Foretravel Owners' Forum

One of my jacks is leaking fluid. Hopefully it stays functional while on vacation (in Chatanooga today). Does this system have its own tank and where is it?

Same problem on my coach, and headed out this morning to pull the jack for a rebuild.  On my coach there is a pump and storage tank behind the front grill, left of center.

On the U240 it is mounted in the same location.  Much easier to see and access the reservoir and dipstick if you remove the right (passenger side) front grill. ATF is the fluid unless you have HWH jack fluid-- they are interchangeable.

Brett

There are two kinds of ATF.  Can't remember which one was correct?

Dexron.

It is the right rear jack and seems to be leaking from the higher inboard (harder to get to) fitting as it exists the jack rather than hose connection though I was able to get it a nudge tighter. The tank is on driver's side of center behind A/C evaporator.  Only access is from above and the cap has no dipstick and is small so I'm going to have to find something to use to ascertain the fluid level. Brett, thanks, I have ATF but no Dextron so I'll get some.

Hope you can tighten the fitting.  I found my leak is at the main seal.  I pulled it off and will see about a repair or re-build.

Gauged the tank with a screwdriver (which wasn't long enough to reach the bottom) but based on the level I'd say the tank is 2/3 full.  The jack pad was covered in ATF and the gravel surrounding it was discolored about the size of a pie plate so perhaps a cup of ATF at most leaked out while lowering the jack.  Does anyone know the capacity of this tank?  Is it likely that this will continue leaking similar amount or is it likely that after a few uses it will gush out all the fluid rendering my leveling system useless?  Basically, I'm looking for a description of what typically occurs when one of these jacks fail.

I am surprised that you did not have a dipstick attached to the reservoir cap. It is marked with FULL and ADD.  Check with all jacks retracted.

Brett

Just a small plastic knob about 2.5 inches in diameter with a threaded 1/2 inch piece that screws into the very small opening at top with no dipstick. Could be laying in the bottom if broken off I suppose. Definitely red ATF on screwdriver.

I had called HWH with my jack model #, and got a quote for repair/re-build @ $495 plus shipping (2 week turn around), or a new unit, in stock, for $702 plus shipping.

I took the unit to a hydraulic repair place this morning. And they offered to rebuild both the kick down and the main ram seals, one week, and for about $300.  They were very helpful to describe what they can do, how it is mostly labor costs.  I chose to go with a local rebuild, save the shipping, and hopefully a week or more of time.  I did read and heard people tell that these jacks could be one of three types.  Some come apart for rebuild, others are a pain, and some require cutting off the top of the cylinder and then re-welding.

Got my fingers crossed.

Oh wow.  I hoping that the little tightening will solve the problem but I'm not optimistic.  It wasn't leaking before.  I did just have the axles, brakes, differential checked and rear tires replaced.  Maybe someone grabbed the hose or something.

Oh well...still leaking.  I watched it this time and not much appears to come out (though it looks like it on the ground).

Really putting out some fluid by the time we got home.  There is an elbow shaped fitting that one of the hoses hooks up to and it looks to be leaking from where that elbow joins the body of the cylinder.  Dave, what is involved in taking one off?  I think your rig still has the swing up jack too.  Those springs look like fun. Can anyone give me a play by play on removing one of these jacks?

If it is the fitting leaking you might be able to pull the jack down and then install a block to hold the jack in the down position and screw out the fitting and install a new fitting.The springs are easiest to remove when the jack is in the up retracted position. You have to be careful taking them off.

I just used a lever/wrecking bar to pry the spring over the guiding curved steel part.  Not very easy, and hope that I can just pry them back on.  As I got one off the other side fell off.  I first tried to stack washers into the springs while they were stretched, and then planned to let it swing up and the washer would have kept the spring long.

It did not work as I had hoped, or like it works on a motorcycle side-stand spring.  I have stacked pennies into the open spaces of the spring when the stand is down, and then swung the stand up and the spring usually falls off the keeper.  Then you can clean, re-build, or replace with longer or shorter kick stand, and then re-hook the longer spring with all the pennies still jammed inside.

Talked to the re-builder, he admitted he had not looked at it yet, that was Friday.  I hope he will do the re-build, this week.  We are wanting to depart for cooler weather in the mountains of NM.

Good morning Dave, I had my rear jacks rebuilt at HWH last September. I made this spring expanding tool then and posted the pictures on this forum, here they are again. It worked for me.

Thanks, Mitch Sayer

Sorry, lets try again.

