Our Powertech 8kwh generator has short moments of putting out 166 volts instead of 120 volts. Most of the time it is running ok.
Our generator is wired for 120 volt not 240 volts, so both legs from generator are connected together behind both 35 amp generator breakers.
Obviously something is failing. Does the 166 voltage reading indicate a ground problem, loose wire. etc.
I think the 166 volt reading is telling us something.
We are at the Quartzsite Lemon rally and out generator is needed for the next 11 days.
Barry,
Have you verified that this IS a true voltage fluctuation issue vs gauge issue? Do incandescent lights get a LOT brighter when voltage spikes up?
Brett
Barry
Give Powertech a call, see what they suggest.
I purchased a new voltage regulator from Power Tech to arrive tomorrow.
Thanks for your diagnosis.
Just fixing to post I have one and have no need for it....Looks like I'm 2 late
Hope the reg fixes it for you.
RE: Just fixing to post I have one and have no need for it....
Thanks for your offer. We have one flying in from Florida to two hours away in Phoenix tomorrow. So we figure we will not need your kind offer.
How is it you have a one you don't need?
We did learn there are two different voltage regulators that looks alike. One is for generators with brushes, which have a brush access door at center end of gen. Another volt regulator for gen that are excited. Ours has the brush access door.
Our gen has been running perfectly at 120 volts for 4 hours tonight without a fault, so the problem is not consistent.
Mine is brushless.. The story with mine is it just stopped making power (with only 78 hours) on a hot hot Texas day.
I called Powertech in Fl and they sold me up on the reg was bad so 200 bucks and shipped to me the next day. Installed the reg and had bad power swings.It would swing from 100v to 150v so I took it to a Powertech dealer, they pulled the gen and sold me up on a diode/reinstalled with no power at all. They tried all kinds of stuff to bring it back to life but nothing worked..In the end Powertech told me my head was dead and needed a complete new gen head at a cost of 2,500 bucks. The new head came with a new reg so that's why I have a extra one
We installed a new voltage regulator today and everything seems to be running ok.
PowerTech part # 06REG21, voltage regulator model 2.1 Brush 120, 720-VR2-1, $215.
Regulator is screwed down to bottom of control box had has one 6-wire plug. No adjustments are needed.
This problem is behind us and we thank everyone who made suggestions and offered help. Now it is time to enjoy a week in the Quartzsite desert with the Lemon's and a whole lot of interesting RVers.
Pictures of voltage regulator have been added to my previous posting about model # & price.
Dave Katsuki made a good comment on the different ways we protect our coach from problematic high voltages like the ones we just experienced from our failing generator voltage regulator.
We have the Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C over/under/surge voltage protection device (EMS-HW50C (http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems_hw50c.htm)). Many RVers use an EMS.
EMS can be installed several different ways which is the reason for this posting: External pedestal plugin, hard-wired to before transfer switch & hard-wired after transfer switch, each have their own pros & cons.
Only hard-wiring after transfer switch, protects the coach from generator voltage problems like we experienced. If our EMS had been installed any other way, we may have fried our electronics from the 166 volts from our generator.
We mounted our EMS-HW50C's remote display panel next to our other volt meters so it is readily visible. And when the EMS relay opened to protect the coach, the remote panel continued to display the incoming high 166 voltage reading. This high voltage only lasted for less than a minute, so if we had not had the panel visible, we would have not been aware of what our generator was doing.
Barry, I appreciate your info on the Progressive Ind. EMS-HW50C unit, also see it is available from Camping World for $378.
Glad the volt reg solved your generator issue.
Cheers
Dave M
Good deal, sounds like you guys dodged a bullet on that one. I just installed the hardwired Progressive unit, hardwired after transfer switch. It fit very nicely into the false compartment in front of engine, mounted over the transfer switch. Easy install, protected from weather and surges from any source.
Our EMS is installed in the exact same place as Chuck's. We used a loop of #6 cable to the EMS so it can be swung out of the way to work on transfer switch.
