Foretravel Owners' Forum

Michelle,
Would you post the process for removal & installations of the new Jack antenna?  How's the process to ensure no leaks after removing the Winegard batwing?  Do you use the same Winegard power booster?  etc...

Peter

Peter,

The Jack retrofit is the Jack head plus a bracket that mounts it to the existing Winegard mast.  This isn't the short model of the Jack. 

(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kingcontrols.com%2Fuserfiles%2Fimage%2Fjack-rv-squareposts-5sky-circle72.jpg&hash=0e86bc124fb913192fdda5bb1c5ef688" rel="cached" data-hash="0e86bc124fb913192fdda5bb1c5ef688" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.kingcontrols.com/userfiles/image/jack-rv-squareposts-5sky-circle72.jpg)

All you do is disconnect the coax, unbolt the batwing from the top of the mast, attach the Jack antenna with the included bracket, and connect the coax to the Jack.

JACK Replacement Head (http://www.kingcontrols.com/jack/jack_replacement_head.asp)

At the moment, we're not ready to give feedback since we're not sure if the Jack's internal amplifier is working.  Its LED is not lit despite our confirming there is 12V at the end of the coax that screws into it.  King Controls technical support says the only way to confirm it's working is to verify we're getting a "strong" signal on a meter, but they didn't offer to quantify "strong" :headwall:

Michelle

I suppose that without their stationary product that has the LED signal strength meter the only meter you may have is in your TV set up program???

Actually, with our current TVs we either have to run the antenna feed through the Dish Vip211k or use the separate HD tuner box to get a signal strength reading.  Since both those are a pain, we hadn't done a baseline reading with our Winegard before doing the swap. 

We do at least get 9 channels here in Nac with the Jack.  I think the Winegard plus wingman maxed out at 7 with crude adjustment.  We hadn't peaked the signal with it, either (Eureka marathon on SyFy, not much need for OTA TV ;)  )

-M

Is the antenna you're discussing the "Jack Oa-8000 Digital TV Antenna"? We've been considering one as-well.

Yes thats the one ... we replaced our Winegard + Wingman since we had some problems with it and the satellite dish trying to occupy the same space when they were both raised.  The Jack being much more compact does not have the same problem with our setup.

Steve

FWIW: Art Twaddle, who serviced our Aqua-Hot at Q had one on his coach; liked it a lot. Got us looking at it, as a replacement for our OEM bat-wing. We upgraded to a 32" Sony HD and thought it might make good-sense.

Replaced the old (1989) Wineguard antenna with the Jack head last November. Went from 9 stations to 17 and did not raise or rotate the antenna. A red light comes on on the bottom side of the antenna when the power boost switch is turned on.
We couldn't get any stations at all while we were five miles S.E. of Zapata, TX but no one was getting anything on their antennas. It was satellite dish or nothing.

The nice thing about the Jack antenna was we did not have to raise it, and when we did (as a trial) the reception did not change.

For what it's worth all Tiffin coaches now come standard with the fixed mount Jack antenna. There are three legs used to stand off the antenna from the roof and that is it!! No rotating, no raising and lowering. Just turn on 12V boost.

Weird thing tho: the cheap 15" LCD Dynex tv that came with the coach gets more stations than the 23" LED Insignia tv up front. (like 4 more)

Michelle and Steve,
Any update on the Jack antenna?  Just checking as it's on the list of items for us! 

Yes - we finally got a chance to run a controlled test and confirmed the internal amplifier is working, just the LED is not. 

We are pulling in the following stations here in MF.  7, 14, 18, 24, 36, 42, 54, and 62 (including the multiples).  The Austin major networks are at 100% signal strength.  I would say it works as well as the batwing plus Wingman did.  It may possibly be pulling in a little better as I don't recall getting 14 on previous trips.

It makes a lot less noise on the roof as you drive down the road (no occasionally thumping like the old Winegard).

We have the old Winegard with Wingman to freecycle, but we can't ship it (too bulky).  Anyone in MF this week or near Denton, TX next week is welcome to it.

Michelle

Hi All,

Innovative Coachworks in Junction City, OR. replaced my old batwing with the Jack unit last spring and I was very pleased with my reception. They used existing cabling. My neighbors were so impressed, they had one installed as well. I recently sold my 2001 U320 and purchased a 2000 U295. That was one of the first mods I did. Again, much better reception than the old batwing.

