Since we left Nac last week we've been discussing what we learned and where do we go from here. We're both agreed that we like Foretravels and it looks like a U300 is our first choice for a full-time coach. Haven't settled on length or floor plan yet, or year for that matter.
Here's the question: I've never owned a diesel engine, and have driven one exactly once, about 10 years ago when I helped a former neighbor move. I have driven conventional school buses, stick shift no less, but that was prior to 1998. I've never driven anything with air brakes. Am I crazy to think about getting behind the wheel of a Foretravel? I'm assuming that I'll get at least a bit of dual prior to taking the coach out on my own.
I should mention that I do some of my own mechanical work (oil changes, disc brake pads, etc.) but I also know the limits of my ability, my tools, and my patience. I've remodeled houses, but my carpentry skills don't even begin to measure up to Ernie Ekberg.
So, am I nuts or normal? Okay, maybe I'd better rephrase that, since I've never claimed to be sane. Am I any crazier than any other first-time Foretravel owner?
We bought a FT, our first big diesel, about a year a half ago. You will be fine. Buy a big socket set, a big wrench set, and pack some clothes you don't mind ruining in five minutes. You will be surprised that big does not mean spacious - a lot of that stuff is real tight in there.
Years ago, a friend, a trained mechanic, helped me replace the intake gaskets on a 4.0 Aerostar. Everything was under the dash. He taught me to close my eyes when I can't see what I am doing. He taught me to memorize bolt locations from the manual. He taught me to think a little before I jumped in. Sage advice all.
O our coach, I have replaced a water pump, changed oil and trans fluids, repaired the Pac-brake, and done lots of other stuff I never even knew about. You will be scare and feel overwhelmed at times, but it will all work out. Mechanics are well-trained, but they are typically not genius - they are like the rest of us. If they can do a job in 1.5 flat-rate hours, we can do it in three!
Matt B
I took my first turn at the wheel in a Class A DP on a busy freeway in Houston. It was a 37' coach that required "herding" down the road. I did OK. Marilyn did OK. We had a lot of "white knuckle" experiences. We had a lot of fun and some adventures.
You will do fine. You've put in way more research, thought, and inspection than we did. We've been making part time use of DP coaches for almost three years and are doing OK. You will probably do even better. Don't worry. You are preparing well. Proceed and enjoy the journey.
Having driven (herded) the SOB a few thousand miles, we appreciate the better qualities of the FT. Our SOB coach was a '97 model and cost about $125K new. Our FT is a '97 model and cost about $260K new. In this case, for double the money you got a better coach. The prices for the used coaches a couple of years ago were still in about the same ratio. For double the money, we got a much better coach. In a '90s vintage coach, double the money is often not a deal breaker.
Hey most of us are mentally challenged (LOL), and have been through the school of hard knocks.
I certainly am not a mechanic. I do some of the stuff on my motorhome. I have changed disc brakes, calipers, and wheel bearings (SOB). I had a friend guide me through it. I can do a similar amount of stuff to mine that you mentioned. I have changed out refrigerators, water pumps, lights, oil changes, alternator, and other small stuff. Can't really do much engine or transmission work though.
The driving of the motorhome is not that bad. I have two things I like to keep in mind when driving. 1. try to never back up, and 2. watch your turns, they will be wide. I also will mention, remember this is a house that is on wheels. You will need to stop this bad boy and maintain the distance between vehicles, speed, etc to be on the safe side.
One of the hard knocks for me was buying extra tires for my motorhome as I was not as diligent at checking air pressure on the tires. It is now on my must do checklist before I take off in it. I have to buy tires now only because they have worn out or expired with regard to time. You are much more diligent in your research than I was before I jumped in.
These FT are a lot of fun and well made too which you should find a lot of satisfaction. Good Luck.
Well to add to these other remarks I too had never driven a Diesel MoHo before getting our first 93 GV. I bought it without driving and immediatly drove it on the Interstate home. The present one, my first drive (real) was to bring it from Costa Mesa (last owner) here which is around 1400 miles and that gave me a chance to get used to it and see what it could do. I was into mechanics years ago but since breaking my spine in 76 I have trouble doing many things but I dive in and try to save some money (and learn) rather than take it to a shop. Getting under it is the tough part for me but I read this forum a LOT and learn from it and Barries website. I do not do Facebook or Twitter, I do "Foreforums".