$333 (currently) from RVUpgradestore (where we bought ours)
Progressive Energy Management System 240Volt / 50Amp Hardwired w/ Remote Display (http://www.rvupgradestore.com/Progressive-Energy-Management-System-240Volt-50amp-p/emshw50c.htm)
Michelle
I was told that it would require 2 EMS's to protect from shorepower and gen power anomolies. EMS would have to be added to each circuit . jc
Not so. Check your wiring block diagram and you will see it only takes one.
Great minds think alike. I did the same.
I currently have my EMS installed in front of the transfer switch to protect from shore power glitches, and am now planning to move it inboard of the transfer switch to protect from generator spikes as well as shore power anomalies, but strictly speaking, to protect your transfer switch from 220V coming in where 120 is expected, you do need another EMS in front.
Got personal experience with blowing the transfer switch that way, since early on, I plugged the rig into a rewired "30 amp" connection at a friend's house and discovered too late that it was wired for 220V appliances. Blew the coil on one of the contactors in the transfer switch, and I had to replace it. Don't know how common that wiring glitch is, but when I move the EMS behind the transfer switch, I will be extra careful about metering the shore power before connecting.
On the other other hand, it would be lots cheaper to replace the transfer switch than potentially nail all of the other AC equipment in your rig from a generator spike...
Another source, I bought mine here.
http://tweetys.com/search.aspx?find=ems (http://tweetys.com/search.aspx?find=ems)
$299 + shipping
I think this one does not come with the Extra Digital Remote Display $78.96 like the RVUpgradestore does
Barry,
You are right. The one with the remote display is 350.00 from tweetys. Thanks for correcting that info.
Rick
Since our EMS does not protect transfer switch from a broken pedestal plug, we use the familiar home-made tester that has a 50-amp male plug at one end of a regular cord cut from a #12 extension cord, and 15 amp outlets at the other end with polarity & volt meters. We always check campground and friend's house outlets before plugging motorhome in.
I have heard of pedestal problems that destroy transfer switches in such a way that the generator is also damaged by back feeding from destroyed transfer switch. If the pedestal problem is transient, we could be at risk. While a transfer switch is not a major problem if damaged, the generator is. Maybe I need two EMS protections?
Barry, Where did you mount the digital display module, I am thinking under the rear TV and light switch area ?
Also, Michelle shows the price that includes the remote display, so feel that is better value for me.
Thanks
Dave M
Have to admit, I hadn't considered protection for the transfer switch itself. Seems like the genset would be protected by the open contactor. Hard to imagine the scenario that would cause the phase relationships of a hard wired pedestal to change. Of course its also hard to imagine the dynamics of a train wreck and they do happen.
EMS-HW50C includes a remote panel. Control box does not have a display.
EMS-HW50C (http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems_hw50c.htm)
Our 36' motorhome has a curb side kitchen table with a pantry cabinet, hallway closet & bedroom drawers all connected. The cabinet above the table has our Prosine control panel, solar panel, LinkPro meters and this is the place we mounted our EMS remote.
We ran a meter cable under the carpet between the bed and the bedroom drawers, then across the connected cabinets.
Anywhere the meter panel can easily been looked at is ok. We may look at our meter several times a day to be sure we are not overloading our generator 35 amp legs, and when on 30 amp shore power when turning on an appliance. We may turn off a space heater or hot water tank to run microwave, etc, so for us keeping it near other meters is important. We know the loads on each power leg.
Besides being a voltage safety device, our EMS is our only volt meter when on generator or shore power and we use the volt meters a lot.
SO, has there been any more thought as to best place to hook up EMS since the last posting. Before, in the middle or after Transfer switches?? It will be one of my next fixes so nice to get it right!
John H
I don't know about consensus, but I was talking to the progressive systems representative at the booth at the Quartzsite show, and I asked him that very question. He said that the only place they will install them is on the input side of the equation (where shore power enters the coach). He stated that in 14 years of doing this he had only heard of one problem where the generator caused issues. I was all set to put it after the transfer switch, but now I am thinking I will just put it on the shore power side. That would definitely be the easiest installation, but I'm still open to change my mind...
