Now on ebay is a 1991 38' Grand Villa with what looks to be a customized 'cow catcher'! :o Has anyone seen such an item on previous FTs? If so, what would be the function of same? One thing we thought of would be the ease of cleaning the windshield and front of the coach as well as entry of the front two compartments.
The coach itself is intriquing with what looks to be a customized floor plan for that year. Any comments??
1991 Foretravel Unihome Series 300 Detroit Granite Flooring Runs Drives Great! (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1991-Foretravel-Unihome-Series-300-Detroit-Granite-Flooring-Runs-Drives-Great-/160848492181?pt=RVs_Campers&hash=item2573513695)
To protect it from deer, as there are a lot of deer vehicle accidents. In the midwest I see many semi trucks with deer catchers on the front of them
It looks like it's also a step deck to wash the windshield. It's inserted into the "recovery recievers" that FT installed back then on the front of the coach. Supposed to be used to pull the coach if it ever gets stuck and you can't reach underneath to the framing. I use those same recieves as a step and stand on the bumper to wash the windshield but it could be difficult to get up there if you your not limber.
COOL! I want one! LOL
Clearly this is the Stage II optional deflector that goes with the helper Detroit 8V-92TA hot rod seen in the earlier post.
Looks like a very reasonable price for a U300 if in good shape. Would seem with the granite floor upgrade together with a couple of other clues, might indicate that the owner did spend the $$ on PM. At that price, you could park it and use it for an apartment. This is the rear radiator model with 300 hp instead of the 350 hp in the next year. In a bus, Detroits have gone over one million miles before overhaul so the 126,000 should have lots of life left if it's had proper feeding. That fan in the rear stateroom could be a surprise in the middle of the night.
Pierce
So am I understanding correctly that the 'cow catcher' (deflector) can be removed quite easily? Probably with a couple of pins like the rear hitch?
We like the price of these older Grand Villas but will probably hold out for a slightly newer bus style because of the larger panoramic windshield. We plan on traveling more than staying in one area, at least in the beginning of FT ownership.
Bigger windshield in the bus style but the higher seating position in a U280 or U300 gives a better view in some environments. Slightly higher than most big rigs. Later bus style is better navigating city traffic or busy freeways.
Removal of one pin on each side should allow it to go forward and off.
Pierce
Customers made up little flip down plates to stand on long ago to fit in the recovery holes.
Bob
Bill, You should try sitting up front in one of the older style. I've been in the bus style and I can tell you that the older style feels like the windshield is wrapped around you and you can see all around whereas the bus style you are behind the windshield. I think the visibility in the sloped front older units is outstanding. I think having to go past your turn a little before actually turning the wheel is less in one of these older units too but I only drove the bus style once.
The bus style has a nice panoramic view without the wood piece between the front and side windows. Almost un obstructed 180 degree viewing. Took us a while to settle in versus all those days in orange and brown foretravel oreds then ored grand villas.
I drove hundreds of foretravels, then grand villas then unihomes and now our unicoach.
My DW is an avid through the window photo gal and the wider taller viewing angle is a noticeable improvement. At least for us. The rare mid entry also helps us greatly.
Those front receivers are handy for other applications. I saw a bike rack on the front of a Grand Villa up at Banff National Park and had the same engineer in Florida build one for me. Here is what it looks like, without and with bikes. The rack is aluminum. We have hauled bikes from Alaska to Florida on them.
Those are some nice bike racks Don. Seems to serve dual purposes as a carrier and animal protection.
We plan on heading down to TX in the fall when things cool down to look at all the FTs available at MOT/FOT/Encore etc and even some private party sales. We want to test drive each model to determine if we have a clear preference to one over the other. Our thinking is that jumping from one style to the other is the best way. DW is holding out for a mid entry for practicality issues. So we'll see. At any rate it should be fun meeting everyone at these locations that we've been reading about for nearly a year.
Another factor to consider is ground clearance. We go off paved roads quite a bit and like the advantage of the higher road height. Have hit the 90 degree on the generator muffler but not scraped the belly pan yet. As a couple other members have noted, the view out of the windows in the tall rigs is outstanding.
36 feet fits better in the national park and state park campsites here in the west.
