Title: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 16, 2013, 09:23:43 pm
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 16, 2013, 09:23:43 pm
If your diesel fuel lines are more than ten years old, you may wish take special care to inspect them for cracks, leaks, and seeps.
D'oh! Generator kept failing to run. Diagnosis at FOT was "bad fuel lines." Today Alton and crew replaced all the diesel fuel lines for the generator and the C-8.3. They pulled the 149 gallon fuel tank, replaced fittings with appropriate compression fittings, and replaced all the lines with new style lines.
They reported, and showed me, the seeping fittings and cracking lines. They told me I was probably fortunate that I did not have a failure of the "big" engine because of air in the fuel lines. They are replacing lots of fuel lines on coaches that were built around 1997.
They reported that an owner of a coach of similar vintage came in for service recently. The engine died before he got into a parking spot. The engine would not start again because of the volume of air invading the fuel lines. They pushed the coach about Camp Foretravel and into the shop with a specially rigged fork lift. That's a much better deal that requiring a tow at the side of the road.
D'oh! Generator kept failing to run. Diagnosis at FOT was "bad fuel lines." Today Alton and crew replaced all the diesel fuel lines for the generator and the C-8.3. They pulled the 149 gallon fuel tank, replaced fittings with appropriate compression fittings, and replaced all the lines with new style lines.
They reported, and showed me, the seeping fittings and cracking lines. They told me I was probably fortunate that I did not have a failure of the "big" engine because of air in the fuel lines. They are replacing lots of fuel lines on coaches that were built around 1997.
They reported that an owner of a coach of similar vintage came in for service recently. The engine died before he got into a parking spot. The engine would not start again because of the volume of air invading the fuel lines. They pushed the coach about Camp Foretravel and into the shop with a specially rigged fork lift. That's a much better deal that requiring a tow at the side of the road.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: geomm on January 16, 2013, 10:06:53 pm
Post by: geomm on January 16, 2013, 10:06:53 pm
I'll take a few close-up pics of the 30 foot fuel hose I just replaced -- when I'm back over there this Saturday to maybe use as a comparison to what your main feed hose is looking like these days.
The severe cracking on the O.D. was consistent along the entire length. So -- it's not a heat-related (due to location to a heat-exchanger, exhaust piping, etc), or too tight of a radius over time -- issue. It definitely is a failure from the deterioration of the material, starting at the I.D. and ultimately allowing the suction side of the delivery system to pull air right through the hose wall.
Regards,
Michael
The severe cracking on the O.D. was consistent along the entire length. So -- it's not a heat-related (due to location to a heat-exchanger, exhaust piping, etc), or too tight of a radius over time -- issue. It definitely is a failure from the deterioration of the material, starting at the I.D. and ultimately allowing the suction side of the delivery system to pull air right through the hose wall.
Regards,
Michael
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Chuck Pearson on January 17, 2013, 09:29:26 am
Post by: Chuck Pearson on January 17, 2013, 09:29:26 am
They pushed the coach about Camp Foretravel and into the shop with a specially rigged fork lift. That's a much better deal that requiring a tow at the side of the road.
Picked the rear wheels up off the ground? That would be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 17, 2013, 09:49:15 am
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 17, 2013, 09:49:15 am
Picked the rear wheels up off the ground? That would be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: BobW on January 17, 2013, 10:03:58 am
Post by: BobW on January 17, 2013, 10:03:58 am
Here is how Rocky Mt Cummins pushed our Foretravel
Bob
2000 U270
Bob
2000 U270
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Brad on January 17, 2013, 10:08:14 am
Post by: Brad on January 17, 2013, 10:08:14 am
JD,
Did they drain your fuel tank to remove and then refill with the drained fuel? I guess they could not attach the fuel lines without removing the tank??
Thanks,
Did they drain your fuel tank to remove and then refill with the drained fuel? I guess they could not attach the fuel lines without removing the tank??
Thanks,
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: John Haygarth on January 17, 2013, 10:15:54 am
Post by: John Haygarth on January 17, 2013, 10:15:54 am
I would have thought they would make a unit that fits in both of the rectangular tubes either end of the hitch cross beam. That way you have a more even loading as there is a lot of weight going on that hitch when unit is just off ground.
