I have been wanting to replace my 8 air bags with new ones for some time and am goi.g to have my parts gut check for prices tomorrow. Ive gone through all 3 owners manuals and only fine 1 piece of info. It says air ride bags, quantity 8, part number 7000230. THATS IT, no name brand or anything. Ive looked at every page. They say Firestone, the bottom base is 9 1/2" round and they lift to 12" or just a bit higher. Does anyone have better info about what my 36' 1991 GV would use?
Perhaps another buying source would be helpful as well.
I sent him the number this evening but afterward I looked it up online and was right to guess it meant nothing.
Many thanks :)
Carl Sandel
I went to Barry Beam's site Air Bags (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/air_bags.html) and found a wealth of info about the air bags ( bellows and springs ) I DID see a bellows number on them but honestly do not believe that I will source the spring number.
After looking at the break down specs of Barry's, mine were / are the same in size. I wonder if they are very generic for FT to use a lot of the same size. Does anyone know this or have anything to share?
Carl,
Those Firestone airbags are pretty standard. I know yours are the same as mine. Tomorrow (Tuesday) I'll go out to the coach and get the model number and source for you. I recall (perhaps not accurately) that they were over $100 each. That's not the number they go by.
By golly Don, That would be awesome! I really appreciate it :)
Carl,
Here's the link: Search - TruckSpring.com (http://www.truckspring.com/Search.aspx?keyword=w01-358-9448)
I got mine from Truckspring.com and the model no. is W01-358-9448. In March of '10 I paid $1440 for 8, which amounts to $180 each. I see that today you can get them for $155.71 each. List Price $262.76. If you use that link, go to "Product Details", Overview, at the bottom , the last bullet says "Note: Foretravel, Inc." This price includes the base and top plate and bellows, nothing else needed to buy.
AND, Free Shipping!!
Hope this helps.
Carl,
See my post of today over on the foretravel discussions forum, the reply to Dick and Sue.
Replacing Air Bags (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=15680.msg96764#msg96764)
Good luck
Carl,
I have replaced the 4 rear bags on my rv. Not at home, so I'm not sure exactly sure who I bought them from. I believe it was Michigan truck spring. They had them and shipped fairly promptly, but it was a couple of months before I replaced them. Cost for 4 was a little over $600. Not too difficult a job. It took about 2 1/2 hrs, but that doesn't include removing the fenders and replacing them, which were already off. I had to ream out the bolt holes on one bottom plate to get the 2 bolts on the piston to go in. Plan on replacing the front bags soon. Any replies may not be seen for several days.
This is all great info, from EVERYONE. Rick, Love your pics and tool info as well. You guys are scaring me though. I am REALLY hoping for OE Firestone replacements for...........say, $90 each or less. ( fingers crossed )
Will find out tomorrow what my guy says
I am BTW...tighter than 2 coats of paint, lol
So far $130 ea....but mechanic says he still has a couple arms to twist, lol
Patiently waiting. He said if they were "common" he could get them for much less??? I would have thought that our bags WERE "common".
Carl,
If you can get them for $130 each, you're still saving $27/bag X 8 = $216 compared to what we can get them for. Remember, the model we gave you is specifically for Foretravel's suspension. Don't settle for something "similar".
Don, I guess I was thinking that these bags were a generic sort that would fit all kinds of other rigs. I asked about Goodyear and my guy shook his head no. He said if that was the only choice, maybe. I thought Goodyear would be a good second choice....but he suggested we stay with Firestone. It will be interesting to see what other prices he finds.
What would anyone else think about Goodyear if there was much difference in price?
Just curious as I value your opinions...
If anyone knows where to purchase Firestone W01-358-9448 airbags at $130 each including shipping, I would buy four. If a bulk sale would result in a lower price, perhaps others on this forum would be interested also.
I investigated purchasing the equivalent Goodyear 1R11-150 airbags but never found a source at less than $150.
I'm not sure that the shipping would be included. For me they will be delivered to my local county garage. My mechanic is still seeing what he can find for cheaper. I will post when I find out something. A bulk purchase may be in order.
I was offered a Goodyear replacement but found that the spec sheet had different dimensions. If you get the goodyears it would be nice to know if they fit and function the same.
Good luck,
I looked for a while but $157 delivered was the best I could do. They had eight in stock when I bought my three. Delivery was quick with overnight optional if you are in a jam. Once you have the coach jacked up and secure, R&R is only about 10 minutes without touching tires. 5 minutes with an airgun. Aside from typical sockets and ratchets, a couple of 12" or so extensions are mandatory and a 1 1/8" (if I remember correctly) modified box end wrench to fit the big nut with the air fitting in case it's stubborn. Compressing the bag with a knee while keeping the vinyl caps on before installation makes it a snap. PM for any questions before you start. See previous posts for internet sources/prices.
