So we're sitting here discussing whether this is the year for a headlight and taillight conversion on our coach... (thanks a lot, T&B :P ) Back and forth between the two main options. We haven't seen either up close but have heard positives about both.
Don't want to turn this into a debate, but would like to see some up-close photos of each in their recent forms. I do know there are some close photos of the Xtreme version here Chuck's coach restoration - headlights (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=13778.msg78530#msg78530) .
If folks have had theirs done at either FOT or Xtreme in the last year or so, we'd love to see close-up photos posted. We're not sure yet if we'll even go for it this year, but would like to collect as much data as possible. If you want to e-mail photos offline, that's fine, too. Our shared yahoo e-mail is probably best, we're "stcook" over there.
The Nacogdoches Economic Stimulus club thanks you ^.^d!
Michelle
For what it's worth; we had the misfortune of hitting an antelope in Colorado last fall. Damage including the headlight/parking lights on the right front. As insurance covered the repair we decided we'd spend the extra money and upgrade to the "Euro-look" lights. I found FOT will sell a headlight upgrade "kit" with all the hardware, wiring and fiberglass moldings included. Xtreme would have been my first-choice, but time/distance didn't allow. We're quite pleased with the end-result, done locally here in the Phoenix area. If you have access to a "good" RV knowledgeable fiberglass repair facility, you might talk to them and FOT about this option.
My coach has both the headlight and LED tail light upgrades like shown on the Xtreme webpages. I hit a deer on left front low, just knew I had screwed up that area of fiberglass. When I was able to look it over, all I found was some deer hair stuck to the paint like a bug splat. Told Rance about it when I was back to Nac last fall, he looked it over, found a few screws had been sheared, no problem, no fix until the next time at Xtreme, I could not tell any damage had happened.
Oh, for lights, Oh, you will have a sore tail, kicking yourself for procrastinating for so long, now you can see ! Also had the HID kit installed, again wow !.
FWIW
Michelle,
I'm in the same boat as you and Steve. In my case its another $1,000 as that's the cost in fuel from Cincinnati to Nac. But, ya can't take it with you (if you got it) and the longer you wait, the more it will cost (inflation is coming to a neighborhood near you).
I'm still undecided. I'll have to talk to Jennifer and James at Xtreme and see if they can convince me. This has been in the works now for two years... :o
ps My favorite is the three across configuration for the front. Not interested in the tail light conversion...at least for now.
I guess I should clarify - we are hoping for some up-close photos showing equipment, structure, fit and finish, that sort of thing that us persnickety engineers look at. :) We've talked with a lot of folks who have had the conversion done and both options (vendors) have great merit; not having seen too many (ok, 1) where we really got to inspect the finished product up close in person, we're hoping to see more conversions in detail.
-M
Have both (extreme) didn't realize how much I would would love the tail lights.
Be advised going down this road is like trying plastic surgery or crack. Once you start...
We had our headlights done by Foretravel. We looked at both places and really, really preferred Foretravel's implementation over Xtreme's (we like Xtreme and had them paint the new swooshes on our coach so it is nothing against Xtreme itself). We just thought that the Foretravel implementation was a more finished look (the inset where the lights sit has a wide edge to it rather than just being a flush hole) plus we liked the style of the headlights (Xtreme's reminded me of Christmas tree lights). We did it simply for cosmetic purposes. In the 12 years we have owned our coach, only twice have we driven it after dark. We have not driven it after dark with the new headlights so we don't know how they work. I have seen conversions that have left the fog lights the old square light. I think that looks incomplete and would recommend doing the fog lights too. Foretravel's fiberglass shop did an awesome job. The fiberglass work is perfect.
If you go to:
Body Painting (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=8362.msg36633#msg36633)
I posted some pictures of the headlights in process.
With this posting, I am posting some closeups I took this afternoon with this message.
Hope this helps. Let me know if you want more pictures.
Michelle,
I believe this is a Foretravel conversion I was watching while I was having some work done. Is this what you are looking for?
Michelle,
We are also mulling over a headlight/taillight conversion. I am not sure how Foretravel finishes the headlight mod, but Extreme uses gelcoat instead of paint. Should be much more durable. Even if our fog lamps were still good I would get rid of them as no replacement is available and they date the coach.
[Snip:
I have seen conversions that have left the fog lights the old square light. I think that looks incomplete and would recommend doing the fog lights too.]
The FOT "kit" we purchased included replacement, round, fog-lights.
For what it is worth, we are scheduled at FOT in March for headlight and fog light conversion. We have not talked about the taillight conversion but I'm sure it will come up with Billy Jack at FOT.
Ya never seen a U-Haul behind a hearse! Might as well spend it!
What would be a ball park figure to have the head light conversion done? I am not asking the exact cost just a ball park number for the head lights & tail lights???
