Good evening folks, We tow a 1989 Jeep Cherokee behind our 1990 G.V. on a car dolly. I always disconnect the rear drive shaft as per the owners manual. A friend of mine that Owen's a towing service told me I was wasting my time disconnecting the drive shaft each time, that 2 down will not harm the transmission or transfer case. I know 4 down Is o.k. by the owners Manuel, but that 2 is not. Has anyone have experience doing this?
Thanks, Mitch Sayer
Mitch,
I read this and was reminded about my experience towing a jeep cherokee. I think mine was a 1991. It was the inline 6 and had an auto transmission. I was told by the shop that it was a mitsubishi transmission that they rebuilt after I had towed it from Texas to Illinois (on tow dolly supposed to be in N). I thought I may have not put it into the neutral position for the 4WD shifter. It ran fine after I got it there for about 100 miles and then went out. It may have been related to the age or other issues. But, I have been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt (in this case transmission rebuild). I had bought the jeep used, had not driven it that much but really did not have an issue that I was aware. I also did not have the original owners manual. Sooo, I did not read the information that you shared. Had I known what you reported, I probably would have done it a little differently. I would recommend that you continue with your present method.
If you can tow four down why use a dolly. I have pulled my wrangler over 300K miles with no issues. I have to put tires on more often and rotate them every oil change but that is all. It is much easier not to deal with the dolly.
Agree with John, I did have another jeep cherokee at one time and did tow it with all 4 down. I did not pull it a lot but never had an issue with all 4 down and 4WD shifter in N.
I had a 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4 WD and towed 4 wheels down, transmission in Park and transfer case in Neutral never had a problem.
Tony
If you do away with the dinghy you will need to add a brake system to the Jeep.
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Do you have a neutral position on your transfer case?
Generally speaking, cars with a transfer case that can be shifted into neutral can be towed 4 wheels down.
And cars with an automatic transmission that do not have a transfer case or do not have a neutral position on the transfer case cannot be towed 4-wheels down. This includes all-wheel drive cars.
Some manual transmission cars can be towed 4 wheels down.
Thanks for the replies, The reason I use the dolly is we tow our youngest daughter's F-150 4 door from Albuquerque to Austin twice a year for school. And before that it was the oldest daughter's VW Rabbit. It has electric surge brakes that work really well and pulls a lot better then my car trailer behind the M.H.
I just wanted to know if my so called friend was blowing smoke about not hurting the Trans or T case with 2 down and not disconnecting the rear drive shaft?
Thanks, Mitch Sayer
Speaking of towing....I was passed by a pickup towing, with a strap, what looked to be a new, or nearly new Honda zipping along at 80 mph or so. I followed them for a while and started noticing smoke and an acrid smell, then smoke boiling out from under the car. After a few miles of this they got stopped alongside the road and then got out to gaze stupidly at their new car on fire. I think it was the tranny that started it....
Most 4X4s (definitely my Tahoe) cannot be towed 2 down even with the transfer case in neutral. You need to determine the make and model of the transfer case and talk to an expert on that model or the the manufacturer of it. Its not a trans issue. I would got to the Jeep forums online to find a resource. Very savvy and generally crazy guys...
I still miss my 79 CJ7 Golden Eagle with the AMC 304 (Carter AFB and Schnieder RV cam, rebuilt by me), factory AC, 2 inch lift and quadratrack. It had FAR more guts than I did! Back in 1988, 12mpg wasn't a big deal. My 9 year old daughter was inconsolable when I traded it for my first Audi.
When we bought the Foretravel, we figured that we could use my '02 Tacoma as a toad. It does gave an auto tranny and a manual shift transfer case.. Turns out there is no way to flat tow it. Remco does not even make or recommend one of their drive shaft disconnects. We are now looking for a 'Zuki.......
I would think that towing a jeep on a dolly is not going to be good for it if it is all wheel drive. If it is part time 4x4 and you can put it in neutral you will be fine. My Tahoe can not tow either but no neutral and it is a 97 but the 96 jeep can and my 01 chevy could and I can tow my new 11 dodge pickup if i wanted too. Too heavy. I understand why you have the tow dolly but it is so much simpler to tow 4 down and takes much less time to hook up.