Sure would be nice to have a roof location for the engine air intake. Our air cleaner chokes rapidly off paved road.
Don, love your bike rack!
Pierce
My favorite coach was the original 36' u280 with the manual leveling levers on the floor next to the drivers chair. Used to raise the coach up to full height and slowly drive a coach over curbs and parking lot space stops.
We had a favorite remote camp spot that was reached by an off camber road. So I would lower the high side and raise the low side and slowly traverse the side slope.
You could also stink bug the coach for big dips. I used to leave a unihome slanted in the display as invariably a rver would come in the sales office and tell us our coach needed work. Made a good opening to talk about coaches.
Any of those early coaches around?
Bob
Intrigued by the talk of the higher seating positions of the U280/300's vs. the Unicoaches. I haven't been inside the GV types yet, but just looking at the pictures, it seems like the Bus style would sit higher... not true? Also that they have higher ground clearance in travel mode? hmm... The bus style is taller over all though, right? Any pics side by side?
Don
I much prefer the visibility from the deck of the GV's. My seat is about a foot higher than the bus types and I sit at eye level with the truck drivers. Lots easier to judge side clearance in the mirrors and the mirrors set at equal distance so you don't have to refocus all the time.
Gary B
Well crap! Now I have to build a set of aluminum front bike racks.
Thanks a lot, Don! :P
Craig :)
PS: Just looked and no receiver on my '93 U225. But it looks like it would be easy to fabricate something to hold bikes or a Trail 90 or something light. :)
Here's a couple Don.
Even though the sites in this Boothbay Harbor park are tiered (roughly 12" to 14" from site to site), it's clear that the GV pilot seating is much higher than a Unicoach's seating (which is low in the total vertical span of the windshield). The third picture shows level side to side, but not quite as clearly. Overall height isn't that different but approach angle of the GV is much better, for when it matters.
FWIW,
Neal
Thanks Neal! It certainly does look that way... I can't wait until I get to see a boat load of Foretravels all togeter like that in person!
Don
Don, The floor level in the GV's at the drivers and passenger position is about a foot higher than the rest of the floor. That and the WS being mounted higher in the body gives the driver a much better view of the road. The main disadvantage is that anything close to the front bumper is almost invisible where in the Bus types you can see a lot more closer to the bumper from the drivers seat.
Gary B
@Don @Gary I tested the blind spot on my GV by putting a water bottle on the pavement in front of the coach. Then sat in the drivers seat and couldn't see it. Got out moved it further. Back in the drivers seat still no see. etc...etc...etc... How far out was it before I could see it? 17 FEET!
see ya
ken
Ken,
That's why operating an older Foretravel on an occasional basis can be challenging. Professional drivers develop a sixth sense for their space and whether they realize it or not, are able to automatically memorize traffic behind and in front of them. Sort of like a pilot who frequently scans the flight and engine instruments as routine procedure. If you are rusty, you may be distracted by banging cabinets, sliding doors, trying to read the GPS, etc.
In the FD, we would always stop at a traffic light leaving at least a vehicle length between us and the car/truck ahead. If we had to suddenly respond to an emergency, there was room to go around. With the older long nosed apparatus, it was easy to forget if there was a car directly in front. Several cars were crushed when they didn't move when the light turned green. So, by habit, I always stop a little early with our U300.
As Ken says, that 17 feet of hidden space in front is something to focus on until it becomes second nature. If Gaylie is in the other seat, I always ask her to check traffic before I move to the right. Without a passenger over there, I focus more on memorizing the right lane traffic if I have a turn coming up. Another good reason to have a GPS that gives a two mile warning for turns ahead on the freeway. Seven tenths of a mile indication on some GPSs is not enough during freeway rush hour. Getting caught in the left or middle lanes with freeways that merge and a turn off a half mile ahead can be stressful.
The old saying "measure twice, cut once" in carpentry works for RVs also. Check at least twice and don't guess before you move over.
Pierce
@Pierce I was a repair facility in Little Rock, AR right after we bought the coach heading back to Colorado so only had a few hours driving under my belt. The tech asked me to pull the coach head first into a parking spot and as close to the building as possible. Pulled in as close as I dared got out and checked and I was 8 or 9 feet from the wall! Tried again and it looked like the wall was touching the front bumper. Got out checked and was still 6 feet away. Finally had Dori wave me in and still didn't have the nerve to get any closer than 2 feet! It looked like the wall was in the coach!