Thanks, Mitch

Dave and Dolly.
Your coach looks and sounds like my old 93 GV with the 610 kick down jacks and my cylinders were welded so could not be rebuilt easily as I had looked at doing it. I finished up getting HWH to ship one and sent my old back for core chg. The brass fittings are a std part from hyraulic parts place. One suggestion on replacing make sure the ground wire is good and has a good contact as they are the the signal sending wires for system.
JohnH

I think mine are the 510 series.  I talked to a guy who works on the other brand of these and he said you should be able to remove the whole jack with the springs still connected by disconnecting the hydraulic lines and removing the four bolts and the whole thing comes out as a unit. Is this not so?

Found a manual online.  I think it is leaking from the bottom of the actuator rather than from the fitting, which would indicate seals (I think).  The manual shows an actuator kit so that component must be repairable or replaceable.  I have a call in to HWH tech support. The actuator is the small cylinder connected to the jack on the left in the photo.

yes you can take it all off just take bolts off that hold it to frame. The actuator is easy to service just put it all back as it was.
John H

Thanks for the help on spring extender tool.  Now to get one built, it sure would make re-installation a snap.

I am hoping the rebuild can be done, as I have now lost a week with it sitting in the shop, HWH was two week turn around, and that was part of the reason I was trying a local source.

Can someone with the hydraulic levelers tell me about how long the dipstick is and at what points it is marked full and add so that I can get an idea what level I should be keeping in the tank until I can get this jack rebuilt?  I need to use the coach this weekend and I don't want to blindly add ATF.  Or perhaps could someone give me an idea with the jacks up, how much ATF should be in the tank?  Half? Three-Quarters?

my last GV had hyd jacks and I would think with all jacks up the tank level should be within 3/4" of bottom of neck.
John H

Thanks.  I didn't think it would be that close to the top.

Before I attempt to remove this jack...I guess the procedure is to have the jacks down, block the wheels, block up the frame near the jack, disconnect hydraulic lines and electrical connection and remove the four bolts.  I planning to use a floor jack to support the jack when I remove the bolts.  Does this sound right?

If the jacks are down and you remove the hyd lines etc the jack will kick up (I would think) and oil all over. Why not just support the jack while taking it off?? If you need to pull the cyl down to get at any bolt you can do it manually(meaning grab hold of it and pull it down). I would leave all jacks up. Thats how I did mine I seem to remember.
John H

definitly do not have the jacks down. Like John said manually pull down the jack to access the nuts on the bolts, then you can get at the hydraulic lines and the electrical wiring

You may have a different model jack than my '89 GV had, but that quote is WAY higher than what I paid a year ago for new and rebuild.  More than double!

HWH Has rebuilt jacks in stock, with a two year warranty (I think) or they will rebuild yours but very limited warranty.  I just overheard the talk between HWH man and a Fleetwood something owner.
Dave M

My slide rams were leaking, hwh price via MOT was $600 each, two weeks lead time, MOT had local shop rebuild in one day for $200 each after I said two weeks too long. If it is a hydraulic ram of any sort I would guess a shop that could rebuild will probably be nearby and cheaper. I would always go the rebuild route first

Got it off but don't look forward to putting it back on.  The electrical connection has me confused.  Looks like a wire with a round connector going to a bolt near the hinge...basically a ground with a hose type holder over the same bolt for one for one of the hydraulic lines and another set of wires combined in a flat type connector that is just secured up against the side of the jack with a hose clamp. 

That is the mercury switch that lights a light on the control to tell you that the jack is down and the wire that has the loop is the ground for that circuit

as I said, put it back the way you found it and make sure the ground connection is good and clean as that is the "signal" wire
JohnH

I used a rubber bungee cord to hold the jack down.  I'm most concerned about the one hydraulic line that has to be snaked through the jack.  I have pictures but I'm going to have to examine the other one to make sure I get it right.  Looks like this line is also wearing at one point.  Based on where it is I can't really see why.  I'm going to wrap it at that spot with that rubberized tape that is supposed to stop a leaky water pipe just to give it some insulation.  I used a long screwdriver and measured how much fluid is missing.  Took about 1/2 a quart to bring it back to where I think it should be.  Sure looks like a lot more than that leaked out.  I hope I can find a hydraulic shop willing to mess with it.  I noticed that it leaked a lot more when lowering them than when raising them.  I also had a lot more fluid come out of the hoses when I disconnected them than I was anticipating.

OK...found a hydraulic shop willing to work on it.  After I get it back...what is the proper procedure for hooking it back up with regard to getting the air out of the system?

Connect the hoses up and operate the jacks a few times. That is what I did and it worked fine.
John H

Well, picked up my re-built low profile, kick down HWH jack AP8125.  It has two parts to re-build, one being the kick down and the second the 2" ram seals.  Price was $297, as quoted two weeks ago.

