Our toad and coach modifications for towing should be completed Tuesday morning here at FOT. So with about 200 miles of seat time driving the "new to us coach" over this last weekend I am looking for any good driving advice in regards to towing my Honda Fit.
Great question, Mark --
1. Follow the directions in the Fit manual for towing
2. When you are hooking up and a neighbor wants to start a conversation, politely tell them that you prefer not to be disturbed. This is one time you don't want to make a mistake.
3. If your wife is willing, do this as a team. It goes much faster and you should check on each others work.
4. When you get to your destination, if you have difficulty removing pins turn the steering wheel in the Honda until they slip out easily.
Don't back up!
oldMattB
Mark... I agree with George Stoltz, read the Honda manual carefully. And Mark's point is spot on!
Our '09 Honda CRV follows really well within the tracks of the coach wheels... we don't even know it's there.
With regard to hitching, we use the M&G braking system with a Roadmaster tow bar, and it takes George ("the other" - my better half) and I maybe 5 minutes to hook up.
1. He positions the coach to a level spot and lowers the tow bars to ground; he stands in front of the hitch with the bars at his feet.
2. I drive the Honda into position while George motions me forward then to stop.
3. I put on parking brake (motor still running) while George connects all cables and air line.
4. While George is connecting, I follow the CRV owner's manual:
(a) press on the brake pedal and move the shift lever through all its positions;
(b) shift to D position (from "2" - NEVER from "R") and hold for 5 seconds, then to N
(c) let the engine run for 3 minutes, then turn off the engine
(d) release the parking brake and leave the key in the Accessory position so the steering wheel doesn't lock;
(e) make sure the radio is off (and anything else is off) so as not to run down the battery.
5. By the time I've finished with the "inside routine," George is finished with the "outside routine." I do the "inside routine" with the "valet key" and then lock it manually with my regular key.
Hope this helps!
Thanks George - I will definitely enlist the wife for the extra attention. I like the advice about eliminating distractions too.
I was just chatting with a few folks at FOT and the 1st words of advice unanimously were "Don't back up!".
Anything special I need to know about turns? Dies the toad follow the rear track of the coach?
Patricia - thanks. The CRV and Fit routine are the same.
We have 2 keys with us (no valet) so can I leave one in the ignition after I go thru the prep process and then get out and lock the Fit with the other key using the fob?
Yes, you can leave one of your regular keys in the ignition/accessory position and lock the Fit MANUALLY with the other key (not the fob). If your Fit is like our CRV, the fob won't work with another key in the ignition. You'll have to insert the key and turn it counterclockwise to lock the Fit.
We have towed a Toyo Echo for nearly 70,000 miles. It follows nicely for any normal street maneuvers. Going into a shopping center or a fuel stop, it is easy to run it over a curb, if you aren't watching for it. We cannot turn sharp enough to hit the coach with the car.
oldMattB
When you are preparing to disconnect the toad, using pins, it is easiest if both vehicles are in a straight line (all wheels pointed in the same direction).
As a former military aviator, I like checklists. Using your towbar manufacturers instructions, Foretravels instructions, and your Fit manual, devise a checklist, and use it religiously. With your wife's help, one calls out the checklist item, and the other checks and responds. Then, when you pull away, your mind won't be wondering if something is amiss.
Mark, you can get a "chipless" key made at a good hardware store or key shop and leave that in the ignition. That way you don't have to worry about losing the extra key, plus you don't have to worry about someone stealing the car when the regular key is in it.
If no towing info in owner's manual, check online to make sure you don't have to stop every 200 miles or so to start engine/lube transmission.
As said above, don't back up.
Sorry for not continuing this conversation in a timely manner. We were enjoyably chatting with Bob and Debby and a few others here in camp FOT.
Patricia thanks for the locking info with the key. I was wonder how that worked.
oldMattB - thanks for that good info especially about sharp turns.
Fred, Steve & Ginny - straight lines and checklist - got it - thanks
PatC - I'll find a hardware store and get a "chipless" key made - that is a great idea for all the reasons you mentioned!
Pierce & Gaylie - got the manual and no reason to stop every 200 miles - reread the towing section just to verify.
