Hello!
We stopped just before starting to cross Kit Carson Pass. CA-88. All of a sudden the engine hiccuped a few times and then stopped hiccuping.. It acted like a bit of bad fuel. Never happened before.
After crossing the pass the transmission started acting up. Rough shifts. Slipping between gears. Finally at a stop where my highway dead ended into another the transmission slipped so much the FT didn't even try to move. I noticed the transmission board did not agree with the VMS 240 CL - and it had a red dot near its top right.
I could see a tow in my future - and all the folks behind me were not real interested in figuring out how to get around me.
I shut down the engine and restarted it. The transmission behaved normally the rest of the way, even on CA Hwy 49. So did the VMS. I wondered if the VMS could have caused the problem?
The behavior to me sounds like electronics.
Crossing the pass was pretty benign. Transmission temp not higher than 220.
Suggestions?
best, paul
I'm sure others will chime in but it does sound like you had a bad connection (temporey one)from trans. Scary at the time.
John
"Scary" doesn't even come close to describing the feeling ;o)
best, paul
Hows your system voltage? Low voltage makes Alison erratic.
Chuck
The "pucker" factor jumps way, way up when something like that happens and is erratic. Paul, you have my sympathy! Been there, had that!
That could be it.
While stopped at the highway intersection I had the emergency lights on and I noticed the audio beeping inside was weak. I didn't think to look at system voltage.
I'm also wondering if the earlier engine "coughing" and later transmission failures are related.
best, paul
Yeah. My sphincter ani externus is still sore ;o)
best, paul
Yup. Low voltage does that too.... I had it one time with a weak battery and I hit the boost switch and it stopped.
#1 guess would be the Cole-Hersee under dash solenoid as it may be going bad. Use digital multimeter to check voltage on both sides. Ignition switch would be #2 guess. Make sure to get the latest model solenoid. Usually these symptoms get worse not better. Have posted the twin digital voltmeters I installed in the dash a couple of years ago. EZ to check electrical system health and for only $16/both delivered, how can you go wrong? Cig lighter digital meters are another good idea. Only $2.50/each delivered. Does the same thing as one lighter plug is coach, the other is engine.
Pierce
Pierce's post with photos and info here:
Boost switch, not boosting... (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=15661.msg97298#msg97298)
-M
Is this the solenoid you are referring to?
( http://www.allbatterysalesandservice.com/browse.cfm/4,7650.html )
best, paul
Paul,
Yes, that's it.
Paul,
Confirm what part is bad before you start buying and changing parts.
"Confirm what part is bad before you start buying and changing parts."
Well, the last time I did it, it worked out pretty well. I guessed the problem was the generator voltage regulator, took a new one to R Mechanic in Livermore, CA and asked them to replace it.
I think I got out of there paying less than if I had asked them to diagnose, find the right part and order it.
Besides, these parts aren't that expensive compared to hourly charges.
best, paul
Paul,
This is the latest in the Cole-Hersee 200 amp line. It has silver tungsten instead of silver contacts. Solenoids & Relays | Steel & Phenolic Body Solenoids24213 | Cole Hersee - (http://www.colehersee.com/home/item/cat/168/24213/)
You could also go to a solid state solenoid. The cost is a lot more but will likely last longer.
The 24213 is also used as the boost solenoid so good to have one on board.
Check all connections as they could be loose from vibration and be the culprit. Intermittent electrical problems are one of the hardest things to solve. When I say connections, start at the battery (both + and -) and go forward including starter connection. Hidden gremlins like staying that way. Some intermittent problems may not be noticed because of a very short duration but in the worse case, can cause voltage spikes that engine/transmission computers and other electrical accessories don't like at all. One of the causes of expensive aircraft radio failures are voltage spikes.
Perhaps another forum member has had a like problem. Nice to be able to learn from others experience.
An hour of troubleshooting labor at a shop buys a lot of solenoids, etc. A lot of shops replace parts as part of the troubleshooting experience until the problem goes away.