I asked how they took it apart, since I had read sometimes they have to cut the top off.  He said not on my jack, as mine is assembled to be re-buildable.  He says more rams are being built that can not be rebuild to save assembly and force replacement with new ones.  Mine had two threaded nipples in about the middle of the body, on opposites sides, that allow them to see and move the keeper spring wire that surrounds the shaft to keep the ram from going all the way out.  Once the spring wire is moved the ram comes out as you would expect and allows a new seal to be installed from the "top" and down to the bottom keeper clip.

I too asked how to purge the air, and was told the same thing John Haygarth said, just install and cycle a couple of times.  I was warned the first couple of retracts will be slow till the seal is worked.

Thanks for the info on the wiring, as I too was wondering about the wire hose clamped to the barrel of the jack.

What series do you have?  Mine is HWH series 510M

Dwayne, if I remember correctly the difference between the 510 and 610 is just the capacity--5000 to 6000lbs. Maybe I should gooogle that before I post but I am sure that is all.
John H

Repair shop says the seals were fine but the actuator itself has a crack in it.  They were able to order one for $175 plus one hour labor so I guess I shouldn't complain.  I just had the coach into the frame and axle shop and had them check the brakes and then the tire shop.  I wonder if someone hit the thing hard with something cracking the actuator.  Seems like a strange thing to suddenly happen.

seems strange to me too as the actuator (as I remember) is a pretty solid piece of brass, but maybe something got caught while operating. I would have fixed the crack if it had been mine, but maybe they do not do that?
John

Installed the re-built jack today.  Biggest challenge was to re-install the retract springs.  I had just pried them off, over the steel guide.  And they sort of finally fell off and onto the shop floor.  I naively thought I could hook up the foot ends, and the link ends and pry them back on.  Nope, not by myself.

I was going to have to stretch the spring, and ended up with a very simple solution.  I measured the length from the foot, over the steel guide, to the link joining the two jack springs.  I figured an extra 4 inches was needed.  I had my truck hitch, and the Saturn bumper hitch, and a ratchet strap.  After pulling it 5" longer, I could easily put 50 2" screws thru the spring. The stretched spring even had some bend that helped, and after hooking the top to the cross link from the other spring, and to the landing pad foot. I started removing the screws one at a time.    As the screws were removed the spring slowly settled into position over the steel guide.  Then I lowered the jack, to stretch the springs, and the rest of the screws fell out.

I then removed the passenger side grill and checked the fluid level after cycling the jacks 3 times.  I do not have a dipstick attached to the cap.  There is a hex shaped recess in the bottom of the cap that a stick might have once been inserted into.  The cap does have a shaft and a bottom flange that reaches about 1" into the tank.  I measured the fluid from the top lip and it is 1 1/2" below the top of the threaded cap nipple sticking up from the flat top of the tank.  My guess is with jacks up, I have maybe 1" or less of space in the tank.

isn't the human brain a wonderful thing-very imaginative.
John H

Now I know why I was having so much trouble checking the fluid!  Glad I read this.

"isn't the human brain a wonderful thing-very imaginative."
John H
Some of them
billchaplin

I'm glad I determined not to take the springs off.  There must be a poor dipstick to cap solution.

If your main seal had to be replaced, someone would have had to remove those springs in order to let the main ram drop out of the cylinder.  I sure hope that there is some really neat machine or way to remove and re-install those springs.

We both need to thank Brett Wolf, he suggested the grill removal trick.

Little over $200 for the new actuator.  The old one was cracked at the lower L fitting.  Easier to put on than take off.  After removing the jack last week, I checked the fluid level and it was only down about 1/2 a quart, which I topped off.  After getting it back on I tried cycling it and they would swing down but not come the rest of the way down and it was making a different noise.  After several attempts I checked the fluid.  It was very low.  I don't know where all the fluid went.  I looked around and can't find any sign of leakage.  When I lowered the hoses from where I had them stuck up out of the way some fluid came out but not nearly enough to account for nearly the whole tank.  I went and bought some fluid and had used Dexron VI but at this store they had DEX III M for older transmissions so I am assuming this is closer to original Dexron.  I think the VI is synthetic and the III isn't.  Hope I didn't screw up mixing them.  After adding three quarts, the units cycled properly several times and sounds normal.  I am still at a loss as to what happened to all the fluid.  The hydraulic shop did a good job and the people were very friendly.  Hydraulic Professionals Inc. on 34th Street just north of Adamo (60) about a mile.