Pierce
I replaced my air bags a while back and did a write up about it on Yahoo Groups.
If I were to do it again, I would order the ONLY the black rubber air bags and not get the metal inserts with the airbags.
The bags are held on with one bolt and it should not be a big deal to remove the old bag and replace it with a new one.
I don't know the pricing difference but there would sure be a shipping weight difference.
Anything that heavy has to cost a lot extra these days.
Regards,
Jon,
If we cannot find black rubber bags by themselves, would it be easier to buy the set with top & bottom parts, and reuse the original top & bottom parts and just replace the rubber bags?
Would this allow air bag changes without the need to remove fenders?
Is this possible and logical?
I mentioned buying only bags to my neighbor and he looked at me like I was cerazy and said not to ever buy bags only, always buy the whole unit. No explaination.....sometimes I just don't think he understands but then knowing who he is and the only thing he's ever done for the last 20 years is work on our county diesels, I have to just go with it and believe there is a reason for what he says.
I'm still waiting to see if they will come in less that the $130. There would be no shipping for that price.
I was looking at the way mine mount and believe the fender will have to come off to reach one bolt on I think 4 of the 8 bags. I'll have to look closer.
Not much difference between $130 and $155 delivered if one leaks or has other problems. His experience may indicate that the bag installation on old ends has pitfalls.
Trying to figure if your '91 mounts like my '93. Which bags have the potential access problem for the one bolt and which bolt is it? Will look at mine and compare.
Pierce
We took one air bag apart, well almost. The bottom bolt removes the bottom plate, but the rubber bag is factory crimped to the top plate. Don't know how one could re-crimp a new bag to the top plate.
The power coat on the bottom plate was peeling, so that would need to be re-coated.
When I replaced my rear airbags in January this year. I searched internet for the Firestone bellows #1T15L-2 and found only one source where the price was more than I paid for the assemblies.
I agree with Jon that it is very easy to remove the one bolt holding the bottom puck on and did actually disassemble the removed assemblies. However, the bottom pucks (# 1T15L-3) are cast from an aluminum alloy (4 lbs) and were corroded and rough. Sanding cleaning and repainting could cure that.There would not be any risk of leaks because the bolt holding the bottom puck threads into the rubber stopper that is molded inside the airbag. The airbag would hold air without the bottom puck attached.
The top plate is different, it is steel. The circular edge of the top plate is crimped over the open top of the airbag. Without the top plate, the airbag becomes a bucket. Firestone bellows # 1T15L-2 includes the top plate.
Pierce, here's what I found. Both very front bags will be no problem. Laying down with right tools should get all 4 bolts. Rear front can get 3 bolts BUT will have to take fender off to reach top bolt nearest to gen on drivers side and fuel cell on pass side.
On the rears, the far rears on both sides should be no problem other than a bottom on each side is tight near the tire...right tools should allow to get past that. Front rear top on both sides will have to remove fender to reach, can't see a way without AND....the bummer is, there is a trim strip with screws about every 12" that is CAULKED to the coach and is 14' long and shaped to bend around the rear and up to the engine compartment door. So that will not be fun and I wish there was a way around it.
Some guys have mentioned that the cords are showing on their bags....I don't have anything like that at all....but the rubber is like shingle gravel that crumbles off fwhen I rub my hand on it. They may not be that bad but I sure would feel better knowing they are brand new. I think I will just stay with the OEM Firestone products.
Carl,
No need for fender removal. For the hidden nuts, use a very short double box combination 3/4" or 19mm. Unless you have a long "crows foot", they are too short. Using two 1 foot 1/2" or 3/8" extensions quickly remove all the bottom nuts and then with a matching Allen drive, connect to the short combination and loosen the nut enough to remove by reaching up with fingers or using the short combination with your hand. Another option would be to cut off a 3/4" combination at about the 4 inch mark and weld on a 3/4" nut. You could then use a regular socket to access the visible nut loosen the top hidden nut. The nuts are not on too tightly so it's a easy job with only road debris that is in the threads slowing the process down slightly.
On the fronts, start the engine and turn the steering wheel so you have the maximum clear area near the bag you are working on.