This again may have been my mistake (as mentioned above my jeep was not all wheel drive). I thought it was in neutral (transfer case 4X4). I still believe it was in Neutral (tho I can not figure out why it went bad otherwise). I towed it on a dolly from Texas to Illinois and ended up buying a transmission rebuild. This was a conventional 4X4 Jeep Cherokee. Sorry if this is repetitive.
the transfer case acts as a differential between the front and rear axles. I wouldn't think it would be good to tow it with a dolly. Either all up, or all down. As stated earlier, you need to find out about your specific transfer case, and make sure.
John, its interesting that you mentioned your 97 Tahoe. We have a 97 Z71 Chevy p/u that cannot be towed. It turns out that the 96 and 98 both had a neutral for the transfer case. The 97 was the only year that cannot be towed 4 down. Just my Luck.
Side note on 97 Tahoe - not only could it not be towed 4 down but it could not tow our 4000 lb trailer without burning up that transmission. It was just a bad year all around for the Tahoe.
I don't want to tow anything heavy and think a Suzuki Samuri would be a good choice. The ones I've seen in tow haven't bothered with aux braking and the towing set-up looks very basic. Anyone ever tow one of these? I know it is rudimentary transportation but I don't plan to drive it much except when out with the coach on vacation or visiting daughter away at school (Go Gators!).
Dwayne, I had first a suzuki sidekick for towing and now a chev Tracker (same thing just a bit bigger) and find it great. You do not know it is there and tows 4 down with no problems. When we tow it I just need it to go to stores or do some off road side trips to explore but nothing major, and we can still take 2 guests with us. Do not need a fancy vehicle as tow car as it just eats up fuel I guess. If I wanted to go fancy I would pull the Bentley Continental, right Kent??
John H
Actually John, it would have to be the Bentley Continental GT or maybe a Lambo!!! But until then my Subaru Outback 5 speed is just fine. It has similar cargo capacity to a Jeep Grand Cherokee but is about 1500 pounds lighter.
Dwayne,
Back in the day, the Suzuki Samuri was the toad of choice for many, many RVers. And it was because that was what the "experts" recommended because of the exact same reasons you mentioned. Light weight, easy to set up to tow, and good dependable transportation. I would say that the Suzuki Samuri and GM's Saturn were the main toads of choice back them. I used the same reasoning in picking the Ford Focus that I tow.
Despite what some factory rules about towing, I found Ford hides be hind the lawyers and for my F150 5 speed manual 2 wheel drive, Ford says no towing. I contacted Remco, they informed me that if the F150 had the Mazda 5 speed, just tow it. SO i have for over 25K miles with no issues, Ford still says NO Towing 4 down. Thank you Remco.
SO when in doubt, I would contact Remco for their take on it.
Dave M
Dwayne,
I have 1995 suzuki sidekick 2dr 4w/d 5 speed and it is a great toad and one tough little trucklet. Only 2700lbs, 1.6 liter, 16valve, fuel injection, and 95 hp, it's a real "kick" to drive! It has both hardtops , a/c and 27mpg highway. Simple blue ox towbar and no auxillary braking necessary. Lots of aftermarket goodies available such as an OME suspension which makes it great for offroading and smooth for highway driving. It currently has 120,000 miles with about 60,000 towed miles from prior owners. With manual locking front hubs and larger all terrain tires it will go just about anywhere. It's actually the most versatile and fun vehicle I've ever owned. I've towed it with a 29' minnie winnie with no problems and can barely feel it back there. They are easy to work on and I've only had to replace the front wheel bearings and the necessary maintenance items.
The sidekick and the tracker are identical and good ones are getting harder to find because they are inexpensive and great for offroading. The samaurai is smaller, only has 50HP and is not a great highway vehicle if you are going long distances in my opinion. I have as much fun with my Zuki as I do my U300! and you need to check out this website for a lot more info. ZUKIWORLD online | Your Suzuki 4x4 Resource - Editorial and Forum (http://www.zukiworld.com/)
Jerry
I flat tow a 1998 Suzuki X90 automatic, glass "T" roof convertible.
