Is any one here using synthetic oil in there engine and what are your thoughts?
What is the suggested oil change schedule with Rotella T synthetic oil vs Rotella T regular oil?
I was able to buy Rotella T6 Synthetic 5W-40 oil yesterday for $13.76/gal at our local Meijer's store. In fact I bought all their stock, 20 gallons. The next closest price was at Walmart for Rotella T @ $12.97 for regular oil.
I guess that should hold me over for a "few" miles.
It is not that much to change the oil but if you wanted to run synthetic oil and extended drain intervals, you still have to send off samples for analysis... So if you are crawling under there anyway, why not change it.
What is the oil change interval for your engine using mineral oil? If that number does not exceed your annual driving miles, why switch to synthetic? You need to change the oil annually anyway.
Peter
I use AMSOIL synthetics in all places (even Allison) I use 15/40 marine/diesel in engine. Coach had it before I bought it too. I find the 2 samples I had done 2 yrs ago after 10k that it was almost the same as new. I am a dealer so it is also cheaper for me and I supply a couple of Deisel mechanics in town who have been using it for many years on their 350's. They rebuild Diesel engines for a living and say you only have to take one apart and can see the difference it makes with less wear. They will not stop using it.
That was good enough for me to continue.
Time is the big factor of course
John H
I took many aircraft engines apart. All of them that had been using synthetic oil had little to no wear on major parts like cams, cranks and lifter assemblies and the inside of the motors was always much cleaner. If you go 1 year with regular oil or one year with synthetic oil, the wear will be less in your motor....... On the down side, $12-13+ a gallon for a 20+ gallon oil change is pretty darn expensive.........plus regular oil in these diesels has proven itself over and over. A conundrum for sure!
I have used Amsoil in my U270 since I bought it almost 5 years ago. I do the oil analysis every year, change filters and top off the oil. Went 4 years without an oil change, the last oil analysis still showed oil was good but getting dirty. I was having MOT change my Transmission fluid and rear axle, so I decided to change the oil then also. Amsoil in everything now and will use the oil analysis to determine when to change.
Like John, I am also a dealer and get it at dealer costs. Preferred Customers can buy at dealer costs for their own use-FYI. Contact me or John for more information about that.
Ted 2001 U270
I converted to AMSoil synthetic everywhere (engine, tranny, diff, wheel bearings, grease) for lower friction, lower fuel consumption, lower running temperatures, greater heat tolerance and extended change intervals. With by-pass filter on engine and annual oil analysis, I expect to change engine oil in 5 years. After changing in California and driving to Canada, pulled dip stick and looked at crystal clear oil, like it had just been changed. Running synthetic in transmissions with retarders is highly recommended by Alison.
Cummins recommendation is no difference in change interval with synthetic. Check your owner's manual for your engine. Most of us do annual changes unless we have the Centinel system.
Is anyone using the synthetic oil you can buy at Walmart in their Cummins? We have the 5.9B mechanical (1993) engine. Just wondering what to move to as none of the synthetics on our WM shelves mention diesel use.
Craig
Walmarts frequently have Rotella synthetic. Don't use any oil that doesn't have diesel spec., currently CJ.
They will not say "for diesels", but on the back of the jug, you will find the API donut symbol. The symbol for
diesel is C and the symbol for gas is S. Find the
API Service C inside the donut circle and you will be all set. The CJ 4 is the current best. The Rotella T6 will work just fine in your Cummins 5.9 and has excellent reviews and analysis for that application over at Bob Is The Oil Guy forum. In fact I would not hesitate in running any Rotella T "C "category oil in your engine. The Rotella T6 is the current top of the line diesel motor oil offered by Shell Rotella.
(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aa1car.com%2Flibrary%2FAPI_donut.gif&hash=a8f89c47903a2f8a41bccba2cea464a7" rel="cached" data-hash="a8f89c47903a2f8a41bccba2cea464a7" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.aa1car.com/library/API_donut.gif)
(Do not run the S categories in a diesel engine. But you can run a combination C & S category in a diesel.)
Some more API CERTIFICATION MARK AND SERVICE SYMBOL reading: http://www.api.org/certification-programs/engine-oil-diesel-exhaust-fluid/~/media/Files/Certification/Engine-Oil-Diesel/Publications/Engine-Oil-Guide-2010-120210.ashx (http://www.api.org/certification-programs/engine-oil-diesel-exhaust-fluid/~/media/Files/Certification/Engine-Oil-Diesel/Publications/Engine-Oil-Guide-2010-120210.ashx)
Thanks, Pat. :)
Craig
Since we're looking more and more at 93-94 U300 coaches that have the 2-cycle Detroits in them, should we be thinking about synthetic oil in them, too? This will be my first diesel engine, and I don't want to destroy it by doing something stupid.
No, The DD engines ,2 cycle require straight 40 wt oil, not 15 W-40 or any other miracles.
Dave M
Thanks, Dave. I assume, then, that there is no straight 40 weight synthetic oil?