Regards, Lee

So what do you have to do to put the head on the existing arm?? So no new wires thru the roof or anything complicated??  DAN

found on ebay for  $38.99 plus $6.70 Shipping.  Oa-8000 digtal TV Antenna .  This looks to be a great upgrade.  Sometimes I think the existing antenna is vibrating in the wind  with a thump noise on the roof.  Can hear it but not very often.  DAN

Steve:  after you mount the Jack Antenna ?? is there anything you had to do when you lower the unit on the roof.  I assume the arm rest on the same rubber cushions.  ??DAN 

Got the Jack antenna today.  Assume it will go on the existing arm.  Comes with an electrical plug. Assume this will be placed inside the coach. Hope to find a plug which will just come on when you turn on the antenna boost switch. This will do away with the wings of the existing antenna. Plan to install tomorrow.  tks DAN

Dan,

Jack antenna goes on the existing arms just fine.  The electrical plug is for a home installation that has no winegard selector switch that supplies the 12v power to the antenna mounted amplifier.  Our coaches have this source of 12v power so the electrical plug is not needed.

The instructions say to not use the electrical plug and another 12v source.

So just install and connect the coax cable and enjoy.

Dan,

What Rudy said (he posted as I was typing).

If you got the retrofit head (as opposed to the complete Jack), it should have a bracket that allows attachment to the Winegard crank-up arm (after you remove the Winegard head, of course).

You should not need the power injector that comes with the Jack - I think all the FT-original batwings have built-in amplification (look for a switch inside your A/V cabinet OR it may be using the power button on the Winegard switching box).  You can also check the end of the coax up at the antenna to see if you have 12 VDC already - if you do, you don't need to use the power injector (or want to, because it will cause overheating of the Jack).

Oh, and while the Jack is shaped like an arrow, the antenna portion is the tail of the arrow - it's counter-intuitive but you'll want to rotate the Jack so the arrow shape points away (opposite) the location of the stations you're trying to get.  We confirmed this with the signal strength testing.

Michelle

Tks Rudy and Michelle:  Glad you told me not to use the electric plug in.  When the arm is down which way will the jack antenna be facing (pointed end goes to front of coach)?????DAN

I think you can mount it either way.  I just looked (coach is out front so Steve can work on some "projects") and the pointed end on ours is towards the front of the coach. 

Michelle

OK thanks, that should have the less wind resistance. Hopefully this will also elimitate the occasional thumping noise.  Tks again for all the forum help in obtaining this antenna.  Also tks for the info on the shower head it works great.  DAN

Hello, 
  I received my Jack antenna this afternoon and have already installed.  10 minute job.
I'm in Little Rock, AR and on my old antenna was receiving 10 channels, new Jack antenna 18 stations.  All stations have strong, steady signals.  This was a great improvement.
Bought the Antenna at PPL RV parts store.  $44.66 including shipping.
Here's a link:  RV Digital Antenna - Replacement Head - PPL Motor Homes (http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/tv-antennas/rv-digital-antenna.htm)
Thanks to all on this great forum!!!  Dave Abel

Thanks for the PPL link, Dave. Cheaper than the same item from Amazon, which I was just about to order. Kudos!!

Got the Jack Antenna installed and a big improvement.  Technology is really moving forward.  It is amazing what you can do these days to upgrade the coach.  This is a cheap improvement, thanks to this forum for all the information concerning tvs, suround systems etc. I am gradually getting knowledge of how some systems work and what some of the things on the coach are for.  DAN

After I kept asking Jim questions about the Jack TV antenna everytime somebody posted, he wrote this up for me (and went out and bought a Jack antenna for me as starting Sunday, we will be on the road, getting TV off of our antenna):

 

Recently there has been lots of hype about needing a "digital TV antenna" for receiving over-the-air digital TV. This has been especially true in the RV community. I write this note to help explain what is going on.

The most important thing to know is that there is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ANTENNA USED TO RECEIVE OLD ANALOG-STYLE OVER-THE-AIR TV STATIONS AND THOSE USED TO RECEIVE THE NEW OVER-THE-AIR DIGITAL TV SIGNALS. The only difference between analog TV and digital TV is the technology used to "package" the video and audio information contained in the electromagnetic waves broadcast from the station's antenna to your antenna. The electromagnetic broadcast waves have NOT changed. You do NOT need a special digital antenna to receive digital TV. You only need a TV (or decoder box) that is compatible with the new packing technology.