It has the same drive train as a Sidekick. Flat towing requires replacing the front auto-lock hubs with manual hubs because the front drive shaft spins when the transfer case is in neutral (auto in park). The odometer clocks the miles when being towed.
When towing more than 300 miles I disconnect the rear driveshaft and tie it up.
Unlocking the steering wheel requires the key in the ignition turned to between off and accessories. The key would sometimes move to the off position while towing. NOT good. I removed the steering lock mechanism, so key in ignition is no longer required.
I do use a simple BlueOX surge type cable brake on this Suzuki to be legal, not because it is needed. I have it adjusted so the car brakes seldom are applied.
I previously flat towed a 1984 Ford Bronco-II automatic which Ford indicates cannot be flat towed. I found information from 4x4 internet sites to just overfill the trasfer case and flat tow. I flat towed it to California several times without issues. The key in ignition to unlock steering was never an issue like with the Suzuki.
The 2012 F150 4x4 is flat tow able per the owners manual. I visited several Ford dealers yesterday and they had NO clue.
I had to point it to one saleman by have him read the owners manual under " RV towing".
From a FORD Press release
• Upgrades on the 2012 F-150's drivetrain include replacing last year's electronic shift-on-the-fly
with a two-speed automatic 4x4 system for LARIAT, King Ranch® and Platinum trim levels
• The addition of neutral tow capability on all 4x4 trucks means customers can now
flat-tow their F-150, making the truck
even more useful.
Looked at the 2013 Escape, but not towable any which way.
May go for the 2013 F150 4x4 later on this year.
Just my 2¢...I have owned and towed four different jeeps. If you are not flat towing it you are correct in disconnecting drive shaft as per the ow
ners manual.
We tow a 2010 Jeep Liberty 4x4 four wheels down, transfer case in neutral and the ignition key in my pocket per owners manual with no problems. Have the US Gear breaking system installed, no problems stopping either.
I've found a Geo Tracker 4 x 4 auto with manual hubs. It's never been towed so I'll be looking for the base plate and tow bar. Key must stay in ACC so I guess a battery disconnect is necessary. Also, I need to figure out the best method of wiring the electrical. Advice appreciated.
Dwayne, On my last two toads I have drilled holes in the rear tail light assemblies and installed a second two filament bulb and then led 4 wire cable down the chassis or frame rail. This gets away from putting diodes in line and is a simpler installation.
Gary B
Key in ACC might be for the steering wheel lock. That lock can be removed. My Focus requires the key, but does not required battery disconnnect.
The electrical is no problem. I hooked the Blue Ox electrical plug in on the front of the toad and ran the wiring all the way to the rear where I installed two Stop Turn Tail LED truck type lights to the rear of the vehicle. They stand out like a sore thumb when in used. No one can say that they could not see them.
Looks like this:
(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.etrailer.com%2Fmerchant2%2Fgraphics%2F00000001%2Fpics%2F4%2F2%2F420R-3.jpg&hash=53ad4990e02dcda61c34b7c055ec58db" rel="cached" data-hash="53ad4990e02dcda61c34b7c055ec58db" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.etrailer.com/merchant2/graphics/00000001/pics/4/2/420R-3.jpg)
Fits into a rubber gasket attached to a metal housing you bolt to vehicle.
Thanks Gary & Pat. I like the simplicity of wiring independent wiring / lighting. I didn't think that the key at the ACC position wouldn't power things and run down the battery. Every car I've ever owned powers stuff at that position.
Dwayne,
Congratulations on finding a tracker to tow! What year and which model do you have? They are very easy to set up and maintain as other members will attest to. My Zuki was already set up to tow and you should be able to find a good used towbar and baseplate. I use safety cables from walmart and they work just fine. I tow between 55 and 65 mpg and usually stop around every 200 miles and let it run for a few minutes. No need for battery disconnect if you do this. Jeeps wranglers are great, but they can get expensive. Try craigslist or zukiworld.com/ classifieds for tons of info, parts, etc. Mine is basically stock but bigger tires make a huge difference in the ride and handling. You can go stock or modify all the way to a rock crawler! Either way they are a lot of fun and won't break the bank. Call me if you like and we can discuss this further.
