Hi all,
I have posted about this before, but I have a bit more info on it now, as well as a picture and a video. First, although fairly experienced mechanically as far as gas engines go (worked briefly in a VW shop way back in the 70's, always have done my own repairs and maintenance on a variety of motorcycles and cars, grew up around the stuff, etc.), I am pretty ignorant about diesels in general and Foretravels in particular! But getting less so as I go from project to project on this 99' U270, so please bear with me as I am likely to sound silly to you Motorheads versed in all things Foretravel (among whom I hope to include myself when I graduate from my online "apprenticeship" through the collected wisdom of the oh so knowledgeble members of this amazing forum!).
Anyway, based on some comments when I previously asked a question about this fuel leak problem, I am thinking that the most likely culprit is the lift pump. Now, admittedly I haven't the first clue where it is and what it looks like, I did see what seems to be the source of the leak (at least, it is the highest elevation which was dripping). The leak varied from quite a lot at first to much less after it was idling for a bit and eventually stopped after I shut down the engine. I am attaching a pic of the device taken from the side with my arms fully extended trying to aim my iPhone. I also took a video from below and posted it on Youtube. I will post the URL to the YouTube video... It is quite short and I speeded up some to make the action more exciting! This device is locate on the curbside of the engine right about where the engine stops and the tranny begins, about a foot or so below the top of the valve cover. What say you, is this the lift pump? Is the only remedy likely to be installing a new one?
Thanks!
Foretravel U270 Fuel Leak - YouTube (http://youtu.be/JcYk0ah6vII?hd=1)
Don
Don - the forum should handle (auto-embed) the base YouTube URL just fine - no need for the embed code. Try copy-paste on the video's URL and see if that's all you need to do (otherwise, Steve and I are here waiting to see if y'all need technical assistance ;) )
Michelle
Thanks Michelle! That is what I did after trying several different options, and then just gave up and posted the URL, then Voilà! Just my usual overthinking!
Don
That is the lift pump and depending if it is coming from the pump or a line would determine the exact course of action, should not be hard to replace the pump
Don,
That's the lift pump, and leaking is not unusual on rigs our age, since the new ULSD is apparently not friendly to the older seal formulation. I had ours replaced at Cummins about a year ago.
Thanks,
So lift pump it is... I seem to remember that I saw that being replaced by the PO somewhere in the paperwork. How recent is the widespread use of ULSD? I wonder if the lift pump was replaced after it was in effect. I will have to go though those receipts again. Been meaning to make a spreadsheet for all of the repairs and maintenence.
I will check the connections etc., and assuming they all check out, time to shop around for a replacement pump.
Don
ULSD is pretty much everywhere and it is a small seal that costs less than a buck that the lack of sulfur causes to dry out. It was an issue a few years ago and we had a rash of people reporting on the forum a leaking lift pump.
All engines built after 1/1/07 required ULSD, so it was phased in during 2006.
Hmm... so is this seal replaceable? A buck sounds sooo much better than $300+! Do you have any links or part numbers, or better yet, a PDF illustrated parts breakdown for these pumps?
Thanks, Don
Don,
I have a 99 U270 also and had mine replaced at cummins about a year ago for around $600.00. I am very mechanical also but because of the location and the pump being an electric one and all. I just let them do it. It was well worth the labor cost for me. Merry Christmas.
Mark
Don,when the seal fails it has been known to leak into the pump motor and drip fuel out the electrical connection, do yourself a favor and replace the pump.
That does sound ominous... I suppose it could lead to pump failure on the road and that would not be good! I will start looking for a source for the part once I verify all the connections are tight...
Don
I gather by the remarks on ULSD and seal breakdown I should be ok as this coach for the last 3 yrs has had a fair bit of non-ULSD from mexico go thru the system, so all should be well lubricated. The diesels down here seem to run great and have to take a lot of beating too.
John
Does a U320/M11 use a lift pump?
John,
No, there is no lift pump on the M11.
acousticart
I just got a quote from a Cummins shop to replace my dripping feed pump on my 1999 U295 with the 350 ISC engine. The price for the pump was not bad, about $ 350.00 but the estimate for labor, after they looked it over and said it was easy to get to, was around 6 hours. Shop charges can run from $90.00 to $113.00 per hour at this shop. They said it probably would not take that long but I am hesitant to give the go ahead with that much leeway in labor.
I hope you do better.
Donald,
That does seem like a long time for a Cummins shop to do a job they must see pretty regularly. We have a receipt from the PO for around $700 for the lift pump replacement in 2006. Unfortunately, it must have been old stock without the newer seals needed for the ULSD fuel that came out around then and ours needs to be replaced again. I plan on doing it myself while I have the coach raised up to do the bulkhead repairs. I will update this thread when I do it... Not looking forward to it, but to save more than $300 in labor, I am willing to take it on!
Don
Don
You should have very little problem doing the lift pump with the coach raised a little. I come from an old line of mechanics and loved that kind of work but age and too many good meals settled around the waist prevents me from doing it myself. LOL
I wish you luck and am looking forward to your update.
Just had my lift pump replaced at SE Power in Tampa (Cummins dealer). Parts AND labor was a little over $400.
I could be mistaken, but the lift pump in the 99's (electronic ISC's), is altogether a different part and even in a different place. If Cummins would replace ours for that, I would be very inclined to take them up on it!
Don
The 96 had a mechanical pump that would not be to bad to replace and am sure much cheaper for the part. I don't think that the electric pump should be to difficult to change
Don, I did mine a couple of years ago (ISC 350) took about 2 hours. It's not a high tech job just hard to get at, I did mine from the top, 3 mounting bolts 1 plug in electrical connector, and the fuel lines all very tight. Once you get the new pump you can see where the mounting bolts are makes removing the old one easier while standing on your head under the bed. I used a cummins pump, there are some others out there, but I'm leary of will fit parts.
You find all Cummins dealers are not equal in many respects. If their email address does not show name@cummins.com you are not dealing with a factory shop, not trained nor supported shop.
Just because they say they are a Cummins shop means zero to me other than they know where to get parts, they will not have the Cummins Quick Serve on Line (QSOL) that all Cummins shops have. Also can they do Cummins warranty work ? A easy check to see.
FWIW
Dave M
Thanks! That is encouraging... Do you remember how much you paid for the part?
Don
For those not aware (and who may be facing some Cummins repairs), there is a owner's discount club you can join Home Page || Cummins Power Club - The Power To Keep You Moving (http://www.cumminspowerclub.com/) that gets you 10% off parts and service from a Cummins dealer. I don't recall how much it cost per year, but it might be worth looking into before a largish parts/service expense.
Michelle
ETA it's $19.95/year US, $22.95/year Canadian
Cummins Power Club annual membership is $19.95, and yes, I am a member in good standing...
Peter
I don't Don, as I remember it was rather pricey $2-300 bucks, got it from the Cummings dealer. You will need your engine serial number from the plate on your engine. there are some rebuild kits but as mine was the OEM I elected to replace it. It was doing the same thing, dripping from the bottom at the electrical connector.
Mine recently started leaking. Had it replaced today by my local mechanic. I don't know his cost yet, but St Louis Cummins had previously quoted $288.60 to me.
Mike
2003 U295
That is good info Michelle, also if/when uyou have an issue with your Cummins, you want one of the shops listed on that club roster as they are the real shops that can correctly handle your issues, not a dealer/wannabee shop. I Hear all kinds of horror stories where folks get way over charged and/or charged a lot and not fix the issue. Why I keep harping on this. How about $700.00 for a $295.00 fuel pump plus $500.00 to install on a U295 for exsample...
FWIW
Dave M