Howdy folks,
Visiting friends from Custer SD parked their rig in Bullfrog Creek RV Park in Florida, and while visiting them I noticed my first Foretravel. In a subsequent conversation I was told that the coach was considered well built and now that I'm contemplating another adventure I thought I would satisfy my curiosity. I come from a long history of camping and related activities from trekking to using various mode of transport including an airstream. And although I've rented a Class A or driven them for others no longer able, I've yet to own one.
I presently reside in Florida with a rough plan of getting back into RV'ing during the warmer months. In the past I've loaded my motorcycle in the back of a purpose built Chevy Van and pulled a 27 foot Land Yacht for approximately 25,000 over those years. My alternate vision is to purchase a coach, perhaps a Foretravel, and pull a ½ ton van with the motorcycle inside.
My thought, before I got too involved, was to ask the folks who know about coaches and travel to see if my idea is feasible.
I know very little about the Foretravel class distinctions, U270, U320, Nubus, Phenix?, or what it would take to tow a 6000 pound toad, bike included in comfort behind one.
From conversations I've learned that some RV parks won't accept old coaches and if visiting others or in an area with only one of these RV parks available, I wouldn't want to be left out in the street, so I guess the coach would need to be 2007 or newer, and that I could at least get a few years of unrestricted use.
I'm aware of Toy Haulers and looked at a Newmar Canyonstar but wasn't impressed. I don't think I want a Gaser, nor do I think I need to sacrifice that much space.
Any advice on this rough draft of a vision would be helpful, and thank you for your time.
Don't rule out older coaches. That line about age of your coach hasn't hit us and we have a 2002. If its in good shape , as most Foretravels are, you have nothing to worry.
Welcome to ForeForums!
This site is an excellent starting point. Here's the page where you can research years/models, get towing capacities, etc.
Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:specs)
Roughly speaking, U270-U295-U320 are basically different trim levels from mid/late '90's until 2005. Phenix is a new model first introduced in 2006, basically replacing U320 and was the high end until last year when the IH came out. Nimbus in 2006 was a re-badged U-series coach (few made, I believe) and re-released in 2007 as a new model, a step or so below Phenix. IH-45 is a completely new model released last year and is the current flagship model. Nimbus, Phenix, and IH-45 are all pretty much custom coaches so there aren't any stock floorplans or brochures to point you to.
Michelle
(ETA and then there's Mark and Tanya's U-285, which is a uniquely trim-leveled coach and the only one with that designation)
Yes, age does not seem to be an issue with the Foretravels I know about and as for towing a 6K lb toad, I would not worry about using a 320 model, as I town a 4500 lb pickup with a heavy ATV, the ISM500 engine seems not to notice it at all even on mountains, up she goes passing all the SOB's, so if I were to worry, it would be on floor plan, length and other creature comfy's and what you like
Dave M
Any Park that sets a age limit or other restriction will not get my business. Western Horizons, a membership network, has put all their parks up for sale, due to lack of new memberships. 1000 Trails has sold out to Canadians, Private parks are dropping rates to attract new business.
Buy what you want to heck with what others think.
Keep any coach with a shine, good looking wheels and there should never be a problem.
Welcome! We've been researching for a couple of years now, and have settled on an older Foretravel for our full-time coach. First choice for us is a mid-90's U300, with a Unicoach a close second. The Unihome coaches (aka Grand Villa) are designated U225, U240, U280, and U300. Those numbers correspond to the gross weight rating of the coach. A U225 has a gross weight of 22,500 pounds; a U300 has a GW of 30,000 pounds. Some of these are stand body width (96") and others are wide body (102"). I believe all of the Unicoach models are wide body, and all of the named models are wide body coaches.
From what I've read, those parks with a 10-year-old rule are mainly parks with long-term residents, and use it to keep the park from turning into a junkyard. If the coach looks like it is well cared for there usually isn't a problem. Since what we want is well over 10 years old, that rule could affect us at some point. Our plan is to either have reservations (which means that they know what we're driving) or start looking for a campsite early enough in the day that we could go elsewhere if the first place we find isn't suitable.
The people on this forum are really knowledgeable and willing to share that knowledge. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Barry's site has lots of good information, and you will probably want to bookmark it (I did, and refer to it frequently). Once you get to the point of wanting to buy a coach you will want to ask some very specific questions, and you will get some excellent answers.
Sooner or alter you will see a reference to MOT. That's Motorhomes of Texas, Pre-owned RV sales, Service ,Parts & Consignments Motorhomes of Texas (http://motorhomesoftexas.com/) and they are well-known as Foretravel experts. They are not far away from the factory, and a visit there for a tour is well worth the time.
Enjoy your learning and searching.
Juan I live in Riverview Fl and have a 98 u295 for sale that I would be happy to show you if you are interested. You can call me at eight one three 215-3463 Thanks Ron
TxForetravel, thanks for the insight, with this I'll contact many RV restricted locations and see where they stand. Not that I plan on using them, but some of my friends do and it would be nice to have access on those occasions.
Michelle, I found this site through Barry's link but for some reason I hadn't reach the part of his site that detailed the differences in models. That's for your info, the fog is lifting.
Dave M, I notice you have a U320 but it's only 36', which I'm gravitating to. Something below 40', again to accommodate restrictions, this time in size. A friend has a Prevost and trouble found him in California for being to large and heavy.
I like to get off the beaten path so a high quality, shorter, lighter unit would be more suitable. With a rented 45' I found it quite the task to maneuver in a remote location like this Pine Acres Family Camping Resort - Central Massachusetts Lakefront Campground (http://pineacresresort.com/) some years back.
Steve or Nancy Snow,
Peter or Beth,
I'll look into the issue further, make some calls to the restricted parks and see what I discover.
kbOzke, I guess I have some decisions to make on size, weight, tag-.no tag, engine size, gear ratio, slides, no slides....I'll mostly travel, not park, and go off to remote locations to climb in the rocks and ice. Attend different events, like the Balloon fest, Sturgis rally, get up into the mountain in Quebec, New England, or follow along the Appalachian trial. I suspect a lot of torque will be required on hilly terrain on secondary roads predominately. Of course some voyages will be longer, but basing my needs on this mountain range and pre-civil war back roads, will pretty much prepare me for anything I'm like to encounter.
Thanks for your generosity, I'll put you advice to good use. ;-)
The DW and I spent a lot of time around Baja and the Sea of Cortez so we wanted an FT that we were sure would be at home on the roads of Baja. A U240 or U225 Grand Villa seemed to fit the bill for us. They are lower in overall height by about a 11-inches and weigh, like their nomenclature, 24,000 and 22,500 pounds each.
They are also only 8' wide (96" not 102"). Even though a 102" coach would be ok on the most Baja roadways, we both felt that the narrower (which still feels plenty wide on narrow back roads) was better.
Our 29' Alpenlite 5th wheel trailer had one slide (sofa and dining table and chairs) and we were not completely satisfied with the experience. Debris on top, poor insulation, and extra weight plus the extra maintenance.
These were considered "entry level" coaches by Foretravel; I found that somewhat humorous... entry level for $250k in 1993 dollars. But at the present time they are widely available in decent shape for under $25k.
I think these two models were built between about 1991 and 1994. They are Unihome and built on the Foretravel monocoque chassis but don't have air bags and their systems are relatively simple compared to the newer, more complex, coaches.
Welcome to the forum. Good luck.
