Gary B wrote:
Wayne, If money was no object and FT would do it the ideal coach would be,
38 Foot GV
450 HP
Aquahot
Ducted air ( 3 ? )
Dual pane windows
IFS
12 KW Genny
Dirt resistant interior for the dogs
Air ride drivers seat
ACESSIBLE water pump and batteries
and I am sure you can think of others.
These choices are unique to each individual and I thought it might be interesting to see what others think.
The ideal foretravel:
38 foot - I agree.
GV
Not for me.
I love the large panoramic front window of the Unicoach. I also prefer the drivers/passenger seating arrangement where these seats on on the same level as the couch and swivel chair. They can be rotated and become part of the living room. On the GV, the driver and passenger seats are "King of the castle" higher than on the Unicoach.
450HP - I agree.
Aquahot
Not for me.
I like the versatility of the propane furnaces and hot water tank, which I seldom use. I can run the hot water tank for 8 to 20 minutes, depending on the outside temperature, to have a hot shower. The Aquahot units are noisey and require much longer to heat up. The also add weight to the coach and require frequent maintenance. I have the hot water tank off most of the time, and use the furnaces for less than 20 hours per year. I acknowledge that the Aquahot provides endless hot water and very even heat for those who always have shore power. I boondock most of the time.
Ducted air (A/C)
Not for me.
I like the versatility of being able to replace a roof mounted A/C with a Maxair or Fantastic fan for more light and fresh air. I seldom use the A/C units and last used them in April when I was in California.
Dual pane windows - I agree only if they are trouble free because most early ones failed.
IFS - I agree, my U320 solid requires 5 lanes to turn around.
12 KW Genny
Not for me.
I seldom use the genny, instead I live off the 850watts of solar panels on the roof. I run the genny about 20 hours per year, mostly to execise it to keep it healthy. I object to the noise and exhaust smell. My ideal would be a 4KW generator which will run one A/C unit and the microwave at the same time, or the microwave and hot water heater - this just requires power management. A 4KW genny is much lighter, quieter and fuel efficient then a 12KW genny producing less than 4KW.
Dirt resistant interior for the dogs - I agree, although I do not have dogs, I do boondock on the desert. Rug in the bedroom is warm and quiet, but vinyl is much better in the front. I have noticed that most new coaches today do not have rug in the front areas.
Air ride drivers seat - I agree, where can I get one?
ACESSIBLE water pump and batteries - I agree, however they are already accessible on my No-slide Unicoach.
I would add:
A 16 breaker main 120VAC main power panel with manual selector switches (for shore, genset, inverter).
Filtered input air with a fan which will pressurize the coach.
What do others think?
Like the 36 foot GV style but no decals. White paint with a TASTEFUL art deco design.
The stock engine is fine.
Would replace the Allison with a Roadranger manual trans. Two speed rear axle like SOB Imperial. NO independent front suspension.
Replace the auto leveling with manual controls.
Roof airs work well.
Add magnetic stops on the overhead cabinets to keep them from creeping open. Better stops on passageway doors.
Replace both house heaters with vertical exhaust propane heaters with a very small noiseless aux fan.
Might go with a tankless water heater but would like a heat exchanger tank for hot water also.
Provide nose storage for a spare tire and wheel.
Get rid of the compartment doors and their cheap latches. Replace with vertical bus style doors. Get rid of all fiberglas mat and use fiberglas cloth everywhere in coach.
Easier access to house water pump.
Equip the rear stateroom with an easier push out emergency window with a toss out ladder.
Re-design the bulkhead attachment with galvanized steel with close cell foam in flooring.
Get rid of the nasty vinyl faux leather seats that everyone is so sure is leather. Use real leather (don't EVEN want to argue).
Move some electrical panels up out of the high corrosion area.
Add a couple of NASCAR type aluminum radiators to the nose area so cooling is not marginal for really hot weather in mountains. If they were efficient enough, it might be possible to replace the fan motors in the rear with electric and go with electric power steering.
Insist Foretravel have a full time guy that does nothing but make comprehensive owner manuals & part manuals including all part numbers. Should be revised every few months and include a DVD with all the same information available on computer and also online. If you bought a Beech Bonanza, it would include the above and be first class.
Fireproof the fridge compartment.
Lots more but enough for now.
Pierce
The three zone plus the tank bays and the even heat from the aquahot and not drying the air out in the coach for us all season users makes that a very high priority for me.
Level floor, yes. 450? Yes. Xtarder yes. Ifs yes for the turning radius no for the steering wander most have. You have to steer most all the time.
Every customer liked driving from the bottom of the steering wheel.
Love a 36' for boon docking. Realiy like the 40' WTBI floor plan
Bob
Since we're dreaming, here's the take from one who has yet to own a Foretravel.
