Can a 50 amp RV plug-in be installed by rewiring and utilizing the existing wiring of a standard 2 plug 110 ac outlet? Are there any problems with utilizing a 30 amp hook up for storage with minimum electrical usage(lights and one a/c)?
Thanks, Mike
Oh no! Even if you're the only one that's ever going to use the plug, it's not a good idea. Electrical codes may vary from state to state, but the ratings for the wires for a 50 amp vs 30 amp vs 20 amp are all different. A failure can spell disater property-wise.
Please invest in the correct installation for everyone's safety. What's a life worth? Or even a garage?
Peter
Geez, For a proper hookup you will need 6ga wire, 4 cables, meaning one for each side of the 120, a neutral and a ground.
Getting that from your 120 Volt 15 amp outlet AINT GONNA HAPPEN.
Like Peter mentioned, fire and safety need some thought.
Mike,
Short answer, no. As Peter and Dave M. mentioned, 50 amp requires a lower number/bigger diameter wire gauge. 50 amp service is actually 2 legs each having 50 amp capacity, different phases, then the shared neutral and ground. The wiring of a 15 amp circuit will be woefully undersized - you will need to run new wire and install the right breaker.
Here's a great resource
RV Electric (http://www.myrv.us/electric/)
One can run a 50 amp coach on 30 amp using an approved adapter if you power manage - use just one high-current device at a time (like one A/C OR the water heater on electric OR a coffee maker, etc.). BE SURE it's a 120V 30 amp connection and NOT a 240V 30 amp connection (the latter being common for some electric cooking, clothes dryers, etc.) They are NOT the same service nor receptacle and you will toast your electronics plugging into the wrong one. Again, though, you will need to run new wire from a new, single 120V 30 amp breaker.
Michelle
Mike,
Two separate questions:
1. No, a common 15 amp 120 VAC outlet can not be "converted" to 50 amp service.
2. But, you can use a 15 male to 30 amp female adapter and a 30 amp male to 50 amp female adapter to allow you to plug your coach into a regular house outlet. That will allow you to keep battery charger on (be sure it is properly programmed and power share/power save activated-- this limits how many amps of 120 VAC can be used to charge the batteries). the single hot in the 15 and 30 amp is tied to both hots on the 50 amp side to allow you to use appliances on both hot legs (of course only up to the 15 amps provided by the house breaker and wiring).
Mine has been plugged in just like that all the time while in storage.
Brett
Yea, after I posted the question I did some research and kind of figured out the 50 amp was going to have to be wired separately through my sub-service box in my barn.
I did however find a box that plugs into two 110 ac outlets that has a 30 amp female receptacle. I had used one of these in the past with my Trek without any problems. Do you see any problems with using one of those?
Mike
If you are talkng about an adapter box that has 50a 240v receptical with two pig tails, 1 30a 120v and the other 15A 120V. They will not work if the the power box you plug into has a gfi plug for the 110v since it should trip the gfi if the gfi is not bad or was miss wired. A lot of the old gfi when they would fail they would keep on working. A number of years ago they were made so if they failed they would stop working.
Get some help from an electrician. Make sure the electrician understands RV wiring. The link Michelle supplied is a good resource. If the adapter or outlet is not wired properly for RV use, it could fry your wiring or appliances.
Yes, you can run a few things in your coach from a regular household outlet if you have a PROPER ADAPTER. You will be very limited in what you can operate. You can operate more stuff from a PROPERLY WIRED 30A outlet with a PROPER ADAPTER. You may be able to run one air conditioner. For full use of the systems, and for the safest system, install a proper 50A outlet specifically set up for an RV hookup.
If the wiring is not right, it won't work well and can damage your appliances.
When you need a 50 amp pedestal and you don't have one, you start looking for a cheap way to build one.
When you start looking for a cheap way to build one, you start buying the wrong things.
When you buy the wrong things, you can ruin your RV.
When you ruin your RV, your wife may leave you and your dog won't talk to you anymore.
Please don't make your dog not talk to you anymore... get a qualified electrician :)
If this is just for storage or even for use without a/c, just go with an adapter. 15 Amps is more than enough.
Steve B, that is a good answer, we both laughed at it. Ruth said it was cute!!
John H
Yup, been there, done that. No problems.
Actually, my semi-permanent setup is a circuit powered through a 20A breaker, ending at a 20A rated twist-lock receptacle (no more suprise unpluggings). My extension cord is also rated at 20+ A, with a 30A RV receptacle at the RV end. Then a 30A-50A adapter to the RV cord. This gets me by very nicely. I can evel run one a/c unit as long as the electric to the water heater is turned off and the charger is dialed back.
If you are plugged in to 15A or 20A service and plan to use air conditioners, furnaces, etc. then you would be well advised to keep your connection cord as short as possible; preferably just as long as needed and no longer. If the cord is longer than you need do not coil it up like you would a rope so it lays one layer on top of another. This will amplify any heat generated by the resistance of the cord and you could start a fire.
Craig
Well I sure wish I had been able to read a thread like this last week. I had stopped at the window tint shop, and we discussed powering up the coach and having AC for the guys working inside. We looked and found a old compressor plug, and so someone tripped breakers and I installed a spare 30 amp RV plug. Tested and found, 120, 120 and 240 across the top, and did not realize what that meant. Sure do now after reading the posted link about RV wall plug wiring. I had assumed 30 amp should look like 50 amp. Well about a nano second after plugging in my 30 amp wall cord plugged into a 30 to 50 coach cord, I head really bad things inside the coach.