Craig
Wa_desert_rat, thanks for the insight. I too have spent some time in and around Baja, the airstream did well, but the 4x4 with a topper, tent, and camping gear was the better choice. Which bring me to another reason I'm using a van as a trailer...toybox. It will be a 4x4 Chevy Express. It carries a road bike, dirt bike, inflatable and a small outboard motor, skis on so on. From what I'm gathering, it seems as though the older Foretravels had a smaller footprint and the newer ones don't have that option.
I'm looking at Foretravels for quality purposes, like the airstream, but unlike the airstream Foretravel doesn't offer a selection of sizes...it seems. ? I'm just in the planning stage, looking at options, looking for reliability, which most often is found in quality. I don't need a brand new coach for part time use but something 4-5 years old, well cared for, that isn't too extravagant in appearance but has the power and amenities to get there in reasonable comfort. I'm not really concerned with the cost as much as I am with the depreciation.
Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just trying to see how I can make it all work in a motorhome. I don't mind older vehicles when I'm close to home, with my tools and resources available, but experience has taught me that when out on the road, newer parts are easier to acquire. Motorhomes may be a different animal and I might be 180º out so I'll listen to the pros and do my homework and with luck I'll find what I think I want?
Indeed, the 36' is perfect for me to maneuver in tight spots, the weight is in the very low 30K lb area, and towing your Chevy is not an issue and with the Retarder & disc brakes, stopping is not either. The ISM series engines have both the hp and torque to get it done. In my case I had it upped from the 450 hp & 1450' lb torque to the ISM500 spec, 500 hp & 1550' lb, that is a major noticeable increase, feels like 200 hp. All with Cummins blessing and done at a Cummins distributor.
On the 2001 model the tow capacity is 10,000 lb so the 6000 lb Chevy is not near an issue, but you will (by law) need a braking system on the van.
Foretravel has alot to offer, but there is no perfect RV that covers the sands of Baja and the deep snows of wonderland that I am aware of. I keep my coach on hard roads and if snow or ice, I park and enjoy the of the heating system and the system for living comfy like the great generator and battery system.
As for range, My 320 has a 194 gal diesel tank and I average 8+ mpg, so the fuel lasts longer than my bladder by a few times. Normal fuel stops are every 2.5 days at 500 miles a day rate.
Lots to look at and smile ;D
Dave M
I towed an Airstream for 30 years behind a diesel pickup with my motorcycle in the bed, first open, then under a cap. Now I carry the bike on a lift behind the coach. Just an alternative.
I had a 36 foot and now I have a 42 foot. I have not found a place that I can not fit that I want to go too. Now I will say in the NE it is tighter but the south and the west is wide open for the most part. I have had a 34 a 36 and a 42 foot and they all have gotten into places I want to get to. As to towing, I pull a wrangler and there is no issues. It depends on the state you live in whether you need a tow brake or not. In VA there is a performance standard. Stop in 40 feet from 20 mph. Now I have over 7000 pounds of carrying capacity so I could put my Jeep inside the coach and carry it. So, it depends on your coach and your state and set up. If I was towing a diesel pickup I would put one on but with my jeep I forego it. I also tried a stop test with my jeep and with my jeep and a brake buddy I borrowed for a buddy. He had it set up to work for a panic stop. I passed a cone and slammed on my brakes. It was very close and while it is not a technically repeatable event and I am sure I probably hit the brakes at a slightly different time. I stopped one inch shorter without the brake buddy.... So, to me if I could pick up and carry my jeep, FT put good brakes on and they work well including the retarder. I did the same test without the retarder and I stopped in a longer distance without the retarder.
How did the test go towing the 2007 24' Born Free AND the Wrangler? ;o)
best, paul
I towed the wrangle with the Bornfree. I would not tow it again without a brake ever. I decided not to tow it behind the Foretravel though.
To add some clarity about Foretravel over the years.
All Foretravel motorhomes 1991 and older are 96 inchs wide.
All U240 and U225 (1991 - 1995) are 36 feet long and 96 wide, except for the last year of production, 1995, when they became 102 wide. The U225 and U240 motorhomes have BFG "Velvet Ride" rubber torsion suspension.
Foretravel U280/U300 unihome (Locomotive style, mid entry) motorhomes were 102 wide for 1992 - 1996 (very few in 1996)
The U300 had large engines with more horsepower than the U280. Both had the Foretravel designed, low pressure, outboard, airbag suspension.
Foretravel manufactured the U320/U295/U270 Unicoach, 40 feet long, 102 wide (bus style, front entry) from 1995 to 2005. There are some 36 foot and very few mid-entry. All have the Foretravel designed, low pressure, outboard, airbag suspension.
Slides appeared circa 2000.
The major difference between the U320 and the U295/270, regardless of length is the engine and tranny. The U320 has the Cummins M11 with 4060R tranny while the U295/U270 have the Cummins 8.3 with 3060/3060R tranny.
This is an overview and there are many different modifications or engines/trannys over the years (ie a 38 foot tag axle or a U320 with Cat 3176, or mid-entry locomotive style in 2001/2002).
I know of Foretravels towing heavy trailers with the 8.3 and with the M11. You just have to be more patient in the mountains with the smaller engines. I have a U320 with M11 and love 50mph, and passing other motorhomes when climbing hills. I got tired of the slow grind (20mph) up mountain passes with my SOB gas.
In this era there are also some 34 foot long U270's and some 42 foot long U320's.
Well I have a spreadsheet started Lot of U's then I found some acronyms like, WCDS and WTF or was it WTFS? and numbers like 4223...i'm sure they tell a descriptive story but one would need a crystal ball to disseminate this code on their own.
Dave M's 36' 500hp sounds close in size and propulsion. perhaps a 450 would suffice, but it's a 2001, and I'm in the market for something newer, 2007-08.
Air bags or no air bags?
Tag or no tag?
gear ratio?
More slides, less slides, no slides?
how many solar panel can be reasonable located on the roof?
Many of the systems I've notice are similar to the marine industry which I'm more familiar with. Dual C30's using 180 gallons an hour @ 30 knots makes 8 miles to a gallon wishful thinking.;-)
Most of the Foretravel owners had other SOB's prior to the Foretravel and they all seem to feel the way I do, that is I would rather have a 10 year old Foretravel than a NEW anything else, ask around
Good luck on your search
Dave M
Juan,
For the years 2007-2008, you'll find Nimbus and Phenix. Probably a total of less than 50-60 coaches made between those 2 years. They will likely be like snowflakes - no two alike.
All FTs since the mid 90's have air bags, so no decision to worry about there. Tag will depend on coach length and slide configuration (tag generally there for CCC).
MOT currently has 1 2007 Nimbus so you can check their site to see what it looks like. Pre-Owned RVS Motorhomes of Texas (http://motorhomesoftexas.com/coachesrv/all/default/foretravel/nimbus)
FOT has 1 2007 Phenix and 1 2008 Nimbus. Foretravel Texas (http://www.foretraveloftexas.com/list-inventory.php?category=Pre-Owned)
Thanks for your help! I considered lifts, there were two that I can recall, one hydraulic the other cable. Which do you recommend? My preference would be an inflatable toad :D
The van has dual purpose capability as a trailer and toad. With just one bike the van is under 5000 lbs but I like to use my Husky supermoto in the thick and when unloading my harley is just not practical. I used to pack a 2 wheel drive Rokon bike Scout » Rokon 2-Wheel Drive Motorcycles (http://www.rokon.com/index.php?p=1_6_Scout) but they're strictly off road, and the most fun of all.
