We will be leaving Denver in a few weeks and heading west over the Rockies. We would love to hear from the voices of experience any tips/pitfalls of mountain driving you may have encountered along the way.
We are planning on stopping near Grand Junction (winery), then Moab & finally the Grand Canyon (very excited). We would love to hear about any other places you may have enjoyed along this route.
Thanks
Christi & Ray
Is Denver home or are you staying in a park there? I'm looking for a good park in the Denver area.
Just take it slow and steady and you'll be fine!
[Snip: We will be leaving Denver in a few weeks and heading west over the Rockies. We would love to hear from the voices of experience any tips/pitfalls of mountain driving you may have encountered along the way. - Christi & Ray]
We traveled from the Denver area to Grand Junction on US-70 about this time last year. No problems crossing the Rockies, thou it's a fairly long pull and there's the Eisenhower Memorial Tunnel, which in heavy traffic requires a little "focus" and the retarder can push your transmission temps coming down the other side. There are numerous good to great wineries in and around Grand Junction, (and in Palisade and Clifton) as you suggested. (We carried home several cases.) One thing to keep in the back of your mind is the Antelope herds in western Colorado. We knew to be alert and careful, (years of motorcycle riding) but still had "an encounter".
<DISCLAIMER>My opinion. Take it FWIW. Others will vary. Blah, blah, blah!</DISCLAIMER>
Don't pass the trucks, especially going down hill. Your nerves, brakes, and transmission will probably remain cooler than if you do pass them.
If you are taking a big motorhome, take a Foretravel. We have driven through mountains in a 37' SOB DP with exhaust brake and no toad. We have driven through mountains in a 36' Foretravel DP with retarder and toad. The FT is way better! :D
Assume Cummins C engine.
Do you have an exhaust brake?
Allison 4 speed or 6 speed?
We have picked up fresh fruit on the western side of the state along I-70.
We enjoyed Portal RV in Moab. The off the road location, with the view thru the portal down the river is worth the price.
We looked at the other RV parks, and liked that this one was the furthest from the highway. They have two sections, older and basic and less money. They also have owner for sale lots, that are resort style, and have access to the pool. Spring for the better spots, with the pool and bath house.
Noted the temps in Moab are cooler than Ft. Worth!
Just returned last week from Lake City Colorado, just south of Gunnison. Coming from San Antonio, the weather was amazing. Was able to test out my new BD Exhaust brake. 2nd gear, 2400 RPM and never touched the brakes down Monarch Pass. 11,000 ft. So much more enjoyable than last year when we were "exhaust brakeless"
Don't ride the brakes heading downhill, use the retarder. If the trans starts to get warm, pull over for a few minutes. Make a quick check of the air pressure before steep descents. Part of your trip will be really warm. Keep uphill engine temps reasonable by shifting down, using slow lane.
Moab has a lot to see. Lots of roads to explore if you have 4WD. Arches has great view campsites. Not sure about 40' fitting so ask ahead.
AAA has an outstanding map called Indian Country. Good book to go with it covering all campsites at Amazon: Amazon.com: Southwest Camping Destinations: RV and Car Camping Destinations in (http://www.amazon.com/Southwest-Camping-Destinations-Arizona-Mexico/dp/0974947199)
Check online for suggested routes to see as much as you can.
Pierce
Do you have an exhaust brake on your 280? If not, when reaching the top of a grade, try not to exceed 50-55 at the most. Downshift and brake, keep your RPM's (assuming you have the C8.3 Cummins) not much more than 2200 (brief periods, 5-10 seconds, up to 2300-2400) while descending. Intermittent braking to bring it down to 45, then let the transmission do the braking as the speed and RPM's increase back up and so on.
@Christis I've driven all over Colorado. Yes there are some big hills. Just slow down enjoy the view. Watch your temp gauge. Use a lower gear to keep the rpm's up for better cooling. On the down hills take the first few at slow speed using your retarder (if you have one) and lower gears. After you've done a couple you'll figure out what speed is comfortable. Error on the side of safety. Remember that's your family on board. :) Moab will be hot this time of year. Be sure to get a 50 amp spot. You'll need both air conditioners! Beautiful country though. Right in the middle of the Colorado Plateau. Colorado Plateau - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=Colorado+Plateau&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) Dori and I will be there the entire month of October.