You have already done some checking around, like I did for 3 yrs after seeing the first FT in Yuma and knowing that this is the one for me. My recommendation for peace of mind would be to consider Bretts (unless you want a newer one) as he has surely the best maintained coach of all.
Jump in and buy one then enjoy the fact that "you may hold the wrench but there are dozens here on the forum that can tell you which way to turn it" (figurativly speaking of course).
The view from the pilot seat is much better than your truck.
John H
Thanks for the reality check! We still have a few things to do and decide before we can officially enter the market, but we're getting closer. I'll take another look at Brett's. I think that model is on our list, but it might be a bit above our price range. Jo Ann has the Foretravel notebook right now, and is supposed to be looking at floor plans and amenities.
We have someone who is quite interested in buying our mpg. He hasn't actually been inside it, but has seen pictures and thinks it will be just perfect for him. He's going to come over some time next week and take a look, so between now and then I need to figure out what we want for it.
Driving a Forertavel is the least of your concerns as it practically drives itself...well, when compared to other SOB's. You just need to establish the length and layout for a coach you can live with, as well as the budget you can support in buying the coach as well as maintaining the coach. Again, if you can do most of the diagnostics and repairs yourself, your budget will be a lot lower; however proportional to the coach's age and complexity (e.g. slides, aquahot?). I can say that for my simple 1997 unit over 9 years the approximate cost for maintenance has averaged $4,500. This includes allocation for tires, and other repairs, dings & improvements...no other type expenses. I've done about 20% of the work and improvements needed over that time. The rest has been done by others like Cummins, FOT, etc.
I believe that most will agree that a significant number of full timers prefer a fifth wheel as getting from point A to B is not done very often, and the fact is it is economical with living comfort also very good. If you plan to stay put for extended periods, a diesel coach is really not practical and the most expensive option. On the other hand, if you plan to see the country and travel every couple of weeks, then a DP will be a very good option.
You also have to be in a position to pull the trigger when you find what you need. Otherwise you'll be second guessing until you get frustrated and decide a bricks & sticks wasn't so bad after all.
Good luck with your hunt and decisions.
Thanks, Peter. Yes, we definitely want to travel and see the country. If we wanted to just park ourselves somewhere, we'd look for a place closer to Branson. In fact, that's what we started out doing.
We'll probably average a move every 10 days, with times of 3-4 days of travel and other times of sitting for a month. Most of the time, though, we plan to land, spend a week or two seeing the sights, and then moving on and repeating the process.
We started out looking at 5'ers, and in fact really liked a Big Horn so much that we bought the mpg (another Heartland product) as our "learner." We soon learned that a 5'er that is suitable for full-time living is heavy and requires a heavy truck. We didn't like the idea of such a truck as the daily driver, so we started looking more at motor homes.
Some day I'll write an article about our journey.
Unless you are a good DIYer, resourceful and lucky, an inexpensive purchase can quickly double in cost and not be as nice as a well maintained motorhome with all records and updates. I have not seen Brett's but in reading what upgrades he has done, feel the price is quite reasonable and won't have any nasty surprises for you down the road. I did see Bill Chaplin's 1993 U300, an excellent example of an original Foretravel stored indoors and well maintained. Hard to tell it was not new. Even the decals are perfect. I looked a long time, took a chance buying mine and was lucky. Even then, it does not look anything like Bill's rig.
After almost three years, I am still finding switch locations, telescopic steering wheel, bad generator mounts, etc. Might be good and save $$ to have another owner drive or fly in to take a look for the items that only experience can see.
Sure, it's a buyer's market but a bad economy may also mean poor if any maintenance and personal desperation that will gloss over (or worse) any faults the RV may have.
Pierce
I had the same trepidation with driving a behemoth, a 40ft Foretravel, even after driving a 32ft P30 gas for 10 years. You have already driven vehicles larger than a car, so you are way more experienced than most.