Thanks Michelle, I'm beginning to see through the fog. Perhaps i need to test a few 40-42 footers to see if I'm over estimating the need for size restrictions.
Everyone has been very helpful, thank you for your time. ^.^d
With Diesel at $5.00/ Gal. be careful about the "bigger is better" mentality seen in this county for the past 15 years. Today you can't give fuel hogs away.
Don't tell the guys on WOG that. They're upset that their 'Birds aren't selling for what they think they are worth now. Just wait until fuel prices go up another dollar per gallon.
There are several different brands of motorcycle lifts. Some only lift to bumper height, but still allow you to tow a light toad.
I bought a used Blue Ox that I hope to use soon, that is a platform lift. It lowers to the ground to load, but rises to bumper height with a cable, and then has steel locking bars. The lift is rated for 1000#, weighs 500#. It is rated to flat tow 5000#, but not to tow a trailer with tongue weight. It extends aft about 5', before I add a tow bar system.
Here is a link to the Hydalift system, Lifting & Ground Clearance - Hydralift-USA (http://www.hydralift-usa.com/motorhome-lift/lifting-ground-clearance/)
It is a higher lifting system, carries any size bike, and allows close toad towing.
The 4223 number is the Build Number which Foretravel assigned when the coach was built. Each coach has a unique Build Number, starting at 1 and now at circa 6600. My 1996 U320 has Build 4943.
The four letter words indicate the floor plan. WTBI is walk through bath island bed in a unihome, while WTFE is the same floor plan in a front entry unicoach. These and a couple dozen others can be found on Barry's site.
Slides are an individual choice, others like myself do not want the extra wotk involved with slides, however most folks would not buy a coach without them. There is a lot of discussion about the pro/con of slides on Foreforums.
I have 850 watts of solar on the roof and can walk on the roof with room for TV and internet dishes. I boondock and live on solar.
Tag:
Another highly debated topic. A tag reduces basement storage while adding to CCC and improving handling. I do not have one and have to be quite careful with loading because my coach is very close to GVWR when living full time for 5 months of the year. I did not want one.
However, a motorcycle rack would dictate a tag because 800# of motorcycle/rack on the back will be over 11 feet behind the rear axle without a tag. This 800# load will add 1200# to the rear axle while reducing the front axle load by 400#. This is a significant weight shift which will most certainly overload the rear axle, underload the front axle and produce noticeable, undesireable, handling changes. I have seen large trunks and motorcycle racks on motorhomes which cannot safely accommodate them, which is a foolish, unsafe thing to do.
Hope this helps
Wyatt,
There are some instances where FT used 4 digit numbers to indicate model description, in addition to a different 4 digit built number. For example, they show stock number 6096C (build number 6096, a consignment coach) as a 2003 U320 4223 model. It is 42 ft. long, 2 slides. Some other versions I see on their site are a couple of 4010 (40 footers with 1 slide, 3410 (34 ft, 1 slide), etc. I believe the first 2 digits in this case are indicative of length and the last 2 are somehow related to layout/slides. I just checked our paperwork, and ours is a 4020 (we are 40 ft with 2 slides). Perhaps Barry has the code or maybe FT can chime in here.
Michelle
I think you are asking for trouble putting that on a single rear axle coach. Way way too much weight with the bike and lift together. I looked for a while at them when I had a 36 footer and decided I could not do it.
I use a Cruiserlift, which is a cable lift. It carries the bike high, allowing 3' coupling to the toad. Yes, the 40' without tag was overloaded for me, but the 42 footer is fine. Buy the dust shield to prevent road splash, and a cover from Coastline Covers, and you're good to go.
Nancy and/or Steve Snow, I hear you, and have seriously considered trying to fabricate something with a Dodge/Benz Sprint or just building a another G20 van, diesel this time and pulling another Airstream. Bigger is better for me now is trying to justify a motorhome when a TT would most likely give me what I want, but with a smaller windshield.
kbOzke, I don't know what a WOG is, nor what is considered a "fuel hog" in the motorhome industry. Local diesel is about $4 bucks here, unless you're in a boat. Many folks live on their boats down here and if a guy can get 2 gallons per mile at idle in some of these rigs they're lucky. Some have genset larger than your propulsion drive, other have two gensets and two propulsion drives with 8000 sq ft of living area. It all seems illogical when a Smartcar will get you where you want to go and most couples can live in a well equip 500 sq ft area. I'll use solar where I can trying to be fuel conscience as possible.
Dave and or Dolly Cobb, thanks for the info; I haven't heard of the brand you've mentioned. The ones I was referring too was Hydrolift (fluid) and Cruiserlift (cable). A friend has a Hydrolift and of course...thinks it's the best. ;-) I think it cost him 5 grand to put that smile on his face.
P. Wyatt Sabourin, thanks for the info, weight=distance from the axle has been a concern, wow 850 watts with walking room to-boot, now were talking! I've read some of HandyBob's handy work and others with a more tactful approach. Solar is really becoming an affordable alternative!
Rough cost estimate and comparison. Fuel, service contract, maintenance, insurance
I've guestimated 6 mouth fuel use @ 10,000 miles including genset to be 1500 gallons @ 8 mpg +/-.
A diesel van pulling an airstream would be about 1000 gallons @ 12 mpg +/-. 500-gallon difference in 6 months. If I guestimate that I'll spend $1000 in maintenance for the airstream/van then I should probably say $2000 for the coach. Both will have service warranties, or whatever they call them these days, against catastrophic failure. The coach warranty will cost 50% more +$500. Insurance should be higher on the coach, guestimating a $600 difference in 6 months. Overall I've guestimated the cost of a coach to be $4500.00 more for 10,000 miles over a 6-month period or $25.00 per day. Not bad if the ride and pleasure derived from the coach is worth it.
Fuel 5000/7500 @ $5 per gallon
Service contract $1000/1500
Maintenance/retrofit 1000/2000
Insurance 500/1000
Airstream $7,500-$41 per day for 182 days
Coach $12,000 $66 per day for 182 days
Either way it's reasonable.
The unknown is depreciation or being stuck with a paperweight.
I suspect that a 5-year window is a practical approach. I could sell out earlier or trade up within 5 years but this arbitrary number fits at this point. If I purchase a Foretravel and want out or want to trade up, can I expect that they will consider a trade? It's a lot to expect in this flooded market but it would be nice to know if they would. Hope is not a strategy so I'm trying to look at this adventure from a 2018 perspective, which is one of the reasons I'm looking for something around 5 years old. What would be the residual value of a 2001 coach in 2018 vs a 2008 coach that is 10 years old? Could I even get parts for a 17 year old coach in 2018?
>>What am I missing and what needs changing?<<
Thanks Michelle, this may seem untimely, but I started writing the last post, got called away, finished and posted it when I returned, only to discover that others had posted..ops.
Thanks John.S good stuff to know.
Amos.harrison, the Cruiserlift said the carry at 40 inches high and the cables are preferred against hydraulic failure and for parts availability.
Was the/is the axle on the 42 foot closer to the end or do you have a tag on the 42' where there was none on the 40'? I considered the Dust Shield and was going to research bike covers. I guess Coastline Covers is a good place to start. In the past I've covered my harley with yamaha covers just to keep the wolves at bay.
Thanks for all your help!
Without getting political & ruffing feathers, I would wait until after the election, then you will have a clearer view into the future, I feel.
Either way it's your money, so do what makes you fesl all warm & fuzzy.