I kicked the coach breaker on the converter, one nice IOTA 75 amp unit. Dead, in a flash! I have called the tint company, and now sent them a link to the correct wiring that needs to be done. I am still hopeful that the converter is the only thing I killed last week.
Now just why is the converter installed 7' inside the deadend storage bay? And I now have ridden the drawer storage slide in and out too many times. And why would the new 120 volt cord have one vertical and one horizontal spade? I had to borrow one of the many duplex outlets in the shop to install on the back side of the step wall. What fun working 7' in, with hands above your head, laying on a shoulder, at just the wrong focal length for glasses or no glasses.
Dave, did your microwave bite the dust with that spike, also?
20 amp/120V plugs have one vertical, one horizontal, and the ground pin. That's to keep you from plugging a 20 amp appliance into a 15 amp circuit.
-M
Ernie,
The mircowave clock works, but we have not tried it to heat anything, have my fingers crossed.
M,
Thanks for that info. I was amazed to see the 20 amp plug end on my new converter as I got to the end of the 7' dead end in the bay. Went to plan B, and bought a set of plugs and made an 8" extension cord. Then found out I had a 30 amp female 240 end on in my hand, where the horizontal and vertical spades are reversed sides, and in strong light I could read the small print. Went to plan C and was going to swap converter cords, but the new unit was pop riveted together, not screwed like the IOTA case. Moved to plan D and went back and tried to get the correct cord end, but not in stock in the country store. Plan E was to install a duplex from the shop wall plugs. Bought a rough in box, like the half dozen, 40 miles away at home, and installed it on the step wall, with a new cover, since the Foretravel plug is a complete unit, making it's own finished box.
Guess I need to try everything 120 tomorrow and make a list of what I killed. And I have lots of new knowledge, and printed info from the great link posted by you.
This is the unit I have in mind. Any comments?
Okay Steve...You're watching too much TV...:-)
What I see will put an outlet configured for 30 amps on a 15 amp circuit if the duplex outlets are wired as most are. You can plug in, but it is a 15 amp supply and should have a 15 amp breaker on the circuit. If the 15 amp outlets happen to be wired separately (not likely) good or bad things can happen.
The adapter will probably supply 15 amps at 120 VAC to your coach if you have a proper adapter to get from the 30 amp outlet to the 50 amp plug. Get some help from someone who can measure the circuits and verify that what you plan to do is safe and effective for the purpose.
As stated before, "Please don't make your dog to stop talking to you." ;D
Michelle,
What you have descripted is a 20 amp, 240 volt plug. The 15 amp and 20 amp 120 volt plug are indentical. Most 120 volt circuits are wired with 12 awg wire suitable for 20 amps since this is required in kitchen and other locations where there are heavy appliance loads.
Jerry
Since I'm in the process of wiring the shop/apartment I have become familiar with the "20A" receptacles which I've used everywhere I need an AC plug-in. Here is an image of one.
Craig
Yetch,
what you have is an adapter for a 30 amp plug into a 15 or 20 amp duplex 120 volt receptable. It is suitable for storage load but very little more than that. 98% of the time this would be safe, but duplex receplables can be made dead ends for two different circuits simply by removing the tab between the load (hot) terminals. If this is the case, your adapter will short and trip both circuit breakers.
Jerry
Craig,
You are correct.. That is a 20 amp that can be used for 120 volts or 240 volts. The plug that Michelle described can be plugged into this receptable. If wired for 240 volts it would be used for the larger window air conditioning units. I would caution against using this for 120 volts circuits unless the receptables wired for 240 volts ( if any )are identified as such.
Jerry
Jerry,
I've seen them done differently on appliances and "commercial" extension cords. Our espresso machine, for example:
(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chriscoffee.com%2Fimages%2F1115%2F150x107%2F1520ampplugs.jpg%3FPopup%3D1&hash=900ada510f5d964da84317d889bc6776" rel="cached" data-hash="900ada510f5d964da84317d889bc6776" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.chriscoffee.com/images/1115/150x107/1520ampplugs.jpg?Popup=1)
Michelle
Michelle... those are compatible with the receptacle I posted. I have no 240vac receptacles wired in that configuration in my shop... right now the only 240v is the air compressor (hard wired) and the 50A outdoor unit for the motor home.
Using Google and checking images I've come to the conclusion that simply plugging in to an outlet can be seriously damaging to whatever you are hoping to power. Some outlets are routinely used for different voltages and you cannot rely on one particular configuration to be sure that it's what you need.
I wired a standard 50A outlet to the outside wall of my shop and I'm glad I did. If I need to work in the coach when it's too hot to think I can just fire up the air conditioners and not worry about it.
But I do have a 30A power cord that I have not had to use yet and I'm glad I read this thread so I can make sure I get what I think I am getting when I use it.
Craig
It seems like you are dead set on doing something your way in an apparent attempt to save a few pennies, despite all the good advise from others. So go ahead and give it a try, maybe you will learn something in the process. Looks like something one would find at Big Lots. It's an adapter, you won't get 30 amps out of a 15 amp receptacle even if you plug into both places on a duplex outlet, but I'm sure that many believe that to be the case. Or are you just yanking everyone's chain and having a private joke.
Jerry,
Actually, not sure that "adapter" isn't a good idea. As you say, you will still only get 15 amps, but it will address one of the weak points in just plugging into a single 15 amp socket-- the surface area of the prongs in a 15 amp plug are really marginal for draws close to 15 amps. It is common to experience heat at that connection.
The "adapter" doubles the surface area. Does nothing for the total amps available, but may be superior to just a "regular" 15 amp male to 30 amp female.
Brett