Picking up my coach from shop Monday. New PRXB Pac brake and replace Bendix cruise with new Cruise Control King replacement unit. The new cruise control caused all kinds of problems as the tech could not get it to operate properly after installing . All kinds of hours spent troubleshooting it and it turned out that the CCK printed circuit board was dead. And then took forever to get a new board from them, or that is what I was told! Had the Cummins 5.9 "Killer Dowel Pin Fix" done.
Killer Dowel Pin And The Fix - Diesel Bombers (http://www.dieselbombers.com/dodge-diesel-tech-articles/4498-killer-dowel-pin-fix.html) It may have never came loose, or it may have fell through to the bottom, but then again it could have came loose and busted everything next week - who knows!! Also had the coach height raised up about a inch to proper height, with a number of shims left over on all corners.. And had the bulkhead bolts (Roloks) all checked and found nothing loose! Few minor other things done too. Haven't seen the bill break down yet, but do know the total. Over $2000, which did not include cost of the PRBX exhaust brake and Cruise Control King unit!!! I think much of the labor was caused by the Cruise Control King defective circuit board. Am not very happy about that. You would think that they would check them out before shipping. Will up date Monday when I get her home. Then we can start packing for our Florida trip.
It may have never came loose, or it may have fell through to the bottom, but then again it could have came loose and busted everything next week - who knows!! "
Pat,
Unfortunately for us, that is exactly what happened in our C8.3 Cummins. Oil pressure went to zero, shut the engine down immediately. We had a 50 cent-size hole in the bottom of our gear cover where a dowel pin was shot through it by the gears. Fortunately, the gears weren't damaged, but while inside the engine, Cummins put in new rod bearings and a new lube pump (had a slight nick in it). Total cost was over $3,000. They said it was a "fluke", but I have heard of it happening in other diesels.. Didn't know that it could happen in the 5.9.
Yes, the Killer Dowel Pin is a known issue with 5.9's. Inexpensive fixes are available. Also, the 53 Block issue is a know problem with mechanical 5.9's, with a class action settlement being implemented now.
If this is a common failure it could be grounds for a recall.
Craig
It may have never came loose, or it may have fell through to the bottom, but then again it could have came loose and busted everything next week - who knows!! "
Pat,
Unfortunately for us, that is exactly what happened in our C8.3 Cummins. Oil pressure went to zero, shut the engine down immediately. We had a 50 cent-size hole in the bottom of our gear cover where a dowel pin was shot through it by the gears. Fortunately, the gears weren't damaged, but while inside the engine, Cummins put in new rod bearings and a new lube pump (had a slight nick in it). Total cost was over $3,000. They said it was a "fluke", but I have heard of it happening in other diesels.. Didn't know that it could happen in the 5.9.
1989-1998 1/2 for the 5.9.
Is this an issue for the ISC's also?
I don't
think so. But then I had never heard of it happening on anything other than the '69 to '98 5.9's, so to hear of it happening on a 8.3 was a surprise. The pin is to properly align the timing chain housing to the block. Just pressed in and it shouldn't go anywhere. But many have and when they do it is kind of like playing a pin ball machine as to whether it can fall all the way to the pan without doing any damage along the way. The first mechanic I asked about it said "Oh, its not going anywhere", but this new mechanic I found says "its cheap to make sure that it doesn't go anywhere, they even build a kit to make sure it stays put".
As per Cummins Tech info, the "C" Series does not have the same issue as the "B" Series for the pin to drop out and cause issues.
Hope this helps someone.
Cheers
Dave,
Is the C8.3 mechanical included in the "C series"? Or is the above just for the ISC?
Don,
Yes, all 8.3 liter Cummins, including yours are C's. And, as Dave said, the killer dowel pin did not apply to any of the C's.
That clearly can happen, as you experienced, but it not a wide-spread issue as it is with the B (5.9 liter) engine as found in the Foretravel U225 (only).
As suggested, the fix is not complex or expensive and is very good insurance.
