Foretravel Owners' Forum

It looks like I'm going to be driving over to the Puget Sound area to pick up our U225 and then bringing it back over Snoqualmie Pass (3,000 feet). Of course, this is the first winter storm warning for the season although they are only expecting up to about 3-inches (because it's the first one they are issuing warnings for conditions they'd never worry about later on). Yay!

My wife, the bus driver, will probably not be able to make the trip so I'll be on my own for the 200 miles or so. Only about 50 in the mountains on I-90.

So... my question is: How well do these coaches handle on snow? I plan to take it easy and not worry about speed. There is a lot of new construction in the area with reduced speed limits of 50mph anyway. My wife thinks that with the engine in the rear it should handle fine.

What do you guys think?

A good rule to remember, which end is the heavy end ?  When you are stopping and road is slick, the heavy end tries to go to the front, with a rear engine, that is the heavy end, and if you have a toad, it gets the bad end of the deal too, like whip-lash  :o

Been through that pass many a time. If you can wait till it is not snowing, they clean it up pretty quick. Check regarding chain requirements during snowstorms, can't remember regarding rv's may effect your plans.

Take it slow and you should be fine

Our experience with a couple of DP coaches has suggested: avoid snow, don't do ice, don't go faster than heavy trucks on a long downhill grade.

We have decided that if chains are required, we don't need to go. If chains are not required and roads are open, we are probably OK. We keep plenty of diesel fuel, plenty of propane, and plenty of water on board. If conditions are bad, we can stop and relax in comfort.

Wife was frightened when she found during her turn driving that she had to descend from Lookout Pass going from Idaho to Montana. Conditions included snow and slush on the road, but no ice. The speed limit for heavy trucks was 25 mph. My instructions were, "Stay in the right lane and stay behind that big truck." It was an easy descent using those guidelines. She wanted to thank the truck driver for guidance at the bottom of the hill, but he hauled cargo faster than we wanted to drive as soon as the road leveled out.

wa_desert_rat. Please give very serious consideration to avoiding ice and snow on the highway when driving a diesel pusher motorhome. I have done it driving a '94 U 240 and in a 99 U 320. I do not want to do it ever again. It can get frightening. The coach probably could handle the weather conditions but it is an entirely different game than driving a vehicle with a front engine. As far as chains are concerned, forget it. Can you imagine how much it would cost if one broke, or just got loose. Unless it is a life threatening emergency, wait out the weather.

Ok... well I'm convinced. Not that I was planning to highball it over the pass anyway, but since I learned to fly in a taidragger (Taylorcraft BC12D) I have a healthy respect for anything that is heavier in back than it is in front.

Weather reports look like the snow will be mostly at night (snow levels down to 3,000 feet which is the elevation of the Pass itself) so I'll watch the Internet and go across after noon and before 4pm. There are only about 60 miles of really mountain driving anyway.

Thankfully we have some amazing coverage of pass conditions including a dozen cameras that are accessible over the Internet. I'm equipped with an iPhone that can access the Internet, too.

Just a few years ago we wouldn't know what the Pass looked like until we got there; and by then it would be too late.

Anyway, if I have to I can always go down to Portland and drive along the Columbia River highway (which has its own issues with icing but probably not this time of year). I'll have to get used to driving in snow, however, since we will be doing a fair bit of cross-country skiing from BettyBoop.

Thanks for the information!
Craig

Being Washingtonians ourselves, we had this same issue last year, and researched the WSDOT requirements. You're going to have to find chains for your duallies. After November 1st, Just HAVING chains in a 10,000 Lb GVW vehicle is required when using the passes, even if you don't need them.
    Here's the web page: http://www.wsp.wa.gov/traveler/docs/cvd/chain_reqs.pdf (http://www.wsp.wa.gov/traveler/docs/cvd/chain_reqs.pdf)

  If you have a WSP center nearby, you can stop by and get a brochure for free.
      Hope this is helpful,
        Steve & Nikki

Personally I don't believe there is enough clearance to install chains on my coach even if they were the cable type.  Your coach may be different.  I got into some slushy spring time snow on Donner Pass once in a front engine rental RV.  We were heavy enough to cut through the slush but cars were sliding around.  Luckily none of them hit us. 

Steve & Nikki... what type of chains do you carry? Cables? Looks like about $100 for a pair (at least on the Internet). I'd forgotten about that requirement to just have them on board whether chains are required or not. Yikes!