So, then, why is there all this hype about needing a "digital" antenna? It is because, unlike analog TV, digital TV reception is basically an "all or nothing" situation. With analog TV, weak stations appear with ghosts and other types of fuzz. While the viewing might not be perfect, it could be watched. With digital TV, weak stations produce a picture with broken up pixels or a blank screen. In my experience the broken up pixels images are not watchable. So, in the new digital world, unless you have a pretty good signal, you get no watchable TV.

For a viewer, the only way to solve this problem is to improve the antenna's receiving capabilities. This can be done by adding an amplifier and/or using an antenna with improved reception characteristics.

While most high-end RV's already have amplifiers in the antennas, the antenna designs are far from optimal. Most antennas are nothing more than a straight piece of aluminum (either tubing or a thin, flat plate). Some are a loop of aluminum tubing.

There are a number of antenna designs that improve on the basic straight or loop design. There are a gazillion TV antenna configurations for improved reception. Just do a Google search on TV antennas and you will see all kinds of odd looking things.

One simple method for making an antenna more efficient is to add an array of tubes or plates parallel to the side of the antenna element. These tubes act as "directors" and function something like a lens. Two antenna types that use directors are the Yagi and the Log Periodic Director Array (LPDA). There are examples of both these types and others at this website:

EV's Recommended & Top Rated DTV Indoor UHF/VHF Set Top Antenna Review Round-Up (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779)

The two popular RV "digital" antennas, Winegard Wingman and King Control Jack, are, what I would call, hybrid Yagis. They have "directors" similar to a Yagi, but do not follow a rigorous Yagi design. While there are small differences in the design details, both provide similar performance (some users say they are virtually identical in performance). Both provide significant improvement over the straight tube or plate design.

But, (isn't there always a "but"), this performance improvement comes at a price. The Jack and Wingman designs are much more directional than the straight tube or plate design. This means you have to be more accurate in pointing your antenna toward the broadcasting towers to achieve optimum reception.

So, there you have it in a nutshell.

Just remember, there is no such thing as a "digital TV antenna". A "digital TV antenna" is nothing more than a regular TV antenna with design features that make it more efficient. The reason you need a better antenna with digital over-the-air TV is the "all or nothing" reception behavior of digital TV.

Yes, I realize there are other antenna designs used on RV's. The other design I see most often is the "bow tie" design. It is very efficient and provides similar performance as the Yagi design.

I like the Jack design because of its compactness that should eliminate all the rattling around as you drive down the road.

Gayle,
Thanks for taking the time to explain the ins-and-out of TV reception.  I installed the Wingman with a new Winegard a couple years ago and the reception has been great.  Like you said, digital poses the problem of directions reception, so if some stations are in one direction and the others are not, I've found it difficult to tune-in.

We don't watch much TV when we camp so it's not critical to us.  We usually rent movies if the weather is bad.
Peter

Yup - footprint is the sole reason we bought the Jack even though we had a Sensar plus Wingman.  In some situations, we had spatial issues when both the Sensar and our Trav'ler satellite dish were raised.  The Jack solved this.  It's definitely quieter while driving, too.

Michelle

Is there a more reasonably price signal meter than the permanently mounted one offered by Winegard for about $69?

Kent,
The Jack has that option, and it is suppose to be much more responsive than the Winegard.  King's SureLock™ – Digital TV Signal Meter at only $39 or you can get fancy and get the base control when is mounted to your ceiling in place of the old Winegard lift and turn control .
(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F516Yo4zV9nL.jpg&hash=16ae9e7a9d3b1d0d669d9377391f9c6c" rel="cached" data-hash="16ae9e7a9d3b1d0d669d9377391f9c6c" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516Yo4zV9nL.jpg)

or

Look at the bottom of the following link:  http://www.kingcontrols.com/userfiles/file/Jack%20-%20Surelock%20Presentation%20%5BCompatibility%20Mode%5D.pdf (http://www.kingcontrols.com/userfiles/file/Jack%20-%20Surelock%20Presentation%20%5BCompatibility%20Mode%5D.pdf), the part that replaces your elevating crank handle.

The neat part of this is you can just swap out you Winegard head for the new Jack head without changing any of the wiring!