However, a caution, be prepared to make what feels like very wide turns, you will be past the lane you want to turn into before you start the turn or you will rub the rear tires on a curb (I have done this), or worse, you will scrape the side of the coach (I have done this and created a big hole in the 6 foot cargo door). You must drive for the rear of the coach, not for the front.
A friend of mine purchased a 36ft Foretravel about a year ago after he saw my Foretravel. On the fifth day of ownership of his first big rig, he came too close to a building during a right turn and the rear arm of the 20ft patio awning caught the corner of a building, Destroyed the patio awning and a window awning. Replacing awnings and repairing holes took 8 months but was paid for by insurance.
Other folks on this forum have also had similar experiences. A moment of inattention can be costly.
I stay out of curb lanes because they are sloped toward the curb and the top, curbside corner of the motorhome will come very close to poles. People have damaged awnings driving in curb lanes.
Air brakes are not a big deal, when you step on the brake the coach slows down, just like a car but not as fast.
Air pressure is a big deal, the coach cannot be moved until air pressure is at least 90psi, Rear spring brakes (parking brakes) release fully at about 60psi, however, rear airbags will not get to ride height before 90 psi.
Yes, you can safely drive a behemoth with a little attention paid to driving a behemoth. You will be amazed at how wonderful it is to drive a Foretravel on the highway, a car does not campare. I love driving my Foretravel.
We bought a 40' RV without ever doing any driving other than in the parking lot. Scary at 1st - but after some practice, you get used to it quickly. We practiced in a walmart parking lot for a day parking the thing.
If you haven't seen these videos, I recommend you watch them! I made the DW watch one this morning because we're getting ready to leave. There are 7 videos: RV Driver Confidence Course: Part 1 - Better RVing (http://www.betterrving.com/article/rv_tips/rv_driving_course_adjusting_mirrors)
Here's something I was told once: Whenever you start to make a turn, be sure your hip clears the object you want to clear. As I sit in my seat I don't start my turn until my hip is clear of the tree, curb, sign, etc. I got in a hurry once and didn't pay attention - cost me $1,200 in repairs to my basement doors!
^.^d I watched the videos for the first time just a few months ago. I agree with the recommendation to view them.
As others have said, look things over very closely, make sure everything works like it should. Little things can get big in a hurry. If you are not real comfortable, it would be well worth the price for an independent inspection. Also keep your expectations in perspective when looking a 10-20 year old vehicles. It doesn't matter who's coach you are looking at they are not going to be perfect, and there will be issues in the future, as Peter said budget for them. Bought mine from a local custom coach dealer, 1st test drive was on the way home, 6yrs later still love it. Just take it easy until you get comfortable with it. Happy hunting
A quality delivery to someone new to RVing/DP's takes two days, assuming you have a knowledgeable owner/seller or delivery person at a dealership.
No way for a newbie to absorb all they need to know in a day.
Something (thankfully), virtually everyone who has called on our coach has insisted on. And if they hadn't, I would have, so they could continue to take good are of our baby.
Brett
We do intend to take our time in shopping, going for the "best" coach we can find for our budget, and plenty of time for the seller to teach us what we need to own/operate our new coach. We also plan on short driving stages going home.
I read with amazement about someone who read about a coach in Arizona or New Mexico (don't remember which), flew out from somewhere in Texas and drove the coach home - all in one weekend. He needed emergency help with replacing some tires on the way home - couldn't take the time to have them put on before he took off for home. Another person from New York bought a coach in Texas and drove it home. He got as far as St. Louis before the coach's ills made him leave the coach at a repair facility and fly home. In both cases the buyers tried to rush a purchase because they had to be back at work Monday morning.
As teachers, we have certain times of the year when we can have a few days off, and our buying trip will just have to fit in one of those slots. Obviously, the summer is the longest time off, but I'm back at work on Monday, 30 July this year. Just checked Mapquest, and here to Nac is 562 miles. Driving down, we can do it in a day. Figure four days to do the deal, learn the coach, and get any immediate issues taken care of, and two days home means we'll be gone a week. That means summer or Christmas break. Even then, Christmas is iffy. As the organist and choir director, I'd have to make it leaving here the day after Christmas and get home 2 January.
