Ok, well it's been a while since I've been on the forum and our coach has just been setting in the barn. Last week after a major interior / exterior cleaning, my 2 teenage boys and I took a 6 1/2 hour drive from Northern Michigan to Chicago. On the way down we ran on a full tank of fuel that sat in the tank since August of 2011. I know!!! That's a long time !! At the time of filling it up in August I put in a fuel additive knowing that I would be having shoulder surgery at the end of December and not able to winterize the coach. Also at that same time I carefully added a serving of anti-alge to the tank.
So, we hit the road and had no problems what so ever for the 6 1/2 hours down. The weather was nice, temps fair and every guage was operating just as they should. My trans guage usually shows about 150 depending on the outside temp and if running in hills or not. The radiator always stays real close to 180 but goes up a couple degrees and then back. The air pressure mostly stays between 90-100ish. I know there is a tiny leak some place because after setting for an extended period of time she drops in height. So, on this trip down all of these guages were fine and I had no surprises.
As we were leaving from being in a parking lot boondocking for Friday and Saturday, we got a horrible downpour of rain Sunday from 11am until about 1pm. We left the parking lot at about 12:45 and hit the road. About 15 minutes after we left the rain was not so hard but still was coming down pretty good and we had just gotten on the highway. I'm clipping along on a 6 lane highway and ended up to the far left and in only 1 lane from the cement wall. All of the sudden I notice that we started to slow way down. I'm thinking to myself, WHAT THE HECK!!! I look down and the air pressure was dropping SO FAST, the trans temp looked to be up about 20-30 degrees and the radiator was showing almost 200. But...the air dropped so low so fast that the air brake started to set. Well, I can tell you I was on high alert and freaking out. All I could do was panic and pray. I pushed in the brake button to keep it from locking up and got over to the wall lane at my first chance. It happened SO FAST and then we were doing about 25 miles an hour on the highway. I want to think that I actually stopped on the inside shoulder and had to restart the engine. Once back started I ran the shoulder for several yards until the traffic was a little less and shot over to the next lane then the next and so on.
About 2 miles up the road I got off at an exit all the time watching my guages which seemed fine for the most part. The air pressure was fine but my panic mode was still high. I pulled into a hotel parking lot and got out. I walked around the coach looking for anything out of the ordinary...leaks, hisses, everything. But there was nothing I could see. I got back in, looked at all guages and proceeded back on the highway. We were at about 1/2 tank of fuel leaning to the 1/4 tank mark. I drive for about another hour give or take and then fueled up. I estimated it would take about 75 gallons or 1/2 of my 148 gallon tank and it actually held 71 gallons from a good size truck stop where I knew they went through good fuel volume. We drove the rest of our 5+ hour trip and never had an issue with anything. Ladies and gentlemen....I'm leary!!
My neighbor is our county diesel mechanic and I asked his thoughts one day about it. His first comment was that things don't "fix" themselves. I told him I prayed over it and that left him just looking at me smiling :) Then he said you probably had alge in the tank but I mentioned having put the anti alge stuff in it. He suggested that I replace the fuel filter and said that there would most likely be green slime in it. Well, I changed that and the fuel /water seperator filter today and found there to be nothing green or slimey at all. In fact, they both looked completely fine.
So, with all that being said, do any of you have any ideas as to what could have happened?
I will add one thing. When I got back to our town and dropped my boys off and then headed to the barn I noticed the belts really barking in the back. Last year a couple times they squealed pretty good to. I tightened them up good at that time but never had done anything with them on or before this trip. I wondered if in the rain and at the time having been going up a VERY SLIGHT to almost flat incline....could that have been an issue had I not heard them from the rain and road noise???
I've given everything I can think to give you for some knowledge and advice. We are planning a trip to Tennessee in August and it's going to be a fair haul. I will have my whole family , inlaws included and really don't want there to be any surprises.
Thoughts?
Carl Sandel
36' 1991 U280
3208T Cat w/ 130k miles
Northern Michigan
Put the clues together and see what you have. A known slow air leak, slipping belts (including I suppose to the air compressor), more slipping of belts in the rain, and loss of air to the point of the brakes applying themselves.
Get the air leak fixed and put new belts on it, you should be fine.
I could not agree more with Tom.