As a final check I always try and remember to look in the mirror when I take the first sharp turn after departing to make sure the toads front and rear wheels are rolling smoothly.
Some folks put a yellow tennis ball at top dead center of the toad steering wheel. If they see (in the rear view camera) the ball move off TDC during a turn, then they are assured the wheel is unlocked.
When you make a right hand turn, make sure you pull out a little farther and watch the turn as you make the corner. Too sharp and you can drag the car across the curb or through a stop sign (for example).
We do the same. When we first start towing, I point the mirrors downward for a good look at the front wheels of the towed vehicle. I feel more comfortable if I see them turning and steering easily.
All other advice that has been presented fits with our experience.
I try to use the shadow of the towed vehicle to help see where the end of my "train" is located. That works well going north or south early or late in the day. Practice matching the placement of the shadows with the appearance of other vehicles in the mirrors. It may help you get a feel for vehicle positions during lane changes.
Bob, Dave and J.D. - all excellent advice which I will try and remember - it may take a few trips.
Really appreciate that so many folks replied so quickly! I'll be better prepared for my first trip tomorrow. Thanks all.
We are able to watch our tow vehicle in the rear camera. It really helps to feel comfortable when you are passing another vehicle. If you have ANY doubts after you start out, find a place to pull over and get out and check ... we do that after 3 years on the road!
Carol - I'm getting the idea about all this stuff - check, check and check again. Better safe than sorry especially when a very expensive or dangerous mistake can be made. Thanks for the reminder.
Don't forget, after you hook up and really any time you start out for the day without having unhooked, check the tail light operation on the toad.
Figure out some hand signals and have one of you stand behind the toad while the other operates the coach signals and brakes. Make sure they register on the toad. Anyone who's seen Steve and I hook up knows I look like I'm signaling aircraft back there, but it works for us.
And another vote for not letting anyone interrupt your hookup procedure. If someone does, start over, at least with checking what you've already done from the beginning. It might take you a few extra minutes but better safe than sorry.
Michelle
A couple of things to add to Pat's post above....
1. We have locks (Master brand, I think) on all our pins just to make sure nothing comes undone either from vibration or from someone wanting the toad.
2. I always take a final look at the setup before getting underway. It really is not that difficult to connect everything and a simple visual check as a last step has worked for us.
3. If you do have to back up, just disconnect. It only takes about 5 minutes. We have only had to do it once in two years.
4. I always check the Roadmaster (car side and coach side) over before using it and clean everything with CorrosionX. This not only keeps the wear down, but also forces me to check for cracks in the towing apparatus. I think Roadmaster recommends a complete check periodically.
5. We always check the Pressure Pro sensors on the toad just after getting underway to make sure the brakes were not left on. I assume the heat generated would show in the pressure readings. We also use the rear camera to check the toad for about 5 minutes after getting underway (then it is turned off).
6. If you have Pressure Pro sensors on the toad, you will probably need a repeater in the back of the coach. I posted on installing one earlier this year.
And just to reinforce what George said, I strongly recommend PressurePro senders for the toad wheels. If you have a flat on the toad, you will not know it until some car or truck points out the smoke or fire behind you!
One bit of advice I was given when turning a corner with a toad -
While you're sitting in your drivers seat, don't start your turn until your hip has cleared the curb, tree, post or anything else that you don't want to hit! My RV & toad always cleared if I remembered to follow that advice :) I forgot about it once and paid the price :-[
"Check Lists" - never leave home without at least one for pre-flight/departure. They greatly decrease the odds of significant regret.
Reinforcement on two points. I had not wanted to spend the money for the extra tire pressure sensors for our towed. Last December while heading south for the winter we ran over some road debris. I was able to straddle it with the coach wheels but unknowingly not with our Towed. It blew out both front tires. Two weeks and $3,500 later the front wheels, tires and body of the car was repaired and we were back on our winter sojourn. Tire Pressure Sensors on the towed are worth every penny.
Secondly, use that backup camera when you first take off. Check lists are important but people make mistakes. If you have inadvertently left the steering wheel locked, E Brake on or worse left the towed in gear, you should see some indication that something is wrong with the towed very quickly.
One of the easiest ways to have towed problems is when you have not unhooked the towed for an overnight stay. This takes you out of your normal hookup routine and it is very easy to think everything is ready to go the next morning but you forgot one little thing that creates big problems. Always double check under these circumstances.