Thanks folks - Gayle and Jim and Barry for those photos, Tom for the ones e-mailed to us. We also had a generous offer to see a FOT conversion in person thanks to a member who lives fairly close by (will be checking that one out).
Ours is an '03 so it's got factory FBP. Paint is a concern for the conversion, particularly the clearcoat layers since it's the front of the coach. We actually do have factory-installed 3M shield and have no discoloration or peeling, or at least that we can see on the medium charcoal that's the color behind it.
The jury is still out on doing the fog lights. Ours are outbound, low, recessed, and not as obvious as the 2001 and older, genset-hatch-mounted square ones. Guess some experimentation with Photoshop is in order.
We'd be doing the conversions pretty much for a face lift as opposed to functionality. Like Gayle and Jim we don't drive the coach at night.
Michelle
Call James at xtreme, or Jennifer - my reccoleection was 3K for headlights, less than 2K for tailights -
Regarding headlights, like most others I have always preferred to drive during daylight hours. However, after I installed four HID lights I found that night driving could be pretty pleasant once you could actually see where you're going. Getting through congested urban areas, and those times when you need to lay down some miles I find night driving to be pretty pleasant sometimes. Driving through South and West Tx in August with Taos in mind, nighttime driving has appeal given that you can spot suicidal deer way out front. My main rationale for going the HID route, though, was "what if I really need to get to the hospital, or some other emergency pops up in the wee hours?" Some such stressful situation coupled with fast driving with inadequate headlights would be a recipe for disaster.
I'd strongly encourage anyone considering the expense of a conversion to go the HID route. If anyone is considering it as a diy project I will post step by step pictures once I complete my installation. I have, proud to say, come up with a pretty innovative mount and aiming system along with waterproofing front and back that I'm happy with and that can be duplicated by others. It's very clean. It is not a clone of Xtreme or FOT. You just have to put your war face on as you prepare to holesaw through the $18,500.00 front cap...
Chuck
My issue isn't forward view nearly as much as side to side and rear view.
For me it is all the reflections bouncing around those big flat pieces of glass. On one night drive I was seeing a flashing white light near the right shoulder of the road. It turned out to be a reflection of the standby light on the MacBook that was on the dining table. Better illumination outside would definitely help.
After Marilyn drove for an hour at night, she was much more willing to get up early so that we could drive at first light in order to get our day's goal completed before dark.
I look forward to Chuck's DIY headlight upgrade. Maybe he could convert our coach to further prove the concept. ;D
I have the front Euro conversion... but I have never driven the thing after dark :) Even ny SOB after 2 years. Always parked WAY before cocktail hour :)
Understood and agreed, on the road by the crack of noon, looking for a place to camp around 3 or so is our standard mode. However, the time we were boondocking near the everglades and had been hearing a late arrival arguing violently....with himself....who then took offense at our presence, that night we drove. Easier than proving self defense.
Ah yes. Side and rear mounted FLIR would be the ticket for that. I was on a cutting edge research vessel with FLIR, not only could you see perfectly in pitch darkness, you could look at other vessels and see how much fuel was in their tanks. "Hey good buddy, looks like you're pullin a little low in that right saddle tank."
Gary Omel has added 2 more turn signals to the side of his coach. ^.^d
We do drive a night at times. Usually when trying to get from Point A to Point B. I do all of the driving so by about 5-6pm, we pull over for something to eat, I grab a hot shower and rest for a bit and then drive for another 2 maybe 3 hours, ususally in the dark. So yes we are doing the headlight conversion and fog lights. I will say, if we are driving at night, we try to only do that as freeway driving.
The lights bouncing around the inside of the coach with all the glass are a big issue. I have all of the living room shades closed so that the only windows exposed are front and driver/passenger sides. Now if I can get SOMEONE to turn the tv off! :)
FLIR would be the ticket. Had the pleasure of testing for the US Army in Europe. Could actually see through the fog. So much better than the Intensified Silicon-Intensifier Target (ISIT) camera tubes we were using. Never used either in a mobile situation.
I was wondering just how long it takes to have a headlight and taillight conversion completed?
Thanks
Barry & Donna
Well FOT is saying 2 weeks. Michelle and Steve are about a week ahead of us so they will be able to give a first hand experience with the timeframe.
Xtreme used to be a minimum of 5 days for headlights.
Yesterday was the 2 week mark on ours for the FOT/FT conversion, but we are also having Armorcoat done, so that adds time (they have to get the front end pristine/like new before applying the Armorcoat.)
A good friend snapped some photos of our coach yesterday morning. The fiberglass and paint is done but the lights weren't installed yet. The coach looks so much fresher already and what really surprised me is how much of a difference the tail light conversion design makes in the appearance of the coach ^.^d
We are very anxious to see it in person!
Michelle
Hi Steve & Michelle,
The new work sure looks good. It is amazing how this work makes the coach look like it just rolled off the line.
I'm sure you will love the change. I do!