GV style. We like having the seats even with each other, rather than having the navigator somewhat behind the driver. I like sitting up higher (I'm short). 38' is probably a good compromise between the 36' and 40' models.
Not sure that 450 HP is necessary, but 350-375 HP would probably be good. I'd like to get 9-10 mpg, and that would take some engineering to figure the right engine.
Aqua Hot. I've heard both good and bad about them, but I've never had one, so I can't speak to it.
Ducted air. Yes. Ideally, though, there should be some vents to take advantage of natural air flow when that's all that's needed.
Dual pane windows. Definitely. I'd rather pay a bit more up front and have GOOD ones than save a few dollars initially and then have to replace all of them a month after the warranty expires.
IFS. Don't know enough to know whether this would be a plus or minus.
12 KW Generator. I'd like enough solar panels to handle most use, but the generator needs to be big enough to handle the entire coach.
Dirt resistant interior is a great idea. Anyone who can create that will soon be rich! I'd like one here at home and another in my library at school.
Air ride driver's seat. I've not experienced one, but I've heard nothing but good things about their comfort.
Accessible..... One of my pet peeves! Before ANY device is sold, a prototype should be manufactured according to the designer's ideas. Then the designer should be required to replace EVERY part, one at a time. No fair replacing the belt while replacing the alternator. Then the designer should be allowed to revise the design, build another prototype, and do it again. I suspect that it wouldn't take more than three prototypes before a REALLY GOOD design emerges. Subsequent designs by that designer will also be much better.
Fireproofing the refrigerator compartment: I'd do away with the standard RV-type refrigerator completely, unless a buyer specifically wants one.
I'd add: a decent owner's "box" with not only all of the manuals for all of the various components, but also sufficient information for the owner to decide whether a particular repair is a do-it-yourself repair or take-it-to-an-expert repair. That decision point is not the same for all of us.
I'd also add: fire-suppression system for engine, propane, and hot water heater/Aquahot compartments, and refrigerator only if an RV refrigerator is included.
I also like a mainly white exterior, with only a little accent paint. There is NO reason for decals.
All of the above comments are great, but not "out of the box". The ideal Foretravel has technology gathered from the Starship Enterprise, as in Star Trek. And it is not only affordable to acquire, but economical to operate under any ambient weather conditions....Yes we'll all keep on dreaming... :-[
Oh yes....Those lithium crystals Scotty always mentioned in the engine room? These fuel the Ideal Foretravel.
Thought it was Dyelithium crystals?
My only realistic desire would be to make my coach all electric, this is in the planning state. Already have done so many upgrades to the lights, rear engine cover, engine. Otherwise I have the correct power to weight ratio, correct engine, aquahot, battery system & charger, suspension (prefer the levitate style).
For sure 30 MPG is dreamable, along with a self cleaning button.
Simple is wonderful.
;D
Dave M
My 2003 U295 38-foot single-slide is pretty much there already. It's a keeper.
The comment "Filtered input air with a fan which will pressurize the coach." has me thinking.... Does anyone make such a device? Back in my SOB days, the roof fan was reversible (and the one I have now can me made to work that way also). One time we were at a music festival, and the pot smoke was very evident until we reversed the fan and forced rooftop (clean) air into the coach. I guess a filter could be added to what I have (along with the reversing switch)
As for IFS, just why can a solid steering axle be not made with the same wheel cut as IFS? It seems the only reason for IFS is turning radius, not ride and not handling, unless on very rough pavement?
Fireproofing of the refrigerator compartment keeps coming up. I believe the frequency of referigerator fires is low enough that this need not be a major concern. However, besides having working fire detectors and possibly adding a fire extinguishing system behind the refrigerator, what kind of fire proofing are you all suggesting?
I have a friend, who like me, spends winters at Slabcity CA. Like me, he is a professional engineer. Unlike me, he is fanatical about breathing dust free air and keeping his rig interior spotless. He hand painted his roof with Walmart acrylic and titanium colour (whiter than white), and puts carefully sized foam with reflective metal in his windows. He uses a closet to hold hepa filters, cut a hole in the wall and runs a very efficient fan 24 - 7. He vaccuums every day and spents most time indoors. He also removed the roof A/C units and installed (much more efficient) residential A/C units in the basement with ducting in the cupboards. It is very refreshing to step into his quiet cool motorhome. He runs his A/C units and a full computer system on a honda eU2000 inverter generator, which has been modified to higher output and is powered by a Powerfist motor (fan belt).
Most interesting dude.
I am considering putting hepa filters and a fan under the foot of the bed, but wonder how to get outside air which does not smell like diesel.
