Foretravel Owners' Forum

Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Dick S on January 07, 2013, 01:13:50 pm

Title: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Dick S on January 07, 2013, 01:13:50 pm
2 days ago this caliper (drive axle, drivers side) got so hot lots of smoke was boiling out from under and I had fire extinguisher in hand. This has happened two other times on this caliper, but didn't get quite so hot. First indication is smelling the hot pad.
Two service shops have looked at it, didn't have parts (new caliper) and just lube the pins.
We are en route to FOT and I want to have it fixed properly there. I was considering disconnecting the service brake air line from that can so that it would not work when I apply the brake, leaving me with brakes on 5 wheels. But, after talking to James this morning, I am going to back the adjustment out so that the pads are away from that rotor. I didn't think to ask James about what the automatic slack adjuster will do. Will I have to back that adjustment out again after each day or two of driving? We are near San Francisco; so still a long drive to Nac.
Any other suggestions?
Dick
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Fixall on January 07, 2013, 05:32:35 pm
Brake caliper overheating - smoking.  I owned a 1993 Foretravel U280 diesel and after several occasions of the rear brake pads dragging and having to replace one disk, I found that the manufacturer marketed helper springs to release the pressure on those pads.  The rear brakes have a large cylinder that applies parking braking brakes, making it much heavier than the front ones.  After installing these helper springs one all four wheels I had no further problem with the brakes dragging.  When we bought our present motorhome, a 1999 U 295, I had Foretravel install these helper springs on all four wheels.  After 140,000 plus miles I have had no problems whatsoever with brake pads overheating and am still using my original pads and original disks.  I hope this solves your problem. 

Fixall 
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: John S on January 07, 2013, 06:28:38 pm
Check the park brake spring too. That might be weak and allowing the calipers to rub too.
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on January 08, 2013, 05:32:50 am
My 95 U320 sat for a long time and the brakes were frozen (guide pins). I shot some penetrating down the pins and let it sit. I then gave the caliper a few whacks with a 5# hammer and broke them lose.
I adjusted the slack adjusters and bought a thermo infrared thermometer from Harbor freight for about $30. When I drive the coach I get out at stops and take  a reading with the thermometer aiming at the rotor. I'm instantly able to see when there is abnormal heat at the caliper indicating a dragging or too tight slack adjuster. All is well.
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on January 08, 2013, 10:24:05 am
Suggest you use http://www.yelp.com (http://www.yelp.com) or a like site to review shops that do brakes on large vehicles. While the brakes on your rig may seem complicated, to a decent brake specialist, they are much simpler that many of the other complex systems our rigs have.

Nothing against FOT, but there are many shops close to you that see a huge amount of brake traffic and can diagnose your problem very quickly. Besides looking online, go by a tour bus company or fire department and ask the master mechanic/shop foreman who are the good guys.

Pierce
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: John S on January 08, 2013, 11:54:47 am
Most firetrucks have meritor air disc brakes. I had mine done at Cummins in Roanoke.  They understood them and can  fix them too.
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Michelle on January 08, 2013, 12:49:19 pm
We are near San Francisco; so still a long drive to Nac.
Any other suggestions?

Most firetrucks have meritor air disc brakes. I had mine done at Cummins in Roanoke.  They understood them and can  fix them too.

John's post jogged my memory....

Dick - how about that place in SoCal that Barry just used?  Sounds like they understood the brakes

Colton Truck Terminal Garage (was What did you do to your coach today) (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=16948.0)
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Dick S on January 09, 2013, 12:41:25 am
I am stopping at Colton tomorrow.

Dick On Jan 8, 2013 9:49 AM, "Michelle"  wrote:
Quote

Quote from: Dick S

We are near San Francisco; so still a long drive to Nac. Any other suggestions?

Quote from: John S

Most firetrucks have meritor air disc brakes. I had mine done at Cummins in Roanoke. They understood them and can fix them too.