John H
John H
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 17, 2013, 10:32:35 am
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 17, 2013, 10:32:35 am
JD,
Did they drain your fuel tank to remove and then refill with the drained fuel? I guess they could not attach the fuel lines without removing the tank??
Some pictures are attached.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 17, 2013, 10:39:04 am
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 17, 2013, 10:39:04 am
I would have thought they would make a unit that fits in both of the rectangular tubes either end of the hitch cross beam. That way you have a more even loading as there is a lot of weight going on that hitch when unit is just off ground.
John H
I think they are just pushing or pulling the coach. I don't think they are lifting. Of course they would have to release the parking brakes with air or manual intervention.
It would also be challenging to steer the coach with no hydraulic pressure. I tried that once when our steering gear was leaking. It could be done with great effort. My shoulders were sore the next day.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: nlh1250 on January 17, 2013, 12:13:15 pm
Post by: nlh1250 on January 17, 2013, 12:13:15 pm
The coach that broke down in the FT camping area was ours. We had just arrived in Nac.. after a 360 mile drive and after disconnecting the toad, the coach died in the exact best place in the world to have this happen. All fuel lines were replaced and yes they did lift the rear with a fork truck and pushed us into a bay with Alton steering. Then on the return trip, we lost break air pressure 1 mile from a nice RV park. Had to bypass the air dryer and limp into the park, remove the dryer unit, return to FT to have it rebuilt, then replace back on the coach. The interesting thing was each of these problems developed on Fri. afternoons, prior to long holidays, which meant no work was done until the next Wed. Norm H
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: lgshoup on January 17, 2013, 04:02:39 pm
Post by: lgshoup on January 17, 2013, 04:02:39 pm
Next obvious question...how much did the stay at FOT set you back?
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: gam on January 17, 2013, 08:00:23 pm
Post by: gam on January 17, 2013, 08:00:23 pm
has anyone used nylon diesel fuel line tubing for the runs through the bays with rubber hose on the ends ? Gam
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: John Haygarth on January 17, 2013, 10:21:20 pm
Post by: John Haygarth on January 17, 2013, 10:21:20 pm
The Country Coach my friend has here in San Carlos that we are working on has plastic fuel lines, both feed to filters and return and with quick release fittings at ends. He has a leak before filter that we could repair easy. Seems a lot easier to replace too.
John H
John H
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Dick S on January 17, 2013, 11:11:49 pm
Post by: Dick S on January 17, 2013, 11:11:49 pm
I watched FOT replace fuel line in an SOB last year when we were there. It looked like the pex or whatever it's called we have for water lines.No soft covering.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on January 18, 2013, 12:46:42 am
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on January 18, 2013, 12:46:42 am
Here is a quote from a fuel line supplier. Looks like hose with a "B1" marking every 12 inches is the ticket. Note the mention of fire resistance as well as permeation.
Pierce
Quote
"A diesel fuel hose can be used for a number of marine and fuel extraction purposes. To maintain safety and quality standards, diesel fuel hoses are rated for specific applications using a combination of a number and a letter.
The US Coast Guard (USCG) has rated four types of diesel fuel hoses, A1, A2, B1 and B2. According to the USCG recommendations, all marine applications must use the Type B hose at fuel pump and carburetor sections of the fuel line system. A leakage at these sections can cause huge loss of fuel. Also, the Type B diesel hose is fire resistant, minimizing the risk of a fire outbreak. The USCG also recommends the Type 1 hose for critical applications due to their low permeation characteristic. Coast Guard standards require all fuel hoses used for marine applications to bear the mark USCG every 12 inches, while specifying the manufacturing date.
The American Boat & Yacht Council (ABYC) recommends the Type B1 fuel hose for diesel-based applications. The Type A1 hose is the best option for gasoline supply. This hose is less permeable, highly durable, heat resistant and does not collapse under high pressure or vacuum.