Jerry
(228) 229-5492
It is a 95 and looks almost like yours. I see your rig is the same color as mine too. I may take you up on the questions. I see you have the tow bar that stays on the truck. I have yet to see the tracker in person. The owner says it is super clean in and out but that it acts very cold on start up and must warm up before running good. Are these beasts cold natured?
No, they are not cold natured if tuned up properly. Mine starts right up after sitting up for a week. Ask for any maintenance records, repairs etc. It could be the o2 sensor, EGR or vacuum leak. Is the check engine light on? If so, CHECK the codes and proceed from there. Mine did that when I first got and I took it to a mechanic who knew Zukis and he found a simple vacuum leak. Also Sea foam is good to use to clean up dirty air intakes and fuel lines. Get yourself a repair manual and start reading. Make sure it doesn't smoke and the 4w/d works properly. If it was just used as a daily driver and not too many miles on it you're probably okay. There should be a south Florida owners group you can join and you can get a lot of help there. These little guys make a great hobby and you will really love it when you fill it up for $25 bucks and can go 200+ miles!
Good luck
Jerry
In my previous jeep cherokee there was an extra bulb socket hole. I bought another socket with wiring, fit the hole perfectly, then ran the wire forward (cable tied to frame member)to the 4wire trailer hookup and voila, wires for the jeep. I kept the plug in for the 4 hole near the bumper with some twisty ties and when in use took it off and plugged it in the socket. When not in use, put back on the twisty tie and drove with it and never experienced a problem. The brake/turn signal lamps were unchanged and the brake lights while towing were never a part of the jeep circuit. I don't know if other vehicles had/have this but just wanted to point out an easy fix for my old jeep cherokee. BTW towed on all 4 down, it was a 4WD in Neutral (used a tow bar).
I'll check on all of that Jerry. I am leaning toward the extra lights such as Charles is talking about if there is room in the taillight assemblies to drill a hole for the new bulb. I really don't want to mess with the diode arrangement and don't want to do the magnetic lights either.
Dwayne, I did not drill the hole, believe it or not, it was already there. I can not say why, but it certainly was convenient. My jeep cherokee was a 1996. The light assembly may be different on later models. But it is easy to check. Just a couple of screws to remove. That has been a while since I owned that jeep.
BTW, I attached the connection for the tow bar to the front bumper. This was a bad idea as it started to come loose after a while. Perhaps needless to say to most, as the bumper was not stout enough. The issue showed up when I hit some potholes (while towing the jeep behind the motorhome), it put a lot of stress on the bumper/towbar connection which dang near took off the front bumper. I was able to fix the bumper attachment back to the jeep but did not tow it that way anymore. Here was a reminder that there is a logical reason for checking all that stuff on a regular basis. :-)
on our '03 Wrangler, I mounted an extra set of lights on the rear bumper that are totally independent of the Jeep's wiring. 3 years, and so far, so good.
I also included the front parking & turn signal lights with the rear lights, as I nearly had a truck pull out behind the coach, as he did not see the toad until he nearly hit it. Have not had that issue since the front marker lights were included. Just sying.
FWIW
Dave M
Dave,
I did not do that but agree that would be a good idea. Hmm, will work on some side illumination for mine. I really like the idea of separate lights for the toad that are powered by the trailer hook up. LED which is now available would be a good idea too.
Couldn't get to look at the Tracker this weekend so plan to do it next weekend. I was looking at the coach and there is an electrical connection for the toad lighting and another thing with nothing connected to it from behind. Is this the electrical connection that is common today or will I need an adapter and what is the other thing?
Somebody on this thread posted that they towed an HHR.