Looks like a summer trip to Nac (again).
We purchased our U300 without even a test drive just outside of Charlotte, NC. Flew back, took delivery, slept in it and drove it the rest of the way to Fayetteville, NC for a quick visit the next morning and then headed to Northern California. Took 7 days for the trip home including visiting a friend in MO and then hitting a couple of National Parks on the way. Broke a couple of hyd. belts but had spares. Good trip. Gaylie was (now retired) also a teacher so we had to get her back to the classroom.
That's how I know it gets 7 mpg at 82 mph for days at a time.
Pierce
As I mentioned in my PM to you, we bought our first diesel motorhome in 2007. We went from a GL1800 Honda motorcycle and a two man pup tent to the 1993, U225. I had never driven a diesel or anything with air brakes before we got our Foretravel. Our first trip was to western Oklahoma where my back went out and Peggy had to drive the coach home without any practice what so ever. She did great and has been driving ever since. Sooo, the answer is "No you are not Crazy". The way one gets experience is by doing. A couple of years later, we went to our 40 foot U300 without ever driving anything bigger than our 36 foot U225. My first drive in a 40 was from Brighton, CO to Mississippi. I have hit only one curb while taking a corner and backed off of the pavement only once in two years.
Regarding being your own mechanic, the first and most important lesson taught me that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" I know this flies in the face of those proponents of preventative maintenance, and second "if it is broke you can't hurt it". I have tackled many mechanical jobs for which I had no experience. If it was complicated, I took photos of each step so I could refer back to them and see where that pesky hose connected or where that wire went. I also used copious amounts of masking tape and a Sharpie to label bolts and their location if it wasn't absolutely clear where they went.
As Matt said, I bought lots of big tools for the diesel. They are now for sale because they are too heavy to carry in the motorhome and if I need the big tools, I need to have a younger mechanic use them, bad back you know.
This motorhome thing is not complicated or really very hard. I actually enjoy driving our 40 footer. When I haven't been behind the wheel in a couple of weeks, I miss it. Relax and Enjoy!!!
Thanks, all, for your words of wisdom. While we're still some distance from making any firm decisions, everything we've seen and read says that we're on the right track.
Yes, I'll have plenty more questions as we narrow things down a bit. I'm thinking that Jo Ann needs to join this forum, too, so that she can ask the questions that concern her. I'll look at the sink and counter arrangement from a dish-washing point of view, since that's my job. She will look at it from a cooking point of view, since that's her job. She's also several inches taller than me, and sometimes that presents differences of opinions.
I used to have a lot of customers amazed at the Rv prices 25 years ago. Obviously not the method of travel for everyone. I am not rich but I think like you want a better product than a few year old SOB. Same as me. So you get to roll the dice. The one I ended up with air suspension would not air up the day of the demo and the engine shook the whole coach trying to start. I still bought it. Fuel line and main chassis air control valve is what what wrong. If it finally started and built pressure and drove great it's fixable.
Too many years fixing these. The horror stories are almost non existent.
Moderation is for monks. Go for it.
Or stay in hotels? Or drive newer cheaper sob's? Sorry I am a foretravel manager and now an owner.
