John,
I was sure once you tried the resonator change from the muffler, you would not want to go back.
It is another one of those things that reading the books, you just do not get it, some times you need to roll up your sleeves and do it. Congrats ;D
I plan on contacting my favorite exhaust guy in the next two weeks to let him decide on whether the Aero 5050XL (https://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/p-3711-aeroturbine-5050xl-resonated-replacement-muffler.aspx) is worth the money or to just go with the Walker. I really feel 'overhyped' with respect to the Aero...
Here is a 5" Walker... Walker Exhaust 21835 - Walker Resonators - Overview - SummitRacing.com (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-21835/)
Dave,
First on the first one you mention, it sure looks puuurty, but a 5"hole thru is a 5" hole no matter how much chrome you put on it ?
The shown Walker resonator loooks very short, they are not long, but that one is real sort looking.
The purpose of the resonator is to reduce the high pitch sounds while allowing unrestricted exhaust flow (they are directional) or at least that is what happens to the units I have installed them on.
My OPINION is the short versioln resonator would not reduce the high pitch sound as much. I am sure there are book educated folks on the forum that can clear that up, Just MY OPINION from sperience.
I vote for the standard alumaized resonator. Not a shorty as there is plenty room to install.
I just can't see 200 bucks for the aero. I'll let the exh guy advise me - he's never steered me wrong yet!
Dave I had my muffler replaced with the AERO 5050xl at the Family Reunion in Madison We. Drove home to Niagara Falls On (flat land) and really enjoy the Big increase in hp. MPG looked like 20% increase. We will soon be leaving for Tx (RGV) with a stop in Nac. at FOT. Will post with numbers on improvement.
there is a guy who stays the winter at la pas campground in parker az. who is a dealer for aero. I bought my aero 5050 from him last year for $130.00. I had been running a straight pipe for a few thousand miles, but it was just too loud. the new exhaust is a great upgrade.
check out this link? Is this the right part? looks like $127 with free shipping?
Aero Turbine 5050 5in in/out Muffler [AT5050] - $127.00 : Moe's Performance, (http://moesperformance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1665)
That is the 'shorty' model. The 5050XL is 193.50
I'm looking at FTE Resonators. They are popular with the Cummins truck crowd...
https://store.ftediesel.com/home/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=8
Resonator / Muffler 5" Stainless Steel, perfect for performance exhaust systems with un-wanted cab noise or drone.
This unique spiral design virtually eliminates the unwanted sound while keeping flow characteristics for both performance and EGT reduction.
Small and Simple Design makes this unit ideal for mounting in tight areas, heavy construction ensures it lasts a long time. See what customers are saying about their experience with this amazing product at
www.cumminsforum.com (http://www.cumminsforum.com), this product has proven itself to work great on all diesel powered trucks alike (Cummins, Powerstroke, and Duramax).
5" ID Inlet & Outlet
5" maximum diameter x 17.5" Over All Length - 12" Usable T409 SS Body
Eliminates irritating "Drone" & Cab Noise, maintains good sound out tailpipe or stacks
No gain in EGT or reduction in flow Premium grade product
Exhaust Parts Size: 5.0"
Material Type: SS T409
Finish: Matte
List Price: $145.95
Price: $106.75
I put the Aeros on my 460 gasser (duals) made lots more HP, and heat. Loved the sound and performance till I blew it up. Poor motor was overworked in that rig.
I split this out from the original discussion because it deserved its own thread. ^.^d
-M
I also plan to replace the original monster muffler on my 96 U320.
The Aero AT5050 is a muffler at $130 on eBay, while the Aero 5050XL is a muffler/resonator combination at $200 on eBay. The Aero 5050XL is 30 inches long while the AT5050 is quite a bit shorter.
Is the intent here to replace the original muffler with a muffler and a resonator, or with just a muffler, or with just a resonator?
I would not want to have a louder exhaust, it already rattles windows (a little).
Any input would be welcomed.
+1 on this... Watching this thread with interest. I would like to hear other comments regarding the sound difference between stock and this mod. I am all for reducing the restriction/EGT/Weight and increasing HP/Milage etc...
Don
+2 (1 for me, and 1 for Steve) - I imagine if it didn't harm fuel economy yet added a little pep at a very reasonable cost, what's not to love?
Michelle
Here have been several discussions on RV.net about the Aero mufflers. Most find the noise level high.
Consensus is that MagnaFlow is quieter and gives virtually the same performance: http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/displayapplications.asp?partnumber=12774 (http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/displayapplications.asp?partnumber=12774)
wyatt
the guy who sold me mine told me that the main difference between the two, was that the more expensive one would quiet things down a bit more.
