:49 am
We just replaced our fridge with an electric one from Lowe's based on Rudy Leggett's recommendation and we're very pleased with the outcome. This is a Haier 10.3 cu.ft. model that cost $349 at my local Lowe's store.
Cutting Edge RV in Baytown, Texas did the installation and I think it turned out better than I expected. The walnut panel is very close to the same color as the existing woodwork - it looks better in person than in these photos.
The old fridge is still sitting at their place, and I don't think it has any use. I did save the doors, mainly for the wood panels on the front.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: wa_desert_rat on July 31, 2013, 10:29:53 am
We just replaced our fridge with an electric one from Lowe's based on Rudy Leggett's recommendation and we're very pleased with the outcome. This is a Haier 10.3 cu.ft. model that cost $349 at my local Lowe's store.
This is the first electric refrigerator install that could possibly fit into my U225 fridge-slot. All the others have been too big. I like the pricing, too.
Thanks for the pics.
Craig
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: kenhat on July 31, 2013, 11:29:01 am
@Chris looks like they did a great job! How do you secure the doors for travel?
see ya ken
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John Haygarth on July 31, 2013, 11:45:23 am
That is very similar to our Whirlpool that many have and my door lock I made would work well on this too. If any one wants a simple effective lock that does not stand out mine is it. John H
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: bogeygolfer on July 31, 2013, 11:57:25 am
@Ken - Rudy showed me his locking mechanism...blue painter's tape! And it worked great on the 30 mile ride home.
John, I'll look back and try to see what you used.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: JohnFitz on July 31, 2013, 01:24:22 pm
@Ken - Rudy showed me his locking mechanism...blue painter's tape! And it worked great on the 30 mile ride home.
Just a suggestion, but check out the locking/latching devices that they have at HD/Lowes in the baby proofing area. I saw some nice looking ones in black.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: bogeygolfer on July 31, 2013, 01:52:19 pm
Thanks John, I'll do that.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John Haygarth on July 31, 2013, 02:17:50 pm
here are a couple of mine. I used a 5/16th bolt screwed into one of the holes that you use to hang the door in reverse and made a small strip of aluminum to sit over bolt and the pressure of door holds the plate in place, We have now done a few thousand miles with it and it is solid. The little clip sits in the groove in main door when not in use so you do not loose it. Simple but very secure. John h
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Carol Savournin on July 31, 2013, 03:01:30 pm
I have been thinking and thinking and thinking about a replacement fridge. I am fairly convinced that when I do, it will not be one of the larger residential units, but rather a smaller, apartment size so I can preserve the storage space underneath and add some storage alongside. I just don't see the need for a huge refrigerator. We don't dry camp all that much, but by using a smaller unit and adding a second small inverter, dry camping will be easy to manage. The storage in a small fridge is easily as much as the NDR1492 that we have now. I plan on buying a portable ice maker when they are on sale, and not needing one built into the fridge. That's MY plan ... and I am pretty sure that I am sticking with it.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John Haygarth on July 31, 2013, 03:24:01 pm
Carol. when you make the change if you want a slide out pantry like I made and Ruth really likes I can send you my drawing etc so you can have one made from it. There may be some small changes in your sizes but once the fridge is in you will have those measurements John H
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John S on July 31, 2013, 05:08:04 pm
Carol I found the rf197 does not really hurt anything drycamping. We did lose a cabinet underneath but gained a huge amount if space inte fridge. We uses to keep drinks under the fridge and some pots and pans and a toaster. Now the toaster is in a drawer and we have all the drinks in the fridge with an ice maker and have a small plastic tote in the closet that holds a few thing only. Much better use of space and w have what we need in the fridge and freezer. Dave M uses his extra fridge space for storage but he has a 24 cf version.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Rudy on July 31, 2013, 05:37:05 pm
Carol,
Carolyn and I had a cabinet man install slide out pantry similar to John H's. The profiles milled into the new pantry panels matches the Foretravel profiles exactly so it looks factory installed.
We really like our refrigerator and hope you would too.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John S on July 31, 2013, 05:41:06 pm
I saw Rudy's setup and it is very nice and the storage is a nice extra plus too.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Carol Savournin on July 31, 2013, 06:46:18 pm
I would be totally happy with Bogeygolfer's set-up and a nice broom closet alongside. More useable food storage than the Dometic AND a place for other stuff!!
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: txforetravel on July 31, 2013, 07:45:58 pm
Carol, those brooms are overrated! Go with the big assed fridge with everything thru the door, including a beer tap! Now your getting somewhere!
:)
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave Head on July 31, 2013, 07:51:38 pm
You can also add a bay freezer/reefer should you need more room.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Gayle McNeece on August 15, 2013, 10:57:09 am
We just had the Samsung RF197 installed in our 2003 U320. We are very pleased with the resulting installation. It looks nice. We like how the cabinetry work was done. We like the latch for the freezer drawer. It is too early to tell how well we will like the frig layout but it appears to be more than adequate. It will be nice to not have to worry about keeping the frig at foodsafe temperatures. Within 2 hours of plugging the frig in, the freezer was at -2 degrees; the frig at 38 degrees :D
We had the installation done at Oregon Motorcoach Center in Eugene, OR. We were hoping that this would be a place that we would want to continue to come to since we spend most of our time in the Washington/Oregon area. However, although we are pleased with the installation, we were unhappy at the cost of the installation.