I had a 34' SOB 10 years ago and thought I knew how to drive a big rig. WRONG!
see ya
ken
Ken, we did a similar test when we were in Nac earlier this summer. I set the driver's seat where I would have it, and Jo Ann stood outside facing the coach along the center line. I motioned her to move closer or farther away until I couldn't see her shoes. Then I got out and measured the distance from the front of the coach to her. As I recall, it came out around 15' or so. When we buy our full-time coach I'll do that test again, adding in the distance from my eyes to the windshield, and also measure the height of my eyes from the road. With that information I can draw a triangle that will give me the height of what is hidden. I suspect that something like a Honda Fit might be able to be completely hidden, and a motorcycle certainly would be, but then if I'm coming up on them at a signal I ought to know that they are there.
Has anyone installed a backup camera up front? That might be one way to reduce the blind spot.
I have noticed a lot of drivers are leaving a car length (or more) between them and the vehicle in front. This practice - at least in a relatively lightweight car - can create some problems if you are struck in the rear. Remember the desk toy with those little steel balls that all but one stay static when one end ball is impacted onto the group? Only the other end ball moves away. All the rest stay in place.
In a rear-end collision - with all other conditions the same - a group of cars will behave in exactly the same way if they are all touching; only the first car in the group (the one in front) will be accelerated by the impact force at the rear of the group. Of course there will be some crushing forces to contend with and practically no group of cars stops touching each other.
Nevertheless, if you want to reduce the sudden acceleration followed by the equally sudden deceleration that would occur in a typical rear-end impact on a group of cars, leave as little room between you and the car in front as possible. It is these acceleration and deceleration forces that cause the most injuries in a rear-end impact.
It seems to me that the safety considerations of leaving as little room as possible outweigh the convenience factors of being able to switch lanes.
Craig
FWIW cars are not steel balls, they tend to crush a bit when smacked in the rear, degree of crush proportional to the speed of impact and the weight of the impacting vehicle. According to my Class A truck driving instructions you should always be able to see the tires "kiss" the ground on the vehicle in front of you when stopped at a light or intersection etc.
Roland
@David The blind spot in front is not that big of a deal. You will obviously be looking that direction when you pull up. Just something that you need to be aware of. A monitor would be overkill. IMHO
see ya
ken
Continuing this thread concerning the drivers elevation as compared to the bus style...we've seen two variations of the 12" step or pedestal on the GrandVillas. Seems as the older Villas have this 'lift' across the entire front w/ what looks to be heat duct vents. However the newer model Villas have just the driver and passenger seats on this pedestal and the space created houses a TV. I would think having the space between the seats at floor level would be preferable.
Would those who have either of these models care to comment on the advantages or disadvantages of each?
The raised area between the pilot and co-pilot seats makes a great place to put the dog's bed.
Craig
You guys are prodding my memory every day with your questions. Fun for me.
The foretravel and grand villas had a front "L" shaped fresh water tank. 75 gallons. The front propane furnace had a run under the sofa that turned 90 degrees under the drivers seat through a duct in the pedestal that blew hot air into a hollow area under a carpeted cover between the seats. The hot air kept the tank from freezing and the valves to fill and drain the tank were there also.
I remember having a motorcycle police man behind me one day tucked in where the mirrors could not see him as he knew I was going very fast. He did not notice the backup camera as it was a tiny one in the rear cap.
Got tired of this and with the coach water pump on I reached down on the freeway and opened the tank drain valve. Water poured out under the coach under pressure through the 1/2 inch line. He moved out from behind the coach instantly and motored off. I closed the valve and laughed myself silly. Score one for the rv'ers with powerful coaches.
The 87 ored 300 cat ataac would pull almost 90 mph at 2,900 to 3,000 rpm.
Shift into 4th at 60. Slowly Accelerate up 6 percent grades until you finally backed off.
10 mpg driven at 70. 8 at 85+. 20,000 pounds is why. Little coach. State of foretravel art 25 years ago.
Sorry for the hijack but too much fun.
That's hilarious Bob! I'm surprised he didn't pull you over for 'weeing in public'.