Former owner of a Fortravel 1988 ORED with Cat 3208T.
Carl, How long since the air dryer has been serviced ? If the dryer purge valve stuck open momentarily you would have the air loss symptoms that you mention. The very humid air in a rainstorm coupled with a dirty dryer could have caused this.
If I remember right on the 3208 the Compressor is belt driven, a wet slipping belt could cause the compressor to fail to turn but that is a stretch.
Check for the leak
service the air dryer
Tighten or replace the belts ( I know on a 3208 it is a b.....)
Good luck
Gary B
Sounds to me the guy upstairs was trying to tell you not to drive in pouring rain! Why do people ignore weather and insist to drive in poor weather? I would always wait for the next day to drive the next day when the sun is out. I have heard the best, I had to get home to mow the lawn!
I wish I had a choice not to drive that particular day but I had kids that needed to be home for school so there wasn't much I could do to wait a day on that one :)
Gary, yes the belts are a real pain to replace and there are 9 or 10 of them.
My air leak is very very slight, like "almost" nonexistent...but still there none the less. I will see what I can find out today if it is quiet enough from road noise today around my place.
So, about the air dryer and belts. First...can a person buy air dryer filters from The Filter Barn?
I ask this because it may help narrow down some information that could help with feedback from you all.
This July we will have owned our coach for 4 years. The first year we just spent cleaning it up, getting used to things and made some minor adjustments here and there. The coach sat in our driveway outside that year.
The second year we owned it I put on all new Gates belts and installed the new air dryer filter. ( I remember a large order from TFB at that time and think I may have gotten that air dryer from them...if not I picked it up locally BUT it was at the same time as belts. That year with new belts and air dryer filter she sat outside.
The last 2 years the coach has been in a metal pole building not heated but with no circulating air or outside elements.
I say this to get an idea from seasoned vetrerans as to whether or not I really need to change belts....I SO DREAD THIS CHORE and would the air dryer need a changing also.
So...Since the air dryer filter and belts have been installed from new, we have only put on 5000 to 5500 miles ( and 5500 is a huge stretch since we can track every time the coach has been out ) and of that time it has been stored indoors for 2 years.
Should those belts still be supple enough to simply snug and adjust?
And should that air dryer filter still be in decent condition with those few hours of use on it?
Thanks in advance
Carl Sandel
Carl, The belts should be fine, they will last years. If you have already serviced the air dryer you will have to look further and at this point I am just guessing without having the coach at hand.
In my Opinion there are no reasons for a coach to dump air other then , Air dryer stuck open, Or pressure relief valve on wet tank stuck open.
Both could be due to non use.
Sorry I cant help further.
Gary B
Thanks Gary, I will ask my neighbor if he thinks either of these can be lubricated some how ....and to help me find them.
Carl Sandel
Carl, No way to lube these. Look to air dryer, does it SPIT or POP OFF when you start engine, if so its operating. May have been dirt or other crap in valve. While you are at it drain all tanks, if ANY water in them you may have dryer problem. Again just guessing long distance.
Call me if you want 770-595-3891
Gary B
You could look at your air governer. It could have had a problem and not allow air to air up. Then your height adjustment and brake use would bring the pressure down. Check under te wheel wells for tread marks. You could have been riding on the tires and building friction but OT is the temp spike that is odd here. Can't figure how air pressure changes our temps.
Really difficult to call. One possibility I can think of is like John mentions with the air governor causing low air pressure with the result that the body dropped down and the rear tires started rubbing on the wheel wells causing more HP to be used resulting in higher engine temps. Other possibility would be a road debris momentarily blocking/moving the right height control.
My rear tires don't clear by much as is and when my airbag failed, they touched and left plenty of evidence.
If it happened once, it will probably happen again. Yes, check the rear wells for tell tail marks.
Pierce
That is not a long time. I hauled the stuff bulk and could tell you stories concerning long time fuel storage that would raise the hair on the back of you neck. Algae requires perfect conditions to grow in fuel and is more predominant in coastal areas of the country. So that is the least of your worries.