Cheers
Dave M
All 42s have a tag if they have an ISM or bigger.
There are 17 year old coaches now that are getting parts and there are parts that are not available on a 10 year old coach.
Oh and if you are really going to use your coach you will drive more than 10K miles. The last trip I took was 7K alone.
Dave M, the election doesn't impact me either way.
John S, that helps. Is there a substantial benefit too having tags? I've read CCC, which is measurable, and stability, but how much stability and how is it measured? I'm more familiar with Cat motors, but I can guess that the ISM is smaller than the ISX which I just discovered on a Phenix. I'll assume a ISM is 400-500 hp. What other motors were available and should they be avoided?
My estimate is for 6 months- 182 days annually. I've traveled extensively from coast to coast, Yellowknife to Chiapas on wheels, I've even crossed the US a few times on bicycle, so I'll most likely be retracing old treks and visiting old friends. Are there a lot of people who put 20,000 on their coaches? From researching used vehicles I've notice that most travel half as much.
Thanks for all your help!
I always wished I could be like the folks above.. They have all the numbers layed out and are working up a plan. It's always worked out for me anyway that full timing is more of an art then a science. You have to like this life style or no matter of numbers will make the experience fulfilling. I would say this. If the numbers are the main issue then perhaps travel by car and stay in reasonable motels. I live in a 23 year old coach in a swamp so I'm probably not the sharpest tool in the shed but I cant ever imagine moving back into my house, I'm happy to rent to people who like living there. I would never be happy with a trailer. Even if it was a superwamperdyne airstream. These old Fortravel coaches are the best period...I'm sure the new ones are nice too,but they are beyond me means.I always say that "full timing is not for the faint of heart". I stand by that but wouldn't have it any other way. Good luck.....
Read the service contract posts. Most don't feel they are worth the money. Based on my experience, there is no comparison between depreciation in an Airstream and that in any motorhome, thanks to the lack of a drive train. I could tow an Airstream for 250K miles and sell it for top dollar based on its excellent condition. High mileage motorhomes have low value in spite of their million mile drive trains.
Sorry. I can't justify my FT. I once thought an Airstream was the top of the RV world. No more. In fact their is no comparison.
I am sure you already know this, the early year depreciation on a 2008 will be greater than that of a 2001. If you look at 18 yo coaches now, sold for approx $350K new and are now fetching in the neighborhood of $23K+ gives you about $18K/yr "average", but the early years of those coaches were much higher and have now slowed to a trickle compared to earlier years.
To fully appreciate early depreciation, :D , go to the FOT website and look at the 2009 -2011 units available. Huge hits on depreciation. An example is the recently sold 2009 Nimbus CE Quad Slide, Stock #6502C with 22,993 miles on it. The price was cut from 435K to 375K and it finally sold. -65K just to move it. Not sure of the new price on that one but probably in the $750K range. Fuzzy math?, down $375K. $375K/23Kmiles = depreciation of $16.30/mile (or, using 10Kmiles/year = $163,000 for the year). Add, fuel, maintenance, insurance, service contract, camping fees, storage, etc, etc, etc. the cost?
In the end, my guess is at least around $20.00/mile for a new coach. :o
The global economy certainly affects this market and YMMV.
Not sure I have all the numbers exactly correct but go over them and let us know, or hopefully someone will.
Good luck,
spot on - If you are a cash (or home equity) buyer, good deals are around the 11-12 year old mark, still pretty current, but financing these units via "normal" sources more challenging. that would put 2001 at the top of my list, good quality, single slide with most of the bugs worked out, modern engine w/o hassle of DEF, great parts and service support available, pretty far down the depreciation curve, but still valuable enough you could paint/headlights/floor/etc. without feeling really stupid about it.
Or you could wait for a peach to fall into your lap like Kent Speers did....
:-)
Thanks for the acknowledgement.
The only thing I can add is don't worry about the "Age Restrictions" unless you are buying into a RV Resort. This is my second 1993 Foretravel. The first one, a U225 that is now owned by Dave and Dolly Cobb, had the original exterior, no paint, just decals. I was never refused or even question about its age at any RV park nor have I been questioned about my current 1993, U300.
I wouldn't trade my 93, U300 for any newer coach. It has all of the bells and whistles to make it comfortable and serving us incredibly because it is "cheap to keep" due to its lack of electronics. It has been almost trouble free for two years and 30,000 miles. Buy one well cared for early 90's U300 for around $30,000, add a new factory paint job and interior and appliance upgrade for another $30,000 and for $60,000 you have a top of the line bus that you can drive comfortably for many years. Plus hundreds of people will stop to ask you what it is and tell you how unique and cool it is.
I'm not sure a U300 will pull the van/mc combo without a strain, it has 350 hp, but if you are willing to go easy on the hills, it should be acceptable and for the price its hard to beat. We just came back from a trip through the Rockies and the slowest we slowed to crossing the continental divide multiple times was 38 mph pulling a heavily loaded Subaru Outback weight around 4,000 lbs. Our Jake Brake didn't heat up at all even on a 9% grade and kept us at 65 mph with only an occasional touch of the service brakes.
You have lots of choices. Just make it a well cared for Foretravel.
andyR I'm not a full timer just a guy who would like to spend time away from the heat of Florida in a different way. I have property in the north but I'm feeling a bit restless so I thought to investigate my options, starting from a suggestion that I look at Foretravel coaches for the QC. I'm not retired but can work from any location as long as I can communicate. So I may not be able to live in a swamp but living anywhere in particular wasn't my intention. I can spend as much staying still as I can traveling so the cost isn't a priority, not having to wrench on my rig would be nice, though I'm fully capable.
Amos.harrison, I get the comparison of an AS to a motorhome, and I'm not seeking justifications, I know it's about the carnival ride. Most difficult issue is having it all. The heavy Toad presents a problem, but being without my toys would diminish the adventure, so I'm systematically creating an ideal ride that will do it all. I apologize if my questions seem intrusive, they're not meant to be.
Rick, thanks for the break-down.15% markup on a used rig is normal, leaving the dealer wiggle room and the customer happy that he got a bargain, perhaps the buyer left something on the table, and 18 or 20% was the actual bottom line price? ;-)
Tim Fiedler, I'm not financing another thing...come spring and the creek don't rise. You guys are killing me with all these Acronyms. ;-) w/o DEF? I did figure out what FOT is though.
Nice restoration! Can you put a larger engine in her?
DEF diesel exhaust fluid
I understand about being able to work on the road as long as there is communications. I think a FT is one of the best longest running coach out on the road that has a manufacturer still in business and supporting all the coaches. If it was me, I would look at three types of coaches. One is FT, second is the Blue Bird ( but they are out of business and the newer Mseries have issues) and finally a Liberty or Marathon Conversion of a Prevost. There is nothing else that will be able to match. I know that Newell exists too and they are a great coach but they are more expensive than a FT and less than a Bus Conversion and if I was going to spend a bit more money I would get a bus.
John, I'm glad to see that you rank our top two picks the same as we do. We're really not looking at anything but a Foretravel and possibly a 'Bird. The price of a coach is what the buyer and seller agree it is, but from what I'm seeing I can get a newer Foretravel for less money than a 'Bird, and save money on fuel as I drive it, too. When we're ready to buy we'll see what's available and what sort of deal we can make. My prediction is that we'll end up with a Foretravel, but time will tell. I am spending more time here than on WOG, which kind of tells you which way I prefer.
