Today I discovered that the transmission on our U225 (a 4-speed Allison... 643 I think) will not go into reverse despite the shift lever making it appear that it should.
I noticed the last time we drove it that the linkage was stiff and I could no longer force the lever down into the lowest setting. And one time I had some problems getting the unit into reverse. But now it simply will not reverse.
Since reverse is required (several times) to get the unit out of where we store it, this presents something of a dilemma.
I have not yet checked the linkage all the way to the transmission as that requires two people. Sunday will be the earliest. I suspect that it's more than just a lubrication problem but that might be all that it is. The shifting is very stiff and forcing it makes me nervous.
Any ideas?
Craig
Craig, our first Foretravel-93 u225 had the same problem. After fooling around a number of times with the linkage-both at the transmission and the gear box, we had Foretravel replace the cable. Never had another problem. We blocked a couple streets when it wouldn't go into reverse. Not happy neighbors.
Not an easy job to replace the cable as very little room to work. Also, parts MAY not be available..but that is easy to check in the AM.
MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THE CORRECT CABLE.. Techs spent a couple hours replacing only to find out it was a foot short....yup, wrong cable...will say the second one was a lot easier to install.
PM me if any questions.
I was hoping someone would have a simple solution. I have no doubt that full replacement will be a PITA. I should still check the operation at the trannie end though. Just in case something has slipped.
Craig
I had a 4 speed Allison with the exact same problem. Turned out to be a very easy adjustment to the linkage at the transmission. As I recall, you can put it in reverse, then move the linkage and you can see the adjustment needed as it actually goes into reverse.
We had the cable adjusted twice, and that corrected the problem temporarily. When we had the cable replaced, we were told that when they get old, they stretch a bit, causing them to need adjustment.
Okay, at how many miles should I expect to experience this???
Pat, as mentioned numerous times; motor homes don't like to sit. If exercised regularly don't believe this is a problem. FWIW
It seems to me that if it's an issue with the cable stretching then use is a contributing factor. The cable, left all by itself, might rust but isn't likely to stretch. The stretching would be more likely caused by normal usage; e.g.: shifting from neutral to drive, back to reverse, back to neutral, etc.
With mine it seems to also be binding somewhat. I'm going to use some lubricant down the cable and see if that does something. It's all "downhill" in the cable to the transmission so light lube into the cable behind the shift lever should dribble down.
We're also going to check the movement at the transmission this Sunday.
FYI: Our U225 has about 80,000 miles.
Craig
I'd try a lube made for bicycle cables.
and maybe try the brake or power steering fluid as that stuff is very thin. I do not know what the end looks like at the end you disconnect but if you can cut a piece of paper and make a sort of funnel around the inner cable you can then pour the thin oil into that funnel and allow it to run down over an hour or so. This way you get lots in there for lubrication. I have done this on cables before and it worked.
John h
They sell cable lubes and cable lubers. Google (http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en#q=cable+lube&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=2seAUPPFCczI0AHbuIG4AQ&sqi=2&ved=0CEMQsxg&bav=on.2),or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=ae967c9de7bb667f&bpcl=35466521&biw=1092&bih=522
Since we know that someone at FOT provided the wrong cable for Jeff's replacement, who would be the best person at NAC to know which cable would be the right one for our U225? If I have to replace the shift cable (to the tune of $400 or so) I only want to do it once!
Craig
As I recall, they did not charge Jeff for the labor for the short cable. I still think FOT would be your best bet but I would also exhaust all efforts to adjust the cable and loosen the bind before making that repair.
Since I won't be able to do it at FOT (probably at the Spokane "partner" location) I don't want to take the chance that *they* will want to charge someone if they installed the wrong part.