Now the brakes, I don't have a clue. In all my years of driving over the road, I never had air pressure go down that fast. Had it not build pressure on one occasion, because the key got turned off. It had a manual fuel shutoff and would run with the key off. You say it was pouring rain??? Thinking the rain must have had something to do with it... I have had various different air valves mess up and need replacing. Need a mechanic for that stuff, and they often guessing and replacing valves. Just a piece of dirt in the air system will cause one to mess up. And one never knows for sure except the new valve "appeared" to solve the problem.
Ok, I just got back from the barn and here's what I noticed and made notes of.
The air pressure was on zero after setting for the last week. I started to coach and looked at the time. It took 5 minutes to reach 90 on the air guage. At real close to 120 or just below, the air dryer blew off for the first time, this was 7 minutes from starting the engine.
The passanger side was down on the tires and the drivers side was up and looked almost like normal. This is when I went out and hadn't started it yet. The passanger side always rides and blows up slightly less than the drivers side. I would like them even if someone could share how to adjust it after I find the leak.
Would that mean that the leak is on the passanger side?
I have 2 needles on the air guage and don't really know what they mean. If someone could share that with me it would be greatly appreciated and I will make a note with that info and put it in the coach. The red needle is always about 5 lbs ( I assume the numbers are in lbs ) higher than the white needle.
When I got in the coach and started it I didn't release the brakes and didn't pump them or do anything that would use any air...I just let the engine idle.
After reaching the max air volume I noticed that it was dropping but it was a very very slow process. so much so that I had to really be still and not move my head and it almost played tricks on my eyes.
When the white needle was about 88-90 and the red about 95-ish, they started going back up and once reaching the max...the air dryer blew off again. This was at the 20 minute mark.
I closed up the barn and got under the front where it is basically wide open space and l listened. I am assuming that the leak will be a low volume hiss, but did not hear anything. While under there I did as Gary suggested and quickly opened and closed both air tanks. Not a drop of water or even a mist came from either tank. I did notice however that when closing the one one valve on the passanger side, it has a very slight window of being 100% closed. Just a smidge past that spot either way would then leak. As I adjusted it the air was off and there was no sound what so ever.
I want to mention that I have another guage which I believe to be an after market guage. It is on the lower left of my dash but mounted under so it hangs down. I "think" it says brake air or just air but I am not 100%. I DO know that it is air of some sort. When I was cleaning out my generator bay the other day I noticed ( and may have noticed this a year or so ago, but since everything seemed fine I haven't been concerned ) a very tiny air line that was broken in to. I tracked it to that guage under the dash. That guage by the way has never worked...duh!
I went to the back of the coach and tracked it to what looks like another air tank above the axle differential. Actually I was on the driver side rear tire shinning a flashlight and that's where it "looked" like it was going.
I didn't hear any leaks in front or rear, but realize that I need to get to the source of the other end of that broken line. So that brings me to another question. I have the coach setting on it's own now, meaning the support pipes are NOT under it keeping it up and giving me a peace about being under it. If I raise it up with the air bags and lower it back down to support it with the pipes...isn't that going to remove the opportunity to have pressure pushing air out?
If so, couldn't I raise it up PAST where the pipes would go and still put them in place incase something were to happen they would be a safety catch, and with the coach still being supported by air there would be pressure so I could check it out?
I was going to crawl under it not supported and with out the option .... but all I could hear was my wife.....who I love dearly :) getting in my you know what about not having the pipes there. It's not a comfortable feeling knowing that there is no safty if you know what I mean and I knew I wouldn't hear an air leak over her telling my to be careful the whole time I was under there.
So I will wait to hear your thoughts about the pipes for support before I can give a report about any leaks near that rear tank or lines etc.
Lastly...if an air bag had a tiny pin hole, could you hear it or if that was the case would it just pop. I'm really trying to find this and remedy it once and for all.
Any other ideas I will gladly attend to. I seem to believe that my air dryer if fine.
Carl Sandel
They leak, don't pop. Use a small hand sprayer (windex size) with a water/soap mix to search for leaks. When the air bag leaks, it will probably be in the direction of the tires as they seem to throw road debris against the bag so that is where the leak usually is. Will blow a lot of bubbles at the leak. Stick an ounce of liquid soap to 12 ounces of water so it's a nice rich mixture. Kids bubble soap works well also.
You did not say whether there were any tire marks at the top of the wheel well.