As someone had suggested i went to virtual FOT site to see what I could find. Naturally the new coaches got my attention and I was able to see what the latest had to offer and what might not be included in previous years. The brown paint on the 2010 Phenix caught my eye, it seemed understated, which I prefer. As a part timer it's more than I'm willing to expend, considering it will lose most of it's value sitting idle half the year. I looked at the only 2007 they have, which seems to be the right age and level of depreciation and still be new enough to require less service, generally. Foretravel Texas (http://www.foretraveloftexas.com/view-photos.php?id=505)
I'm not that attracted to the blue paint, though I can live with it, I do like the 2 chairs with seat belts in the lounge. I think in such a narrow space having the ability to face different directions could be useful, I really don't use couches and I'm not looking for a second bed. Chairs with a table is also preferred, being able to move furniture is a plus. I like the earth tones so the interior colors will do, except the small couch and chair fabric. Two slides are half the trouble I suspect. I'm not sold on two baths, and I would prefer a king size bed, which i suspect could be swapped. I don't know what dis/or advantage a rear bathroom offers. I like a passenger Nav/GPS system. I will be adding solar to any unit that I acquire so the capability of this or any unit to receive solar would be required. I would be adding surveillance and security cameras and any monitoring equipment that it may lack. It would have adequate power, the mileage is right, the price is too high, but that's negotiable. What am I missing? Any thoughts?
John S, I know two folks that have Prevost conversions, one is larger with a driver who sits lower than the house, and the other has a level floor and chrome sides. I could be mistaken but I think the Prevost are higher and have larger basements and are 45' long. I shy away from items who's creators are out of business so the Blue Birds wouldn't be on my list.
I'm beginning to reassess my position. Perhaps towing some sort of vehicle, it could be a trailer with a jeep, bikes and toys rather than a van. Although it looked good on paper.
I'm just exploring my options at this point. Basically if i could just carry a bike I could rent anything in most locations and always have some secondary transportation when needed and not tow a thing, that seems like freedom from this vantage point. ;-)
I've gone back and read all the postings on this thread and have observed a pattern that is telling me that you are looking thru a window (of opportunity) that best represents an "ideal world." Your focus on costs seem to be more important than about safety, fun & enjoyment. What will you do (assuming you do purchase a motorcoach) if all of a sudden one of your estimated costs takes a leap upward? Will you have to stop driving and or living in your coach? Or will you do what the majority of RVers do...just keep on enjoying the lifestyle? I see a lot of emphasis on cost for depreciation. Nothing wrong with that, so long as it doesn't cloud your thinking, should you become involved in a trade-up. Why? Because when you trade-up, the best thing you can possibly do is to tell the dealer (seller) that your current motorcoach has a dollar value (on paper) of $1.00. That's right, ONE DOLLAR! Now he'll never agree to that, but you want that number to be as LOW as you can get it—all the while—applying the difference to the final sales price to the NEW (to you) RV (motorcoach). [That tactic lowers the sales tax as well as the fees you pay annually for tags]. This is something a lot of people have never heard of, but that a savvy dealer will work with you on.
Juan, I think you should go take a test drive in a Foretravel coach. In fact, try to do several different models/years. Trying to find the "perfect coach" by asking all these questions and sharing your mathematical calculations may be an effort in futility...till you at least have had a chance to see and experience first hand some of the features that a Foretravel coach has and what they mean. You've gotten a lot of "opinions" from those who have a lot of experience, but there are features on a Foretravel (almost any year) that you will probably never find in any other brand of motorcoach. You need to EXPERIENCE 8) for yourself the value of the transmission retarder. Perhaps you have had experience with a Jake Brake. These are two totally different animals. I will never again own a motorcoach that doesn't have a Retarder, no matter the cost! Another (lesser known) experience is try driving down a paved road/highway that has a dirt shoulder with a 4-6 inch drop off traveling at 35-50MPH. Be sure the entire right side of the coach is "in the dirt" and now steer back onto the roadway without slowing down. That experience should NOT be tried in any other vehicle (except maybe a Newell or some models of Prevost). That experience alone may answer any/all questions that you have about safety and stability of a Foretravel coach. Doing that even in some automobiles could result in disaster. It definitely will in just about every motorhome on the road today (except those I've mentioned above).
:-X Bottom Line: Where you are at right now, you should be out test driving a few of these coaches. Figuring out how much a mile it costs (including things like extended service contracts, etc.) is like putting the cart before the horse. Now, what if something about a Foretravel is NOT for you, then what? It's good to ask these questions, many of which probably would have been better done AFTER your test drive(s).
Before becoming a full-time RVer, I had looked into all sorts of ways to haul both my Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland as well as a little Gem Car (electric vehicle) I owned. When I found what I was almost certain the right unit to make everything work (Haul Everything Trailer) no longer in business, I mentioned my "great find" to some good friends who worked for Good Sam. Luckily, they pointed out something I never thought of, that I'll pass on to you as well. While I was devastated, I very quickly found it to be the best advice one could ever hope for. "When you pull into an RV park, where do you park that trailer?" "How much extra will it cost you if the only space available is the RV parking space next to you?" Many RV parks simply have NO PLACE for you to park that trailer, unless you never unhook it from your motorhome. Then that means you can't remove any of it's contents (motorcycle, car, other toy).
It is good to see you John, Long time no hear from you. I sure agree on the trailer issue. For me, I tow a Ford Pickup with my ATV in the 8' bed, works great and if I get into a corner, I can unook and drive out of it and rehook up. Works for me anyway.
Take care John.
Dave M
John Christman, perhaps from your perspective you've made a rational assessment, but maybe I could enlighten you a bit.
In the first paragraph of this thread, my opening statement explains that I was directed to Foretravel because of their quality and one would assume safety, so before I asked my first question here I already had those answers. Why would I need to challenge what was already establish? In my opening statement I also gave an outline of what I felt was a reasonable age of the vehicle that I would feel comfortable with. I asked if folks could define the models so I could identify them and become familiar with the assortment of styles and options.
I've received welcomed advice and direction from many people, both here on this board and in private messages, and I appreciate it, as I do with your advice about Trailers Vs Toads. Again, in my opening statement I had outlined my general criteria, which included a Van as a Toad to carry my toys. In my design the Toad played a dual roll as a trailer, with a driving option. Of course when some of the folks pointed out that a 6000 lb toad would restrict my options, I needed to reassess my priorities, which begged further questions.
From the very beginning of this thread I establish that price was not a concern as much as the rate of depreciation, because the coach would only be used half the year. I was advised to consider older vehicles because of the price and rate of depreciation, and I did, but my requirement for a newer coach has not changed. I found a 2007 coach @ FOT on the recommendation of someone here, and with the advice and good council that I have received, looked at it with a different set of eyes. It's longer than I thought I would have but was told that the size shouldn't be an obstacle.
As far as test-driving goes, I intend to drive those vehicles that I would consider purchasing. Although I have received a few private messages inviting me to drive their coaches, I felt it would be inconsiderate to give false hope to folks when I had no intention of purchasing and older coach. In this market I could drive a different Foretravel everyday for a month if I was so inclined, but I know what it's like to want to sell something and have my expectations invigorated only to discover disappointment. I'm not going to mislead anyone or take advantage of the good nature of others.
I understand your passion and appreciate the passion for the Foretravel coach that I have found on this site, and I suppose when I find my coach that I too will be passionate about my decision, but I'm not there yet, I'm enthusiastic about my adventure at this point and hopeful that with logic and rational thinking that I can find the right vehicle to take me the passion play.