Petroleum products have a huge wear and tear effect on fuel hoses. Thus, it is essential to buy high quality hoses to ensure long-term results. However, one should check fuel hoses for cracks, rot or sponginess every quarter. According to the USCG standards, fuel hoses should be wiped with a dry rag and checked for fuel odor.
Rule of Thumb
- Type A: Above Deck
- Type B: Below Deck"
Pierce
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Wattalife54 on January 18, 2013, 09:05:23 am
Post by: Wattalife54 on January 18, 2013, 09:05:23 am
Hi JD,
Do you have a fuel cooler? If not I would consider adding one. The hoses will hold up better without all the excess heat.
Do you have a fuel cooler? If not I would consider adding one. The hoses will hold up better without all the excess heat.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: wolfe10 on January 18, 2013, 09:16:05 am
Post by: wolfe10 on January 18, 2013, 09:16:05 am
Hi JD,
Do you have a fuel cooler? If not I would consider adding one. The hoses will hold up better without all the excess heat.
If it were the fuel return hose that was failing rather than the supply hose that could certainly be a factor, but it is the supply hose that is failing. Of course, if you are doing the labor, replace both!
That said, one of the first things I did was install a fuel cooler in the fuel return. Keep it covered with an easy to attach velcro cover in the winter and doing full cooling duties in the summer. With the diesel tank enclosed, Fortravels are more prone to high fuel temperatures than others.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Wattalife54 on January 18, 2013, 09:30:12 am
Post by: Wattalife54 on January 18, 2013, 09:30:12 am
Brett,
I agree that the return hose would benefit the most. In my case fuel to the engine would get quite hot once the tank level got below 1/2. Obviously it depends whether you have been hitting it hard all day long.
I agree that the return hose would benefit the most. In my case fuel to the engine would get quite hot once the tank level got below 1/2. Obviously it depends whether you have been hitting it hard all day long.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 18, 2013, 10:32:25 am
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 18, 2013, 10:32:25 am
We do not have a fuel cooler. I seldom let the fuel level get below 1/2 tank. It is WAY down right now. I deferred filling because I suspected we might need to pull the tank at FOT.
I've visited with a few people with coaches built around 1997. Many have replaced fuel lines.
We replaced eight air bags yesterday. All have been looking ragged since we bought the coach in 2010. One started leaking in the last few weeks. Sixteen years of service has taken a toll on many of the rubber components.
I've visited with a few people with coaches built around 1997. Many have replaced fuel lines.
We replaced eight air bags yesterday. All have been looking ragged since we bought the coach in 2010. One started leaking in the last few weeks. Sixteen years of service has taken a toll on many of the rubber components.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Wattalife54 on January 18, 2013, 11:12:06 am
Post by: Wattalife54 on January 18, 2013, 11:12:06 am
We changed out our coach and generator hoses about three years ago due to a leak at the tank. Found the generator supply hose fitting was loose.
I installed a fuel cooler after finding out the ECM computer used diesel for cooling while en route to the engine. Foretravel installed coolers on later models.
I started on air bags last year. Changed out the front two drivers side, which looked pretty sad. After cutting them open it was apparent that they were not in immanent danger of failing. I plan on replacing the front passenger bags in the spring.
I installed a fuel cooler after finding out the ECM computer used diesel for cooling while en route to the engine. Foretravel installed coolers on later models.
I started on air bags last year. Changed out the front two drivers side, which looked pretty sad. After cutting them open it was apparent that they were not in immanent danger of failing. I plan on replacing the front passenger bags in the spring.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Chuck Pearson on January 18, 2013, 06:07:00 pm
Post by: Chuck Pearson on January 18, 2013, 06:07:00 pm
Following this thread, knowing it's in the cards for us too. What is the preferred fuel line being used, rubber or nylon?
Chuck
Chuck
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: John S on January 18, 2013, 07:33:32 pm
Post by: John S on January 18, 2013, 07:33:32 pm
This might be my follow up service this fall or maybe next year.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: MemoryRoads on January 18, 2013, 08:37:09 pm
Post by: MemoryRoads on January 18, 2013, 08:37:09 pm
While looking for a FT, I found 1998's commonly had fuel lines that were cracking near fittings
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: John Haygarth on January 18, 2013, 10:37:04 pm
Post by: John Haygarth on January 18, 2013, 10:37:04 pm
I suppose I will have to look at mine in the morning, hope all iswell.