Don
That's where I have mine installed and it was a much easier installation than it would have been on the genset side (at least on our coach). Steve & Michelle gave me some good guidence on the placement although I believe theirs is on the genset side. I have a feeling that replacing the transfer switch might be an expensive proposition so that's the way we went.
If I remember correctly the installation instructions do show options for both.
Dean
Don,
As you said, installing the EMS before the transfer switch would be the easiest approach; however inasmuch as I have already had an occasional generator glitch, I wanted my appliances to be protected from high/low voltage fluctuations while on either generator or shore power. Therefore, I installed my Progressive in between the transfer switch and the main breaker box, in fact just adjacent to the breaker box at the foot of the bed. It made it easy to place the remote LED. If I can find pics I took during installation, I'll post one.
Ours is installed after the transfer switch, to protect against both shore and genset issues. Since we had a generator issue in 2010 we wanted to protect against anomalies there.
Michelle
I also asked the Quartzsite booth guy and he told me the same thing. Except he is out of touch on his reasoning because here in Quartzsite Lemon Rally with 50+ coaches, there are two Foretravels with PowerTech generators putting out 166 volts and 144 volts. I would say he is not informed.
That said it looks like if we want to protect against high generator voltage the EMS must be installed between generator & transfer switch or between transfer switch & main breaker panel.
And if want to protect against shore power problems hurting our coach electronics, we need to install the EMS between shore power cable & transfer switch or between transfer switch & main breaker panel.
And if we want to protect against shore power problems that can back-feed to generator and damage generator, EMS must be installed between shore power cable & transfer switch.
It seems to me that it is all personal choice as no one solution will cover all three issues, so there is no one correct answer. I am considering in spending another $330 to install a second EMS between shore & transfer switch as it seems like good insurance. We currently have our EMS between transfer switch and main breaker and it just saved our coach from problems from our generator's 166 volts, which is my first choice location based upon personal experience. We do check volts & polarity before plugging in so we will catch a pedestal with a consistent problem.
so as I never use the genset I can go between the transfer and breakers OR put it in front after shore power. I think I will do it before circuit breakers.
John H
Just bought a second EMS to install after the transfer switch. Don't want to be somewhere and have the transfer switch fried, and also don't want to have all the inboard equipment fried by a generator glitch, so the two EMS solution seems right for us. I will move the inside display to the one after the transfer switch and put the display for the shore-side one at the foot of the bed, or maybe eventually in the utility bay.
Can't wait to start wrestling with that 6Ga wire again... :))
John if you never or seldom use the genset then why not put it in on the incoming shore power side to protect the transfer switch as well as the coach electronics?
Dean
Hmmm must have read Barry's post wrong as I thought that would have been the best place for it(before breakers)???
John H
Is there a spec sheet for this device ? Would be interesting to know at what voltage it accepts and what voltage it rejects in addition what is the time delay to act.
Prefer 108-132 VAC and instant disconnect, not 2 seconds later, same on frequency 57-63 Htz range.
Dave M
Dave,
Here's some of that info, including a direct answer on voltage cut-out from the head of Progressive Industries (not Neal, the guy he quotes in his post).
Surge Guards (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=12964.0)
"Can't wait to start wrestling with that 6Ga wire again... "
Use Mechanix work gloves. It's saved me from myself many times. These are available at most any big box store.
Good idea! I use a real thin pair for lots of mechanical work. Hadn't thought to use them for electrical work (and I don't often have to deal with 6 Ga, thankfully...)
Nancy will be glad to know they come in pink ;) (I have them - they were a Christmas present from Steve a couple of years ago) Mechanix Wear MG-72-530 Womens Glove Pink Camo Large - Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Mechanix-Wear-MG-72-530-Womens-Glove/dp/B000R7LZGO)
Michelle
Yep, she doesn't have any - yet... That's probably why she didn't offer to help with the EMS install :))
My wife looks at my crazy projects and... has no intention of buying any gloves, pink or otherwise. Her picture is in the dictionary under "a mixed blessing". I should be getting out of intensive care in about a week.
Finished installing the inboard Progressive EMS (after the transfer switch). Wrestling match with 6ga wire was not as much fun as expected (and I won.)
Still have to pull the cable for the new display panel and mount it.