But I agree... I'm going to work hard at figuring out what's wrong first. There may be a relatively easy fix. I just need to get someone who can work the shift lever while I check it out. Sucks that so many people have jobs. LOL
Craig
When we lived on Contadora in Panama the brakes on Kawasaki mule would lock up from salt water when they where run on the beaches. I fabricate an oilier from a piece of fuel line that would fit over the end of the cable,a hose bib, a pipe concentric reducer, a pipe plug drilled and tapped for 1/4" NPT. After slipping the hose over the cable I would lock it in place with Two hose clamps. Then fill the reducer with wd-40. Install pipe plug and hook up air supply with regulator. First I would set psi to 20 psi . Next AM checked far end of cable if no wd-40 set regulator to 30 psi . Never took more that 30 psi to have wd-40 leaking from far end of cable . Then it was just working the cable back and forth till it was free. A set of brake cables for us was $200 so I learned fast how to free them and how to keep them lubed. Gamb
For me, If I had the mechanical Morris type shifter cable, I would change it over the the electric shift version, a simple fix, new panel at driver seat and a electric module on the transmission, simple fix you can do. It ain't rocket type stuff, just simple, been done on many coach's & Transit types, Check it out. If your transmission shop does not know this simple fix, recommend you look for a more smart shop.
Dave M
Dave... funny you should mention this as I was laying in bed this morning thinking that it would not be all that difficult to fabricate an electronic shifting mechanism using a servo. Do you have any more information on this device? Is it by Morris? I can't find anything on the web. Sounds like a good solution to me.
Craig
Craig,
I have never purchased the electric conversion setup for the Allison, but have worked around several of them. I think it is a Allison kit, the name of Morris is the brand name of the cable like that is used, like on boats or any remote that a cable could be used on, just a brand name.
Would be checking with a REAL Allison shop, they sure would have access to the kit I am sure.
Dave M
Craig, this may get you on track to a electronic shifter.Stone Bennett and Go-Power System's Home Page (http://www.stonebennett.com).
Thanks, Bill! I've emailed a distributor for Stone Bennett for a price quote. I'll keep everyone posted on this.
Craig
Okay now that the wiring issue has been resolved we move on back to the reverse issue. This afternoon the DW and I began to suspect that the problem is in the shifting mechanism in the cab so we disconnected the shifter cable from the transmission shift lever. The lever moves smoothly through the gears (with the engine off).
The shifting lever in the cab is even tighter and more difficult to move now than it was last fall. Barely moves from D through N to R and back. Will not go further than 3 without serious effort. Something is clearly up with either the cable itself or the shifting mechanism. The DW, who is a school bus driver, is going to chat with the mechanic tomorrow and see what ideas he has. It is now either the cable or the shifter in the cab.
On the plus side, with a long tool we can move the motor home from its location. Just that someone will have to handle the shifting remotely. :dance:
If anyone has any further information on the Allison electronic shifter for the 4-speed transmission (replacement for the shift lever) I'd like to hear it. A Google search hasn't revealed the answer.
Craig
Craig,
Thinking the problem might be related to cable lubrication, I have had excellent success on long aircraft throttle cables. I took three or four feet of fuel hose, split it for a foot or so, used several small hose clamps to tighten the split hose around almost the end of the cable (the end with the throttle fitting is still sticking out), filled the rest of the hose with LPS lub and then pressurized it with air forcing the lubricant all the way out to the engines on the wings. I lost almost none in the cockpit but had it come out the other end. The throttles were smooth as glass after that. Not sure if this is anything like your setup but though I might suggest the possibility.
Pierce
Pierce...that might work. Getting the cable disconnected from the shifter mechanism could be a real PITA but has to be done. So tomorrow I'll give that a go. Pretty tight in there. :(
Thanks for the idea. :)
Craig
I have had to replace a couple of those shifter cables when I worked for foretravel in Tampa, and it was not a fun job. Maybe as has been suggested you can get some lubrication into the cable housing and get it freed up.
Craig,
When I said split it, I meant down one side only so I could slip it over the cable without pushing it straight on from the end. Most of the time, the end has a larger fitting on it so you can't push anything over it. Important to put a hose clamp right where the split ends and you decide to make the turn. Naturally, you want to go uphill after that so you can fill the hose with lub. I just used an air gun into the hose after filling it. With all your experience, sure you will figure that one out.
Hope this may fix it.
Pierce
Pierce.... yup I get the idea. Splitting the hose in that way doesn't require disconnecting the cable. Sounds like a workable plan to me. I'm going to gather up the stuff to do it today. Not sure if anyone sells LPS in anything other than aerosol form around here but I'll find out. Thanks for the idea. :)
Craig
I'm pretty sure Jeff Savournin had the shift cable replaced on his 93, 225 at FOT. Cost was substantial as I recall. Maybe PM Jeff and see what he has to say.