Bob
I saw this one on craigs list dallas. 1991 40 grandvilla foretravel
1991 FORETRAVEL GRANDVILLA - $19990 (MANSFIELD)
40 FT DIESEL PUSHER MOTOR HOME 146K MILES, OSHKOSH CHASSIS, NEW FRONT RUBBER / 75% REAR W / ALCOA WHEELS, 3208 CATERPILLAR 300HP ENGINE W / ENGINE BRAKE, ALLISON MT-647 4 SPEED AUTO TRANSMISSION, CRUSE-CONTROL, FLEX-STEEL CAPTAIN CHAIRS, GRAND VILLA WAS THE TOP OF THE LINE IN 1991. THIS IS A WELL BUILT MOTORHOME WITH LOTS OF OPTIONS, STORAGE GALORE AND HAS BEEN VERY WELL MAINTAINED. CENTRAL VACUUM SYSTEM,NEW REFRIGERATOR/FREEZER, SEPARATE ICE MAKER, TRASH COMPACTOR, 2 NEW ROOF A/C AND TWO NEW PROPANE DUCTED HEATERS WITH BOTH SYSTEMS THERMOSTATICALLY CONTROLLED,PROPANE WATER HEATER AND ENGINE WATER HEATER, TWIN PANEL SOLAR CHARGING SYSTEM, POWER INVERTERS, PROPANE POWERED ONAN EMERALD III GENERATOR SET WITH 782 HRS, AUTO HYDRAULIC LEVELING SYSTEM, MULTIPLE CANVAS AWNINGS,SATELLITE ANTENNA, 3 TVs, QUEEN BED, CEDAR LINED CLOTHES CLOSET, LARGE SHOWER WITH TOILET AND SINK, BUILT IN SHARP CONVECTION MICROWAVE OVEN, PROPANE 4 BURNER STOVE AND OVEN, TABLE AND CHAIRS, SOFA THAT UNFOLDS INTO A BED, RECLINING CHAIR. AND SAFE FOR YOUR VALUABLES
CONTACT DOUG AT 817*938*4577
Location: MANSFIELD
As someone who just jumped into a 40ft U295 I can tell you I couldn't be happier and can't wait to get back on the road after every trip. The quality build of these coaches was apparent the second I set foot in one. (And I almost didn't) The salesman practically had to drag me into the coach to look at it since I was so put off by the outside design.
I had been looking at Fleetwoods for years because they were the ones in my price range and had not even considered used until I started talking to friend who said used was the way to go especially for a first coach.
I have ridden in several different coaches and this one is by far the best riding. As far as driving a large Coach with air brakes, it's not much different from driving the big 36 ft Penske rental trucks which I usually have to drive each year for an event I help produce. Be sure to watch those videos listed above as they are very helpful in adjusting your thinking when driving a Coach. Beyond that you'll be thrilled with how easy these are to drive.
I suspect that the biggest difference I'll notice between a Foretravel and the school bus I used to drive is that when I push a pedal on the Foretravel something will happen that is in line with what I want to happen. On the old bus pushing the gas pedal didn't necessarily mean that the engine would turn faster. At least half the time it meant that the engine would quit. Pushing on the brake pedal didn't always mean it would stop, either. And pushing on the clutch pedal didn't necessarily mean that one could change gears. Glad I don't have to drive that anymore. Oh yes, the Foretravel will actually have a suspension - with devices to keep the detailed feel of each pothole away from the driver's seat.
Jo Ann now has the Foretravel notebook and is studying the information on the various models U280 and above, 1993-1997. Sooner or later she will let me know which floor plans she likes.
IT is always a compromise. Remember you can remodel things you do not like inside and probably will have to do some stuff just due to age.
IT is still one of the best values in the RV motorhome world that still has a manufacturer around.
Just remember, every year was an improvment, with 97 to 99/00 being (arguably) the best.
Dual pane windows and ducted air were huge comfort improvements.
I do most of the driving and my Wife is the navigator. The best thing next to our Foretravel is our hand held radios. A diesel pusher takes some work because of the volume of fluids and the sear size. Watch your mirrors, watch merging traffic and think ahead you will be OK. Gam
2001 brought the ducts all the way to the front.... Huge improvement.
oooh - did not know that one! good to know... Plus the 01 and up dash was a huge improvement.
Presumably each model year was an improvement over the previous one. Our question is going to be "how many of those improvements can we afford" as we look at coaches. We're focusing on the mid-90's. I'll start a new thread with some specific questions.
There may be differences of opinion on what constitutes an "improvement".
The newer coaches are a LOT more complex. Many of us KISS theory guys don't necessarily agree that is an improvement.
I'm with you! Simple is good.
Dave,
Curious what you think is improved on in the 01' dashes? Maybe it is just me, but I love the look of the 99' dash, especially at night with those electro-luminescent borders around the perimiter. Is there beter funtionality on the 01's?
Don
Larger dash with more 'space'. Larger and better positioned AC ducts (no more frozen knees!), more modern design. The electro-luminescent dash could never be modified by adding a switch or a gauge. Too easy to short out.