You can look at the wheel wells and spray water/soap mix on the bags without getting under the rig. Better safe than sorry so might be a good idea to let a mechanic under the rig if a quick look and spray does not find anything. It's really easy to get hurt in a split second underneath. You've seen the bumper jack photos.
Pierce
Carl, The air gauge needles, One is the wet tank , the one you found at the rear axle, the other is the dry tank, these are under the front of the coach most likely. When you apply the brakes you will notice that one needle moves faster than the other, this indicates the amount of air pressure that you are applying.
Use your pipes to be sure coach does not come down while under it, place them between the frame members and then if you lose air the coach body will not drop on you.
Carl, It looks like you need to find someone probably in your area to get with you and go over all your coach systems to explain what they are and how they operate. If you get in the Atlanta are contact me and I will do it. For the most part the systems in our coaches are similar and not hard to understand how they work even if you don't have the space and tools to do repairs. The more you know about the coach the better able you are to diagnose problems and get repairs done more efficiently.
Gary B
Pierce, Sorry I forgot to mention the wheel wells, there was a mark there from the previous owners and since I have had it I see nothing that would be new for me. I think I will hit it with a bit of black paint and that way "if" it ever does happen to rub, I will have a noticable spot to identify.
Gary, I already did lift the coach and put the 8 pipes in place. I have it a tad higher just so I know there is pressure on them. I found that air line that is broken...it goes to the exhaust brake, that BTW has never worked. I guess I can get some new line and repair that. Also, I did not hear any air coming from that area either, most likely due to not having the engine running. I may start it again to see if anything comes from there though. It really only appears that the broken line runs from that guage to the brake mechanism. I don't or should I say, I haven't found a source for where the air would actually come from to start with. There is no drain valve for that rear air holding tank, at least not that I found while under there. Maybe that is "drained" with the air dryer? I will be going back out shortly to look and listen again. I came in to grab a spray bottle as Pierce suggested since I'm not hearing anything at all.
Gary, thanks for the offer to help go over the systems. I am rarely in Atlanta but I will take you up on it if I am. I appreciate it :)
As mentioned earlier, my neighbor is the county road commission mechanic and works on all their diesel plow trucks. He has been a great source for quality American made parts at the counties cost. He is going to help me replace all 8 air bags sometime soon and mine are looking pretty rough and he's going to do some brake work for me also....again at cost!! So, I figure I had better take full advantage of that deal. He really knows his stuff so he's kinda my go to guy for mechanical stuff. I just really like to check with our forum for the technical stuff as there is SO much knowledge about our Foretravels. Sometimes he just looks at it and scratches his head :)
I'm hoping the spray bottle finds the leak....I just want to know where it is.
Now I have found that the little "catch" dealy for my shifter won't engage to lock it into place when shifting from one gear to another so I've been messing with that. We have had a couple times that the coach wouldn't start and after wiggling the shift handle it's fine. It just did it again and I was wondering if when the coach is raised as high as it will go, maybe there's a sensor that won't allow it. Probably not but I thought I'd toss that out there. I can see the part and have lubed some of the internal parts down in that little housing box the shifting cables are in.
Back later, Thanks again everyone
Carl, There is a drain for the rear air tank, most likely it is just forward of the left rear wheel just inside the fibreglass body. It will have a petcock on it. A airline leads from the tank to the petcock.
Gary B
When you find the rear tank vent: if you find water, you need to revisit the dryer. Since you're looking for a LARGE momentary leak, it's not a spray bottle kind of problem. My bet is on the governor. Since it would cause the symptoms you cite and is cheap, I'd replace it now. Many of us carry a spare just in case we encounter your problem.
I'd sure like to learn more about the "governor"; like what it looks like, where is it, how does it work, what's involved in replacing it and what is typical cost of part?
(if this isn't the right thread, maybe split it out?)