I'm pursuing the lube option right now and if that doesn't work I think I'll look harder at the pushbutton option. We can drive the rig... but someone has to shift it manually with a long fork-tool. I just hope the DW can run fast enough. b^.^d
Craig :)
Regarding the Stone Bennett air shift for an MT643, this outfit offers a bolt-on system and the rep (Tom Hall) says that the hardest part of the installation is running the control cable from the driver's position.
Stone Bennett Shifters (http://www.coachconversioncentral.com/stonebennett.htm)
The price is a bit high... he quoted me $2500 for the kit; this does not include installation costs.
Working on the lube option even harder now.
Craig
It's definitely the cable. The DW works for a school district and their mechanic kindly came over to give us a hint. It took him about 15 minutes to determine that the cable was faulty and explain just how to run a new cable. His recommendation was not to buy the air-operated shifting system but to simply keep it simple and fix the mechanical linkage.
So now we go measure the existing control cable, find a new on (Allison seems the most likely source) and buy it. Then we get to crawl around under the coach (again) and install it.
Not for a couple of days though... taking the mountain bikes and a tent and headed into northern Idaho first. :)
Craig
When you get the old one out you may want to look at teleflex or morse marine control cables.Gam
If you don't cut the cable, you can have a new one built to exactly replace it. Had mt Morris cables made to order.
Bet the problem is within 5' of the Trans End. The cause is road grunge and salt water thrown up and it wicks in around the worn out rubber cap. Try PB Penetrating Oil or get a Cable Brake Lube device at your local Motorcycle shop.
The sheathing is broken at the top and I could not get a tight enough seal around it to get lubricant down the cable. The mechanic (who can rebuild every engine the school district uses in its buses, trucks and cars) says that the outer sheath cracks and moisture gets in and then it's all over but the shouting.
He also said to keep the cable in place until I can get a new one and then tape the two together at the bottom end and then use the old cable like a "wire fish" to bring the new one in. After it's in he said to take hydraulic hose and cut it length wise and tie-wrap it in place wherever there is a rub spot.
Thanks, everyone, for the ideas about where to get the new cable. :)
Craig
Another way is to attach a small rope or electrical fish tape to the old cable .Pull the old cable out and leave the rope in it's place. That way you can match the new cable to the old before you install it. Gam
Great idea! I think I have a good fish tape somewhere. Although measuring the cable in place is probably not all that difficult. As soon as the mountain bike trip is over I'll take a look at this method. Thanks. :)
Craig
What length new cable are you going to pull in IF you have zero idea of the length??
half inch too short sure won't work, extra length will have to be squirreled away some place and might not be simple. Might be able to have FOT have one made up for your build number.
Me, I like the idea of removing it with the fish tape pulled thru as you remove the old cable, then you know the length, have new made up and presto.
Not every shop can make those cables, but any large truck supplier would be my first guess.
I had a pair made up for shifting the 10 speed trany in the MCI, they cost about $500 I think (20 years ago Memory)
The lighter model needed for the auto, I would guess about the same.
I would go to the electric model.
Dave M
If you go back with cables I'd take a good look at the Teleflex Extreme line. They take very little force even at long lengths and tight bends and last for years in saltwater. A quick check shows you can get a 40' cable for $157.00. They go up to 66'. Definitely want to get the old one out to get an exact measure though, just pull in a messenger when you pull the cable.
The project was finished this morning!!! I must say that it's been an adventure.
First of all... we did run a messenger when we pulled the old shifter cable out (from the rear). However pulling the new cable in turned out to be difficult because the old one was apparently put in before some of the other cabling in the channel and when it came out the others shifted and blocked us from simply pulling in the new one. So we had to open up a couple of the channel covers and pull it in that way. One compartment at a time.
Secondly... take photos of all the assemblies before you start disassembling the units. We discovered this when Sue (who has smaller hands and less inclination to percussive impulses) had to re-do the cab connections 9 times. Each time she thought something was up but it was, finally, a nut on the shaft that didn't belong.
Rig starts and shifts through the detents correctly. We are happy campers.
Craig