If you see this could you tell me whether it is a stick or auto and if it is a stick do you know if the auto can be towed flat
Thanks
Randy,
Send Dan Stansel a note. He tows his HHR, which is an auto, know he added a switch to kill power rather than remove a fuse.
Just met him last Fri. when we were parked down the road from his home and he stopped by for a chat. I asked about his tow and what he had to do.
Dave is correct Randy, I tow an HHR and it tows great. Automatic transmission. All you have to do is (1) Put gear shift in Neutral(2) Place key switch in access<key will not come out so keep the second set in the coach if you desire to lock> (3) Pull one fuse in my case I got a fuse switch. (4) make sure emergency brake is off. You are ready to go. I have M&G brakes and break away and Blue Ox tow bar. Car has lots of room for storage and great AC in hot days. DAN
Thanks Dan and Dave.
I'm not towing anything right now and I really like the looks and the space of the HHR. Another selling point for me is that I have a 2003 Saturn ION with 223,000 miles on it and it has the same engine as the HHR.
I guess it's time to go shopping.
Thanks again
Randy
Hi Dwayne, I have the same plug on my M.H. facing straight down. My tow dolly has a 6 prong flat. I found Autozone has a great selection of adaptors and good prices.
Respectfully, Mitch Sayer
Just bought a 97 Geo Tracker Lsi on eBay. He bought it from an older couple who'd just gave up fulltiming. It is all rigged up for towing with base plate and tow bar. Seller says the inside is like new with just about every option offered including a removable hardtop. I asked about the hubs and he really didn't know except to say that you put the 4WD in neutral and the auto in park and it rolls around freely. Looks like the couple mounted a set of towing lights on the spare and just ran the wire up to the coach. I'll probably change that. The only issue is that it is in NC almost to Norfolk, VA so I've got to check into shipping vs. driving up in my P/U or the seller said he'd keep it until I can hitch a ride with family who'll be travelling from FL to PA in about six weeks. It will be nice having transportation with us on our travels and not dependent on our daughter when visiting in Gainesville. College kids are apparently too busy to be chauffeuring parents.
I believe the front hubs, if it has them, should be unlocked - freewheeling. And congrats on the good catch!
Dwayne,
I just looked at the tracker you just bought off ebay and it looks like you found a real gem! If I didn't own my 95 sidekick already I would have bid on it also! It looks to be in great shape and very well maintained by the prior owner who used it for his toad. New tires, battery, fluids, timing belt, hard tops, tow bar and base plate, ABS, a/c and cruise control, Wow! I would find out if possible how many towed miles (mine had over 50,000). Make sure you have manual front hubs and check the front wheel bearings and the 4wd drive operation. The only thing I would add would be an OME suspension kit (springs, shocks, & struts, 2.5" lift) designed specifically for these trucklets for superior ride comfort and light offroad capabilities. Off-Road Equipment for the Serious Enthusiast (http://www.rocky-road.com/index2.html)
Jerry
I was hoping to not have to pay so much but considering how nice it is and that it already is equipped with the towing gear I'm satisfied. I was looking at a local one not nearly as nice and with the towing gear I'd be in the same ballpark. Now I just have to learn how to drive the rig with something in tow.
Geez our toad just keeps following us everywhere we go. :P Important you don't forget anything when hooking it up.
Roland
Yep, like one of the tow bar arms!!! Still don't know how I did that. Was last winter down at Skidaway SP in Savannah. Put the pin and lock on and everything, but the one arm was not attached. Bent the other just a hair. Have to send it in to Blue Ox and get it fixed.
Oh yea! Forgot, you can't back up without bending at least one tow arm. Don't ask me how I know that. :'(
Roland
Jerry, As yours is a 5 speed you may not know the answer but I'm wondering if I should have the auto in P, N or 2 along with the transfer case in neutral for towing? How about the key...in ACC? I have to find out about the hubs. Seller doesn't know so I won't find out till I pick it up next month. He's storing it for me till I can get up to get it in about six weeks. He says everything is automatic for towing so if the hubs are auto locking the previous owner just took his chances. I hope they are manual so I don't have the expense of changing them.