Mark and Mary, nice meeting you briefly last evening. Saw this morning FOT is hooking up your system so will try to catch you before you head out.
One other point I have not seen mentioned is I never turn off our back up camera. If changing lanes it gives me an "extra" mirror as our is wide angle. Seems to catch a dead spot on occasion. Those "smart for 2" cars sure seem to sneak in on you. You will find towing very easy. Lots of great suggestions here. And always someone in a hurry that after you pass a semi and leave enough room before moving over they will try to pass you on the right without signals or more than 2 feet of room....
Have fun....
I saw several posts here indicating that when towing a toad "DONT BACK UP".
I do not agree with this because I back up.
You must understand some things about backing up.
The front tires have a tendancy (especially on gravel or rough ground) to turn hard left or right and stay there (scweeeeling like a stuck pig). If that happens, pull ahead until they go straight and back up again.
The back of the toad is 50 or more feet from the coach driver, so use a spotter, particularly at night.
A sharp turn cannot be done while backing because wheels will turn sharp, however, it is possible to make shallow turns.
Before being forced to back up, go to a large empty parking lot and practice, I believe you will be amazed at how easy it is to do.
I meet a guy once who had a converted bus towing a Grand cherokee. He said "if I need to back up I just back up". I asked him if his front tires ever went full lock. His reply was "Oh, so, that is why a front tire pealed off the rim once.
Watch those front tires!
Wyatt, I too back up with the towed/toad attached but I sure wouldn't recommend it someone just starting out. It takes lots of cool and concentration and feel that comes with experience and time. So although I have a high regard for your opinion I agree with you in principal but disagree with you on the timing on this one.
Lots of good advise already given. Here is my $.02.
I like to hook up on a slight uphill. Once everything is connected Dori just let's the car roll back while I watch the lock-levers on the Roadmaster to be sure both arms click into place. You can also do this using reverse. Our Xterra is a manual transmission so it's easier using gravity than reverse.
We tie a white bandana to the top of the steering wheel instead of using a tennis ball. You can see it in the rear view camera and watch that it's moving when you make sharp corners. We always do a quick zig-zag back an forth with Dori walking next to the car watching that the steering wheel is following the zig-zags.
We always do a double check of each others work. Dori checks the connections on the Roadmaster and I check the parking brake is off, the bandanna is on the steering wheel, the key is in the ignition unlocked and that I can turn the steering wheel. We then do a turn signal, brake light and hazard signal check.
I to backup on occasion but I try to avoid it. I have Dori spot me and yes the front wheels will turn on ya especially in gravel so be careful!
see ya
ken
Thanks Michelle - we have hand signaling procedures after years of trailer towing - not conventional but are now considering using the walki-talkies we have brought along.
George - I thought about locks last night and it turns out our roadmaster set came with 2 locks. CorrosionX is my friend too and will use as directed.
For all those who advised of tire pressure monitoring - I purchased Tire Traker before I left home and will install tomorrow before we head out.
Thanks everyone again - I need to pay the piper now and then take this for a test drive!
The beauty of of all the advice is that your learning from others experience, once you screw up a few times, you will be an expert also, so laugh and join the crowd. ;D
Here is a few things I do also. Before I hook up the toad I turn on the coach flashers so I can check the lights. I have also heard you can use one of those ladies hair clips on the steering wheel to see the movement on the camera. You know the ones that look like a claw.
Regards, Mark
Mark, I think you will be shocked at how easy this all becomes after a few hours on the road. I'm sure everything will be fine.
We hope to meet you on the road one of these days. You noticed I didn't say "run into each other" on the road one of these days.
I saw Mark & Mary when they came back to the parking lot after their test drive. I can attest to the fact that their towed had all four tires and there was no apparent damage to it or the motor home. Looks like they are at least as safe as the rest of us!!
He got so much advice that I'm surprised he didn't total the towed out on the test run.
My Grandsons stock remark whenever I try to explain something to him is " Granpa, TMI", took my old Gray head a while to figure out that that was " To Much Information".