A mom/pop electrical shop may be able to suggest a fix based on their long experience without costing an arm or leg. I have no faith in the CW type shops. You pay for them to learn.
A hand held digital voltmeter can find bad connections with high resistance, lower voltage on one side. With your radio/satellite background, you are probably the expert with them.
Pierce
And there is always the Solenoid Switch L-Series 12-24V - PN 9012 - Blue Sea Systems (http://bluesea.com/products/9012)
I drove the Foreteavel today for the first time in 8 days.
The engine started up normally. I always use boost.
It didn't take long for the engine to "cough" once.
I didn't rely on the boost switch on alone, I started the generator, too.
The dash monitor did show a voltage of only 12.4v at one point until I started the generator. Then the voltage was 12.9 to 13.2.
After that the 120 mile trip to the San Francisco Bay Area was uneventful. No engine or transmission hints of a problem.
So it appears now the problem is low voltage, as suggested earlier here.
Where to start?
best, paul
It's summer so you should not need boost to start it. Good idea to see how it starts on the engine batteries and at the same time check on their condition by how fast it turns over with the boost switch "off."
Check voltage with multimeter AT batteries with engine off and then engine running. Check voltage at the isolator on the supply terminal/cable.
You should see approx. 13.5 to 14.5 or so with the engine running. This should be at the large center terminal. Then check voltage at the other large terminals on each side for the engine and the house batteries. Isolator is just in front of the house batteries inside the last driver's side compartment.
If the engine coughed, it could be low voltage on the engine batteries. Generator only charges house unless boost switch is "on."
If low voltage at the alternator terminal (center) on the isolator, you could have a bad alternator or alternator regulator. Running the generator with the boost switch will keep both batteries charged if engine alternator is bad in a pinch.
If you come over to the Sacramento area, I will be glad to meet you with my meter and take a look tomorrow. Call me at 530.477.7465
Pierce
I don't know that I "need" to use boost. It's simply my SOP.
Recommended by James T.
Thanks for the offer to come to Sacramento. Very kind of you. But I'll see what I can see here first.
Just now, connected to shore power and no boost on, the dash monitor showed 13v with the ignition switch ON one click. Ignition switch OFF I see 13-13.1v.
The Link 2000 shows 13.2v (float charge)
I assume the dash monitor measures starter battery volts. Correct?
best, paul
Paul,
Occasional starting on just the engine batteries should be done by checking the voltage at the batteries with a meter and then do a cold start with someone reading the cranking voltage also back at the batteries. After the engine has started, you should do a hand check to see if any cables are warm to the touch. Any warmth detected indicates resistance in the cable connections. The battery is the only place to accurately check battery voltage. Battery voltage will not stabilize and show the true voltage until six hours after charging. In other words, after you shut off the engine, the indicated voltage will gradually drop for 6 hours. This procedure is a poor man's battery condition checker. Here is a site that better explains the procedure: Voltage Drop Testing (http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm)
I got rid of my CRT display and put the digital voltmeters in so I don't know without looking at a schematic which battery it reads.
The voltage you are reading while plugged into shore power does not show the health of the charging system used while the engine is running. I have the U280/U300 electrical schematic and can attach it if you would like but it should be in your big black Foretravel manual toward the back.
Bill Chaplin made a large copy for me from a store like Kinko Copies. It sure makes figuring problems out as is 100 times easier to read than the small pages in the book. Only $2-3 dollars to make the enlargements but worth their weigh in gold when the chips are down.
You could plug in a cigar lighter digital voltmeter into the dash 12V outlet and also the lighter 12V outlet that is next to the air ride controls. Not as accurate as being at the batteries but fairly close to check both engine and house batteries.
If you don't have one, Home Depot, Radio Shack, Harbor Fright, Lowes all have digital voltmeters.
Offer is still open or just call.
Pierce
Yeah, I bought 2 digital VMs a week ago.
They should be here at our daughters somewhere.
But since we've both been on the road for weeks it still a mad house finding things.
best, paul
I'll have to add a third scare. I had an appointment to take our FT into R Mechanic in Livermore, CA today.