Dick - how about that place in SoCal that Barry just used? Sounds like they understood the brakes

Colton Truck Terminal Garage (was What did you do to your coach today) (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=16948.0)

'03 U320 40'
'03 Honda CR-V
and the Posse
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Dick S on January 18, 2013, 06:36:09 pm
We received prompt, competent, and reasonably priced service at Colton Truck. They capped off both air lines to that caliper and caged the spring brake. They jacked up the wheel to check the bearings and could barely rotate the wheel because the pad was still against the rotor. After prying the caliper open it freed up and I was on my way. I will drive to Nac with brakes on 5 wheels and get it repaired there.
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: John S on January 18, 2013, 06:40:54 pm
I do not think I would drive that far missing a brake. Couldn't they fix it there?
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Dick S on January 18, 2013, 07:51:42 pm
I'm sure they could, but parts would have to be ordered and we needed to move along.
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: MR B2 on January 19, 2013, 10:00:14 pm
San Francisco to Texas is 1500 miles, Thats a good drive, Be very carefull with only 5 brakes working,

I know about the distance, Because my Coach was delivered from Texas to California to the shippers and conversion factory,
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: John S on January 20, 2013, 03:14:42 pm
You might consider having the helper springs installed when the repair your brakes. 
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: wolfe10 on January 20, 2013, 06:09:27 pm
I would change John's suggestion to a REQUIREMENT!
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: John S on January 21, 2013, 07:49:09 pm
Brett you are right but I figured I would be a bit less forceful.
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: wolfe10 on January 21, 2013, 08:11:05 pm
John,

It is such an inexpensive part (actually parts), and a very important upgrade for brake systems that are used "less frequently" that it is basically a no brainer.
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Dick S on January 21, 2013, 08:16:41 pm
John & Brett, thank you both. Helper springs will definitely be installed. I would really like to have them all the way around. Will probably buy them even if I have to install them later.
Dick
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Dick S on January 21, 2013, 08:20:29 pm
Is there any way to protect these slide pins from the elements? I talked to one fire department that "...finally only has Meritor disc brakes on the front axle". Too many problems was implied.
Dick
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on January 21, 2013, 08:26:47 pm
Dick, the Meritor brakes are fine as long as one does the maintence needed, meaning cleaning the slide pins every year or so.  Me, I would be happy with the older S Cam drum style brakes along with the retarder,  the retarder makes either work much better.
Yes, problems with the disc setup is lack of care mostly.
Some think greasing the slide pins is the answer, actually the grease attracts grit/dirt, making for a sooner issue.  Dry silicone spray seems usable.
Dave M
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Michelle on January 21, 2013, 08:40:52 pm
John & Brett, thank you both. Helper springs will definitely be installed. I would really like to have them all the way around. Will probably buy them even if I have to install them later.

FOT should have them in stock - at least they were ordering stock when we were there in October.

If not, FinditParts has them for $17.66 per pair and there's a coupon code of NEW456 to save 10% as part of their redesigned website "celebration".  Ours were drop-shipped direct from Meritor.  We'll be taken them to Nac in the spring to have them installed.

KIT15018-MERITOR-KIT (http://www.finditparts.com/t/575/manufacturer/meritor/products/39506/arvin-meritor-kit15018)

Michelle
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on January 21, 2013, 09:04:22 pm
Thanks Michelle, I just ordered the 4 kits for my coach along with the discount code.
Many Thanks
Dave M
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Michelle on January 21, 2013, 09:15:33 pm
You're welcome, Dave.  Obviously the helper springs aren't a replacement for good maintenance practices, but they're a very reasonable price for the additional peace of mind.  Some things are worth a belt and suspenders.

Michelle
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on January 21, 2013, 10:01:16 pm
What is sort of funny, Gary who works for us is also the Motor Sergent for the local Vol Fire Dept, he is familiar with the these disk brakes, so he went thru them when I bought the coach 4+ yrs ago, so he will install the springs, and sez the fire trucks could use them too.  Just a non stop learning curve and I just found all the light switches, gosh this is good.
Dave M
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Jim Frerichs on January 21, 2013, 10:22:25 pm
Helper springs installation ...is it necessary to remove the pins? I'm probably dreaming, but It sure would be easier if they can be spiraled on.
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Tim Fiedler on January 21, 2013, 11:01:45 pm
I had four sets put on at Parliment this fall, suggested I need rear brakes and rotors on next trip as they had been "sticking" at some point.
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Dick S on January 21, 2013, 11:57:31 pm
Yep, thanks Michelle. I also ordered 4 sets using the coupon code.
Dick
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Rick on January 22, 2013, 09:20:18 am
Helper springs installation ...is it necessary to remove the pins? I'm probably dreaming, but It sure would be easier if they can be spiraled on.
In the thread below I detailed the process. Removing the pins is very easy, once you get the wheels off. Best to take the pins out and clean them up anyway. The springs would probably be destroyed by spiraling them on and I doubt you would be able to get them on anyway but you can try.
Good luck,
Rick

Helper springs on Meritor disc brakes (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=16318.msg103973#msg103973)
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Rudy on January 22, 2013, 09:28:31 am
Thank you Michelle.

