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Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: morninghill on November 14, 2012, 12:58:37 pm

Title: Fleetguard LF9070 - extended drain interval?
Post by: morninghill on November 14, 2012, 12:58:37 pm
Cummins shows the current oil filter for the ISM450 as the LF9070. Fleetguard shows this filter as one of their Venturi combo lube filters. They claim you can double the oil drain interval up to 75,000 miles. http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/LT36043.pdf (http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/LT36043.pdf)

So, does this change anything for motorhomes?
Title: Re: Fleetguard LF9070 - extended drain interval?
Post by: Keith and Joyce on November 14, 2012, 01:04:28 pm
Have not looked into this fully but remember it's not only filtering out contaminants that matter.  Besides that it's depletion of the additive package that matters.  If the TBN (Total Base Number) of the oil falls below a certain point you will risk engine damage from acidic corrosion.

Don't base oil change recommendations on generalities.  Each engine service duty cycle is different.

Keith
Title: Re: Fleetguard LF9070 - extended drain interval?
Post by: PatC on November 15, 2012, 12:02:35 pm
http://www.oil-lab.com/downloads/TBN-1.pdf (http://www.oil-lab.com/downloads/TBN-1.pdf) "TBN Retention - Are We Missing the Point ?  Diesel Engine Lubricant Characterization Using Multiple Used Oil Analyses"
Title: Re: Fleetguard LF9070 - extended drain interval?
Post by: Dick S on November 15, 2012, 05:41:35 pm
Ahem, can you boil that last one down to a couple sentences a 5th grader could grasp? ;D
Title: Re: Fleetguard LF9070 - extended drain interval?
Post by: John Haygarth on November 15, 2012, 07:56:32 pm
I agree Dick, that is tough reading and not only because of the grammer and typo mistakes. Boy !!!
John H
Title: Re: Fleetguard LF9070 - extended drain interval?
Post by: Keith and Joyce on November 16, 2012, 11:51:50 am
The use of the TBN number is just a convenient guide to oil change intervals as there are other indicators that can also only be determined by an oil analysis.  We used it as we had a large number of units of different sizes, duty cycles and fuels.  We did not care about it on a daily basis but only when doing oil change interval analysis.

We can really over-think this folks.  The amount of use to oil change interval in an RV is well taken care of if you follow the engine manufacturers recommendations.

These technical papers are meant for others in the industry who know how to read them.  It's like reading a medical book.  By the end of it you will find you have several conditions that you never knew you had!

Remember, the manufactures know a lot more about their engines than the users do.  If you can ever get a tour of their engine plants and or research facilities you would be impressed.  I know I have been.

Keith
Title: Re: Fleetguard LF9070 - extended drain interval?
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on November 16, 2012, 12:23:19 pm
First, the TBN was of great concern when we had a high sulfer diesel fuel (Like what you get in Mexico), todays ULSD is very little concern for most folks who do routine oil changes, the fact ramains, sulfer and water = sulfuric acid, a wonderful bearing / soft metal eater.

As  for the Fleetgard FL9070 oil filter, I have added an attachment worth reading.
One large factoid, the ISX engine and the FL9070 could have an issue, so google the FL9070 and read  up on the warning.  Has to do with the O ring in the filter getting cut and the pieces going thru the oil galleys making possible problems, give it a read for better info.

Cheers
Dave M
Title: Re: Fleetguard LF9070 - extended drain interval?
Post by: Green99 on November 16, 2012, 07:50:49 pm
From my conversations, and what I have read everyone has a different recommendation or interval.. The coach manufacturer has a recommendation, as does the engine manufacturer.  I have determined that I will send out a sample rather than a change at the first recommended cycle.  The oil analysis should help make the decision.
Jerry
Title: Re: Fleetguard LF9070 - extended drain interval?
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on November 16, 2012, 08:10:21 pm

Since Dave brought it up, here is an article about Pemex and ULSD (<15 ppm) from late last year. PEMEX - The Facts About Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) ~ BGL News Archive (http://www.bajagoodlifenews.com/2011/11/pemex-facts-about-ultra-low-sulfur.html)

ULSD is available in all the border areas and Mexico City. Late model coaches could void their warranty if traveling deeper into Mexico where the ULSD is not in stations. This would include the Cabo area also I think.