@txfortravel Only one real RV park to speak of. It's in Golden, CO west of Denver in the foothills about a mile off of I70. Dakota Ridge RV Park. Essential Colorado RV Resorts - Dakota Ridge - www.essentialcoloradorv.com (http://www.essentialcoloradorv.com/dakota-ridge/) RV Park Reviews :: Golden, Colorado ( CO ) - RV Parks and Campground Reviews (http://rvparkreviews.com/regions/Colorado/Golden.html) It's a little pricy for what you get but the only other choices are city and state parks or slummy trailer parks. We really like Chief Hosa Campground. It's owned by the city of Denver but is closer to Evergreen. It's in the foothills west of Denver. The sites are surrounded by pine trees and is at least 10℉ cooler than denver. Now the down side. All gravel. Only 2 sites have sewer and I have one of em'. :) They do have a dump station. Mostly 30amp but a few 50amp. We've managed on one air so far and have been here all summer. I see you're 42ft. We're 40ft and it's pretty tight but doable.
PM me when you're coming. Maybe we can meet up.
see ya
ken
Thanks for the re-assurance. It's funny - we lived here for years - 60 for Ray, 26 for me - and never thought twice about hopping in the car & heading west - I'm sure after the first few climbs we'll have it figured out.
We have the Allison 6 speed and a PAC brake on our FT. We have no doubt the FT will handle the trip - she's been great so far! Fortunately we are not in any hurry and don't plan on doing much passing! ^.^d
I still need to pick a park in Moab - I will check out Portal RV.
@txforetravel - like Ken said not much near Denver except State parks - Cherry Creek Reservoir on the south end and St Vrain on the north end.
Chad & Judy - did you have a favorite winery? We were thinking Two Rivers - but would love any recommendation.
@Christis We liked Spanish Trails RV Park a little south of Moab. They had a good monthly rate. We'll probably check out Portal this year. It's on the river and looks a little nicer. Have to see what the rate is. :)
see ya
ken
I've not yet been to Colorado yet, but I've been running up and down the hills here in Arizona, and to and form San Diego. So far the highest transmission temps I've seen are just a little over 200 degrees. I can't remember what the normal temp is, I'm thinking it's around 180. How hot is too hot when using the retarder?
[Snip: Chad & Judy - did you have a favorite winery? We were thinking Two Rivers - but would love any recommendation.]
Yes! Two Rivers is where we purchased several cases. We found their wines quite good, (thou not at bargain-basement prices).
OK, with that combination, driving UP hill: You can lug your Cummins engine down to peak torque before downshifting for best MPG--putting the Allison in Economy Mode allows lower RPM's before it downshifts. However, if coolant temperatures rise, use the down arrow and/or push the mode button again to select power mode. Your speed will be faster than loaded 18 wheelers and slower than empty ones (straight physics).
Going downhill: Choose a gear (use down/up arrows) and exhaust brake to hold your speed in EQUILIBRIUM. By that, I mean a speed where the use of your gears and exhaust brake with little or no use of service brake allow you to descend without speeding up or slowing down. If you start to go faster, use the service brake firmly and long enough to allow you to drop to a lower gear. Service brakes are to be used only to slow you down so that you can shift to that next lower gear, NOT used full time as you descend to control speed. Depending on grade, equilibrium speed may be 15 MPH or 50 MPH. Physics dictates that your equilibrium speed will be faster than a loaded 18 wheeler, slower than an empty one. Using trucks to judge your speed is a good guide until you get familiar with mountain driving.
Assume your toad has an auxiliary brake system on it. If not, particularly if a heavy one, consider driving separately over particularly steep sections (and get one ASAP!).
Like most things, it gets much easier with a little practice.
Brett
Having the Silverleaf setup to show the retarder temp has been very informative. The hottest I have seen it was coming down a long hill into Durango, CO from the west. We were traveling about 50mph (maybe a bit faster) and the temp hit 300 degrees! The trans instantly shifted into 3rd and with maximum RPM the retarder temp fell rapidly into a more reasonable range. This was an automatic shift. The temperature fell to a lower level due to better cooling with higher engine revs and slower speed.
From then on I have tried to keep my speed in the 40s for long hills. Usually I am in 5th gear, but can easily shift down to 4th if I need more cooling from higher RPM. Also with a lower gear one is going slower which means less energy is being transferred to the retarder per unit time. Normally at that speed the retarder temp will stay below 250 or so. The trans temp is significantly lower until the retarder is off and its hotter ATF is allowed to flow in with the rest of the transmission fluid.
A hill descending proverb taught to me as I was learning to drive a big rig: "You can descend many hills too slowly, but you will descend only one too fast." Brett's approach is absolutely correct, use the gearing and the exhaust or compression brake that will minimize the use of the service brake or as Brett puts it, "hold your speed in EQUILIBRIUM".