John H
John H
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 18, 2013, 11:27:42 pm
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 18, 2013, 11:27:42 pm
Following this thread, knowing it's in the cards for us too. What is the preferred fuel line being used, rubber or nylon?
If you look carefully at the pictures of the fuel tank that I post earlier in this thread, you can see some of the fuel line. It is the brown tubing. Some is curled up on the floor, and some is hanging near to edge of the opening in the side of the coach. They used several new brass fittings. The new plastic hoses are attached with compression fittings.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on January 19, 2013, 12:21:55 am
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on January 19, 2013, 12:21:55 am
Here is the PDF for the fuel line. HTFL = high temperature fuel line, 8B= 1/2" OD, B= probably diesel. The PDF gives all the specs, including color, material, pressure rating, etc. It's about half way down the page.
Pierce
Pierce
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Chuck Pearson on January 20, 2013, 04:31:47 pm
Post by: Chuck Pearson on January 20, 2013, 04:31:47 pm
Kind of looks like swegded fittings. Anyone know if any easily installed fittings are available?
Note to self, Google first, ask questions second. Here are some field installable fittings. http://www.parker.com/literature/Brass%20Products/Bul.%20DF-01.pdf (http://www.parker.com/literature/Brass%20Products/Bul.%20DF-01.pdf)
Note to self, Google first, ask questions second. Here are some field installable fittings. http://www.parker.com/literature/Brass%20Products/Bul.%20DF-01.pdf (http://www.parker.com/literature/Brass%20Products/Bul.%20DF-01.pdf)
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 20, 2013, 05:51:36 pm
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 20, 2013, 05:51:36 pm
I wasn't watching carefully when they installed the fittings. However, I think they were simple compression fittings. I think they cut the ends of the tube squarely, put on a hex fitting, put on a ring, plugged it together, and tightened the fitting. They did change all the fittings on the tank.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: gam on January 20, 2013, 09:09:30 pm
Post by: gam on January 20, 2013, 09:09:30 pm
Looks like Parflex diesel tubing uses push to connect fittings. Gam
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Chuck Pearson on January 20, 2013, 10:32:37 pm
Post by: Chuck Pearson on January 20, 2013, 10:32:37 pm
Hard getting info on the Parflex lines and fittings. I think the push to connect fittings use a hydraulic pusher. Some of the stuff uses the quick style field fittings, it's just not real clear which. Since the quick fittings seal under pressure I wonder how they would work on a suction line.
Sounds like the stuff they used on J.D.'s coach is some pretty primo fuel line. I'll bet fuel line restriction is greatly reduced using this stuff. Looks like they want to keep it out of the engine room so normally transitions to standard line in high heat areas.
Sounds like the stuff they used on J.D.'s coach is some pretty primo fuel line. I'll bet fuel line restriction is greatly reduced using this stuff. Looks like they want to keep it out of the engine room so normally transitions to standard line in high heat areas.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on January 20, 2013, 10:50:04 pm
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on January 20, 2013, 10:50:04 pm
A quick call to a Paraflex dealer can tell you if any tools are needed to install the fittings. I would not get off the phone until I had a good answer. Any hydraulic shop can also install fittings at a nominal cost.
The Detroit Diesel 2 cycles have all the engine fuel lines inside the cylinder head casting so the returning fuel is HOT. After a day's driving, I can't touch the fuel tank especially if the tank is low.
Pierce
The Detroit Diesel 2 cycles have all the engine fuel lines inside the cylinder head casting so the returning fuel is HOT. After a day's driving, I can't touch the fuel tank especially if the tank is low.