I'm still inquisitive as to the ease of access to the front seats concerning the two layouts. It would seem to me that having the floor space between the two seats would be easier to jump in and out of them. ::) (we don't have a dog...but g-kids are a distinct possibility)
Bill, Our two dogs love the raised area where the front seats are, they can get to the WS in three jumps, once to the floor, second to the seat and then on to the Dash. It is a lot easier to get into the front seats in a GV, no awkward back bending. There is also the increased storage as there are three drawers under the raised portion.
Gary B
I don't have drawers, just the FW tank valves. I wasn't thrilled with this raised area when getting in and out of the seat when the old tube tv was above in center. It was always in the way. Now that it is gone...no problem. I like it for the visibility. When not on the road it often gets used as a seat.
Yes lots of head smashing
"lots of head smashing" This is our concern w/ the older GVs. We want ease of entry for both front seats as we plan on doing a fair amount of traveling opposed to sitting in on area for extended periods of time. So having that 'dog house' eliminated like in the newer FTs or going w/ the bus style seems preferable to us. However, we are very flexible and are looking forward to experiencing both styles come this fall.
Think most of the later GVs had TVs down below. Nothing even close to our heads in our U300.
Pierce
Actually, I think the difference is the U225 and U240's had the water tank up front under the dog house requiring a raised flat floor all across the front end. You could get a head bump on the TV if you weren't careful. I am or was 6' 3". The U280 and U300 had a cutout in between the seats and the water tank is located back by the bathroom. The TV was at the raised floor level on the U280 and U300. I'm not sure the newer vs. the older model years were any different.
Also, this spring we had a young lady pull in front of our rig when traffic was slowing dramatically and then she hit her brakes hard. I saw the back end of her car go under our front end, then the trunk lid, then her back widow glass disappeared so that all we could see was the roof top of her little black Mustang. I was sure we were going to squash her. The result, we didn't even connect. There was no damage to her car or our coach. Since I had my Horn Button pushed all the way to the floor board of the coach, I do imagine she had to clean our her front seat after the incident. Those Hadley's are great!!!
I think the the high riding position of the Grand Villa provides a safety factor. It makes you think you are closer to an object than you really are. I actually look down on many truckers. Of course I am taller than Gary.
Hi Everyone:
I was chatting with Barry Brideau via email about the 1991 GV I won on eBay and he told me it was the topic of discussion here. Wow, great forum and lots of good people and information. My wife Tammy and I are getting back in the game after being RV-less for 6 years. (Previous coach was a 2001 Fleetwood Expedition 36').
Does anyone have a recommendation for Foretravel service in the Minneapolis area. As soon as we get it home we would like to have it checked over.
Peter and Tammy
Peter and Tammy,
Congratulations on your new Foretravel! How about listing your year and model in the "profile"? Makes it easier to steer you to service, etc. for your exact model.
Hope to hear a lot more about you guys, your coach and your new adventures.
Pierce
Peter & Tammy
The DW & I had been watching this coach as soon as it hit eBay. It seemed to have some nice upgrades along w/ what looks like fairly good preventive maintenance. We would all like to know how everything turns out. So let us know...and the more pics the better.
Thanks in advance.
Bill & Jan
FT wannabees
Well, I thought it was time for an update on the 1991 40 ft Grand Villa we won on eBay with the "cow catcher". On the way home from Naples Florida to Minnesota my son and I stopped at Parliament Motor Coach in Clearwater, Fl to have the genny and engine oil changed and have everything checked over. It was discovered that the air bags were in pretty bad shape and I decided to have all 8 replaced. The only problem was they had to be ordered, and this required us to stay over the weekend. Parliament Motor Coach was very accomodating - they loaned us a shop truck for the weekend to run errands and shop for supplies, etc. Monday afternoon they had us on our way. Great bunch of guys. If you like you can read my testimonial on their web site.
Back in Minnesota for the last few weeks I have been fixing things that have been neglected over the years:
- Installed new Simmons Beautyrest Queen mattress in the state room
- Installed a new color backup camera and monitor from TadiBrothers (great product!)
- Re-wired the fridge to run off the inverter while driving
- Sanded and re-polished the headlights with 3M headlight kit (great product!)
