I guess the next gadget I need to look into is the Silverleaf monitoring system. From what I gather you set this up with your laptop and can monitor all sorts of critical and not so critical engine and transmission operation.
So my first question is what exactly would I need (besides my laptop) to set it up? ie an adaptor of some sort to plug into the coach? (03 400isl) Is Silverleafs website the best place to purchase it? Do I need any special version?
I have a 10" Acer netbook that I would use. Do you set it up on the dash so it's easy to see?
Dean
You can get it cheaper at one of the RV accessories places - Google RVUPGRADESTORE Silverleaf.
They have USB and Serial port adapters. I have the serial port model, then added a USB adapter when I switched laptops. You can download the software from Silverleaf anytime.
Dean, we have the same engine setup. We have a Silverleaf setup on our laptop and like it a lot. It is a pain to drive without it. When I bought mine I had to buy the adapter from Silverleaf. It is the plug that goes from your Cummins data port to your computer. You will probably have a choice between a serial port or a USB port. The former is the old style and most newer computers lack a serial port, but you can get a serial to USB converter that works fine. When I bought mine, the serial port option was about half the price of the USB. At the time I was using an old Sony laptop with a serial port, but that died and I had to install a converter. The Silverleaf software is free and can be downloaded from their site.
Once you have the plug and software installed, you must configure your own screen to include what you want. Attached is a photo of mine. If you have any questions on the setup, I'd be glad to help and there are many other forum members that also have Silverleaf that can provide information.
Nice! So with Silverleaf Laptop on, the backup monitor on, the in motion Sat. TV on, I may never watch the road again! And I'm the driver!
The only real options are if the ECM plug is a 6 or 9 pin plug (ours is a 9 pin and I would suspect yours is as well) .. the plug in our coach is located on the sidewall of the drivers area close to the front firewall and has a twist off cover on it.
Then choose the serial vs USB, if you are using a notebook made in this decade you should have USB, and I honestly don't know if Silverleaf still makes the non USB version anymore (so if you needed serial you would need an adapter)
We purchased ours from rvupgradestore here: Silverleaf VMSPC Engine Monitoring on Your Laptop (http://www.rvupgradestore.com/SilverLeaf-VMSPC-p/vmspc.htm) since they had the lowest cost, but the unit was actually drop shipped directly from Silverleaf.
George, did you actually snap a picture of the computer screen while driving at 54mph?
I guess it is OK, just so long as you don't use your handheld cellphone or text while driving, at least in California.
With a multi-tasking smart phone taking a picture & texting may be possible. However, I don't know that George was actually doing this at the time. ;)
No, I had both hands on the wheel. I had Pat do the pic.
George
Steve,
Looking at the link you posted, I am wondering what the differences are between the "VMSPC20 Silverleaf VMS PC Complete Engine Monitoring, Pigtail Only" version VS the 6 or ( pin models (VMSPC6 or VMSPC9). The difference between the 6 and 9 pin models I understand as just depends on what plug your particular coach uses, just not sure of what is meant by the "Pigtail Only" designation...
Thanks,
Don
Thanks for the info guys. I just ordered it from Rvupgradestore as you suggested. Steve mine is the 9 pin as you thought. Had it shipped to the campground here 2nd day air so I can play with it as we head North next week.
My netbook is new this year and does not have a serial port.
I will be tapping your forebrains again when I receive it for help setting it up etc.
I love gettin new toys........... :D
Pigtail only is for the rare coaches like my 95 U320. It only came with the rectangular Allison plug. Pigtail means bare wires on the end - no connector at all. You hard wire it in or fab your own connector. In my case I took some male spade connectorsan 'slimmed' them down to create push on connectors.
First, neither of us have smartphones (just the old fashioned "flip-open-and-talk" type... as Mr. Bell intended! :P )... so no texting or photos.... it's hard enough just to see the teeny-tiny phone numbers on the cell phone screen as it is!
For the Silverleaf screen shot, I stood over his shoulder for a very brief moment in order to take a quick photo "in motion"... taking back-seat driving to a new level! ::)
However, if you ask George, he'll tell you I drive 100% of the time... and that I let him hold the wheel three-quarters of the time!
I'm waiting for Steve to come up with a "heads up projection" so that all this information can be displayed on the windshield like one of the older Lincoln's or Caddy's used to have. That way, you never have to talk your eye off the road.
Steve?