Pierce
Title: Re: Fleetguard LF9070 - extended drain interval?
Post by: PatC on November 17, 2012, 12:26:02 am
If you can ever get a tour of their engine plants and or research facilities you would be impressed.  I know I have been.

Keith
I knew some of the old time Cummins Engineers at the Cummins Engine Plant in Jamestown, NY.  They were working on developing ceramic coated turbos back then.  Most of the guys I knew there have retired.  One of the guys I still know is a trouble shooter and travels all over for Cummins. 

But I'd rather tour a oil refinery lab and talk to some of the lube engineers there, which I have had the opportunity to get into several of them many different times and to talk to the engineers in them.  I've only been in the refineries doing dino stuff, but would love to get into one doing synthetics.  The things they are doing with oils today in mindboggling.

And Dave is right about TBN being a greater concern with the old high sulfer diesel.  Many labs are even charging extra for the TBN test today, when it was included in the past.
Title: Re: Fleetguard LF9070 - extended drain interval?
Post by: spike45 on November 19, 2012, 01:44:19 am
Cummins shows the current oil filter for the ISM450 as the LF9070. Fleetguard shows this filter as one of their Venturi combo lube filters. They claim you can double the oil drain interval up to 75,000 miles. http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/LT36043.pdf (http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/LT36043.pdf)

So, does this change anything for motorhomes?

As a retired Fleetguard Field Engineer, I can tell you that the brochure you list is one of the early ones when we brought the original Venturi product to market.  On M11 engines that used the Cummins Centinel System, the change interval of the filter was 75,000 miles.  The Centinel system burned crankcase oil by remixing a fraction of a % with incoming fuel while metering in an equal amount of new oil.  Cummins does not allow Fleetguard to set change intervals on Cummins engines......then or now.

Originally, the ISM filter was the LF9001 a short version of the LF9000 for the ISX and some ISM if there was room for such a long filter to be installed.

The LF9070 is a revised media version of the original 9001.  Cummins wanted a new part number for the OE installed filter and Fleetguard marketing manager decided to rename the product line.  Earlier LF9001 had some very short life issues on  ISX but never on ISM.

Gary Spires
Spike45
Retired Fleetguard (Cummins) Field Engineer
Title: Re: Fleetguard LF9070 - extended drain interval?
Post by: amos.harrison on November 19, 2012, 06:08:29 am
Yes, I use the LF9070 with my Centinel system.
Title: Re: Fleetguard LF9070 - extended drain interval?
Post by: morninghill on November 19, 2012, 10:31:52 am
As a retired Fleetguard Field Engineer, I can tell you that the brochure you list is one of the early ones when we brought the original Venturi product to market.  On M11 engines that used the Cummins Centinel System, the change interval of the filter was 75,000 miles.  The Centinel system burned crankcase oil by remixing a fraction of a % with incoming fuel while metering in an equal amount of new oil.  Cummins does not allow Fleetguard to set change intervals on Cummins engines......then or now.

Originally, the ISM filter was the LF9001 a short version of the LF9000 for the ISX and some ISM if there was room for such a long filter to be installed.

The LF9070 is a revised media version of the original 9001.  Cummins wanted a new part number for the OE installed filter and Fleetguard marketing manager decided to rename the product line.  Earlier LF9001 had some very short life issues on  ISX but never on ISM.

Gary Spires
Spike45
Retired Fleetguard (Cummins) Field Engineer

Thanks to all, but particularly to you Gary. Your history puts this in context. Will follow the Cummins guidelines.