Wyatt, I think a 6" flex ducting from the fan at foot of bed, then route down across the M11 engine and attach to the rear gate door would get some fresh air and a 6" ducting should provide plenty of low speed air unless your trying to really pressurize the coach, then you would need a high pressure fan/motor I assume. The 6" ducting still should be plenty I think. ::)
Dave M
Hmmm... I'll play
42 foot tag axle (because I can't get the kitchen and bath space I like AND the kingsize E/W bed in a 40)
450 or 500 hp Cummins that doesn't require DEF
Retarder
Aquahot
Ducted air/heat pumps that are QUIET
3 slides - 2 bedroom, 1 streetside front (don't like the curbside front as it robs space from the patio and makes the front seating areas way too far apart)
Kingsize bed, east-west orientation with windows in each of the BR slides for cross-ventilation
Clothes closets in the bath area for a giant dressing area (like our current bath) with good organizer layout
gas cooktop unless it's induction, 3 burner minimum with space enough to have both a stockpot and a skillet going at the same time
agree on accessible batteries and water system
driver position that works both for someone 6'2" and someone 5'2" (I need a bolster pillow with our new seats)
tasteful tile with no large fields of itty bitty mosaics (that so drives me nuts with the new coaches)
solid surface shower walls/flooring (easy to squeegee down after a shower, plus who wants to clean all that grout???)
undermount/molded in sinks (easier to clean and more practical than vessels)
LOTS of kitchen counter space and storage (and thought-out outlet placement for appliances)
dog-friendly interior (no slick, shiny flooring, ultraleather seating surfaces, colors that hide dirt)
Ekornes recliner (demanded by Steve and Ree)
MCD blinds all around - powered windshield, manual others (more practical than all-electric for us)
Holding tanks no smaller than we currently have in our '03
Warm white LED lighting
Dual pane windows, yup, that have screens and open for fresh air
Washer/dryer. Combo 2100XC at minimum; possibly stacked separate units if the capacity was greater than the 2100XC
Light exterior colors for heat rejection, in shades that hide road grime (we don't understand the industry-wide trend for black/dark colors
I'm sure I could think of more. For the most part, it's the coach we have with an east-west king size bed and additional bedroom slide plus a few appliance tweaks (cooktop, quieter A/C, accessible house batteries)
Michelle
ETA I suspect Steve would also want a little more interior height, but no taller on the exterior than 12' max. There are too many places we take the coach that a taller one wouldn't fit. Those "Underclearance Turnpike Structures" in Maine rule out anything remotely resembling an IH-45 and the lower height/stable road manners are one of the reasons we chose a FT 8 1/2 years ago.
Me too:
40 to 42 foot
Tag
Bigger tires like the new FTs
Aquahot
All Electric
King Bed East West
2 slides
Heated tile floor
12 to 17.5 KW genset with Buddy plug so both can run their ACs
Dual Pane windows as well as the kind that open only from the bottom so I can open the if it rains
The rest like my current coach but more storage cabinets and deeper ones as well.
I think this thread just reinforces what we already know.
#1. There is no ideal coach-- 19' long when maneuvering and 90' long once you are parked! Lightweight for MPG and granite floors for beauty.....
#2. The reason there are so many different coaches and even kinds of coaches is that each of our perceptions of what constitutes the ideal coach is different and even our own "ideal coach" change as our needs and desires change.
Me, I am a LOT more KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) theory than most. Said another way-- "what ain't there won't break". But, I know that goes contrary to most buyer's desires.
I guess I'm like Brett W. The only thing I would change/add to our coach is a 450/500 hp engine, 800 watts of solar and ducted air. Otherwise, ours is ideal for us. Oh, I'm sure Peggy would insist on light colored tile floors. Trip sheds a lot. I haven't had a retarder but our Jake Brake works just fine after a whole summer running around the Rockies and Tetons.
"Parts left off cost no money and cause no maintenance issues." Lee Iacocca (inexact quote from memory.)
Actually, I like the one we have and presently fixing/changing/adding what we want to make it more comfortable/efficient.
To cover all our situations a person needs 2 coaches, a lighter one and easy size for doing the travelling/sightseeing, and one larger for all the usual home comforts and entertaining, but still being able to move to a new spot.
John H
We've actually thought a bit about having "two coaches" but our thoughts aren't quite what you might suspect. We've toyed with having a van conversion for our toad, which would give us a refrigerator, a/c, etc. on day trips. We could even stay overnight should that seem to be a good idea. Unfortunately, vans don't get very good fuel economy, so we'll probably stick with something smaller, lighter, and cheaper running.
I like the idea of having a van conversion as a toad. Unfortunately, when I suggested this to DW a few years back, her response was not favorable. We are currently getting her MDX set-up to be towable. Back when our motorhomes were 25 and 32 feet long, we did very well without a toad. Now, at 38', we feel the need. I wonder how 36' would have worked for us? Maybe toadless, maybe not.