Well thanks Patricia and George for the acrobatics and resulting photo. ;D It gives me a much better idea of what the screen will look like. Got me excited enough so that I immediately scorched my credit card once again.
Wow, I also just looked at Michelles link to Steve's Dash Netbox install. Very impressive job!
Yippee, got my VMSpc today and installed it. I think I am going to like this thing. So I am looking for suggestions on what gauges to add and how to do it. Such as Retarder and trani temp. like George's set-up that he posted earlier.
I simply velcroed my laptop onto the dash where it is easy to see. This is what I have so far.
I posted my latest Silverleaf screen yesterday in my album. I may have to get a larger computer if this keeps growing! Most of my gauges are very straight forward, with the exception of the retard temp and the text messages regarding the status of the cruise control and retarder. I have posted previously on how to set up the retard temp. Here is how I did the messages. There may be a better way, but it seems to work.
1. See photo 1. Define a new message box. This is a gauge type. Be sure to set it up for 2 lines so both messages for the cruise and retard can show in the same box.
2. See photo 2. You define these messages under the advanced tab.
Cruise Status equal 0 cruise off
Cruise Status equal 32 cruise off
Cruise Status equal 1 cruise on
Cruise Status over 127.5 cruise set
Cruise Status equal 33 cruise susp
Trans Retard Status equal 252 retard off
Trans Retard Status equal 253 retard on
Some of these may look redundant, but they cover various messages coming from the Allison regarding the cruise and retarder. I had to call Silverleaf to figure this out. If you have any problems, let me know.
Thanks a ton George. I have set up the cruise parameters as you show. I am not finding an option for the retarder in the option list. How do I create the retard status?
I will do a search and see what comes up as well.
Under "advanced" pick "messages." Then pick "add." This will bring up a second window. Scroll down to the retarder status. Pick that and then fill in the values as noted previously. See that attached photo.
Hmmm, I have done that several times and I don't seem to have any option for retarder at all in that list. I may have to call Silverleaf tomorrow to see whats up.
Dean,
Do you have the latest VMSpc? George had posted a link to the one with the retarder PID.
Retarder Temperature on Silverleaf VMSpc (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=14573.0)
Michelle
I think I may know whats going on. Because I don't have a disk drive on my notebook I went to Silverleafs website and downloaded directly from there. I am wondering if I need to do another download that may be on the disk but not on their basic download.
I will give them a call tomorrow to check it out.
Michelle, I did try George's updated link but it didn't change the advanced list to include the retarder status options. I have also searched through Silverleafs forums to see what I could.
FWIW heres my latest screen,
Okay I found the issue. The retarder status and percentage were undifined in the PID Sniffer. So I have set it up per George's instructions and have the "Cruise off" showing on the message box.
But the retarder status does not show up. I assume it won't until the trans is engaged?
When I first got our VMSpc (usb version) I had to change the bit spacing (under advanced parameters under communication) to get the odometers, transmission selection and retarder status to work. I'm not at the coach ATM, but try increasing the bit spacing by +1 or +2 and see if you get transmission status etc (instead of the ? ?)
Okay, I finally have all gauges working. I spent some time on the phone with Mark at Silverleaf to and had to change some values in the system to make the retarder show up.
So what he told me was that on my coach the only retarder gauges that will work are status and retarder oil temp. I have both showing up now.
My question is do any of you know what the red-line high temp should be set at in the parameter editor? Mark didn't know either so I just set it at 350F as a guess and set the yellow at 275f.
The third retarder gauge is the retarder percentage and that's the one he says the system will not read. I wish it could but oh well.
Besides that we did about 375 miles today and I had a ball watching the engine functions and feathering the throttle trying to get the best instant fuel economy I could. I really like this gadget (my wifes term).
I talked to Brett Wolfe about what he thought I should do when the retarder temp gets too hot (say >300 degrees). He advised slowing down (i.e., reducing the energy going into the retarder oil) and shifting to a lower gear so that the engine rpm is higher, which in turn increases the flow in the engine/trans cooling system. I hope he sees this and comments. It would be better coming from him.
How hot did your retarder get? Did you go down any long, steep hills?
No, I didn't have any retarder gauges working until we stopped today and I talked to Mark @ Silverleaf.
I am looking to set some MAX. Temp readings in the system so that IF the retarder did get too hot I will get a yellow and then red light warning on the gauge. So from what I am hearing so far 300F should be high end?