Thank you for your time.
I actually use my element in the "trailer mode" a lot - fold up rear seats, and you have a HUGE protected space for all the important stuff that doesn't fit or you want easy access to - I actually put a roof rack on top as well for two bikes, not easy to get up there, but out of the way (until you go through drive through and they are still up there - don't ask......)
NASCAR guys are like Dave Metzger - full size pick up, usually crew cab, and golf cart in the bed on the back of truck -
Using toad as a trailer would have to be more convenient than towing a big trailer, and probably better mileage - but some folks do that.
Lots of solutions out there, we tend to migrate to the one that makes the most sense for each of us.
While a trailer may be inconvenient at times, it can also be a valuable addition. It all depends on how you use your RV.
One FT owner on here (and I forget who it was) had a trailer for the "dinghy" but also had set the trailer up to be a power source when dry camping. Not too hard to put a kilowatt of solar panels on top of a 16' trailer. Add a battery bank, a suitable pure-sine inverter and a utility connection and you can provide your own AC power. Since the DW and I like to dry camp (in RV parks without hookups) and boondock (in the winter for x/c skiing) the size is not so much of an issue nor is where to put the trailer an issue. No need to unhook the trailer in most cases... just back the Jeep out, tilt the panels appropriately and plugj in.
Once the dinghy is out there is a nice, dry, perhaps heated working area if the trailer is designed for that. Complete with a workbench, small drill press, storage for power tools, etc.
The trailer can also be used to quickly and securely stash chairs, tables and barbecue stoves for a shopping trip into town for supplies. Locking the trailer won't stop anyone intent on theft but it will deter the casual just-walking-by-and-wanted-it sort of thievery.
And with the addition of some air mattresses it can even be a guest cottage. :P
Craig
Craig,
Everyone has their reasons for their actions, while I am not a full timer, I donot get a warm fuzzy having my shop following me. I am on Holiday, with some luck I will not need my shop. ;D
But I support the idea of doing what makes you smile.
Dave M
Tim Fiedler, that TV ad where the Subaru drives into the garage with the bicycles on the roof immediately came to mind. All we need now is a jingle. ;-) I found a contraption that I can attach to the driveshaft to make my VanToad possible ... so I haven't yet given up hope.
Wa_desert_rat, exactly, it all depends. I met a gentleman from the film industry some years back at the Corn Palace that had a triple axle setup just as you've described. A matching 102" wide custom triple axle trailer behind a Prevost with two bikes and a 911 Carrera inside. It had it's own fuel, genset, reverse cycle AC, petrol tank, workbench, and a half dozen batteries. He haled out of the Finger Lakes region on his way to Sunriver Oregon, if memory serves. I don't suspect he was running many back roads. ;-)
Dave M, I'm with ya on that count, if I wanted to be a wrench I'd stay home and fix the lawn mower. ;-) I spent my earlier years building and fixing my own creations, I'm looking forward to less Box Wrenches and more Caipirinhas.
Back roads are fine most places but the NE. Lots of low bridges and small bridges with small Gross weight allowed. Depends how you want to use it though what size you will get.
I probably spend too much time at my shop but I think I'd like a workbench and my tools. Lots of RV parks in the SW have wood shops and metal shops. I've never worked as a mechanic but my time on offshore drill rigs as a subsea engineer had me slinging wrenches quite a bit.
Still just kicking around the idea of a trailer with the Jeep and shop inside but it's pretty attractive for me just as recreation. Nothing seriously big though... once the Jeep is out of it then there should be lots of room. Good place to store mountain bikes and kayaks, too. :D
Craig
I like the cottage idea, now I want a trailer with windows!
yeah, but the Subaru probably only went into the garage once, I did mine once at a drive through fast food place, my wife did it a week later at a whole foods. Both Salt Lake City. First one was $26 parts, second one was $155......
Haven't done it since
Stopped at a red-light in a van, a city bus pushed two bicycles into my back door. That one cost them!
During my flexible years folks actually paid me to peddle bicycles, and flying from starting point and back from the finish line with a bike was somewhat of a hassle. Quick release axles and shoulder strap carrying bags made it a lot simpler and cheaper to transport in the belly of a plane, so in my airstream i continued the tradition. I had a Stump Jumpers stolen off my car so the idea of leaving my bikes out really isn't appealing.
While reading through the site I kept seeing folks refer to MOT vs FOT. At first I took it as a typo, but the frequency in which it occurred raised my curiosity, consequently discovering a whole new Foretraval site. Since I'm a Newbie I didn't want to be inflexible with my thinking so I looked at a older than 2007 coach. I found a 2006 Phenix with a smaller motor, less miles than the one at FOT and according to the site this one is Loaded, which I'll probably have to compare all the options to see what the 2007 is missing? 2006 Foretravel Phenix 40' Motorhomes of Texas (http://motorhomesoftexas.com/coachrv/foretravel/2006--phenix--40--C1594) I don't shy away from technology so additional electronics, Silverleaf monitoring and such is a plus. The price disparity between the two units is confusing, I keep getting the erie feeling that I'm missing someing?
Mileage difference not significant. 2007 is 3 feet longer, bigger engine, much different interior. Better look at them.
Thanks Amos. I'm going to be looking closer as soon as I feel confident enough to know what I'm looking at. I'll be flying to the left coast in the not to distant future. If I can gather sufficient data and locate some coaches that broadly fulfill my requirements I could drop out of the sky and land in Texas and points west where most of these coaches seem to be flocking too. ;-)
While I'm here, I would like to get a better sense of the availability of service. In reading this site I've noticed that many people seem to travel to Nacogdoches, Texas for service and from great distances away. My question is, is it necessary to go to Texas for service or can most of the services be addressed locally? I like the desert in the spring so taking the southern route west in April would be a natural occurring phenomenon as I toured the continent clockwise but I don't see myself hanging out in East Texas to have my coach problems addressed anyother time of the year, which according to Googles Advanced Logic app Advanced Google Maps Distance Calculator (http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-advanced-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm) is approximately a thousand mile away from here.
I've been to Nac twice in 9 years; 1st for warranty on dash A/C (which was never resolved to my satisfaction @ FOT); 2nd to Xtreme for body work, roof paint and bulkhead repairs & other minor work (very satisfied). All other mechanical work can be performed by others. In my case Cummins has performed all the mechanical and some RV & genset work.
On the other hand, Forrest is a simple machine. What you're looking at is about 40 times more complex, so who works on the AquaHot, HWH systems, etc. does matter very much. You have to seek the best options in your area.
Peter
Often these coaches are consignment - owner sets asking price one person may have an unrealistic high price based on what they owe, another may be paid for and the owner may just want it moved out because of circumstances 9death, illness, divorce, etc.). In this case a good pre-purchase can give you confidence that the vehicle is sound even if low priced
Or one may be a trade in and owned by MOT or FOT and as such they took it in at a good price to offer it at a price that will sell readily in the marketplace
Megadoches seems to be where I go for the care & feeding of my coach, being 70, am not interested in paying a shop to learn/experiment on my coach is not inviting to me. Have always been delighted with the outcome in all respects, I speak clear English, stay with the coach and expect the shops to act in a professional manner and have never had an issue with MOT, FOT nor Xtreme or even the Tire shop everyone goes to.
Yes a drive at 1205 miles one way from my home in Va. I am not concerned about the mileage or time.