Tip: soak all studs and nuts with penetrating oil the night before. Buy a new set of the 3/4" nuts and washers before you start (matching the threads). The bags don't come with new nuts. You can clean up the large existing nut on the stud with the air connection. When you are all ready with ducks in a row, leave all the black vinyl caps on the airbag studs with the exception of the air supply stud. Place the bag on the ground and compress it with your knee and while compressed, put the vinyl cap back on the big stud. It will seal the stud and the bag will stay compressed. You can easily move it into position then. I like using a box end better than an open end as they can't round off the nuts.
If you can't picture what the short combo looks like, I can post a photo. HF has the short wrenches.
Make sure the rig is secure before crawling under! Am sure you will but have to say it.
Don't take off that fender!!!
Pierce
Carl,
They also make a long special wrench that makes a 90 degree turn and will extend down a foot or so. Easy to connect to that tool and loosen the hidden nut.
Pierce
Photos are worth a thousand words. Here is a couple of photos examples of a wrench for hidden nuts.
Pierce
NICE!! Thanks for the info and pics. It will come in VERY handy :)
Carl,
There something that you need to realizes about our '91 coaches - they were the last year of 8' wide coaches the for U280 and U300 models.
As such the air springs are tucked up against the fender and make access harder than on '92 and later models. I couldn't see a way to do it without removing the fenders - but then I didn't have Pierce's nifty tools either. I removed the fenders and took the opportunity to clean up, repaint and caulk the areas that difficult to get to with the fenders in place. Yes, the trim piece is a bummer. They do sell silicone remover at home improvement stores but it just weakens it - doesn't really remove it.
Thankful for this recent thread! Just went over to take a monthly drive and noticed the motorhome listing badly. Figured it was just the fact that one side deflated faster than another. Took it for a 30 minute spin around the area and then pulled in to fill up with fuel. Shut down the engine and noticed that I was listing to one side pretty heavily. Got out and sure enough, air leaking out of one of my rear bags. Looks like replacement time for me!
I'm relatively inexperienced with 'air bags'. ( I have a set on the rear of my older class C that are aftermarkets bolt ons ...and now all around as 'THE' suspension, on my 2001 Foretravel).
My mind says they are very similar to tires in design and function but obviously are manufactured without date codes.
So....
-How do we know how old the ones are that we are purchasing? (don't want a set that might have sat on a shelf for 10 years!)(In tires, Michelin says 10 years max.)
-How can we protect the ones we have or the new replacements? ( any chemicals to protect from UV or ozone/ physical shielding like a custom sewn sunbrella cover or something else?)
There was a professional guy selling suspension components at the Pheonix Good Sam Rally in a corner booth, that told me and others, that air bags will last a lifetime, but I know virtually nothing is.
Ideas?
Air bags on my MCI were over 20 years old, still working fine, did replace 1 due to looks not due to failure. SOO my opinion, your 01 Foretravel is atleast not half way thru the life of the air bgags, I also have a 01 320, bags look new yet, no cracks, no blisters, no bubbles, no leaks that I can detect.
I would worry more about a comet striking the coach than air bag issues at this point, give em another 10 years and look again.
From my experience, others might be different.
Dave M
Dave, No!
No worries about comets but as to.... my thoughts posted," is there a way or a difference maybe/or similarity....as to the suspension air bags vs. tires." I'm thinking of carrying a spare airbag as well as: to the original question i thought I was proposing: Do airbags have a life expectancy similar to tires?
thanks. ron
Six months ago I replaced the rear airbags on my 1996 U320 because two of the three layers of cords were exposed on one bag, while one of the three layers was exposed on another bag. The other two bags looked dried out. The bags with the cords exposed had rubber which would just rub away in chunks. None of the bags were leaking but I did not want to have to deal with a failure on the road.
I showed the damaged air bag to a heavy diesel shop representative who was in Quartzsite and he indicated that he had never seen airbag damage like that before - thought it might have been due to being cleaned with harsh chemicals.
I cannot find the same damage on the front airbags but plan to replace them late this year.
Ron, I just keep them very clean. No need for after market additives that make outrageous claims. If you keep road dirt & grime off the rubber, you've done all you can.
Peter
From what I can tell, only one bag has gone bad. I ordered two new bags as I'm not wanting to spend the money to replace all 8 just yet. So, should I just go ahead and replace both bags on the failed side OR should I just replace the bad bag and keep the extra around for when the next one fails?
I was at FOT a couple of days. I saw several air bags lying in what appeared to be a junk pile. There a couple of bent H frames and some other parts that had suffered damage. The air bags looked undamaged and in WAY better condition than what I am running. I doubt that FOT would sell them to a customer, but you could ask.
We have air bags with "crumblies" on the outside. I often live toward the edge of prudence and normalcy, so I am sticking with the current bags until I have a better reason to change than aesthetics or worry.