So I finished working on my shed preparing for a new 50 amp service for our coach and for no particular reason opened the radiator grill panel. I was quite shocked by what I found under the radiator. I have no idea what it was, but it is now a big pile of gooey wet rubbery stuff. So I took some pics and stuck the camera in where I can't get an eyeball and found more "stuff". The paper towels etc. that were on top I managed to reach in and pull out
So hopefully this is a foreign object and not a disintegrated part of the FT and I guess now I need to know how to clean it out. Any suggestion?
.
Wonder if it is the sound insulation coming apart-- like disintegrating foam. Look at the ceiling and walls in that compartment.
Brett
Brett, I took a look and there is nothing that appears to be of the same material in that area. The "stuff" is concentrated around the hose running to the rear and up between the engine radiator and the outer one.
I am wondering if some kind of leakage at that pipe may be causing the buildup. It's a lot of stuff though and it does smell and feel like a rubber type substance.
Dean, That is a mystery, I am with Brett, Is it insulation that has fallen down ? Or, Long shot is it debris left over from assembly of the coach. How about old critter nest ?
I would start with a bath of simple green or similar and then see what is left, It may disintegrate with water, don't use a pressure washer, radiator fins can be damaged.
Keep digging , I am curious now.
Gary B
Steve says to be sure to use the aluminum-approved Simple Green if you do this. Regular Simple Green is not and would probably not be good for the radiator.
-M
Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.simplegreen.com/solutions_faqs.php?search_query=aluminum)
Extreme Simple Green (http://industrial.simplegreen.com/ind_products_extreme.php)
Brett
Dean,
Although there are some stones in one of the pictures that may point to road debris, several others look like the disintegrating foam from the insulation, as Brett suggested. I recently replaced all of my insulation and yours looked a lot what I found. However mine was about 17 years old. Yours is much newer. As Gary B. mentioned, Simple Green sprayed on, let it set for 15 minutes or so, then rinse off with the water hose, should work for you. It does for me.
The more I look at this the more I don't believe it's road debris. It appears to be consistant of a finely ground up rubber and is wet. Does anyone know what the pipe is that is going to what appears to be the Hydraulic Fan cooler? Is it feeding that? What liquid is running through it.
I really do not believe it's insulation. How would it get sucked in from the inside to between the radiators? The closure surounding the radiator area looks tight And there is no sign of degrading insulation. The rest of the radiator is clean, including the engine side and it is definately concentrated to this rear pipe area.
I will pick up the Extreme Simple Green tommorow if I can find it and give it a bath and keep an eye on the area. Like I said i still think that pipe may have a slight leak and is attracting the junk. I am assuming at this point that there is hydraulic fluid in that line.
Does it look at all like this?:
Partially plugged cooling core (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10447.0)
If so, maybe Dick can shed some light on what he found.
Getting warmer.........Except it's the middle radiator and at the bottom rear. But I can see how the road debris is sticking to the leak area in Dick's pic. Very similer looking to my issue as shown in first post.
Doesn't appear to be availabe at retail stores. etc. I thought maybe NAPA would carry it. Has anyone safely used Dawn dish det. for something like this?
List shows Grangiers and Fastenal might carry the products. Both have stores nationwide.
I have now learned Simple Green is not so simple, and have dozens of products solutions.
On our coach the radiator / intercooler is surrounded by separate pieces of conveyer-belt type material that act as shroud to direct outside air being pulled through radiator from radiator hydraulic fan motors.
Conveyer belt material is probably made of different rubber compositions and maybe some petroleum based material got to the conveyer belt material and started to disintegrate it. Or it just started to fall apart on its own. Maybe the coach had or has a hydraulic fluid leak or spill during some past maintenance.
Talking about the Foretravel shroud, one very important way to improve engine cooling is to seal all the gaps in the conveyer belt material, some quite large, to prevent warm air from engine area from being recycled into radiator fans. We used spray foam to fill holes, forcing all air being pulled from radiator fan to only come from through the outside grill.
It is also a good idea to put a piece of hardware cloth behind outside slats to prevent grass, leaves, twigs, rags, etc from being sucked into intercooler..
Hope you can find what the 'stuff' is and where it came from. Could it have been there for a long time? Have you ever looked at the area before?
Yep Dave, I just learned the same thing. I am going by Grangiers tomorrow so I will see what they have. What's strange is Simple Greens website does not seem to list the Aircraft approved stuff. I was also reading an aircraft forum today and members were
not recommending the Simple Green stuff for cleaning fuselage.
Like you said, not so simple.......