Dick
Here you go Dick:
Air Governor/ Air Leak (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10454.msg49075#msg49075)
Peter
And a couple of pics of the D2 governor in these posts:
99' U320 air brake high pressure (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10296.msg47934#msg47934)
Low Air Pressure from Air Hose (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=11661.msg59004#msg59004)
I have changed many sets of belts on the 3208 cats and yes they are a real job. Sounds like they are loose and the water from t;he rain let them slip. The most likely ones are the 2 belts that go from the crank over an idler pully that is the tensiion adjuster. It is on the p;assenger side of the engine and if they are not properly tensioned will slip very bad as they drive the alternator and also the air compressor. I made a tool from a 1/2 inch bolt that I could put between the crank pully and the idler to be able to tension the belts as there is no place for a pry bar. On the bolt I slip a 1/2 inch socket on the threaded part and then use the nu;t to force the pulleys away from each other. If you have a question you can call me at 813-215-3463, Ron
Well, here's the skinny on what I found. I took out the quart spray bottle and quickly went through that with soap / water. I then brought out a gallon of same and only used a small amount before making a discovery. I sprayed every single connection I could find from front to back....EVERY SINGLE ONE :)
I sprayed every bit of the 8 air bags except for a tiny bit in a couple tough areas to contort myself to. I was thinking ...that will be the spots they leak, lol
As I found the drain valve Gary pointed out for the rear ( wet ) tank, I sprayed it and holy cow!! She was leaking!! I turned it on and off real fast and still leaked. Then I rotated it 180 and it was better but I noticed that the actual turn mechanism was a little loose and figured it is best to completely replace. So..leak #1 FOUND. QUESTION, is one style valve better to buy than another?
I made me way to the bay that holds the on board air compressor and found a leak just past the on / off valve for the extention air hose. I actually gave it a couple twists with a wrench and it is 100% tight. Leak #2 REPAIRED
Then I continued to spray the lines under the step, behind that section and behind the compressor and no leaks there. Then I sprayed all of the lines, connections, adjustment knob and pressure relief valve on the compressor and wouldn't you know!! The pressure relief valve leaked. So I pulled on it quickly and let out some air hoping to reseat it but it still leaked just a touch when I sprayed it again. QUESTION, Can I remove it and put in a plug with some Teflon tape so I don't have to worry about it again? If not, is there a good quality relief valve I can count on?
Leak #3 FOUND
I kept hearing something like tiny bubbles ( not the song, lol ) and when I looked just above the on / off valve for the air hose, I seen a small foaming glob and when I wiped it away I found a wear mark on the line!! Leak #4 FOUND ( I actually let out all the air from my lines and roughed it up with course sand paper and mixed a 2 part epoxy hoping it will seal it off. I will know tomorrow and if not I will have to cut and splice )
After adding up the tank valve, the compressor relief valve, the loose line for air hose and the wear spot it would equal the slow leak that allows the coach to sag and settle down over time when parked. It does not however address the fast leak I had momentarily the other day in the rain on the highway.
I checked out my belts this afternoon and found that the 2 that run the air compressor and the altinator are in fact loose. Loose to the point where I can wiggle one effortlessly about an 1"+ and the other about an 1". The rest seemed to be fair and I will check them again tomorrow, but the alt and comp should certainly be tightened!! Could that really have been a big factor with slipping in the rain that day on the highway?
Ron, I seem to remember about a 1/2" tention bolt off the top of my alt with an adjustment bolt and a set bolt. It looks like a pretty simple job to tighten. I can lift the bed and set right on the engine. I'll let you know if I find out different.
Brett, No moisture to speak of from any of the 3 tanks drained, so that's good.
Will the air governor be marked so I know exactly what part to replace it with... number, id tag, or something?
Thanks for the pics and links to that info, it will certainly come in handy tomorrow when I get after the replacement. I know it's not been done while I've had the coach and knowing who owned it before me, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have thought about it.
So, that's how that went. I found one more issue but it will require another post to specify.
Thanks all :)
Sounds like the belts are slipping on the compressor, and while they may look good if they have slipped very much they will be glazed and need to be replaced. The air governor is usually on the back of the compressor held on with 2 bolts, they are not expensive larger NAPA stores may have them as well as any truck parts stores. Your air dryer has more parts than just filters(purge valve, unloader valve, pressure releaf valve, and so on) kits are avaliable you will need your dryer model #, and they are not hard to rebuild although they can be hard to get to, it's usually easier to remove it from the coach to properly clean and install the kits. Also one other thing you did not mention, was your low air alarm/light going off when all the problems happened? This alarm should be going off when air pressure drops to around 60-70 lbs so you know to get off the road, because as you know the parking/emergency brakes are going to come on real soon. It should be on when you start the coach if the air is down, if not you may want to look into that real soon, so you don't have another near heart failure.
