Foretravel Owners' Forum

Yesterday I took our coach (2003, U295, 36') to a local Kenworth dealer here in Tucson to have the oil and filters changed.  I also asked that they lubricate the drive shaft and U-joints.  I did not ask them to lubricate the chassie and certainly not the brakes.  But unfortunately I assumed that they knew what they were doing and did not say "DO NOT LUBRICATE THE BRAKES!"  Wish I had, because they did and used the same lubricant they used for everything else. When I called to find out what lubricant they used, the person I talked to had never heard of a "clay based lubricant."  Wish I had read all the forum posts on this topic before taking it in!  I will put some wire ties on the nipples.

So, what to do?  I have only driven it home.  I had the brakes lubed at FOT last year so there is probably not a lot of the "purple" stuff in there.

Well, with fuel prices the way they are going, you won't need the brakes much anyway ! :)  kidding. 

George,  Knowing the usual grease monkey in these joints I ASSUME that he pushed grease into the fittings til he saw some come out.  If that is the case he has done It wrong, You will have to have them greased with the right grease,Regular chassis grease will harden up with heat and calipers will hang up.  Procedure it to adjust brakes til no clearance, grease calipers and then back off adjusters.  There are those here that know more than I do about it. 
I  had the same thing happen at a so called reputable shop in Atlanta.  Thankfully Bill W from this forum was able to straighten it out for me.
Gary B

Thanks Gary. 

If anyone else has some experience with this problem, I could use some more specific advice as to how to flush out the bad grease.  I won't be doing this myself.  I have an appointment with a Freightliner shop next Monday.

Also, is this something that needs to be done ASAP or can it wait until July when we plan to be in NAC?  Between now and then we had planned to drive about 3500 miles.

This situation brings to mind a pharmacist I worked with in Las Cruces.... his favorite saying was "What could go wrong?"  I may have a plaque made and mount it in the coach!

Stop payment on the credit card !!!!  That usually get someones attention..Sorry to hear. Seems you did everything right; knowing you, am sure they will hear about it....

George, I can't locate it right now but there is a detailed procedure for lubricating disc brakes on the MERITOR website.  I would do as Jeff says and stop payment.
When you go to the Freightliner dealer I would have the MERITOR guidelines in hand, they probably will no be any better.
I will keep looking for this Meritor document.
Gary B

Is it the one here in the Forum files section?


Michelle

George, I believe Michelle has the right manual.  Also Barry Beam has a manual on his site.
http://www.beamalarm.com/foretravel-links/PDF/brakes-maintenance-manual-mm4m.pdf (http://www.beamalarm.com/foretravel-links/PDF/brakes-maintenance-manual-mm4m.pdf)
Good Luck.
Gary B

George, See section 13 of this manual for lube instruction and grease specfications.
Gary B

George,
  I had the same happen with our 99. We put a few hundred miles on it around home and stopped in Nacogdoches on our last trip. So maybe we did 1300 or 1400 miles with the wrong grease. I asked Foretravel to fix it. The mechanic notes indicate: "Lube and expell excess grease." The bill came to $146 which included $24 for the grease and $122 for labor. I didn't notice any difference in the braking prior to the fix.
jor

I have the manual, but thanks.  James Triana sent it to me with a brief note that the wrong grease had to be removed.  The manual, which is not all that clear to someone that sold drugs for a living, covers lubrication, but I don't see anything about how one would remove the wrong grease once it has been injected into the system.  I have asked James for more complete info, but if anyone has actually done this job, please let me know the details.  Thanks in advance.

George, Just forcing the correct grease into the caliper should push out the wrong grease,  At least it did on mine.
Gary B

George, I sent you a PM, Bill W.

George, I would call Foretravel and talk to Wayne Musser. He just did some service for us. I told him I had put three pumps of chassis grease in one of the zerks on the left front wheel. He wasn't concerned by that, nor was Alton, the shop foreman. Of course I didn't pump grease in until it squirted out.
My understanding from Wayne is the clay based grease in not affected by changes in temperature, especially very cold. Best ask him or Alton, only costs a phone call.

George, hate to admit it but mine were greased with wrong stuff, in Tucson,by me. Drove it using brakes lightly as poss to fot.  They expelled by basically pumping in grease until bad stuff was driven out.  Next step, very important, was to check and adjust slack adjusters, they double checked these. I picked up a tube of clay based lube there. So, if you can find the lube a shop that knows how to adjust disc air brakes.....

George,
I think the wrong grease is purged by injecting the proper grease to expel the old with relief valve open.  As said above, see Ch 13 in the manual.

A couple of months ago I had this happen to me.  My local mechanic, who knows better, must have been on automatic pilot when he lubed mine (I think one of the Barry's suggested putting plastic ties around the grease fittings - a good idea.)  I spent two days calling all over for Meritor's grease and talking to a host of service managers.  The most credible was one who services fire trucks with these brakes.  He used the same "high quality, high temp" lube as for the rest of the job  As best I can tell no one uses that grease (except FOT and MOT).  It is virtually impossible to find it on the internet.  It can be ordered from Meritor distributors (ie. the part number is good.), but the handful I talked to did not stock it and could not recall ever ordering it.  Meritor's alternatives listed in the manual are mostly discontinued products.  Note also that the manual is pretty old at this point.  Two different people at Meritor couldn't find any newer, commonly used products that would meet the specs.