I've had the boost on several times over the weeks to charge the starter batteries. Even had the boost on today.
But I thought I'd see if the starter batteries alone (I usually start with the boost on) would start the engine - and the engine did start as far as it did.
Moreover, the boost light would not come on, even tho it HAD been on a few minutes earlier.
In any event, the engine would almost start, I saw oil pressure (of course - its' an M11), then quickly quit - repeatedly. The engine never really got to a full start.
Any ideas are welcome before I call road service.
best, paul
My VMS says "No faults"
And I must have at least 75 gals of fuel. Certainly 25% (50 gal or so) since the generator runs.
best, paul
Did it turn over well? My battery connections loosen over time and need to be snugged up
I had the generator running a few times I tried to start the engine. No change, just a partial start and then quit.
Could it be the voltage regulator/alternator failed AND the boost switch/boost solenoid failed and the engine stopped because of no electricity?
I do have a new 200 amp boost solenoid I was going to have installed today.
best, paul
Yes, it turned over well. But never fully started. Just suddenly quit even though I saw oil pressure rising. And VMS says "No faults"
best, paul
I've suspected from the start that this was an electrical problem since running with generator on and boost switch on the engine failures and transmission failures went away.
If the boost solenoid failed would that mean the boost switch would not light?
best, paul
Where is the boost solenoid? I don't see any wall panel in the house battery compartment.
best, paul
Hi Paul,
On my 1997 the boost solenoid is near the isolator, next to the driver side rear wheel. Not the best area. On later models they moved it to the electrical area at the foot of the bed. Open the bed cover and it may be right in the front area. It is under a quarter inch piece of plywood that acts as a cover for the electrics. I hope this helps.
Raymond
Thanks! My boost solenoid is right above my isolator. It not as big as my new 200 amp continuous one ;o)
Now at least I can have road service do something I wanted done anyway.
best, paul
Paul,
Have you eliminated the possibility of plugged fuel filter(s)? The fact that it almost starts, then stops, might indicate a fuel supply issue.
Paul,
Just FYI the bulb in the boost switch is notorious for burning out. I'd meter it first before assuming the switch itself isn't working.
Michelle
No, I've not eliminated the possibility of plugged fuel fiters. But there was no problem starting at time or two when I arrived here Sep 4.
And at that time I needed the generator and boost to keep the engine and transmission from acting up.
And at that time the engine would "cough" right after starting, without generator/boost, which is similar to what happened today. I suspected fuel problem then but it never "coughed" when generator/boost was on.
Would a fuel problem show up as a fault? My VMS claims "No faults."
best, paul
Is the boost bulb burned out?
I detect no change in the volts at the boost solenoid when I have the boost switch on or off.
But being a Civil, not Electrical, Engineer, I'd guess the boost switch or boost solenoid is bad. But the boost switch did work this morning (at least in the sense it lit up).
I'd also guess that with a good bulb and good switch the light will light only if the boost solenoid is working.
best, paul
The boost switch bulb has a fairly short life, at least in my case. I think I have replaced it every 8 or 9 months. I've not had a problem with the solenoid itself.
Mike
2003 u295
when my boost solenoid stoped working, the light on the switch stayed on.
Dang, gotta stop reading about all these failures on the forum. Had no problems with my boost switch.....till this morning that is. Turned on the boost, the light did not go on and I did not get any boost from the house batteries when starting the engine either. Something else to put on my "to do" list. Life is good.
Roland
My problem turned out to be a bad alternator PLUS gelled fuel. Alternator replaced. Water separator replaced. Fuel filters replaced.
No problem on highway. But engine stopped once while at idle. And hesitated once or twice. There must be some gelled fuel still in the system.
Is the solution to just continue to burn thru the bad fuel? Or prayer and fasting? ;o)
Previous fuel filter change in May 2012 9,000 miles ago.
best, paul
Paul,
Diesel gels when it's not formulated for the temperature. Problems usually occur when you refuel in the south and travel north or up. Add an anti-gel additive and top off with fuel at your current location.