I believe my air dryer to be fine since it is only 3 years old with not more than 5000 miles on it. I do believe that my belts are slipping and will be tightening them today I hope. I checked the belts last night and the condition looks great...like new and did not see any glazing or discolor. This low air alarm has my attention though. My coach is most always out of or very low on air due to setting for periods of time and I have never ever heard an alarm or seen a lithg of any kind to let me know this. Does someone know where I can find such an animal on my 91' 280? Perhaps Don Hay with your 92' or really anyone with that knowledge.
Well, back at it today. One day it's fine...the next I have a list of 20 things to inspect, adjust, replace and repair. Thanks guys :)
Just want to second the comment by Bruce. As the belts loosen, they will start to slip when heavily loaded like in the morning when the batteries are down or each time the compressor cycles, etc. When they slip, they create heat from the friction. This in turn causes the rubber to change composition and get a hard, shiny, smooth surface which slips further, causing the belt to stretch even more. With strong glasses on, you may be able to see tiny cracks starting to develop. No, it's not time to drop your cable and get DirectTV :D but to order up a new set of belts. Moisture from the rain on a already slippery belt may have caused your incident.
With a "V" belt, you should be able to just turn the belt 90 degrees with your fingers after tightening. I check a new belt again after a few days and then every long trip as an air loss in a vehicle this size can be dangerous.
Another thing for everyone to check is your air pressure before you head down steep grades. Does not take much imagination to picture an RV part way down a series of switchbacks, low air pressure, warm brakes and then the parking brake automatically comes on but since the brakes are warm and the grade is steep, they don't do much.
I just take a quick glance at the pressure gauge at the same time I push the Jake switch.
Pierce
Thanks, I should have thought to look at Barry's site. Dick
Carl:
I went through most of these posts rather fast, but don't remember seeing any mention about the audible alarm going off before most of the air pressure was lost. If yours is not functioning it should be repaired. Many folks don't bother to have them repaired and parts may be expensive or not available on some of the older models. Mine had been deactivated before purchase, because the TV up switch was causing it to alarm all the time. The volume was turned down and a piece of tape placed over the sounder to silence it as much as possible. It really shouldn't pass inspection if that feature does not work. It should alarm at about 80 psi and below, so that you have enough time to stop before all air pressure is lost. On my coach it also alarms for other things like low oil pressure, turn signals, TV antenna up, etc.
Jerry, I sent an email to FT and asked them where mine would be located and have not heard back from them yet. no it did not go off and has not ever so that tells me it's most likely been deactivated as was yours. It would have been nice to have been prepared for the air loss event before it just went bye bye. Hope to hear something from someone on the forum or from FT sometime soon as it WILL be 100% replaced atcivated.
Thanks
Don't wait for an email from FT. Just call James Triana. You will get a much more prompt response.
James emailed me and said that the "alarm" is on my light bar on the dash. He referred me to a "diagram B-???" Don't have the actual number on me right now and I thought it was an attachment on the email. It was not, it was a reference to a diagram in the owners manual....as it turned out I only have the "A" list. How convenient :)
He did say that they have none of them available but it was the second light over from the right side of the light bar. I DO see a "light" that shows AIR something...pressure I think it said.
BUT...THAT'S IT!!! It was on while I started the coach and it does go out when pressure rises but there is not an actual audible sounding alarm. Does anyone think there used to be or could it have been only light? A sound would be a little annoying BUT very handy when your just driving along minding your own business and the air pressure drops.
Thoughts?
Carl,
Look for a sounder/speaker attached to that light bar. It's shared by all the important alarms so it won't just be on the air pressure light. Here's a thread that may help (although it's for a later year)
A few hundred more miles - a few more questions... (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10352.msg48236#msg48236)
Michelle
Thanks Michelle, I'll go back and finish tightening belts and check this out later. I really appreciate you, Steve and every single member of this furum. You all are a great and amazing group of people and I am blessed to be a small part :)
Carl,
We have different vehicles and I can only tell you where my alarm is located. It is on the back side of the light bar on the right side looking forward. I know there are different versions of the light bar even though what the driver sees looks the same. The sounder is rather small about 1/2 to 3/4 inch in diameter and about that tall. Has a black plastic cap with some slits or holes. The volume control is next to the sounder, also very small but can be turned with fingers or a screwdriver. If it is just the sounder or volume control, that should be replaceable by someone who can work on printed circuit boards. If it is something else like an intergrated circuit then it's more difficult to repair. If the light works, it might be just the sounder or volume control. Will be a chore just to remove it from the instrument panel. Vehicles with air brakes have had low pressure alarms almost from the beginning of their use. Not always an audible alarm, but an arm that dropped down in the drivers line of view. There is probably a simple air pressure switch that will trigger an alarm on the market. You might need 2, one for each set of brakes, plumb them into the system and connect to a different alarm. And all wired through the ignition switch. That's just as a last resort in case the original can not be repaired.