I'm guessing that grease technology has progressed to the point that most good quality products in use are probably ok.  Note though that it's very important to release excess grease by following procedure in the manual.  Now, having said all that, I wasn't willing to take a chance on this, so we delayed our trip by a week and I ordered two tubes of the Meritor product from FOT.  It only took about half a tube, which surprised me.

Good luck,
Mike
2003 u-295

Thanks everyone!  I will call Brad to FT parts and get a tube or two of the correct grease and go from there.  Sounds like forcing the wrong stuff out should not be much of a problem.  Hopefully the Freightliner guys can do the necessary adjustments too. 

Be careful, guys.  At a tech session at FT James T cautioned us that our disc brakes require very infrequent greasing, like once during the life of the brake pads.  They should not be part of the normal chassis greasing regimen, even with the correct grease.

I received this in June 2008 from James in answer to this question.
As long as they are a clay base I would not see a problem. The brakes only have to be greased 3 times in the life of the pad. We greased them once when the coach was brand new. Only two more times left.
 
James Triana
Foretravel Motorcoach
technical.assistance@foretravel.com

Mine was done prior to my purchase with the wrong grease.  I had the brakes pulled and cleaned. There was stuff baked on inside.  They had another FT there and the tech had used the wrong grease on that too. It was brought back and purged. As it had not been driven that worked.  Also there is a helper spring set that will help open the caliper up and it is recommended by meritor for our brakes too.

Morning George, yes you need to get the excess grease out before you drive very far it will cause the brakes to drag and run hot. Basically you have to run the brake adjusters all the way down, grease the caliper with the proper grease until grease comes out of the vent, then back the slack adjuster all the way off (with the vent valve removed) to purge excess lube from the caliper, then readjust brakes, run them down tight and back off 1/4-1/2 turn will usually get you about 1 and 1/2 inchs for brake rod travel. On the rear axle you will need to chock the wheels, build air and release the parking brake so you can move the adjusters. Once you do it one time it's relatively easy. Also on the slack adjuster there is a 3/4 inch plug on the front of them that you have to pull a little pin up so the adjuster will back off, I just take the whole 3/4 plug out it's easier than trying to hold the little pin up. When you finish adjusting put the plug assy back in.

One should never mix different greases, as some when mixed, can cause hardening.  It isn't just the clay mixed with regular.

Well, I have the correct grease coming in from FOT on Friday.  Brad at FOT parts is a great person to work with.  Always responds to email and phone calls.  And in my experience they provide very prompt service.  Not always the least expensive, but the right part ASAP is often worth the additional cost. 

I read somewhere that Meritor air disk brakes are often standard equipment on firetrucks.  So I went down to the local fire department to see where they have their trucks serviced.  They gave me a contact (I-10 International Trucks in Tucson) that does their service.  I called and the guy I talked to was familiar with them.  So that is a step forward.

Thanks for all the input.  Special thanks to Bruce for his detailed description of the flushing process!

Good advice to try the firehouse ^.^d  And as I recall from the Cummins website, the ISM450 is also often used in firetrucks, so that same recommendation may well apply to engine service (if Cummins certified) and perhaps other chassis systems as well.

Michelle

Yup, One of my employees is the Motor Sargent for the local Vol Fire Dept, their large trucks have the exact same disc brakes as on the coach. 
I down loaded the service manual and printed out one for him to take to the station, he has read every page many times I guess, never knew or heard of what is required to maintain the brake systems on the trucks.
Now he has gone over the coach brakes after going over the firetrucks, he feels comfy with the whole deal.
Nice to have a nice bright young feller on board, he has been with me over 8 years.
Lucky me
Cheers
Dave M

For those of you that might be interested in some pics of the air brakes, here are some from my coach.  It looks like the wrong grease (red) was injected into all four automatic slack adjusters; however, only the rear calipers got the wrong grease. Let me know if you think I'm wrong after viewing the pics. 

George,the grease they used on the slack adjuster's is O K,the caliper that has the red grease will have to be purged,I see no red grease on the other caliper's. ^.^d

I talked to Bill Willett yesterday and he suggested pulling the grease fittings on the rear calipers to confirm that the red lithium grease actually got into the calipers.  I did this today and I am glad to report that there was no evidence of red grease inside.  The inside the nipple showed only gray grease and when I probed the caliper with a small Allen wrench, there was no red grease to be found.... only gray.  So it looks like I dodged the bullet!

The slack adjusters were all lubed but the advice I have received from forum members that have looked into this, including Bill, is that lithium grease is OK and does not need to be removed.

Once again the Forum has come through with great advice and help!  Thanks to all that responded to my posts.  And thanks to Michelle and Steve for the Foreforum!

Here are some pics of the correct grease for the Meritor air disk brakes.  Got it from FOT today.  Cost is $24 per tube.

Thanks for posting the pics. I saw there was a manufactured date on the tube.  Was wondering if anyone at FOT said anything about how long the grease is good for?

I used mobil one synthetic Clay based grease. The old grease came out in chunks but this stuff has stayed softer as I had a bit more purged when I cleaned out the calipers.