Just glad to get what I am paying for, seems to be a rare commodity
Enjoy
Dave M
Foretravel has some maintenance partners around the USA. It seems that more than a few of them were once "dealers" for Foretravel (which no longer uses dealers). There is one, for instance, in Oregon. Oregon Motor Coach Center (http://www.oregonmotorcoachcenter.com/)
Many of the RVers posting on the other forums insist that it makes no difference that the original manufacturer of a coach is no longer in business. The logic is that so many parts of every RV are available from other sources. My thinking is that I like having one of the people who built my original (1993) motor home as a resource. Even if they no longer stock all the parts they can often provide access to a solution just because they had to do it for another FT owner in the past.
Craig
Megadoches seems to be where I go for the care & feeding of my coach, being 70, am not interested in paying a shop to learn/experiment on my coach is not inviting to me.
Right. You would not believe, and I don't want to look it up, to see what I paid to have my house water pump replaced. It was North of $500. Why so much? Because the tech could not find the breaker for it. They eventually called the factory to find out where it is.
best, paul
Peter, is there anything specific to the coach other than the frame? And even that I could have aligned on a blackhawk rack. The glass work could be done at a body shop, the aqua-hot is a standard unit used by many and serviced in other dealerships. The engine, tranny, axles, wheels, genset, appliances, A/C units, bathroom fixtures on and on are pretty much off the shelf items unless out of stock. I can RR most anything, including electronics and software so I'm left with sheathing, basement doors, hinges, locks, perhaps the windshield if it's custom made. The windows should be replaceable by phone. Just trying to get a sense of what the NAC can do that others couldn't do. I suspect being familiar with the product, they could do it faster, but in general it seems to me that I should be able to locate most if not all of my service needs in RV centers in Florida. I'll call different location to get an idea how they feel about working on Foretravels just so i know out front.
Tim Fiedler, thanks for the insight. I was thinking that because the coaches were in dealerships that the prices were somehow standardized. Does MOT & FOT check these units out, consignment or not, or should I try to find a Surveyor like we use for pre-owned boats?
Thanks Dave M, I'm not able to burn that much time yet and will be restricted to 6 months +/- in the summer.
Craig, I would prefer the builders address the issues as well, it's just not possible in my situation.
We don't have quite as far to travel as some, just 4 1/2 hours for us, but we prefer to take our coach to Nac for any service we cannot do ourselves (although we would most likely use one of the AquaHot-authorized guys on the forum for that aspect of the coach). We use FOT, MOT, and Xtreme all, depending on what needs to be done (and sometimes based on who's running the best service special pricing at the time). They know and remember the coach, they know us, the right parts are there, and like Dave and Paul said, there is no learning curve on how things work.
Is any shop perfect? Of course not, no one is, but it's how the mistakes are handled that speaks volumes.
Michelle
Besides Oregon, there are Foretravel repair facilities in Spokane, WA and a mobile mechanic in the Seattle area (Convenience RV—425-753-0511) who is also a certified Aqua-Hot technician and did all my work for the better part of five years on my Foretravel. There is also a dealer in southern California who sells and works on Foretravels as well. One thing you should know and put in your memory bank is that any Cummins Service facility that has the words "Coach Care" in their name is definitely a GO-TO place that you can take your Foretravel to. There are over 350 such facilities located in the US & Alaska. I did so, not only with my FT but also two SOB's (Some Other Brand). They hire RV trained & certified RV technicians who know what they are doing and in most cases do it well. I wouldn't let them work on my Aqua-Hot, but just about anything else, YES definitely. And let's say you are out in the middle of nowhere and the coach locks up, or just as bad, you are at a major fuel depot (like what happened to me) and you have just filled up with 110 gallons of Alaskan crude, start the engine and attempt to put it in gear. However, no matter what I tried, I could not get the coach to move. Finally after 30 minutes and a few "upset" truck drivers, I had the presence of mind to call one of the tech's at MOT. In less than 10 minutes, (on a Sunday evening no less) Mike Rodgers, got me all taken care of and I was again on the road. Just one of the many advantages and attributes to purchasing and having a good repoire with both MOT and FOT (James Triana) have the knowledge to get us out of just about any jam we may ever encounter.
It's a darned good feeling, knowing there is almost always someone on the other end of the line who is there to HELP...just so long as your battery is charged on the cell phone and you have a signal. Another thing you should know Juan is that as long as it is not an engine or tranny, have your parts sent NEXT DAY or 2nd DAY AIR. Cost of shipping is in many cases far less than paying for RV parking for a week or two.
Hope I've been a bit more helpful and given you some encouragement too.
Our first motorhome was a 37' DP on a Freightliner chassis. Most components were "standard" RV parts. I took it to a Freightliner dealer for some work. They did perform the repairs when they got around to it. The service and feedback were not satisfactory to me. We took it to a reputable independent shop work. They would _almost_ fix things. We looked for a more satisfactory coach with a more satisfactory support system.
Our current coach is the at 1997 FT U295. One of the reasons we have the FT is because we have access to the people who built it, understand it, and want to keep it working properly. We pass a lot of certified Cummins dealers and RV service/repair facilities on the 200 mile trip from our home to NAC.
We also have found a valuable resource in the group of owners who share information and help each other. I value their recommendations.
***) who is also a certified Aqua-Hot technician and did all my work for the better part of five years on my Foretravel. There is also a dealer in southern California who sells and works on Foretravels as well.
There's also R-Mechanic in Livermore, CA - about 60 miles East of San Francisco just off I-580
I found them as a recommended FT service center from the FOT website. I've been there many time times. Very good. PLUS a good excuse to spend some time in San Francisco!
Home - R-Mechanic Service Center (http://r-mechanic.com/)
best, paul
as for a surveyor, MOT and FOT will do a pre-buy, or you can hire someone independent like Brett Wolfe (really really good at this job....), often you can get the service history from Prior Owner, my last five years are available from MOT.
My coach is at Parliment in CLearwater as I type this - what part of Florida are you from?
Paul Smith Megadoches is another one of those elusive terms that's not yet in my vocabulary. Though I'm still capable of reverse engineering mechanical systems, I prefer not to.
Thanks Michelle, I'm taking it all in. ;-)
There you go John Christman, "Coach Care" got it! I must say you had me going there for a minute. You've solved one of my vocabulary problem as well, SOB. I've been reading this for days and though I felt it related to other RV's the acronym had me puzzled. I'm not the sharpest tack in the box. I'm repeatedly seeing aqua-hots needing service, or being discussed and it has me thinking that it might be an Achilles Heal?
J D Stevens, it has to be reassuring to be close by.
Paul Smith, I'm familiar with Livermore having lived in Sac while working at Beale AFB. It's real easy for me to spend time in SF, and with lots of friends along the Russian River.
Thanks Tim Fiedler, I'll keep his name handy for when the time comes. I'm in Pinellas, not far from Clearwater. I've seen Parliment from the road, which road is a mystery at the moment. If memory serves they had some Prevost parked in their lot?
lots of Prevost their, was a Foretravel dealer, still a service center, I am having my machine worked on their, will be around Wed - Sat PM, happy to show you mine if you like, bulkhead, aqua hot, etc. Older than you are looking for, but might give you some ideas - forty footer, non tag, single slide
Send me a PM if you are interested. I will post a review of Parliament service after I collect my coach, as you know, I am a MOT, FOt, Xtreme service facility bigot to date.
OK, and I do know the difference between "their" and there", but on a conference call, multi tasking not working.