The main belts that are very troublesome on the 3208 are the 2 belts that are closest to the engine. They are very short, but transfer the power from the crankshaft to the pully that has the belts for the altenator and the air compressor. Give me a call and I can give you an easy way to tighten them as they must be tight or else you will get the squealing noise you described especially when the compressor is making air and the altenator is charging hard. My number is 813-215-3463 Will be glad to walk you through this as I have replaced many belts on 3208 cats in foretravels Ron
Ron, actually those two belts were already tight enough.....I think. They were tighter than any of the others and I didn't have to mess with them. My front A/C don't work and I was really tempted to cut and remove the A/C belt....but since its just like new I spared it for now.
As for the air alarm....I got to snooping under the dash panel and found a little deal that looks to be like a tiny speaker with some type of turning knob. I turned the knob in the only direction it would allow in hopes that it was all the way down. as luck would have it I had full air pressure at this time and so it wouldn't do anything right then.
More tomorrow.
Carl,
On my '92 U-280 the alarm is behind the dash panel immediately in front of the speedometer. It's only about an inch in diameter, a flat disc. On mine there is a slot in the center. Supposedly you can use a slotted screw driver to increase or decrease the volume. However on mine it's either full on or full off, hard to get the volume in moderation. As others have mentioned it is the alarm for oil, air pressure, engine temp, antenna up, etc. If you have no alarm for any of those parameters, that's not good. I suspect there is one; it's either broken or turned off.
I haven't found the volume control for our alarm. A piece of blue painters' tape over the face of the noisemaker works well to adjust the volume. Move the tape to adjust the volume. I leave it loud enough to hear over the noise of wind, engines, fans, etc., in noisy conditions.
Sometimes the alarm is annoying, but most of the time it is appropriately "alarming" and serves a useful purpose. We refer to it as the "geezer alarm." It sounds with turn signals, hazard lights, HWH in level mode while ignition switch is on, low air pressure, and other "odd" modes.
Odd enough....I have an annoying BEEPER that sounds when the blinkers are going. One thing is for sure...you remember to shut them off after making a turn. Other than that one and only audible alarm, I have never heard another for any of the above mentioned systems.
Heading out now boys and girls.
Carl,
Ditto Don Hay. On my U300 I recently purchased the beeper was turned off and did not sound. Under the great advice of other forum members, I raised the dash and behind the speedometer there it was ! It is small and round and you will see the adjustment screw.
With the antenna up, I used a small screwdriver and started turning the adjustment screw slowly until a heard a chirp and then it started beeping loudly. Be sure to have your ignition on to activate it. I'm glad mine works now because I don't want to leave with the antenna up and especially the other warnings (oil, air pressure, etc)! It also reminds me to turn the turn the leveling system off and make sure the green traveling mode light is on. :)
All I can say is I must have an experiment coach, lol!! I turned the key today and started the coach. I turned on the blinker because I knew that there was a beeper that would sound. Since yesterday when I was messing with "my special" device that is very different than all the others, I must have turned it down. So, with my thumb and index finger I turned the knob and up can the blinker beeping sound. My air pressure was at about 40-50 and there was no beeping once I turned off the blinker, ...still no alarm and now I do know where that controller is, unless there is another? I will look again for something that is described as all of you mention. I'll get a pic of mine and post it later.
BREAKING NEWS! or should I say BRAKING NEWS.
This is amazing. I MAY have found the reason for sudden air loss coming home from Chicago the other day although it makes no sense what so ever...at least to me.