Synthetic oils are the only oils used in jet aircraft and that is how the motor industry use got started. It was Al Amatuzio (founder of Amsoil) that while being a fighter pilot could not figure out why aircraft use it but not the auto industry. He soon found out as it was the industry not basically bringing it in as it would cut a large part of their income off. He single handed started all the testing etc needed and came up with the business today. It is the #1 oil in racing and offshore racing boats and getting bigger in motocycling racing. Their testing has proven it is better than mineral oils and stands up to heat and wear much better. Why would a person not use it, even if it is a tad more expensive. The Foretravel we all own is a bit more expensive than a similar SOB, BUT we know the difference in quality, and it is the same in oils. Protecting my engine, tranny etc are important to me.
IMHO
John H
Just a basic note. Your basic oil rarely wears out, whether dino or synthetic. It's the additive package that is used up, whether it's neutralizing acid or holding soot in suspension. That's why we change oil as scheduled. Additive packages vary greatly between S and C oils, but little between dino and synthetic.
I agree with amos. I saw an independent test done comparing syn and real oil and the conclusion was that in EXTREME heat and EXTREME cold, syn will flow better, but as for the over all lubricity they were found to be the same. Oil changes are recommended the same but for the cost, Consumer Digest says to stay with regular oil. I would use it in my tranny and never change it, but my engine gets regular oil. I use syn in the Harley, though, because of the heat factor.
"Synthetic oils are the only oils used in jet aircraft engines"
Jet engine is NOT a reciprocating, oil slinging, vibrating, mass trying to tear its self to pieces.
The oil in a jet engine never comes in contact with the heat producing section of the engine. It is sprayed on the friction producting components.
Hence does not pickup the by products of combustion.
I'm wondering if Consumer Digest went out and hired a lubrication engineering firm to make this determination. I really doubt that they have anyone on staff that could knowledgeably make such a call considering that it is such a specialized field.
Consumer Digest doesn't test anything. They just report the findings of the laboratories in the field of whatever they are testing to do the analysis. They don't sell oil, either.
Consumer digest can be influenced by ad revenues, consumer reports does not have that issue
but I love my synthetic in my motorcycle...
Run Exon elite in my airplane engine.
Coulda been consumer reports. Was a long time ago and I only remember that it was an independent test. It all comes down to personal choice, really, though.
First you need to keep everything in order, Talking oil, religion or politics, you can get into a disagreement real quick, so it becomes an opinion based on experience, so considering all the above, MY opinion is the synthetic is great IF you need it or you get the warm fuzzies spending more money for it. I have put many hundreds of thousands miles on mostly diesel engines, and I always used the Shell Rotella 30, 40, 50 or 15W-40 and NEVER had a wear issue due to lack of oil, so I do not see all the excitement that makes mewant to run out and spend the extra money, my warm fuzzies do not come from oil, either version :o ;D
The single biggie for me, when running a 2 cycle Detroitg Diesel, you want straight 40 until you crank the HP up over 500 HP (8V-92 Engine). The 6V-92 does not have the same weakness on the rear main I am sure there EXPERTS that feel 50 is not important, so I guess they have lots of money. The experts that know run 50 even on 400 hp versions, they have sperience, Told ya, a very opinionated subject with much BS and factual experience.
Dave M
Amos is correct. Oil does not "wear out" it's the additive package that becomes depleted as well as the amount of wear and combustion by-products the oil collects. It's generally accepted that synthetics are only needed in extreme operating conditions such as super low temperatures for maintaining low viscosity or high bearing loads, high revs for shear strength and heat breakdown etc. Think the Arctic or race cars. There is a lot more to oil than this but a good quality oil from a reputable manufacture is all one needs for common engines in normal service.
Keith
My experience with synthetic oil started 5 years ago when I started using synthetic in my previous motorhome with the GMC 454 engine. After a year and about 4000 miles I was convinced that the engine ran smoother, used less gas, and climbed hills more easily. All the reviews I have found indicate that synthetic provides less friction then regular oil. If this is just not true, I would like to know that, and I would just buy oil based on price.
I was also told by AMSoil that with a synthetic oil, a bypass filter and annual oil analysis, there is no need to change oil for about 5 years in motorhomes which are driven no more than 5000 miles per year.
I started using synthetics 40 years ago after reading an article in Popular Science Magazine.
I recall synthetic being longer lasting because it is naturally multi-viscosity, so a 10-40 oil stays 10-40 forever, while a 10-40 non-synthetic is really a 10w oil with long chain polymers to acheive the 40. With time, these long chain molecules shear and become shorter, so after a 2000 miles or so, your 10-40 becomes a straight 10w oil.
I also recall synthetics being able to handle high temtperaures without burning, sticking to the parts better for lubrcation when starting the engine, and staying cleaner (not holding the dirt as well, leving it in the oil filter)
I started out 40 years ago with Eon Oil, then Amsoil, but now use (easier for my mechanic to find) Mobil-1 in my cars. None of my cars have ever shown any sign of engine wear, even after 270,000+ miles.
In 1999, I bought an Isuzu Trooper with 265,000 miles on it, from a friend, who's profession for decades was "traveling Auto Parts guy" in the NE. He opted for Synthetics for 'all' fluids available. It seems he knew something.