Installed Jack this AM in Conroe, TX. Channels went from 39 to 55 and one of the new ones was ABC, which made DW happy so she can watch Dancing w/ the Stars.
It is definitely directional; in two quadrants we get 55 channels and in the opposite two we get only 35. We noticed one channel pix-elating and a slight direction change fixed it.
I cannot tell if the red 12 volt indicating light is working or not in the bright sunlight.
Purchased from PPL in Houston for $40.58 including tax. It is interesting that while shopping in their store you must ask for "online" pricing at the checkout counter. In-store marked prices are higher.

My experience regarding pricing at PPL was the same as Dick's experience. For anything significant that you purchase over the counter at PPL, check the price on line. They sold me goods at the lower "online" price after I noticed the higher prices in the store and asked for the "web" price.

Ok things are not as they seem. I can not see that the red light is on on my jack antenna when I turn the booster switch on.  So now I think I may have removed something when I installed the new LED tv.  Can someone tell me where the built in antenna booster is located and what it looks like and where it is connected to the tv cable??? I am in a warehouse so the red light should be easy to see.  Tks for the help  DAN

Dan,

For me the booster is built into the multi-switch that you use to select Sat., Cable, Ant., etc. The boost power switch is the push button on the far left. Ours has a small red light to show when the boost is "on" (switch is depressed when On).

ok if it behind the black selection box I did not remove it.  My booster switch has a green light when on.  There are two 110 plugs in the tv cabinet.  One of these has a box plugged into it which saids something about the tv.  Couldn't read it.?? DAN

Dick:  Tks for the reply.  So from what you indicated, the boost connection is behind the selector box.  Other than the tv what would be plugged into the two 110 plugs in the tv cabinet.  You may have a different set up than mine.  My booster switch is located in the left wall in the selector cabinet.  Also should the light on the jack antenna be on when the booster is on?  I still have not been able to get it to come on.  I am just not very savy on these things.  DAN

Well in our case have a Bose AV unit plugged in up there. You might also have a satellite receiver, DVD or Blu-ray player, etc.
I am not sure the light on our Jack works either and if I remember Steve and Michelle reported the light on theirs did not work. Yet theirs and ours are working fine and receiving channels without problem. Maybe take it outside and test the operation?
I've attached a photo of our cabinet with the boost switch labeled. Hope this helps...

That's correct - our LED doesn't light but we do have 12VDC at the connector.  We also tested our Jack with and without power and there was a significant improvement in signal strength and number of channels when power was on.

Michelle

Dick /Michelle --Tks for the reply.  Ok I am not going to worry about the red light not being on. My booster switch is not like yours in as much as the 02 had the wall switch in the cabinet. Could be the  transformer etc was behind or in the tv cabinet and if so I may have removed it. Trying to locate where it is in the 02.  Tks DAN

Dan,

You should be able to measure 12Vdc on the coax on the roof. I think with the boost On you should have 12 volts between the outer braid and the center wire.

Dick

---

Hi, Michelle,

I too switched from the old batwing to the Jack antenna. I kept the existing external arm and simply removed the old batwing antenna and mounted the new Jack device, plugged in the existing cable and voila, a much stronger signal and much improved picture. I dont have a signal strength meter, but am very pleased. I did this on both of the FT coaches I've owned. I don't even rotate the Jack when I put it up.

Good luck and regards, Lee

I too am considering moving to the new Jack Antenna by King Controls.  My relatively new Batwing installed for digital TV had half of its wing fly off somewhere between Alexandria, LA and the East Texas border.... YES, the antenna was stored before moving the coach. ;D

For those of you who have made the installation yourselves, do you have any pictures of the finished product?  Is it a head for head swap or a complete hardware swap?

I understand that this can be an easy swap for the former Batwing with Wingman, but when I read the instructions for the Jack Antenna it looks a bit more complex.  The only Jack Antenna I have been able to find includes replacing the entire Batwing hardware and mounting the Jack Antenna directly onto the roof.  Is this your experience?  I was thinking that all that was needed was to connect the cable from the Batwing and the 12V wire already at the rooftop and replacing the rotate wheel and crank assembly inside the coach.  I also heard that the hole required may need to be larger than the existing Wingman hardware hole through the roof. 

Thanks for any assistance.

Ron,

Ours is a head for head swap.  It still uses the old Winegard crank up mast (to which we also have a WFR Boost (aka Ubiquiti Bullet) attached.  You can sort-of see it in the far left of this picture


This is the one we bought Amazon.com: JACK OA-8000 Digital TV Antenna: Electronics (http://www.amazon.com/JACK-OA-8000-Digital-TV-Antenna/dp/B003FO2O1G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1342729877&sr=8-1&keywords=jack+antenna)

Camping World does not stock that one, only the full-replacement version.