Ya'll knew our drive was 6+ hours and everything was great. Leaving after boondocking for 2 days and 15 minutes down the highway returning home, temps rose, air dropped and I freaked. After pulling over, checking things out, finding nothing and driving 6 hours back home, I have had no real answers that were obvious.....until now, I think.
The engine has started many many times today and after cleaning things up from under and around the coach I was ready to take her for a drive. I was going to leave the bed lifted and supported so I could really hear if there was any strange noises or squeaky belts. Since we've owned the coach the passanger side rear air brake has been a little sticky when I release the parking brake. I got in, started it , let the air raise and released the brake. Stuck. Pumped the peddle brake which usually us sticks it. Nothing. Pump, pull, push parking. Nothing. I did this for a while until I noticed that the air was really taking a while to build pressure. I got out and at the rear was a loud hiss. I shut off the engine and it was gone. FRUSTRATED!! I got back in, raised the coach, got back out my pipes and put them in place so I could lower the coach for inspection. I tried to release the parking brake again and noticed that the air for brakes really dropped. So, I left the button in ( brakes off ) and shut off the engine. When I got to the rear the hissing was crazy. I went back and set the parking brake and the hiss went away. Now I was beyond frustrated and it showed, lol. I released the brake again and crawled under.
There is about a 3' section of air hose that comes off what I will refer to as a regulator box or junction box. A line goes to it and then 2 lines come off and one goes to each rear brake. I found the leak....then thought I found another leak right next to it. Then it appeared to be leaking at the connection to that box. I got out my trusty spray bottle, started the engine again to build pressure and went back under. Guess what? It was almost not leaking at all...no kidding!! I got back in and set and released the brake again...this time it was really leaking so I climbed under and started spraying the hose. ABOUT 6 INCHES OF HOSE WAS FOAMING LIKE MAD!!! It was just like a soaker hose in the garden. I wiped it off and got a flashlight. It looks to be dry rotted as it has several tiny dry cracks in that section.
I can only think that it was a God thing that brought us home. I don't understand how it can leak and not leak, hold pressure and then not hold pressure. I have been knowing that my neighbor is going to help me do a thorough brake job and now we will be adding LOTS OF HOSE to that project. This has blown my mind ( and it was a pretty small explosion )
Thoughts?
I had a brake hose blow last year - as soon as you hit the brakes pressure would drop like a rock. Let off the brakes and it would come back. I thought a pancake had gone bad.
Worst, it happened coming INTO Atlanta, during rush hour (and I have a jake). I had to drive it through. Exciting, at times...
Well, that is great news. You found the issue. I would look at all the other lines as well. If one is that bad I am sure others will have an issue soon.
Also - the hoses are standard, and cheap... Measure what lengths you need and pick them up...
Sounds like a good procedure would be to have someone apply the foot/service brake while another uses the soap/water sprayer on the brake lines. Good going Carl as this could be easily missed. A lot of our coaches are getting along in years so this was an experience we all can profit from. Probably would not want Dave's experience heading downgrade.
Think I will forgo the small sprayer and get my 2 1/2 gallon weed sprayer ready.
Thanks again Carl!
Pierce
I carry a small assortment of plugs and caps for these occasions. As our coach's age just like us they need a band aid now and then to get em home. If you look at the air schematics in the owners manual you can pretty much tell what sizes you need about 5 caps and 5 plugs and a roll of trusty duct tape. You may of found your air leak, but what about engine temp going up?
I really don't know that to think, I keep a close eye on all my gauges and since it went up only 20 degree's from the normal 180 to 200....is that a lot or not an issue to worry about? It would have gone a lot further. I do know that the 2 belts that secure the fan and crank are and were tight. I don't know for sure.
Suspect that if your air pressure dropped enough to allow the parking brake to come on with the loss of power you described, the temp increase may have been from the extra work (HP) required of the engine. Also, any extra work the transmission has to do when not in lockup results in higher internal temps that find their way to the engine via the transmission cooler interface with engine coolant.
Pierce
Carl,
I am curious about your brake lines; what kind of material are they? I think all our air lines are some sort of hard plastic type stuff without any covering. I don't know what the material is, but am curious is it is different.
Dick
Dick, all my long air lines are about a 1/4" - 3/8" hard black plastic, but the lines goingto my braks canisters ...the one that's leaking is a good 1" and is more of a black rubber.