Gary B
Kent and Gary - you are so right about all the info - my head was swimming in all this for the first few minutes but I finally calmed down enough to enjoy the ride. Lucky for the others on the road that I started actually paying attention to driving instead of the towed! :P
As Carol reported we returned no worse for wear - thanks to all for all the great ideas and sage advice.
Never stand between the coach and the car when the car is moving up to the coach!
OK, here goes. We tow an old 1996 Geo Tracker with 106,000 miles on it (got it cheap--to tow behind our gas powered class C) It weighs 1600#, is a five speed manual shift, two wheel drive. Our tow bar is an older Blue Ox, strong enough to pull a tank, with the old sliding lock collars. We don't care about the age of the Geo or the Tow bar as they work fine for what we bought them for and aren't worn out yet. (plus our stockbroker was dieing of cancer while the stock market tanked didn't help!!)
My concern here is some advice given to us yesterday from a neighbor who is/was in the tire business. He looked at our front tires and said we should rotate them before each 3,000 to 4,000 mile trip in order to reduce the flat spots created by having to back up and just because of towing. In other words, put them on the back. We have 5/32 tread left.
Anybody heard this before?? Concur??
Nitehawk,
Two issues here:
1. DO you back up your coach with the toad back there? That is a big no-no with virtually all two bars and is a good way to scrub the toad's front tires and put huge loads on its front suspension.
2. Yes, rotating tires frequently reduces uneven wear. As to whether those current front tires are serviceable on the back-- your tire dealer would be a better judge of that.
Brett
Nitehawk, To echo Brett....no no no no on backing a toad, tow bars not made for that kind of stress. As far as rotating tires, that's a good idea and can't hurt. You might want to visit a good alignment shop and show them the height difference between the toad bumper and hitch ball, should be level but if off some the coach can be trying to pick up the front end of the toad causing tire wear. Some of this can be corrected with alignment. I had an old Acura that had to have the alignment adjusted as tires were wearing.
Good luck
Gary B
No matter what the tire dealer says, that thumping from a flat spot would drive me nuts. Can't stand that kind of constant thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump!! We have a guy who goes by the stick house regularly, and I hear him coming from better than a quarter mile away and then hear him going. Every day, day after day. Ready to buy him a new set of tires.
And like Brett said - backing up is a big no-no. I know, lots of people do it and claim it is perfectly safe, but it will catch up with you one day! And then that Blue Ox will not be strong enough to pull you lawn tractor. This is what Blue Ox engineering team leader says on the subject:
"Backing Up a Towed Vehicle
By Mark Penlerick
Engineering Team Leader
Blue Ox Towing Products
Recently I read a letter to the editor in a magazine pertaining to how an RV couple back up their towed vehicle by having one person steer the towed vehicle while the other backs up the motorhome. I feel a word of caution is in order here. Last summer we tried backing up several towed vehicles with a motorhome. While the motorhome backed up, I was in the towed vehicle steering it. The front tires suddenly whipped off to one side and the steering wheel violently spun out of control. It happened so fast my arms crossed up and hit each other and I was lucky I didn't break my thumb or arm. I would not recommend anyone try to "steer" the towed vehicle while backing. We did however have limited success backing in a straight line using our tow bar. The problem is that inevitably all vehicles we tried had the same thing happen to the front tires all at different intervals. We also tried other manufacturers tow bars with the exact same result.
The reason this happens is not the tow bar but rather the caster angle in the front end of the towed vehicle. Caster is the forward tilt of the steering axis versus vertical. It provides steering stability, steering returnability and cornering ease. In reverse, the caster angle makes the wheels want to turn around the other direction like "casters" on your office chair or shopping cart. We all know they can't turn all the way around on a car, but they will turn off to the side as far as the steering mechanism will let them. This is virtually undetectable from the driver's seat in the motorhome making this a very scary situation. If you continue to back up, after the wheels have turned, the tires "scrub" or slide sideways causing damage to the tires. Other things caused by this are; severe stress to the steering components, suspension and towing system components.
Another good example of caster at work is a bicycle. Nearly everyone in their younger days has ridden a bike down the street without holding onto the handlebars, but how many have done it going backwards? None with any success I would expect as the front tire tries to turn around the other direction causing...well...a crash. To be on the safe side, heed the warnings; don't back up with any tow bar."