The 1988 model/non turbo 4 cyl. with auto trans. went through Florida emissions testing until Fl. dropped the tests, but at 300K or so, one of the guys stuck his head back in to check the odometer....and said, "Man!!! This thing reads as if it's NEW!! yes. near zero anything showing up in their computer.
I sold the SUV with 334K miles on it and it still purred with not a notice of smoke.
so, have used Synthethic Oils (Mobile 1) whenever I can in all my engines, cars, boats, rv's.
yup, I ran a 1988 Ford E350 7.3 Diesel Super Van to 414 K miles and always use d the Rotella 15-40 and sold it to a guy who is still laughing at me, so I do not see a need for the magic. Stuff. If it gives you the warm fuzzies, smile :D
cheers.
Dave M
That used to be true with the multigrade oils with long chain molecules where sharp edges like piston rings would gradually destroy them but as newer more rounded molecules were developed, the multigrades now stay in spec until the next oil change.
I do run Mobil 1 in all the cars and Amzoil in the chain saws, KX250. Just a bit over budget for the big beast.
Pierce
There may be some benefit from running synthetic oils in systems like power steering, transmissions (Allison recommends it, as do the drive axles) grease and drive axles as to extending service intervals. Engines in general (diesel especially) because of the combustion process put contaminates in the oil in the form of soot, unburned fuel, nitrates and so on, it is the oils job to contain all of of it. No matter what kind of oil it only has the ability to hold all of these things in suspension for so long. The engine manufactures recommend oil change intervals because their engineering folks have spent a lot of time studying a lot of data. But like Dave M says if it makes you feel good by all means do it, it can't hurt.
I do run Mobil 1 in all the cars and Amzoil in the chain saws, KX250. Just a bit over budget for the big beast.--quote of Pierce.
That is the exact reason I became a dealer as it takes a good chunk of the cost off it and makes it reasonable. By changing the oil twice with regular stuff compared to once with what I use, that equals the cost of Synthetic, plus add on filters and time and you are costing more!!!!
Using Syn oil does not make me "warm and fuzzy" as Dave puts it, I do it because after reading a long list of testamonials from people whose business depends on a good lubricant that does not break down too early (my comment) I decided to continue using it. The coach has been living on it for most of its life now, so why change?
John H
Been running synthetic since reading a article in Popular Mechanics way back in the mid 1970s. It was about running a Cadillac with Mobil 1 for 100,000 miles on highways without a oil change. After the 100,000 miles was done, they tore the engine down and micrometered all the movable components. All wearable parts were within brand new specs. I thought that was pretty impressive having been a believer of the 3000 oil change interval. So I have been a follower ever since. And have learned lots about various brands. And while synthetic may cost more, it offers on fantastic benefit for out turbo diesels. It flows through that little hose that goes to the turbo so much better, and handles the extreme heat of the turbo bearings that breaks down normal oils. And having had turbo failures, I so much appreciate what synthetics can offer for that kind of protection. If you ever get a chance to look at a "tiny" Garrett variable vane turbo off of a VW or Audi, do so. Pick it up and inspect it and move the vanes. You will then understand why VW and Audi require synthetics in their engines. They do not last long running normal dino 15W40 oils.
And then my wife's uncle was the head mechanic at the Jamestown terminal for Lyons Transportation Lines, Erie Pa. (Lyons was headed by Colonel Philip G. Cochran, USAAF, aka "Flip Corkin" of "Terry and the Pirates" comic strip.) They tested a unnamed synthetic oil for a major oil company in one of their road tractors. Ran it for a million miles without changing the oil. Changed filters only, and topped it off that that unbranded synthetic oil. They used regular oem filters, nothing special. They tore it down every 100,000 miles and micrometered the internal movable parts, put it back together and put the same old oil back in it and continued to run the engine. After it had a million road miles on both it and the oil, they pulled it off the road and ran it as a city delivery tractor in Buffalo, NY, never changing the oil. it was still running with an additional several hundred thousand miles and the same oil when Lyons shut their doors. Never had any internal engine problems. The wife's uncle had no idea who the manufacturer of the oil was, except it was a big name manufacturer that they tested it for. The 55 gallon drum it came in was unmarked with nothing indicating what it was other than "motor oil test". He was one of those old time diesel mechanics who knew how to tune a diesel. He senior advisor for the diesel mechanic training department at the local county vocational training center. Prior to that test, he did not believe in the "snake oil hype" of synthetic oils. That test changed his opinion. He is no longer with us to pass on that story, but I am glad that he passed it on to me.
That part about heat in the turbocharger has me thinking the time is coming (next yearly oil change) for me to switch to synthetic in the FT.
Any suggestions on where to buy synthetic (and which brand) at the best price?
Tom, google the oil and find all the reasons to make your mind up-then go looking for suppliers of the best.
John H
Rotella T6 at wally world, When I bought Tex, 1999 u320, it had synthetic oil in every thing that required oil. I change the oil filter at 10,000 and send a sample off for analysis.So far it looks good.
Ben
1999 u320 (Tex)