Pierce
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: gam on January 21, 2013, 09:20:42 am
Post by: gam on January 21, 2013, 09:20:42 am
What I.D. are the fuel lines? Gam
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on January 21, 2013, 10:19:09 am
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on January 21, 2013, 10:19:09 am
.376" inside diameter or 9.55mm
Pierce
Pierce
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: PatC on January 21, 2013, 11:07:51 am
Post by: PatC on January 21, 2013, 11:07:51 am
Parflex Division - Parker (http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.223a4a3cce02eb6315731910237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=e27dedff4675e210VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=EN)
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 21, 2013, 08:27:31 pm
Post by: J. D. Stevens on January 21, 2013, 08:27:31 pm
What I.D. are the fuel lines? Gam
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on January 29, 2013, 09:31:44 am
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on January 29, 2013, 09:31:44 am
Pierce,
I went ahead and purchased 100' of the Parflex .5" line. When installing it, found that is is used for air systems also, marked on the line, says air service, does not say diesel fuel. Upon further detective snooping, I found the air line I have been using for diesel fuel for years is also rated for Diesel Fuel and much less cost. The Parlfex was $198.00 for the 100' roll. (Non stocked item)
Just fur your info.
Thanks again, we keep learning !
Dave M
I went ahead and purchased 100' of the Parflex .5" line. When installing it, found that is is used for air systems also, marked on the line, says air service, does not say diesel fuel. Upon further detective snooping, I found the air line I have been using for diesel fuel for years is also rated for Diesel Fuel and much less cost. The Parlfex was $198.00 for the 100' roll. (Non stocked item)
Just fur your info.
Thanks again, we keep learning !
Dave M
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: wolfe10 on January 29, 2013, 09:36:22 am
Post by: wolfe10 on January 29, 2013, 09:36:22 am
Dave,
What kind of end fittings did you use on the new line?
What kind of end fittings did you use on the new line?
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on January 29, 2013, 09:44:08 am
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on January 29, 2013, 09:44:08 am
The same as used on air lines, brass farrel with stainless insert.
Dave M
Dave M
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: rsihnhold on January 15, 2014, 12:50:43 pm
Post by: rsihnhold on January 15, 2014, 12:50:43 pm
Getting ready to tackle this but I am wondering if someone who has completed this job can answer whether the fittings on top of the fuel tank are threaded female 1/2" for both main engine and return along with 3/8" for generator and return?
And is this job as easy as ordering a few of the 90deg Parker NTA fittings and running the new lines to the primary fuel filters on both engine and gen, other than the labor of course?
And is this job as easy as ordering a few of the 90deg Parker NTA fittings and running the new lines to the primary fuel filters on both engine and gen, other than the labor of course?
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: John S on January 15, 2014, 03:50:20 pm
Post by: John S on January 15, 2014, 03:50:20 pm
Can't tell you that but do know it took 1.5 days with three men. Looked at mine when I got here and they needed to be changed out.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: rsihnhold on February 20, 2014, 05:48:50 pm
Post by: rsihnhold on February 20, 2014, 05:48:50 pm
Just to keep this information in one spot for anybody thinking about doing it themselves, all the ports on the top of the fuel tank for both supply and return are 1/2" NPT female connections with a 90 degree male NPT to flare fitting installed.
The supply for the Cummins has a 5/8" flare connection on it with the Aeroquip 2556-10 hose and all others are a 3/8" (flare 37 degrees) or -6AN flare fitting with Aeroquip 2556-6 hose. Connections at the primary and secondary fuel filters were also 5/8" flare.
I find it interesting that on J.D.'s coach that FT replaced the 2556-10 hose (0.63" or 5/8" inside diameter) with the Parker HTFL 10B hose which is less than 1/2" ID at 0.441".
While some parts of the hose look fine, other areas have visible diesel permeation and plenty of cracking. The worst offender is the line between the primary and secondary fuel filters on the Cummins, the return fuel line, and pretty much everything on top of the fuel tank. Everything that was enclosed in the ducting and protected (barring the fuel tank area) shows no signs of permeation.
The supply for the Cummins has a 5/8" flare connection on it with the Aeroquip 2556-10 hose and all others are a 3/8" (flare 37 degrees) or -6AN flare fitting with Aeroquip 2556-6 hose. Connections at the primary and secondary fuel filters were also 5/8" flare.
I find it interesting that on J.D.'s coach that FT replaced the 2556-10 hose (0.63" or 5/8" inside diameter) with the Parker HTFL 10B hose which is less than 1/2" ID at 0.441".