Craig

I would not attempt to mount a chain on our U295. There is insufficient clearance with respect to air bags and wheel wells. I would expect the same issues might be true for a GV.

I doubt that WA authorities have resources to check for chains in a vehicle unless there is a problem, i.e., someone doesn't successfully complete a passage. Prudent operation dictates that you will avoid exposing yourself to the hazards.

Does it say they have to fit?

LOL... ya... it's all on line and filled with words like "adequate", "suited", etc. I'm thinking that the original owner might have some and I'll ask him. No use buying them here as they'll be cheaper in the Puget Sound region anyway. I will need them for x/c skiing regardless unless we don't go farther up than Ellensburg or Cle Elum.

Not sure where to buy them... on-line it's easy. Otherwise truck stops, etc. will be spendy. I'll wait 'til I get over there. May have to camp for a day or two anyway.

Having just replaced an airbag, I would not try to install chains. My tires occasionally rub the top of the wheel wells as is and the clearance to the bags is minimal. They would hit even without a problem and with a loose chain, a lot of damage would be done. And if a link broke...

If the snow is sticking, it's time to pull over and wait for the plow. If you start to lose the rear end coming downhill, you will never catch it.

Actually, I haven't got a set yet. We normally go from Midland ( near Tacoma ) to the Tri-Cities for Christmas, then to Spokane to visit the Grandkids and back. There really is no way to go without crossing the Cascades. The trip to Portland and along the river is a very, very long way around. Thankfully, last year, we had the family come to this side, so I didn't seek the chains. Online, there are some good bargains to be found on the Trucker sites. Not so if you go to a brick & mortar.
  Dave, I thought about just getting some cheapies that may not be the size needed, just because I can't see the WSP or DOT really checking every vehicle for chains if there aren't hazardous conditions. Probably a good bet, but I don't want to test my luck. Lol.
  Desert_Rats, We have an Oshkosh frame GV, so I don't know how that would compare with a Unihome as far as clearance in the wheelwells, but having been a longtime Porsche driver, the rear-engine issues are something I've learned to deal with in slippery conditions...but then again, I've never driven a 36' 911    ;D  This winter might be different. Guess I need to check out those trucker sites and do what's right for my Grand Villa.

My 356A was sold some time in my youth... although I've often regretted selling it. In the 60s you could buy them for under $2k. So I'm familiar with rear-engine beasts (and tail-wheel airplanes). I'd like to get a set of cable chains that fits but I'll have to wait until I can get a close look at the GV to see whether it's safe to put them on.

The WSP site says that if chains of any kind cannot be fitted then just going with what the factory recommends is acceptable to the WSP. Maybe all we need is a letter from FT.

Craig

I bought chains for a 37' Fleetwood DP. I bought them on line and was satisfied with the buying experience. Fortunately, I never used them.

I fitted the the chains to our tires on the concrete pad in front of our garage. That coach had hydraulic jacks that would lift a set of duals off the ground. With the wheels off the ground in pleasant weather, it was difficult (a bitch!) to get the chains on and off. I watched several videos showing how to do it. I would not even attempt to put chains on a Foretravel because of clearance issues.

We bought the Foretravel because it has enough quality and capacity that we can hunker and wait for roads to clear.

On our way south in a week or so and usually go down 84 thru Meachem Mt and  La Grande and that long climb goes up over 4400ft and some snow each year but have never had to put chains on although all the trucks did, so was hoping the Wash' State Patrol did not catch me as they are the meanest ones around in my estimation. They just love giving tickets. This year I have to go down I5 thru southern Oregon so that means a long climb over the Siskiyou Pass between Calif and Oregon. This one is a duzzi in winter so again hope all is well. I would not even bother to try and put chains on the bus if they would go on (clearance issues) so I gather it will be a wait for the weather to change if that happens
John

I have driven in the snow way too much. The FT does great but turn off the retarder and gear way way down. I did almost 200 miles in 2nd and 3rd gear.  I was driving home in March and on I 68 in WV and MD hit the snow and could not get off the road as they had all iced up on the off ramps and you could not make the turns.  So I just stayed and drove very very slowly.  Got home and backed into the drive in 8 inches of the stuff.  the FT did great but it had a 2 inch sheet of ice on the front end.  I do not want to repeat it but it can be done.  I also was going to St Louis for Thanksgiving one year. I hit snow in IN and sat in the Flying J parking lot for 2 full days till it melted. It was the easier decision...