- Replaced many burned out light bulbs
- Shampooed the carpet
- Had a "check engine light" repaired at Interstate Power here in Minneapolis - it was a $50 module about the size of a cigarette pack that reads the coolant temperature
Foretravel of Texas has been awesome - they have answered many "what does this switch do" questions!
Our next planned trip is to visit the Zip Dee awning factory in Elk Grove Village, IL in September to have the awning spring repaired and a new fabric installed.
Peter and Tammy
Howdy Peter and Tammy,
Sounds like you guys are doing a great job!!! I was wondering if you used the wired or wireless camera/monitor?? I've been checking out their website and looks like great products..
We are scheduled in at Zip Dee in Elk Grove on Sept. 6 to have the NX upgrade, that reverses the rafter arms. here's a link: NX Hardware Upgrade Kit (http://awningsbyzipdee.com/60401/60422.html)
Maybe we'll see you there..
Good Luck with your projects, Dave A
Peter,
Let me know when you will be in Elk Grove - I live in the Chicago Area.
One tip for Chicago - if you are oming to Chicago and wonder where to stay, do what I do. I keep my coach at a facility in WI, but when I want my coach in the city, I park it at the OVersize vehicle parking lot at O'Hare. $9 a day. Secure and safe, close to the expressways and MASS transportation since it is by O'Hare. 25 minute drive to the city. Yes, you can dry camp there, and stay for a LONG time if you want. Top off the water, empty the tanks, check the oil in the Genny and come spend a few days enjoying Chicago.
Sort of like the Liberty Harbor RV park in NJ, lots of black top and convenience, not much for ambiance. 24 hour patrolled security - I have never had a problem when I left the coach, or dry camped there. They want you in the wide open area in the rear of the lot, works perfect. Little hint. If you drive in hooked up, unhook and drive out your toad, you only pay for the toad ($2) when you leave. When you go back, you get a new ticket, hook up and drive out. $2 more bucks. Yes, I have left the coach there for over a week, total cost $4. I have had many friends use this lot for their Chicago stays in their RV's with no issues.
Otherwise, all the rest of the RV parks are at least an hour from downtown Chicago.
Dave:
Well, I initially tried the wireless setup (camera and monitor are the same for wired or wireless). What you get are a transmitter & receiver that plug into the RCA video connectors at both ends. Maybe for a shorter coach this will work ok, but for our 40 footer the picture was not always clear, and had some static as you pass by overhead power lines, etc.
So, I unhooked the transmitter & receiver and hard wired using a video cable with RCA male plugs on each end. This resulted in a perfect clear picture all the time. It's extra work, but I would recommend hard wiring.
Also, I ordered the HD option ($50 additional).
Thanks for the tip on the Zip Dee NX upgrade - I will check to see if we can get that installed. Our appt is on Tuesday Sept 11. We are planning to camp in the Zip Dee lot Monday night.
Tim:
Thanks for the great tips for staying near Chicago!
Peter
Howdy Peter,
Thanks for the feedback..Just hoping the wireless would work...
TTYL, Dave A
What camera a monitor set up did you get? Any chance you could post a link? I am guessing that you paid $50 extra for a high definition set up... sounds very reasonable!
Don
Dave, I'm guessing you already know this but it is very easy to use the existing wiring from camera to monitor by just using adapters or in some cases making up an extension for and external camera. I am not aware of any camera/monitor setup that requires running new wire.
One additional thought is that you can use the wireless function to pretty easily mount side cameras by pulling power from the remote side mirrors. Most LCD monitors will accommodate multiple input screens.
Zip Dee appears to have a lot of neat accessories that I don't remember!
Howdy Kent,
Good to hear from you. Yes, I was aware the existing wiring would work, just looking a other options..I'm kind - of kicking around the idea of adding some side views..Mainly in the "air bubbling" stage. These guys look like they have great products/solutions..
TTYL, Dave A
Cow Catcher, Hahahahaha, We call them Bulls Bars here, Necessity as the roads are full of Kangaroos, Wallabies, Wombats, And if you hit them, they make a mess of what ever hits them, Car, Bike, Bus, Truck, Etc,
You cant pull up a RV in a hurry,
So the first thing I will put on my Grand Villa will be a solid Bull Bar,