Michelle

                     Michelle, is the WFR boost in addition to the stock antenna amplifier? I installed the Jack last week but didn't really gain much. I may have all the available channels anyway.

                Dean

No, it's a Wifi radio (with a 3 dB omnidirectional antenna attached) .  Not related to the TV at all; the mast was just a convenient place to mount it.

Michelle

Michelle,

Could you post more info on the WFR booster for WiFi as I am about to mount an external antenna and it will save a bit of research on my part.

Thanks,

Keith

Keith,

Lots of good info in this Fire Ring topic WiFiRanger/WFR Boost Mobile/other external WiFi antennas - any users? (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=15207.0)

Wifiranger no longer sells the WFRBoost.  They are now selling the Wifiranger Mobile (a 600 mW radio with wireless "n") instead of the WFRBoost, and the Wifiranger Go, a different router than the original Wifiranger (now called the "Home") we have.  These new products are much more expensive (nearly 50% higher price) than our setup.

Michelle

Michelle,

Thank you.

Keith

Thanks Michelle that gets me a bit closer to resolving my question.  Another question.

• I thought that the Jack antenna came with an antenna boost capability. Does this capabiltiy work in conjunction with the antenna boost switch located in most Foretravels as OEM features>

• The Jack antenna signal strength function is located in the cabin portion of the full Jack Antenna system. Did you purchase the separate King Controls SL1000 SureLock Digital TV Signal Meter?  If so how did you incorporate it into the system?

[/list]

Thanks!

The Jack contains a powered amplifier; you feed it 12V via the existing coax.  We aren't using the antenna boost switch to feed it, which I think is just 12V power - we don't recall it being attached to a device of any kind, but it's been so long since Steve rewired that entire cabinet, he can't recall what was original.  We use the "boost" switch just to power a 12V fan used to cool the electronics in the cabinet now.

The aftermarket kit for the Jack includes a separate 12V power supply should you need it, with warning not to use if if you already have 12V on the coax feeding the Jack, as this could damage the Jack's amplifier.



No.  We use the OTA signal strength meter built into our Dish Vip211k receiver or our new bedroom TV.

HTH,

Michelle

I recently installed the Jack antenna, and used the OEM antenna boost switch for that, and it works great.

Oh man.  I just paid $125 for a Winegaurg Sensar IV antenna from Camping World and I'm not pulling in stations very well at all.  You think this Jack antenna will be better?

Thanks again! ^.^d  I'm off to purchase one of those Jack head units.  :) I have a dish722 receiver so I'm not sure if I'm currently wired to use any signal strength capabilities it may have.  I'll start with just the Jack head unit.  I do know through some investigations that I've already done for the Winegard signal strength unit that the OEM antenna boost switch is connected to a small amplifier just behind the switch inside the TV box.

Thanks again!

Whoa, you just lost me.  Are you saying that the Dish 211k receiver has a OTA tuner in it, and that you use that for your OTA TV reception?  Do I have that correct? 

Hate to tell you this, but all the reviews and individual comments that I have read say the Jack has it all over the Sensar.

Yes, the 211k has an OTA tuner and signal meter capability (and will load the "Guide" schedule if the digital OTA channel broadcasts it).  It will scan for locals and you can save them into the guide.

Steve has our Jack set up so its coax is wired into the "antenna in" on the separate switchbox and also to the 211k so we can either use the 211k's tuner or the TV's tuner to watch OTA content.

-M

And in a much smaller footprint that plays nicer with other things on the roof (like our satellite dish).

I found my on ebay.  "   OA-8000 JACK DIGITAL TV ANTENNA, ebay # OA-8000 JACK DIGITAL TV ANTENNA | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/180915298029?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D180915298029%26_rdc%3D1) - Price: US $28.50 + 9.50 shipping"  They had a couple left, but this seller does not have the greatest rep if he runs out of stuff.  Only a 97.5%.  His listing says he has more than 10 left, for what its worth.  Is RV Parts Express out of Indiana.  edit:  But my order was shipped from Clearwater, Fl???

Just got done installing my new OA-8000 Jack TV antenna.  It doubled my reception here at the stick house.  3 channels to 6 channels.  And I live south 60 miles south of Buffalo with lots of hills between me and the different towers.  I am quite pleased with it.