I opted for a little more growl.
One of the chuckles I get out of this subject, for the most part, the increase in MPG seems to be slightly over looked, while I have no hard concrete figures at this point, I know from running a routine course between home in Va to Pittsburg, while the performance is much improved, the fuel burn is also less even while I was charging pretty hard on mtns. Actually climbing the hills on the Pa Turnpike west of Bedford toward Somerset, you can not run full throttle up the mountain toward the tunnel or you will be way crazy in the turns close to the tunnel. Anyway, in the end I burnt less fuel in the round trip.
Everyone is an expert here, so do what you feel happy with, for me the Walker Resonator is my favorite from prior experience. being cheap & tacky as I am. ;D
FWIW as usual.
Dave. Part number and source if you have them please. Thanks!
Tim, Surely, Here is the Walker manual for lots of items of interest including the resonator, clamps, elbows etc etc and more etc.l
Anyway the Resonator part number is 21835 It should be available at any truck supplier that handles Walker exhaust parts.
This manual is listed else where on the forum, but I am unable to locate it, so here is again
http://www.walkerheavyduty.com/catalog/docs/WHD08_Accessories.pdf (http://www.walkerheavyduty.com/catalog/docs/WHD08_Accessories.pdf)
Enjoy,
Dave M
To answer Wyatt's question-- I wanted to have a better flow of exhaust and heat away from the manifold and although I am not an engineer on the subject to me it seems most problems with engines usually has something to do with heat,so I wanted to lower it. I also figured any restrictive muffler would have a negative effect on that and power output. Hence-remove that and try and keep the noise down. The Cummins one I used has kept the sound down but HAS made it a touch louder but a NICE louder, sort of growl. Ruth did not notice any difference when I asked her, and she is an expert on noise !!! The bus has a new life as far as power and as yet I cannot give any mpg comparables out as I did not look at that point yet.
I kept all the old pieces in case this did not work out but they are going in the scrap soon.
John, when I questioned one of the Sr. Cummins Techs at FMCA last year about removing the muffler and installing a resonator, he told me that there was precious little back pressure from the muffler system used on my :U225 and in his opinion there would be no measurable gains in either temperature or horsepower by changing to an open exhaust system. I know that is contrary to what several other highly respected forum members have experienced but based on that conversation, I am guessing that sealing the CAC leaks may have more to do with your noticeably increased horse power. Just an opinion but one day I might see if a resonator would help my Detroit. You never know.
To expand on Kent's thought, there is a VAST difference in exhaust CFM between a Cummins B engine and an L or M engine.
I know the muffler on our Caterpillar 3116 (U240) is well oversized for the CFM requirements of our engine-- so little back pressure. But, if this same muffler were used on a large engine, it may be undersized.
Said another way, I doubt there is an across the board answer as to performance or MPG improvement, as back pressure is not the same on all applications.
Brett
Kent, you may be right to a degree, but I do know that even when there is almost no boost pressure the manifold temp' is a lot lower on the gauge I have and VMS so that has to be a big factor for me. I do actually believe removing it HAS made a difference to power out put, but can not prove it.
Less weight though to carry around!!!
The funny thing here is Kent has a 6V-92 Detroit, it being a 2 cycle has twice the air flow thru the engine as a 4 cycle. OK it is 552 CID, in 4 cycle world think 1104 CID for air flow thru the exhaust, Is there a light bulb getting bright some where.?
A free'r exhaust on a 2 cycle 6V-92 would be more effective than on a 4 cycle ISM, C, B, Cat, etc. using the 5 inch resonator.
Or have I stripped a gear some where?
Brett, what you said makes perfect sense regarding the throughput of the smaller engine.
John, that being the case fortifies your conclusion regarding improved breathing and horse power.
Now based on what Dave says, you know I'm going to have to look into making the exhaust change on my 6V92. Thanks a lot Dave. Of course the good thing is I can't do anything until I heal up. Considering the pain medication I'm on I will probably forget all of this by that time.
Good price on the Walker at Summit for 64 and change or through ebay (also Summit) at $74 free shipping.
I will either do it or the Stainless FTE 17" for 106.00. I like the FTE as its diameter is 5" throughout, giving less clearance issues and making it easier to wrap...
Just an opinion but one day I might see if a resonator would help my Detroit. You never know.
Kent, just add this to the list of things you want to talk Steve into doing for you. If you really lay it on you might be able to get him to pay for it.
Steve, please put this on my list. I may forget!!!