I tow a Suzuki X90 which has the same 4x4 drivetrain as a sidekick (or a Tracker). Automatic tranny in park, transfer case in neutral, manual front hubs unlocked. The automatic tranny in park keeps the output shaft to the transfer case from turning which would damage the tranny. Asuna manual front hubs are not difficult to find because they were used by Suzuki for years. There are two different seals, a gasket or an "O" ring. Be sure to get lockers which are sealed the same way as the auto lockers you are replacing because the spacing is different. My X90 came with "O" ring type auto lockers, however, most Trackers come with manual lockers.
Ignition key in ignition is to unlock the steering wheel. I removed the steering locking mechanism so do not need the key in the ignition. I did not want to discharge battery with key in "acc" position and key half way between "off" and "acc" jiggled into off because there is no indent to keep the key from turning.
Backing up with X90 attached is something I do all the time, even around shallow curves. Have someone beside the car who can signal if the front wheels get pushed to the "hard left" or "hard right" position. Pull forward to straighten the wheels before backing up some more. Continuing to back with wheels in full lock will cause damage to tow bar.
Dwayne,
Have the seller check the front hubs. If manual there is a two position knob with an arrow pointing to either 4x2 or 4x4. 4x2 is the towing position and unlocks the front wheels from the front axle. I have superwinch hubs and you can get them new for around $130.
I do exactly what Wyatt does when hooking up except I put the tranny in 2nd gear. Make sure your locking pin is in on the hitch (pull up on the tongue to make sure it doesn"t come off the ball!). Make sure your safety chains or cables are hooked up, hook up for lights is secure ( I use duct tape on both connections), test your turn signals and brake lights and make sure your parking brake is off. Don't lock the doors unless you have spare key! Under 3000lbs you don't need an auxillary braking system. Use the same procedure every time and after a few times you can do it with confidence in about 5 minutes. Having a backup camera really helps when making turns, etc. because you won't hardly know its back there. I towed mine with a minnie winnie over 10,000 miles without one and without incident.
Wyatt,
I still have the steering wheel locking mechanism so I turn the key to ACC and turn the radio off. I haven't had a problem yet with the key or the battery, and I would appreciate your procedure for removing the locking mechanism. I'm not worried about tracking the mileage but it it would nice not to worry about the key or accidentally locking the steering wheel. I love the X-90 and have you done any other mods to it?
Thanks Wyatt and good luck Dwayne!
Jerry
Haven't picked it up yet but the seller insists that the hubs can be manually operated from outside or remotely from inside. Doesn't sound right.
No! But around here in the winter months, some people leave their hubs locked in and use the inside transfer case to engage and dis-engage the 4 wheel drive as they need it. I don't know of any hubs that can be manually operated from outside or remotely from inside.
Dwayne,
I agree with Pat. If the seller can send you a close-up photo of the front hub then we should be able to determine which type it is. The OEM hubs are completely sealed and should say AUTO free wheel hub on them.
Jerry
Clearly there are many versions of front 4X4 hubs, on my 2011 F350 4X4 there is no need to Manually twist the hub selector, whe you select the 4 wheel position, the hubs are engaged buy vacuum or electric. This setup is incapable 4 down towing as no method of selecting neutral in the transfer box, all electric shift. Works great for what it is.
Dave M
Auto hubs on the Suzuki X90 work like a broom handle which can be extended then locked with a twist. Unlock by twisting in the opposite direction. The auto-lock hubs on my Bronco II were the same.
In later years, Suzuki moved the locking mechanism from outside the wheel to inside the front differential, such that the right and left half shafts turned with the front wheels all the time. Many purist 4x4 folk objected to the increased fuel consumption that this apparently caused and replaced the axle end blanks with manual lockers.
The steering lock on the X90 is on the bottom of the steering column. I removed the press pin fixing the round cover, then removed the plunger which locked the steering and the spring which pushed the plunger up when the key was removed (actually spring and plunger just fell out). I found this mechanism with a visual inspection and a hunch - did not know result until it was done, but knew I could reinstall if not the steering lock.