John, You bring  up some memories, like last Dec when bringing my fresh paint job home, right in front of the Mercedes Benz plant just south of Bessemer ALon I-20/I-59, the black ice thing took over, cars, trucks off road, upside down, on guard rails, down over banks, in general a mess. I was lucky to catch on quick enough to keep it under control and creeped up to the Flying J at McCalla exit 104, sat 24 hr, all was clear and dry, so north bound again.  Still clear memory, no ding up the new paint.

Yes... more than once I've been saved by someone on the other side of the freeway going 'round and 'round on the ice. A clear clue to slow down!!!

Since it's clear that chains can't be fitted I'll just use that in the unlikely event that someone says anything. If I get a citation I'll try to get the factory to write a letter. :D

Craig

I don't know how many miles of bad road I drove from 1970 until 2005. Put in 3 and 1/2 million total. I live in the south and don't drive the trucks anymore... I still run a trucking company and my people have strict instruction from me to NOT drive on slick roads... Of course we all can get caught in situations as Dave did.... being in between places to safely get off after bad weather begins... We can be the safest of drivers in any condition but that doesn't keep the idiots who aren't from plowing into us head on or otherwise... we are still at fault just for being there. I tell my drivers that is what that compartment that is located just behind the passenger seats is for.... Leave it to me to call customers and advise them their freight will be delivered when safe passage returns... For nearly 40 years I had good luck... blessings from above and maby some decent driving.... I don't intend to push any of the above any further..... Lucky anymore if the idiots that travel among us don't kill us on a dry sunny road these day's.

Having said all that... I understand that some of our members are snow ski fans and I understand your hobby obviously requires you to drive in snow country for your outings..... see I got smarts real good.... be safe and enjoy.... I'm sure there are those that think folks such as I are over cautious... There may be some truth to that..... I spent my youth and most of my adult life battling these highways crowded with morons and adverse conditions.... Now I'm a fair weather.. daylight.. see a mile down the road kind of cat...

We are snow ski fans but not the "ski fast downhill and pay a fortune for the lift tickets" type. We don't have to go all the way up the mountain for our skiing... we can ski anywhere there's 5 or 6 inches of snow; but it's better if the trail is groomed up nicely and there are other folks around. And it's way cheaper!

I was a ski instructor when I met my wife and once we were a couple I discovered that she did not - for some reason - find sleeping in a down bag on a friend's balcony in January to be fun. Not only did *I* think it was fun, I thought it was even more fun when she was in my sleeping bag with me. But I will never understand women...

So I not only had to pay for lift tickets for her but also a room for two nights... and breakfast, lunch and dinner at the overpriced cafeteria. And rental gear til the ski shop manager decided that having my girlfriend ski on their equipment (with me) was almost as good as me skiing on it and let her ski for free. So we discovered cross-country skiing the next season at Jackson Hole, WY and our first trip was into Yellowstone.

Our kids x/c ski and so will our grandkids this season. And since they will take their new spiffy trailer with slid-outs up to the x/c trails so will we take our GV. I just hope I can get used to it. Of course, my wife - the bus driver - will probably drive anyway. :)

Craig

"I'm sure there are those that think folks such as I are over cautious... There may be some truth to that..... I spent my youth and most of my adult life battling these highways crowded with morons and adverse conditions.... Now I'm a fair weather.. daylight.. see a mile down the road kind of cat..." There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots. I've never been bold, and now I'm getting old...

NO, not over cautious but sometimes you can not control the situation. I will sit still if I can when the weather turns.  I will drive it I have to as far as I have to get get off the road safely.  In the mountains there is not many places that you can go so you drive. 

We are sissies.  Not only do we not drive in snow, ice, wind over 35mph, we try not to drive at night, in rain, rush hour traffic and a few others.  If we have to be somewhere on a certain date we leave a few days extras for problems.  We can always find something interesting to see in small town America. Seems every town has a historical museum, which we find fascinating.

Amen! Last week we drove until 9 pm to get home. I was uncomfortable as heck and with the HID conversion I've got plenty of forward lumens. Can't hardly see the the lane markers on the sides though. Even though it was freeway I had driven for 15 years, moderate traffic I was nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs!

My 10 cents worth:  Drive within both your own and the vehicles capabilities.  If you are unsure of either don't go.  I don't mind driving in bad conditions but I won't drive my coach in snow or ice around Chicago as I don't want all that salt and calcium chloride on the chassis.  I know what that can do to vehicles and that scares me!

Keith