10-year old rule and rationale, developed at an FMCA Seminar:
- Allison has two sampling locations, the Retarder section, and the Sump
- As stated above, Foretravel uses the Sump location, and the Sump reads lower (cooler) than the Retarder section by about 50 degrees.
- The Allison Engineer said the Retarder software starts "loadshedding" at 300 degrees (Retarder) and ceases working entirely at 350 degrees.
- Conclusion was, using Sump temps, 225-250 degrees = "Caution"; >250 degrees "Red" and "Back-off".
This worked for me for several trips through the Colorado Rockies.
I had a fun time driving down route 14 out of Yellowstone. IT was intense mountain driving. I never went above 225 degrees. I was running up to that for a couple miles that only had short downhills. I decided that it was lunchtime and let it idle a bit. cooled down nicely as I ate my sandwich. Then started driving again. No problem. Oh and it was over 100 degrees out. That makes a difference at altitude.
So coming up the highway at 62 mph the retarder temp readings I am getting are about 366-f with the retarder inactive. When I engage the retarder at an off-ramp etc the temp goes up to about 550-f.
The transmission temp is running normal and does not change much at all even on hills. I think it may have something to do with the values I put in the parameter editor. Mark had me put a multiplier of two in and I wonder if that doubles the sump temps on the gauge.
Anyway, the retarder seems to be working fine.
We drove the mountains over to Asheville and I was glad to have it. On a side note it is beautiful here.
In my experience, the retard temp should be the same as the trans when it is off. If I were you, I would try a multiplier of "1." I really don't think it gets that hot (i.e., 550 degrees)..... but 275 seems about right.
I fully agree George. I believe the reason Mark had me multiply by 2 was to get the gauge to read the sump. I will call him Monday and see if there is another approach. I guess it doesn't really matter as long as I know the readings are double actual temps.
By the way thanks again for your input and help with getting this thing set up.
Are the Laptops plugged into your 110 circuit and do they take a lot of battery power when the gen is not running??
I have a gps to work on my computer but seldom use it as I need power from somewhere to operate the computer. DAN
I plug in the computer to 110 the inverter takes care of it with no effort especially when the engine is running.
Thanks for that tidbit John. I have been unplugging my laptop and running it off it's battery until it gets low then plug back in and start the genset. Fortunately my little Acer Aspire goes about 6 hours until it dies.
Like John we use an inverter and plug the computer into it while we are driving. Works very well. I don't think the computer charger draws very much (at least relative to your house battery capacity).
Dan,
Try a <$10 car plug to your netbook/laptop. Ebay is cheap with Radio Shack being a bit more. Ross stores even have them. Your computer could run for almost a week off the cigarette lighter plug. They plug in the same place with the same kind of connector as the 120V power supply.
See an example at: Replacement DC Car Plug for Rocketfish Laptop Power Adapter RF-BPRACDC2 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement-DC-Car-Plug-for-Rocketfish-Laptop-Power-Adapter-RF-BPRACDC2-/310397062978?pt=Laptop_Adapters_Chargers&hash=item48451b4f42)
Pierce
Should have added that for those running engine software or GPS off of a Mac with Bootcamp, VMWare, etc., the slick magnetic 12V adapter is also available with an example at: Car Charger For Apple Macbook Pro 15" 17" Laptop 12V DC Power Adapter Cord | (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Car-Charger-For-Apple-Macbook-Pro-15-17-Laptop-12V-DC-Power-Adapter-Cord-/260999158502?pt=Laptop_Adapters_Chargers&hash=item3cc4c31ae6#ht_631wt_1095) Again, check laptop vs adapter for compatibility before ordering.
Pierce
ok another question which I should know but----If the boost switch is on and gen off and running down the road will that charge the house batteries back for the use of the laptop by the engine . DAN
Dan, no need to use the boost switch. The isolator takes care of it and the alternator charges to the central stud and splits to the house and chassis from there.
John: Tks for the info. I am going to operate my laptop out of the 110 soucket by the drivers seat and see how that works out. DAN
Dan.... Just to clarify my post above, we use a small Radio Shack inverter (400 watts I think) for the computer charger. I plug it into one of the 12 plugs in the dash. I guess I could use the whole house inverter, but it seems like overkill and I figure the less I use it, the longer it will last.
George, I have been using mine every trip for a lot of years. I have not worn one out yet. In fact mine switches on automatically when shore power is not present.