Never having a B engine, I have not worked on this issue, but google turned up these:
Killer Dowel Pin And The Fix - Diesel Bombers (http://www.dieselbombers.com/dodge-diesel-tech-articles/4498-killer-dowel-pin-fix.html)
Dowel Pin Repair Kit for 94-98 (http://www.tstproducts.com/dowelpinrepairkitfor94-98.aspx)
Brett
Well, someone at Cummins is blowing smoke! I was told by the Irving, Texas Cummins Mechanics that they had seen this in other 8.3's "on occasion"; not frequently, but had seen it before.
Don, Sure appears as there is some smoke indeed, My source is Cummins Atlantic in Richmond, Va. Now the question seems to be what are the facts ?
I have a 1998 5.9 B Series in a Freightliner, has a heavy crane mounted, works great for placing generators, Per Cummins and the engine number, no history as to the killer pin. Now to find the truth !!
Dave,
The Killer Dowel Pin applies to only 12 valve 5.9's. The changeover to 24 valves was in 1998.
But the 12 valve 5.9 ran until '98 and 1/2.
So am I correct to presume that this issue does not apply to the Cummins C8.3 in our 1997 U270?
Thank you.
Have never heard of it being on anything but a Cummins 6BT 5.9 until this thread. You'll have to talk to Don 's source to find out about the possibility of it being a problem in the c8.3
Same here-- was not aware this was anything but a B issue.
I dug out my log book and read my notes. Gear Cover (housing) was blown out, but apparently NOT by a dowel pin. Here's what they told me: "The bottom bolt in the gear housing broke"; dropped to the bottom and was picked up by gears and driven through the housing. So rather than a "dowel pin" issue, it was a broken bolt. Same result, different cause.
Sorry for the confusion.
I have a 94/U225. Before I even purchased it I was aware of the KDP issue with 94-98 12V_B_5.9 Dodge Cummins. This was something I was planing to take care right away. Today i spoke with Cummins Southern Plains & they told me that the issue was never for the mid range 12V_B_5.9 but with the light weight 12V_B_5.9's on the "Dodge" engines. They said they had sold the same engine to Ford and issue was also not on the Cummins engines installed on the Ford.'s They told me that they don't have any knowledge that mid range engines that was installed on motor homes with this issue. However they asked me to give them my 8 digit engine serial number and they will check it one more time to make sure again. I need to get the serial number to them ... I looked and apparently it is on a plate somewhere near the timing gear / Injection pump. I could not see it when i kind a try to find it last week. I am going to look hard tomorrow. Do we have any members on the forum that actuality had this issue on their engine? I mean actuality it came out and done some damage? I also asked what would be the worst shop fee will be if it come out & did the worst damage it could do. I understand that the most of the cost would be labor intensive. What I gathered is the cost to fix will not be 2K but maybe around 1K. Of course it will mess up the vacation and cost of towing and all that. So I still believe it will be a cheap insurance to fix it & I still intend to do this fix ... but let's see what they are going to say once i give them the serial number.
Thank you,
AL
Al,
Cost of repair of a KDP depends on LUCK.
If you are lucky, the pin will just drop into the oil pan and remain their forever doing no harm.
But, it can hit a gear (usually cam gear) and get thrown through the timing cover-- major oil leak. If you turn off the engine in time, not a huge repair.
Worse case is that it hits the cam/crank gear(s) and breaks off teeth from one or the other. Then, valve timing can get off and you can easily jam a valve into/through a piston.
Dice roll.
I was not aware that there were any Cummins B 12V exempt from KDP, so very much look forward to the "official Cummins answer".
Might run this by Cummins Corp as well: Cummins 800 343-7357
Brett
I Own a 1997 dodge cummins 4x4 and last year pulled my timing cover for the KDR.. I took a hammer and punch before I installed the kit just to see if it had backed out at all and it did... I drove the pin back at least 3/16.. So yes if you have a 5.9 it is a must do but the 8.3 is not a issue, So I have been told
My understanding is that Cummins will not even admit that this can happen, even though it is very well documentated. And many mechanics out there deny it to be a problem. I have had two, from different shops, tell me that my dowel pin isn't going anywhere, and refuse to do the job. So I am hoping for the best until I can find someone who will! Best to take care of it before it happens, then there is no problem.