Kent, Most book learned folks do not understand the Detroit engine. The Detroit 2 cycle is a much harder engine to cool than a 4 cycle too. But with your engine being equal to a 1104 CID 4 cycle for air flow thru the intake and exhaust, gives an interesting view point. Why a resonator on your engine would be more effective than on my ISM, the ISM is much smaller in CID.
There is no rush to do anything to it, is has operated fine since new, so another couple months should not hurt it.
Cheers
You have gotten my interest but you're right, there is certainly no rush. I always want to reduce heat if possible so if for no other reason, if a resonator would reduce heat it would be worth while considering the low cost.
The only way to tell what is making a change in the performance of a given coach, is to have a before and after Dyno report after you make each change. ^.^d
Hi Bill, You are correct if you want the exact data, do not mind spending the Dyno and shop fees for the 2 or 3 pulls on the Dyno. For me, I can tell by the seat of my britches how it is doing, not the fuel burn, but I assume if it runs with more power, and I run it exactly the same speeds as before the change, it will burn less fuel. Weather is I get 9 or 8.5 mpg is not important to me. As long as it feels good compared with the earlier performance, I feel like it is an improvement and I do not care if I gain 35 or 50 hp, it does not matter as long as it feels good and frisky like it does now. I am sensitive to the running condition of the coach, how it responds to the throttle. With the ISM500 and the resonator is a major increase, feels like 100 hp, Do not need a Dyno to tell me, as it would cost about $500.00 per run, I do not need that.
I also assume the average owner here would notice the improvement, if they do not detect any improvement, they most likely already know they would not notice a change. So for them, save their money.
Big plus, love the exhaust tone
Right now I have no concerns about using my Jake Brake in sensitive areas. I doubt that I could do that with the resonator. Any thoughts???
What did you remove to add the resonator?
Kent,Yes the exhaust sound with the Jake will increase noise some, not tremendously, you wlould have to open yur side window to hear it. I used the Jake on the 8V-71, 12V-71 and the 8V-92, The Jake works better with highter engine rpm, get it up in the 2000+rpm, it works much better that 1600 rpm.
I had my 50 gallon drum / muffler ;D removed and replaced it with a Magnaflow http://www.magnaflow.com/ (http://www.magnaflow.com/) I can't tell you of any MPG increase, as I've just started tracking my mileage, but I can tell you that my spool-up time has been cut by at least half! No discernible difference in the exhaust note.
That is the exact point. Between wastegates and electronic controls, there is no change in power or torque peaks. Spoolup will be much faster. Driveability is vastly improved. Its the rate of change that is different.
Tim, I took out all the piping and muffler after the Turbo ( not quite correct- I left the 90 deg elbow from turbo in place and added 4" flex stainless to it then a 4-5" adapter and from there I used 5 " pipe with hangers and a 5-5" resonator then more pipe and the chrome outlet pipe from original. Made up a couple of hangers to keep it in line with the hole on back fibreglass panel. It has not moved. Clamps where all SSteel. Total cost was Res-$75, Flex pipe $60, clamps etc around$50.
John, can you post photo's in the photo section.
Steve, Be careful! I think Kent is beginning to use the Alzheimer ploy!! ( I know it works for me)
Norm, we stopped by Steve and Michelle's in Santa Fe so they could see me at my worst before heading to the hospital for the spinal surgery. I figured this would get maximum sympathy. So far, Steve's wised up but I'm sure if I really needed him he would be right there.
You can make some amazing friends on this forum.
Bill, I think I had already posted them but here goes. As you will see in them there is a large area left where the old Muffler sat. I re-used a 90 degree elbow from flex to an adapter I had made, to go from 4 to 5" to accomodate the Resonator which is just before the last chromed outlet thru the Body.
John,
From the photos, the only recommendation I have is to rotate the clamp in photo #3 at the end of the flex hose 90 degrees. This will put the hot metal further from the rubber of the intake system.
Brett
actually Brett there is about 5" between the clamp bolts and rubber piping and around 3 1/2" from pipe to pipe at closest place. It is just an ilusion on the photo, but thanks anyway (it made me go and check right now)
Great, John,
Hard to get rubber far enough from really hot metal.
I have seen Dyno test runs that overheat drive-axle tires, which I think is par for most tests. I think Dyno tests can shorten life of tires.
You know Brett, you have given me another idea on that heat issue on piping close to Rubber. I am going to look into getting some asbestos (or similar) tape and wrap the flex and pipe that is not too close to the rubber air filter feed just to make sure. I do not see any evidence of heat affecting the rubber pipe but !!!!
John, google header wrap.