Ordered my four sets this morning.
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Dean & Dee on January 27, 2013, 01:41:19 pm
                         Crawled under the coach and verified that the slide pins did not have the helper springs installed and checked the condition of the pins. They definitely need cleaning so I ordered 4 kits from Finditparts.com. About $80.00 with shipping and a 10% coupon code I found online.

                Not sure yet if I will tackle the job or wait until we get to Nac sometime next month.

        Dean
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: P. Wyatt Sabourin on January 27, 2013, 03:25:44 pm
Cleaning the caliper slide pins and installing the Meritor helper springs is not a complicated task, I did it myself. It took about one hour per spring and the most challenging  and difficult task was removing the wheels. I replaced the tires last week and the tire shop allowed me to install the springs after they removed the wheels (on the rear). I removed the front wheels and installed the springs on the front about two weeks ago.

I ran a 3/8-16 tap into each hole to clean the threads before turning in a 3/8 bolt that was about 3 inches long. Then removed the cotter key and the nut on the clamping bolt. Then cleaned the pin every where I could see with thin strips of abrasive scrub cloth. I then hammered (small hammer) the pin inward about 1/2 inch and cleaned the pin again. I could then just pull on the 3/8 bolt with pliers while wiggling and rotating bolt. I did have to hammer on a crescent wrench on one bolt to remove the pin.

The crud on the pins was mostly brake dust and the most dirty was the lower pin on the driver side front which was also the brake which would drag at times.

Front pads looked new (107,000 miles), however the rear pads on passenger side had worn more on one end then the other (perhaps dragging sometimes). Even rear pads have lots of life left. The lower, driver side pin on the rear was badly corroded with the chrome gone except where it was protected by the caliper bushings.

Does anyone know the part number for the pins? 




Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Jim Frerichs on January 27, 2013, 04:42:26 pm
Hi Wyatt,

The Meritor # KIT15016 contains springs now too...at least two springs came with my order about a year ago for two pins for my 2002. Yea, lots of fun removing the wheels yourself.

Quote

Does anyone know the part number for the pins?

Wyatt

96 U320 40 WTFE
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Dick S on January 27, 2013, 08:15:53 pm
A small update...
We have come 1,300 miles from Colton Truck to Lake Medina near San Antonio. It is such a relief to aim the IR thermometer at that disk and read 80 F instead of 800! I have really not noticed any appreciable difference in braking. And we will be at FOT on Thursday in another 330 miles to have it properly repaired.
Dick
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: P. Wyatt Sabourin on January 28, 2013, 12:33:20 pm
Jim, you said: "The Meritor # KIT15016 contains springs"

I did find the "Meritor #KIT15016", which contains one pin and the clamp bolt/nut/washer with the "clamp bolt spring" which is not the spring used on the caliper. This kit is circa $140. I was hoping I could buy just the pin, but apparently not.
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Jim Frerichs on January 28, 2013, 01:02:07 pm
Wyatt,

Oh, you're right right - the spring is for clamp bolt.

In September 2010 I ordered slide pin Kit 15016 from Bill Clark at Truck and Trailer in Tucson for $140 each.  I was told Kit 15017 is for pins only. 520-623-3663

Other sources I heard about at the time: MHC Kenworth in Dallas 214-920-730 and Ryder Fleet Products 800-759-6479 which has several locations.

Good luck,
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Michelle on January 28, 2013, 02:48:40 pm
Wyatt,

Oh, you're right right - the spring is for clamp bolt.

In September 2010 I ordered slide pin Kit 15016 from Bill Clark at Truck and Trailer in Tucson for $140 each.  I was told Kit 15017 is for pins only.

FindItParts shows KIT15017 which appears to be just a slide pin for $152.53 KIT15017-MERITOR-KITPINSLIDE (http://www.finditparts.com/products/39505/arvin-meritor-kit15017)

KIT15016 is the slide pin kit for just $3.06 more KIT15016-MERITOR-SLIDE PIN KIT (http://www.finditparts.com/products/39504/arvin-meritor-kit15016)

If it's still valid, coupon code NEW456 would save you 10% off those prices (if they're competitive - I haven't priced them to see).

-M
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Dean & Dee on January 28, 2013, 04:18:30 pm

If it's still valid, coupon code NEW456 would save you 10% off those prices (if they're competitive - I haven't priced them to see).

-M
                    Coupon code NEW456 is the one that I used yesterday and it was still good.
       
              Dean
Title: Re: Brake caliper overheating - smoking!
Post by: Barry & Cindy on January 28, 2013, 06:16:32 pm
I thought the slide pins come in a box of two each. Don't know if they are priced for two.