While some parts of the hose look fine, other areas have visible diesel permeation and plenty of cracking. The worst offender is the line between the primary and secondary fuel filters on the Cummins, the return fuel line, and pretty much everything on top of the fuel tank. Everything that was enclosed in the ducting and protected (barring the fuel tank area) shows no signs of permeation.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on February 20, 2014, 06:47:28 pm
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on February 20, 2014, 06:47:28 pm
The fittings listed on Pierce's page look like the push on and can be removed/reused, have used many of them, but due to cost difference I prefer the standard brass Farrell with stainless insert. These can be reused also, just need a new Farrell.
I will run the larger size lines to the ISM.
I will run the larger size lines to the ISM.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Chuck Pearson on February 20, 2014, 07:31:19 pm
Post by: Chuck Pearson on February 20, 2014, 07:31:19 pm
Just to keep this information in one spot for anybody thinking about doing it themselves, all the ports on the top of the fuel tank for both supply and return are 1/2" NPT female connections with a 90 degree male NPT to flare fitting installed.
The supply for the Cummins has a 5/8" flare connection on it with the Aeroquip 2556-10 hose and all others are a 3/8" (flare 37 degrees) or -6AN flare fitting with Aeroquip 2556-6 hose. Connections at the primary and secondary fuel filters were also 5/8" flare.
I find it interesting that on J.D.'s coach that FT replaced the 2556-10 hose (0.63" or 5/8" inside diameter) with the Parker HTFL 10B hose which is less than 1/2" ID at 0.441".
While some parts of the hose look fine, other areas have visible diesel permeation and plenty of cracking. The worst offender is the line between the primary and secondary fuel filters on the Cummins, the return fuel line, and pretty much everything on top of the fuel tank. Everything that was enclosed in the ducting and protected (barring the fuel tank area) shows no signs of permeation.
Thanks for this info! I've been working to source these parts with little success so far as it seems that Parker dealers don't actually stock, or are unfamiliar with these products, in S. Tx. at least. I do have a question, though, regarding line size.
It sounds like the 1/2" NPT fittings at the tank are a choke point for the 5/8" I.D. hose. The 1/2" NPT fittings are pipe size, right, so half inch inside dia? Do you see any advantage in reducing the size of the return line from engine from 5/8 to 1/2?
If anyone else is interested, and we can find a quantity price on the thermoplastic line I'll be happy to buy, divvy up and ship if we can save a few bucks.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: rsihnhold on February 20, 2014, 08:01:55 pm
Post by: rsihnhold on February 20, 2014, 08:01:55 pm
Thanks for this info! I've been working to source these parts with little success so far as it seems that Parker dealers don't actually stock, or are unfamiliar with these products, in S. Tx. at least. I do have a question, though, regarding line size.
It sounds like the 1/2" NPT fittings at the tank are a choke point for the 5/8" I.D. hose. The 1/2" NPT fittings are pipe size, right, so half inch inside dia? Do you see any advantage in reducing the size of the return line from engine from 5/8 to 1/2?
If anyone else is interested, and we can find a quantity price on the thermoplastic line I'll be happy to buy, divvy up and ship if we can save a few bucks.
I did quite a bit of research on this before getting my fuel lines and here is the best descriptions I found.
Understanding Fuel Line Sizes vs. Fuel Supply Restriction (http://www.sbmar.com/articles/understanding_fuel_line_sizes_vs._fuel_supply_restriction/)
Technical Article Number One- The Cummins Lift Pump (http://torkteknology.com/news.php?newsid=5)
Technical Article Number Two - The Diesel Fuel System and Inlet Line (http://www.torkteknology.com/news/7/Technical-Article-Number-Two-%252d-The-Diesel-Fuel-System-and-Inlet-Line.html)
This site has some other interesting articles and descriptions of how they do things. Good reading anyway.