JuanHappicampa,
You might not have run across this FT feature: Engine heat is used to heat house hot water. So you have hot water when you stop for lunch or stop for the day. Not sure which models have this.
We have aqua-hot and like it a lot. I use it to pre-heat the engine and take the chill off the 'morn.
We used to think the Splendid washer was conspicuous consumption until we got our U320. Now we would not be without one. Plus it spin drys so well/fast we just hang clothing inside the FT and they dry over night.
best, paul
The code used sometimes takes awhile to de-code.
Megadoches, is at least one of the endearing other names for Nacogdoches TX, along with Camp Foretravel (the factory camping lot). Some mention the "free parking" as having a $1000 per day rate. Seems on average, the service tickets seem to be that much, with the ratio between parts and labor varying. I had two half day tickets and the bill was almost spot on the day rate.
As for many we met on our two trips to the plant, we found owners that just scheduled in advance their yearly service, going across the country. But we met norther neighbors that had come 2800 miles to leave there coach for a complete repaint, emptying things into storage till they return in several months. We saw coaches in the shop that were getting $200,000 remodels. One was being just finishing for delivery, and another was on day two of the tear out.
Think you are correct about seeing the Prevosts parked, that would be Parliment.
Your mention of seeing the Aqua Hot as an issue. Just know that it does require yearly service to give the outstanding benefits that the owners enjoy. Know too that someone just posted the re-built unit is $7000, plus labor.
For us and our purchase of a 1993 coach, having the forum and knowing before hand how well the factory has helped owners of classic older coaches, help us to comfortable purchase our Foretravel. Being only 3 hours away helped as well. Having the pleasure of two trips, several days in the shop, and seeing the service crew at work still puts a smile on my face. Met several techs that worked on my coach when it was being built. Had a number of them stop and comment about remembering the old days of building my classic. Cory Rucker, head of service when we were there, started in Production in the early 90's doing wiring in the upper cabinets. The tech that corrected some wiring and installed the touch switch, has been there 37 years, and took only minutes to correct and complete the task. The carpenter that built our interior is the lead in the remodel wood shop, and is ready to build a desk to look like an original install.
I can assure you, I had the oldest, smallest and least expensive coach on the lot or in the shop. Yet we got all the service, help, and more than I could ask for, without regard to what we were driving or spending.
I casually mentioned we really liked the Grand Villa design, and several said they would be more than happy to build me a new one. Careful what you ask for when you get there!
Actually, I believe the correct endearing term is "Meccadoches"
As in "making a pilgrimage to... (with offerings ;) ) "
FT is sometimes also known as "the Mothership"
I keep saying this, but if this forum didn't exist I wouldn't consider a Foretravel. It is wonderful to have the various businesses in Nacogdoches there to support the coaches, but without those on this forum who freely give of their knowledge a Foretravel would just be another expensive motorhome. I'm not going to name brands, but there are several brands where the owners simply go back to the factory for whatever is needed without ever trying to fix the problem themselves. Foretravel people aren't that way, and that's the reason a Foretravel is at the top of our list.
Thank you, all you generous experts, for sharing with those of us who don't really know anything yet.
' FT is sometimes also known as "the Mothership" '
Nope. That's the home of Lazy Daze RVs ;o)
best, paul
I've heard the term "Mothership" applied to Foretravel of Texas, the Tiffin factory in Red Bay, Alabama, and the Airstream factory in Jackson Center, Ohio. I suspect that many brands refer to the factory as the Mothership. Wanderlodge owners, on the other hand, referred to the factory as "The Nest" since their coaches were made by Bluebird.
Thanks for your generous offer Tim Fiedler! Unfortunately I'll be at TIA on Wednesday at 4: 30am waiting on Southwest to carry me northeast. Just knowing that I'm closer than most of these folks to a SATELLITE service center... is making me all warm and fuzzy. Ground control the Major Tom... My writing also becomes distorted when my Bluetooth notifies me that I have a call. Their, there, they're is close enough, things get confusing when it becomes "where" or "bear" ;-)
Paul Smith you've raised my curiosity level again. Here I'm thinking an aquahot is forced hot water from a gas or electric furnace pumped through a closed circuit on one side and faucets+ on the other, thermostatically controlled with temp & pressure readings. You've brought the complexity to a whole new level. Fascinating!
Dave & Dolly decode? I think I'm going to try to inspire Barry to build a database for Foretravel acronyms. Then I'll contact Rosetta Stone Official Rosetta Stone® - Learn a Language Online - Learn Spanish (http://www.rosettastone.com/) and see if they will build a CALL (computer-assisted language learning) package for Foretravelese.
Thanks everyone. I'm feeling like I took a trip and never left the barn. ;-)
Happy Trails!
Juan,
My coach will be at Parliament until early/mid Nov., then down to Homestead for the race, then it winters in New Port Richey at Ja-Mar North with my 88 year old Mom and her 80 year old "boy toy" boyfriend shacking up (such a cougar) -
we will work something out if you like along the way so you can see it before it goes to New Port Richey
So far - so good on Parliament - they called re rear brakes (as they were installing the rear caliper helper springs I bought on line before I went down) - said they were surprised by the wear (more than fronts), but would make another year at 6K ish miles per year, and they would show me when I got down - had the parts prices and labor rate available when I called - prices seemed reasonable. WOnder if their is a front/rear bias issue.....will ask and see what they say
Very good communications with me since I dropped it off, shop has downsized it is clear and living mostly on Maintenance, which is not a bad thing. Means the people that survived are probably their best techs, and that they need repeat maintenance business to stay in business.
"Paul Smith you've raised my curiosity level again. Here I'm thinking an aquahot is forced hot water from a gas or electric furnace pumped through a closed circuit on one side and faucets+ on the other, thermostatically controlled with temp & pressure readings. You've brought the complexity to a whole new level. Fascinating!"
Nope. The fuel in an aqua-hot is electric or diesel....
best, paul
Already been done ;)
RV Abbreviations, Acronyms and Initialisms (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/rv_abbreviations_acronyms_and_initialisms.html)
RV Glossary (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/rv_glossary.html)
You end a quote by putting "slash quote" inside brackets (the square parenthesis). You start a quote by putting just a "quote" inside brackets. And no quotation marks on either one.
I don't think it was Jon as it was someone who was selling their coach and said that the trailer was also available. Jon, however, is definitely a pioneer in self-sufficiency. I hope he gets his blog finished.
Craig
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An interesting observation. We have been in a park in Northern California for 6 months, have had 3 Foretravels come through. Last week a most interesting GV was here, it was a 1991, 36ft., Cat 3208, with Torsion Suspension at all four corners, the first I have ever seen. Upon closer inspection this Coach has only 6in. ground clearance from the engine pan protect bars to the pavement. Needless to say you don't go Boondocking with this rig.
Question the Torsion Suspension looks like a failed experiment, this guy's coach is really low, is there a fix?
Here's a
good great start Torsilastic suspension ride height adjustment (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=13936.msg79142#msg79142)
Yup, the ride height is adjustable on the Torsilastic suspension. Sounds like it was not set properly.
That was a very early Foretavel on the Torsilastic suspension (made by B.F. Goodrich aerospace division). It was used in U225's and U240's up through 1995.
Sold and drove alot of birds. Painted metal is hotter and colder hence the elaborate heating setups. Close to the ground also. Curved roofline makes the shower less tall. 2 miles of wiring in a bird. You better know an expert tech.
Almost crashed a 40' bird once as I was having so much fun playing with and looking at the dials and buttons.