Roland
The Allison manual indicates 250 as the not to exceed number. That's the temp at the sump which is where the dash gauge and the regular VMS gets its data. It's 300, like George says, at the converter. I still need to make that software change so I can have that temp too. Guess I better review some old posts.
jor
Thanks George, The steepest hill I've descended is Heading east out of San Diego on the I-8 from 4500' down to 0' west of El Centro. The main factor was that by the bottom of the hill the outside temps were around 110. I don't have The Silver Leaf set up, I'm looking at my dash gauge and I think my Cummins information display has the trans temp as well. I think I saw 212 on that read out, so nowhere near even 250. There are some bigger hills here in AZ but they are spread out over more distance. I have not tried down shifting, I will give that a try next time I'm on the road.
Keep in mind that retarder temp and trans temp are NOT the same. I think all the dash gauges show the trans temp. You would need a Silverleaf (or a new gauge) to see the readout coming from the retarder. Retarder Temperature on Silverleaf VMSpc (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=14573.msg85304#msg85304) I posted a video earlier this year that shows the difference. Retarder Temperature on Silverleaf VMSpc (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=14573.msg85737#msg85737) Normally my trans temp does not get over 220 even when the retarder is much higher.
George;
What is the process to display retarder temp? Or is a call to Silverleaf the best answer? Have been meaning to optimize our VMS-PC for some time and would appreciate any and all insights.
Thanks!
I've posted a lot of this in the past, but send me an email and I will send you what I have. You will need to download and install a special version of VMSpc.exe. Silverleaf can tell you how to do that, but I can too. You will also have to define a new gauge for the retarder temp. I have material on this too.
I thought I might add to do the speed limit when going down! Saw 2 troopers with trucks pulled over and a 3rd with a Marathon coach pulled over east bound between mile marker 254 and 260 on I70 dropping into Denver. The speed limit is 35 for vehicles over 26,000lbs 55 for all else.
I've driven that before in my coach plenty of times at 50 to 55. Only noticed the 35 mph sign the other day! There have been a couple of runaway trucks this year. Looks like they are stepping up enforcement. Be safe out there!
see ya
ken
Chad,
I'm not George, but using Search on the forum (if you haven't tried it, it's pretty good at finding posts/info) I believe the answers will be in this thread Silverleaf (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=15212.0)
well, this is an interesting post. I took I 70 west and my trans temp hit 248. I was in third gear on the way down the hill as the limit was 35 mph. It was not a hard trip and the FT handled it but the rise in the trans temp had me pull over one time to let it cool. It was in the high 90s though air temp and I think that hurt a bit. I took the same trip to CDL, ID last april with 40s as the high temps and I was 15 degrees cooler than I was on this trip on different grades.
I avoided the long steep grades when out west as I have no aux braking...just the service brakes. Even in the Blue Ridge last week there were spots where I lowered the gear to 4th and took it easy coming down. I'm not sure I buy into the "can't do it without the retarder or exhaust brake" as why would they build a MH that can climb any interstate in the country but I don't want to be the test case.
Trucks and buses without Jakes or retarders have been going down grades since they built roads. Only one apparatus I drove had a trans retarder (1000 gallons of water and 200 gallons of diesel) and my Buffalo bus conversion had only the drums to stop it. By downshifting and not riding the brakes, you can come down any grade. That's what the slow lane is for on the interstates. On grades using two lane roads, worry about yourself, NEVER the impatient traffic behind you.
If your brakes are in good shape and you are familiar with your transmission, just turn off the radio and pay attention. It's just no big deal. If still concerned, read about it online and get tips from professional long haul truckers before you head out.
The only rigs I have seen that got into trouble were in too much of a hurry and should have been down a couple more gears.
If you ever get side to side steering wheel movement when you apply the brakes or the brakes seem to catch and release when almost stopped, the disks or drums are warped/out of round and need to be replaced. It can get much worse (scary) when they are hot.
Pierce
There are many fantastic places along your route. Colorado National Monument at Grand Junction was built just for driving through. There is an east and west entrance. The campground is near the west entrance. The main part of the 2 lane paved road is up high on a mesa. The west end is a little bit steeper than the east end with lots of nice curves. We stayed in a private campground at Moab and used the toad to visit Arches and Canyonlands. Visit Landscape arch in the morning and Delicate Arch in the evening for good pictures. Dead Horse Point SP near Moab is supposed to be very nice, but I haven't been there. Indian fuel station at White Mesa on 191 south of Blanding if you are going through Monument Valley. Free camping at Goosenecks SP near Mexican Hat, (no Park personnel or facilities at Goosenecks). Utah 95 from Blanding to Capitol Reef NP and then Utah 12 to Bryce Canyon NP is a very scenic drive. Capitol Reef is a well kept secret. If you can't get in the campground at Grand Canyon try Ten X south of Tusayan. Have a great time.