Marine Fuel Filtration - ?The Seaboard Way? (http://www.sbmar.com/articles/marine_fuel_filtration_-_the_seaboard_way)
SMX Multi-Stage Fuel Fueltration? Installation Examples (http://www.sbmar.com/smx-fueltration-installation-examples.php)
I ended up using Trident 365 A1-15 for my lines since I couldn't find anyone willing to sell less than full reel quantities to me and I could get it in 50' boxes for about $2 a foot. The HTFL line can be had for around $2 per foot if you buy a whole reel and are willing to special order it. Foretravel was willing to ship whatever quantities I wanted but were charging over $6 a foot for the larger lines. The HTFL line seems like the best way to do it though.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Chuck Pearson on February 20, 2014, 10:53:51 pm
Post by: Chuck Pearson on February 20, 2014, 10:53:51 pm
Some good reading there. Interestingly enough I spoke with Tony (the guy who wrote the filtration series) a few days ago about a boat repower. Great info.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: John Haygarth on February 21, 2014, 12:06:16 am
Post by: John Haygarth on February 21, 2014, 12:06:16 am
While on this subject of "cracking Hose lines" I looked at the ones to Generator while I had the gen pulled out some to get to that slide stepe cylinder and noted some small ones on those lines. I decided to wrap the last 6" of lines with a few layers of the Silicon "Rescue Tape" that is very good. It binds well together as it goes on so I do not think I will have any air leaks at those points. The rest of line I could see was good.
Should mine give a problem I will be running them in pvc Tubing under the coach so I do not have to pull them thru race ways etc. I can do that from my Pit, and do not see a problem with doing it that way either in Sch 40 pipe
JohnH
Should mine give a problem I will be running them in pvc Tubing under the coach so I do not have to pull them thru race ways etc. I can do that from my Pit, and do not see a problem with doing it that way either in Sch 40 pipe
JohnH
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Bill Chaplin on February 21, 2014, 08:05:11 am
Post by: Bill Chaplin on February 21, 2014, 08:05:11 am
DAM----- wish I had a pit !!!!
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: John Duld on February 21, 2014, 09:45:18 am
Post by: John Duld on February 21, 2014, 09:45:18 am
Has anyone replaced the heater hoses when replacing the fuel lines?
I think they all run together through the coach.
I think they all run together through the coach.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: prfleming on February 21, 2014, 10:03:34 am
Post by: prfleming on February 21, 2014, 10:03:34 am
On our '91 I'm sure the fuel lines are original and this thread got me thinking. I didn't see a reply on the cost to have FOT do the replacement...can someone prepare me for what we might be in for please...you can put it in terms of "coach bucks" ;)
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: John Haygarth on February 21, 2014, 10:56:24 am
Post by: John Haygarth on February 21, 2014, 10:56:24 am
Peter, I could be wrong but seem to remember someone saying that the older GVs do not have the same type of lines and do not break up like the later models. Sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
JohnH
JohnH
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: Don & Tys on February 21, 2014, 11:21:20 am
Post by: Don & Tys on February 21, 2014, 11:21:20 am
Good info! I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the plastic lines likely have less internal friction to the passage of fuel and therefore a somewhat smaller diameter may be required with the old style. They told me that this is the same line they use on the IH45's (ISX's). I took that to mean the same diameter, but I could be wrong about that to... ::)
Don
Don
Just to keep this information in one spot for anybody thinking about doing it themselves, all the ports on the top of the fuel tank for both supply and return are 1/2" NPT female connections with a 90 degree male NPT to flare fitting installed.
The supply for the Cummins has a 5/8" flare connection on it with the Aeroquip 2556-10 hose and all others are a 3/8" (flare 37 degrees) or -6AN flare fitting with Aeroquip 2556-6 hose. Connections at the primary and secondary fuel filters were also 5/8" flare.
I find it interesting that on J.D.'s coach that FT replaced the 2556-10 hose (0.63" or 5/8" inside diameter) with the Parker HTFL 10B hose which is less than 1/2" ID at 0.441".