The frig itself cost $1550 -- I wanted the platinum stainless that, at least in theory, does not show fingerprints. The cost, since I didn't plan this far enough in advance to shop sales, was reasonable.
However, the installation was 26 manhours -- and Jim did MOST of the deconstruction. He removed/reinstalled the side window valances and window ledge. He removed the two drawers under the frig and all related hardware. It took OMC a full day to unplug the old frig, cap the propane line (they simply turned the water pump off to cease the flow of water so that night Jim had to cap the water line), unbolt the frig and take the old frig out the side window. That night, seeing how slowly things were being done, Jim removed all of the old wood structure -- the side supports, the platform, and the front facia boards (he talked to the service writer about doing this). Everything was cleaned up and readied for the installation. And still 26 manhours to do the job.
For anyone who has followed my previous concerns: The frig is mounted as close to the floor as possible but it is off the floor about 2 inches. The bulge where the leveling feet would fit are hanging in the air. It looks funny. The feet bulge are part of the front vent plate. When we get someplace where Jim can do some woodwork, he will make a new front plate out of cherry (vented).
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: John S on August 15, 2013, 12:26:04 pm
You will love it. I know that is changed how easy it is to live in the coach. SHould have done this a long time ago. oh and FT charged me about 17 hours though they quoted 28 and I think they probably had that much in it.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave Head on August 15, 2013, 12:41:41 pm
I like that freezer latch!
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Gayle McNeece on August 15, 2013, 02:27:13 pm
The freezer latch is spiffy. At first I told them we didn't want them to provide the latch because their website shows big eye-bolts anchored on either side of the fridge with a big cable running through them across the front of the freezer. When I saw their new latch, however, I was sold. It looks nice.
Title: q
Post by: Tim Fiedler on August 15, 2013, 05:12:16 pm
freezer latch is SWEET!
Labor hours are excessive....perhaps you were the learning curve. Parliament in St. Petersburg quote 9 Hours @$110 (less 10% motorcader discount) and billed exactly that. May have taken a little more than that, but billed what they quoted and said they would do more at that same amount.
26 Hours????? what was the labor rate?
Bet you love it.....we love ours.
Can you find out the source for the freazer latch please?
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Gayle McNeece on August 15, 2013, 05:52:58 pm
Labor rate was $105/hr :(
We have left OMC so I'd suggest you just call and order one from them. On our bill, it is listed as Latch, 1-1/2" Sliding door for $16.92. OMC's phone number is 800-942-6860.
With Jim doing all the prep work and the deconstruction, we feel the 26 hours was excessive.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Tim Fiedler on August 15, 2013, 06:28:54 pm
Agree on excessive, mine was completed in one day, and probably took 12 hours, but they stuck with 9 hour quite.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on August 15, 2013, 07:18:05 pm
I also was pleased with the final charge for both frig Samsung 24 cf & labor out the door at $3,200 area, good wood work, still delighted with the outcome. Samsung at $2,100 and Labor $1,100. Done by Rudy's buddy Lee east of Houston. Now have freezer @ -4 & frig @ +36, Makes ice cream on the real stiff side and things stay good much longer than the original gas/ electric . No idea why more have not done the change.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Dick S on August 15, 2013, 08:28:31 pm
That latch is readily available. I was interested in this too when we were at OMC and took a couple photos of one they had in stock (see attached). Best price I saw was $4.40 plus shipping. Jim told me they get them from local hardware store.
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Tim Fiedler on August 16, 2013, 09:23:33 am
here is the latch on Amazon: Amazon.com: National Hardware V800 1-1/2-Inch Sliding Door Latch, Nickel: Home (http://www.amazon.com/National-Hardware-V800-2-Inch-Sliding/dp/B000FPAJ8S)
just ordered one with "Prime" shipping, be here Tuesday or before
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Jim McNeece on August 16, 2013, 10:48:55 am
The National Hardware latch is similar to ours, but not identical. Here is the exact one from Home Depot:
Prime-Line Patio Chrome Sliding Door Loop Lock-U 9847 at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Prime-Line-Patio-Chrome-Sliding-Door-Loop-Lock-U-9847/100168244#.Ug47QcUrYy4)
Jim
Title: Re: Residential fridge
Post by: Paul Smith on August 16, 2013, 12:01:21 pm
I added 2 photos of the door latches on our new fridge. For sourcing you could contact Dave at Sea Freeze, David Lehmann <david@seafreezeinc.com>
They are adjustable to keep the seal tight.
As I see it here the photos appear to be rotated 90 degrees. I tried to rotate them but they would not listen...