Raymond
WOW...now I know what we will be doing next. We (hopefully) are leaving tomorrow morning so will miss you this trip. Carol and I have to stop to see your coach in person. Pictures are fantastic...
J & C
We agree! I'm sitting here debating whether to get a new mudflap to complete the look.... I think I'm channeling my inner Jeff :P
Michelle
Where did they hide the backup lights ?
Does indeed look great.
Dave M
It will be the lower of the 2 lights. Top is brake/signal in red, lower is back up in white. That's how the single-lens original (Ford Expedition OEM, I think) was configured.
-M
All you need on the back now is an air intake deflector painted to match!!! That grille looks scary to me now being so open to taking in crap and water, and it protects the camera too.
John H
Wow! She is beautiful! ^.^d
I think that's an optical illusion in the photo with some odd light reflection. The grille is angled downward, slightly shielded, and is actually the same color as the coach in that area. All that area is original and hasn't ever been a problem
-M
steve, you mite want to think about having them install 2 turn signal led lamps on the sides of the coach,1 mid ship and 1 at the rear corner,Gary Omel did this on his coach and it made it easy for people to see that you are going to make a move.
NICE ! ^.^d
I wish you had not shown those photos, they have got me thinking about that waaay too much.
Bill W. Total agree, when Xtreme did my coach, had them replace w/LED lites, turn/run lites at front wheels, and add identical LED lites at drive wheel area, plus add a red LED at rear side because then the new LEDs where installed on rear, no longer had a side showing lamp at rear.
With all the modes to the coach, best is the head lights, second is the rear door mod.
Dave M
Didn't do the door, but love the headlights and tail lights. Thought the rears were a little "spendy", but cheaper than trading up,
Hi Tim, Yup, I had to give it some thought on the rear door, but do like the split across lower edge version rather than the two vertical door hindge type, with the upper half easy to lift and the lower stays in place, only needed to remove for air filter service.
To look at it, it does not appear to have been modified, very nice for a weakening old man, safer too.
Cheers
Dave M
an"experienced" man with a much improved "ticker"
Hope you feel better every day Dave.
Tim
Thanks Tim, Yes, I do feel like the lucky puppy, better wind now, never had chest pains, just got short of wind, now after the operation and this last 5 weeks of recovering, I find my stamina has gone alot. But much better wind and as long as I do not sneeze, I am good. Sneeze is about like a hand gerande in chest, near fatel I think. :o
Dave M
Hocky has a Flir system on his coach and it is great. I saw it at a rally and you could really pick out the heat sources very easily.
As an aside to the discussion of headlight upgrades, the headlight upgrade "kit" we purchased from FOT has larger (5" vs. 4") low-beam lights. I've not yet seen others with the larger low-beams and didn't question FOT about it. Very pleased with the upgrade, both from asthetics and improved lighting.
That's what our conversion has, and what we saw on Tom and Shirley Day's CAT (FT) and Gayle and Jim McNeece's.
Here are today's photos of our coach - getting close!
Michelle
Wow! I can't wait to see our coach now! thanks for sharing!
I like the tail-light treatment! Also like the "Foretravel" rock-deflector / mud-flap. Ours was damaged after one of the snap-links failed; would like to find a replacement but it appears building your own is about the only [realistic] option.
Michelle, Pix 1 shows an amber light at front side, good idea, but why I also added a red one to rear side also, as in your #3 pix there is no side light after the front side turn/run lite at front wheel. Why I also had one mounted at rear wheel, trying to give everyone a chance to not hit me.
During the light mods, any side view of lighting is gone, meaning people can not see any light directly from the corners. I feel you gotta be seen to avoid some fender benders :)
Looking great, congrats
Dave M
Dave,
Excellent point - I just got off the phone with Billy Jack at FOT and those rear side red lights are being added this morning. We hadn't thought about the tail light design (no longer wrap-around lenses) changing side visibility at night so I'm glad you said something.
Michelle
Yup, it is always the little things that get ya, I noticed that issue after Xtreme did my tail lites, I says whoa, that looks lil dangerous, so we started adding lites, extra side turn/marker and the red rear side.
I do prefer being seen at night than scraped.
I should upgrade coaches tax wise, just hate giving up the lil hot rod.
Cheers
Dave M
Was in Nacogdoches today and saw Steve and Michelle's coach with the new headlights and tail lights. Amazing how the lights update the look. Would love to do the same but will just have to wait awhile. Appears that both MOT and FOT are busy places. Thats good when fuel has gone over $4.00 gal in Texas. Tks DAN
I'm so jealous! We'll finally get to see it in person tomorrow, probably around lunchtime. The gold "Foretravel" on the front wasn't on yet when those photos were taken.....
I keep looking at the pictures and am so glad we did the conversion! It's still a Foretravel; now it looks like a new one (especially since we've seen a few newer coaches that had that same paint design).
Michelle