Tom,
I tow a pickup w/ATV and for me it is great, can always scout around the area like the Black Hills & Custer State Park. You do not want to scout that area with a coach.
Dave M
I am also an advocate of the KISS principle; at least up to a point. I don't mind adding things that either I can fix or that, if they break, have no real impact. One of the writers here, in a blog I read off of Barry's site, talked about having a comfortable place to sit and that, for me, was one of the reasons I moved from tents, campers, travel trailers and 5th wheels to a Foretravel. A vehicle has to be an appropriate size to have a comfortable chair. Smaller (under 30-feet) diesel motor homes with swiveling driver and passenger chairs are just now coming onto the market (except for Safari) and too expensive for us.
Not being blessed with an over-abundance of funds we cannot simply decide what we want and then go find it. We have to compromise in many ways. Oddly enough, the coaches we like are pretty much the coaches that are on the market, used, at very cheap prices. Since I was comfortable with the Cummins 5.9B engine (having had two of them on the farm) I was actually looking for motor homes with this engine. Although I would have preferred the six-speed Allison transmission.
The Foretravel motor homes from the late 1980s and throughout the 1990s share many of the same characteristics. While they grew higher and wider and had more sophisticated accessories, the bedrooms remained amazingly similar. This actually made it easier for us to buy an earlier model since waking up would not present much of a difference so then why bother spending the money for a newer version?
We are also not constrained by a love of luxury having been trained more-or-less out of it by five years cruising (with two children) on a 32-foot sailboat back in the 1980s. Again, on the sailboat, there was really no comfortable place to sit although we made do with throw pillows. And any galley arrangement that had a refrigerator (not an icebox - at least at first) and a hot water heater (we had been quite content to heat water up on the stove) or even a stove that did not require priming with alcohol would be a step up from Kibitka.
The shower and toilet facilities were likewise steps up from our sailboat. The toilet does not require 25 strokes on a pump to evacuate its contents and the shower on the FT is infinitely more comfortable than the 1-gallon garden sprayer we filled with hot fresh water we used on the boat. (One does not waste fresh water on an ocean-going sailboat only 10 meters long with just 70 gallons to last up to a month!)
So it was almost inevitable that we would end up with a U225 with the Cummins 5.9B, an Allison transmission (albeit a 4-speed) and 36-feet long. This model looks longer than it really is because it is about a foot lower than Foretravels - even earlier models - with air bag suspension. The downside is considerably shorter "basement" storage areas and the rear (not side) radiator. Yet the relatively light weight (22,500 pounds), the low overall height, and the narrow (96" not 102") width make up for a lot because we love the U225's nimble handling characteristics. And the long, sleek profile helps with fuel efficiency; we are now getting nearly 12 mpg making the 100-gallon fuel tank capable of taking us 1,000 miles without worry.
In almost every way the U225 is the perfect choice for us at this point in our lives. Nimble enough to wheel around in our local supermarket's parking lot we don't absolutely *have* to have a toad; and, in fact, we have often simply put two bicycles on a hitch-mount rack and gone off for a weekend with just those. We are slowly bringing the coach up to date with a modern converter/charger, a cutting edge battery monitoring device, a 50-amp main power protection system and 630 watts of solar panels on tilting mounts (in the shop but not yet installed). We should be able to live comfortably whether we're at a luxury RV park, a large snow-covered parking area near cross country ski trails or a desert campground near Jeep trails.
Yesterday I roughed-out the attachment for a tow bar for the Jeep we bought after Mr. Metzger published his trail-traveling accounts while in Quartzite and Lake Havasu. Unlike an ATV the Jeep will be legal and comfortable enough to transport us into town for supplies as well as rugged and adaptable enough to explore most trails. Plus it has a heater. :D
I guess what I'm getting around to saying is that we think we have the perfect motor home for us now and for a few more years into the future. This is not to say that we might not like a more luxurious coach; but unless one of us wins the lottery (and so far only one of us even buys tickets*) we're stuck with this one. Surprisingly enough many RVers with their own coaches think the one we have is plenty luxurious in comparison to theirs already. :)
Craig
*My theory is that I have very, very close to the same chance of winning the lottery as someone who buys tickets already!
Well now that keep it simple has came up I'll jump in the dream world.
How about a compartment that has a detail guy that every time you want he can jump out wash & wax the coach along with dust the cabnets. We like everything else.
Pamela
Mike would have a list as long as your arm but I won't let him play this game.
Pamela, that is called a Trunk Monkey.
( see TV Commercial )
Bill,
Yes, one of those would work out nicely.
Best us get back on task and no more monkeying around with this thread.
Pamela & Mike