I took a pretty good look at the radiator enclosure and the material appears to be clean and in very good condition. I agree on the hardware cloth and sealing any voids etc. I had seen your prior posts on this. Good advice.
I had looked at the area during the buying process but I must have just plain missed it. This coach had been stored indoors it's entire life so everything underneath and in the engine compartment is very clean and rust free etc. Very easy to spot a leak or degraded material.
I still suspect that middle radiator hose that I think is the Hydraulic fan cooler. One thing is for sure, I will find the source. Just depends on how much time and effort will be involved on how long it will take. :-(
As I posted above-- Simple Green for aircraft/aluminum on their website:
Extreme Simple Green (http://industrial.simplegreen.com/ind_products_extreme.php)
Found the best price for this online at Skygeek. $17.99 gal. About $10.00 gal cheaper than most suppliers. Ordered 2.
I'm Glad this subject was discussed. I acquired a spray bottle of Greased Lightening, It worked so well on my lawnmower that I was going to use it to clean the condenser on my dash air. However... when I read the cautions it is apparently tough on aluminum. Guess I'll go back to Simple Green.
When all else fails RTFI
Gary B
Gary,
Try this stuff for the condensor:
Air Conditioner Coil Foaming Cleaner-AC-920 at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100599017&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=100599017&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D29X-_-100599017)
Keith
So I got to number 5 on my Foretravel to do list which is the mystery gunk under the radiator. I mixed Simple Green Extreme & water 50/50 in my one gal. garden sprayer and soaked the radiator and the gunk around the hyd. hose connection with it. Then rinsed and repeated until gunk was gone.
It became quickly apparent that the "gunk" was the radiator belting under the hyd. hose connection. I believe the connection has a slow leak and the hydralic fluid was eating the belting. I can actually stick my finger into the belting and it feels like it's soft and melted.
As soon as everything drys out I will fire up the engine and see if I can see the leak. Hopefully it's as simple as tightening the connection because I hate to think about pulling that CAC out. BTW, Simple Green Extreme is my new best friend. ^.^d
Dean
I have to revise my melted belting diagnosis. ::) I took a flat blade screwdriver and started scraping the soft material out and the belting below is fine. So it has to be a peice of foam rubber or something else that got sucked in around the fitting and disintergrated. The belting does look like it got very hot under the hose connection. I still think there may be a leak there but am hoping for the best.
I will just keep an eye on it for now.
Dean
Keith, I used that Condenser cleaner and it did a super job, Now the DW has me looking at the Home AC, when it cools off I will LOOK harder.
Gary B
The most important info from this thread is Rinse, Rinse, Rinse anything you use on aluminium surfaces. In fact, rinsing is the key to longevity of any surface that has been chemically cleaned or treated.
Rinse I did Kent. It was a beautiful afternoon here so standing there with the hose spraying out the radiator was kind of fun compared to some of the other coach projects I tackled this week. Flushed it out until the water ran clear and then some.
I read the instructions carefully but was tempted to try it straight without dilution because of the mess I was trying to clean up. Glad I didn't. The 50/50 mix was perfect.
My radiator is clean as a whistle now.
Simple Green Extreme is a great product. Safe for use on aircraft engines and fuselage and it cuts dirt and grease wonderfully. Thanks to all that recommended it.
Dean
Could the mess be tire rubber? We all buy new tires and replace them when they get old. All of that rubber left on the road goes somewhere - why wouldn't some of it get sucked up into the radiator and CAC?
Matt B
It very well could be matt. Or a combination of rubber and other stuff. It had a rubber like texture but also looked like some type of disintegrated foam. I ran the engine for a while today to see if that fitting had a leak but thankfully saw none. I did notice that it gets quite hot though. That may be why the stuff was all melted around the fitting.
I also pulled out a baggy and paper towels.
I know some folks have added hardware cloth to the backside of the radiator door panel. I think i may do that as well. Have to look into the best way to attach it though.
Dean
Actually it is quite easy to "frame" around the CAC and rad area with the belting Like Barry mentioned. After I did my CAC repair etc I did just that and posted some pics of it but can take some more if you want. I screwed it all together with aluminum corner plates and self tappers so the 2 side and bottom became as one continuos piece and no hot air can come from engine compartment only from thru the grille. Simple and not hard to do.
John h
John, the belting around the radiator is in great shape and is fairly tight. I do intend to seal the corners and gaps a little better with expanding foam as Barry had done. My radiator grille is hinged so I need to look at how I am going to attach the 1/4 inch screen to the backside of it. Maybe zip ties or something. While I am at it I think I will put some on the fridge vents etc. for pest control.
Dean