While some parts of the hose look fine, other areas have visible diesel permeation and plenty of cracking. The worst offender is the line between the primary and secondary fuel filters on the Cummins, the return fuel line, and pretty much everything on top of the fuel tank. Everything that was enclosed in the ducting and protected (barring the fuel tank area) shows no signs of permeation.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: JohnFitz on February 21, 2014, 11:23:58 am
Post by: JohnFitz on February 21, 2014, 11:23:58 am
Peter, I could be wrong but seem to remember someone saying that the older GVs do not have the same type of lines and do not break up like the later models. Sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
JohnH
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: J. D. Stevens on February 21, 2014, 09:55:56 pm
Post by: J. D. Stevens on February 21, 2014, 09:55:56 pm
On our '91 I'm sure the fuel lines are original and this thread got me thinking. I didn't see a reply on the cost to have FOT do the replacement...can someone prepare me for what we might be in for please...you can put it in terms of "coach bucks" ;)
As others have reported, this issue seems to be showing up in models built in the later '90s. Ours is a 1997. First symptom for us was that the generator would not run. It would start after filter was purged of air, but would immediately shut down and filter would again have air in it.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: John S on February 22, 2014, 06:27:50 am
Post by: John S on February 22, 2014, 06:27:50 am
Mine was 3100 at FT to replace all the lines. It was 22 hours of labor and parts and tax. I have the metal beam in the drivers side so the could only work from one side. It took two days with three people and probably a lot more than 22 man hours.
Title: Re: Old Fuel Lines
Post by: rsihnhold on March 01, 2014, 06:46:58 pm
Post by: rsihnhold on March 01, 2014, 06:46:58 pm
I have finished the project and it wasn't for the faint of heart.
I removed the propane tank and thought that I would be able to get at the center of tank connections for generator and engine supply. I could see them but there were so many other hoses/etc. that ran through the access slot that I just couldn't get enough access to get them off or put the new fittings back on.
I was really, really hoping I could get it done without removing the fuel tank but it didn't work out that way. I drained the 60 gallons of fuel into 2 plastic barrels I had and pulled it out. The empty fuel tank is surprisingly light but do be aware that there is a drain plug on the bottom drivers side which will prevent you from being able to push the tank straight out until it has been lifted a bit. Don't ask me how long it took to figure out what was holding everything up. :-( The curb side fill spout will also catch on pretty much every hose and wire loom as you try to push it out.
Here are the barbed connectors that I used with the Trident 365 hose. They haven't leaked at all and fit nicely into the hose. Just dip the end of the hose into hot water for 30 seconds prior to pushing the barb in.
Anderson Metals Brass Push-On Swivel Hose Fitting, Connector, Barb x Dual Seat (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0070TWKO8/ref=biss_dp_sa2)
My engine supply hose was extremely cracked and deformed at the tank connection. It had been visibly leaking which you could see with the tank removed. There was a film of diesel all over the top of the tank near the supply connections. This was not something you could see until the tank was removed.
The engine runs noticeably smoother after changing out the fuel hoses, as does the generator.
I removed the propane tank and thought that I would be able to get at the center of tank connections for generator and engine supply. I could see them but there were so many other hoses/etc. that ran through the access slot that I just couldn't get enough access to get them off or put the new fittings back on.
I was really, really hoping I could get it done without removing the fuel tank but it didn't work out that way. I drained the 60 gallons of fuel into 2 plastic barrels I had and pulled it out. The empty fuel tank is surprisingly light but do be aware that there is a drain plug on the bottom drivers side which will prevent you from being able to push the tank straight out until it has been lifted a bit. Don't ask me how long it took to figure out what was holding everything up. :-( The curb side fill spout will also catch on pretty much every hose and wire loom as you try to push it out.
Here are the barbed connectors that I used with the Trident 365 hose. They haven't leaked at all and fit nicely into the hose. Just dip the end of the hose into hot water for 30 seconds prior to pushing the barb in.
Anderson Metals Brass Push-On Swivel Hose Fitting, Connector, Barb x Dual Seat (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0070TWKO8/ref=biss_dp_sa2)
My engine supply hose was extremely cracked and deformed at the tank connection. It had been visibly leaking which you could see with the tank removed. There was a film of diesel all over the top of the tank near the supply connections. This was not something you could see until the tank was removed.
The engine runs noticeably smoother after changing out the fuel hoses, as does the generator.