Foretravel Owners' Forum

Well, not exactly 'stepping the mast' (vertical), more like carrying it (horizontal) on the roof.

Main Problem: Transporting my 22' Person Ensign to the UP of Michigan this summer.

First subproblem: The boat weighs ~3,000 lbs, the trailer another 1,700.
      Decision: I have decided that my 2007 Jeep Liberty is too light to tow the close to 5,000 lbs. 
                    Thus drive the jeep and tow the boat with the coach.

Which brings up the second problem: The mast is 33 ft long. The trailer is 23 ft. long.
                    If I were towing the boat with a larger vehicle, the mast would be centered on the boat
                    and it could overhang the tow vehicle in the front of the trailer (It would be above the roof of
                    the towing vehicle by a foot or two).
                 
            Thus: Towing the boat and mast behind the coach (top of which is 5+ feet higher than the boat)
                      means that the mast will be close to the back of the coach and overhang the rear of the boat by
                      something like 6-7 feet. Texas gives me 4 feet. Not too much of a stretch :headwall:
                      Except that 4' ft is from the end of the trailer. If you look at the picture
                          Ensign695-2 (http://www.loopcruiser.com/Pictures/Ensign695/)
                      you'll see that that is where the stern of the boat is. Which gives me an over hang of 10-11 ' .
            And I begin to  have visions of a right turn on a two lane road.

But, lets add it up... 36' for coach, 33' for mast plus a little for space between the back of the coach and the start of the mast... say 70' total.    Texas gives me 65'.  Not too bad,,,  Unless/until I have to visit with the trooper. :whistle:

It would PROBABLY fly b^.^d



Alternative Solution (and the reason for this missive): Put the mast on the roof of the coach :dance:

I will need 33'  of straight space. I can make footings if I have to raise the mast above the obstructions (vents, fans, etc,). The question is, how do I install tie-downs to secure it to the roof.

I know some of you have solar panels on the roof.  ( I watched Barry and Cindy in the FOT parking lot in 95-100 heat. I was afraid they would keel over).
 
How are the stringers aligned?
Are they easily findable?
Procedure for water proofing?

Do you have any suggestions (other than get a bigger toad?
The coach is 40 miles down the road, I'll get over there soon and climb up to see what I have to work with.

thanks in advance

I believe that all the framing in the roof is square aluminum tubing.  You can probably find it with an inexpensive electronic stud finder.  Sometimes you can see where the framing is when there is the right amount of dew on the roof.  Boat shoes needed to walk on a wet roof.  If you think you need to install tie downs, best to fasten it to the framing.  Seems like some padding under the mast and tied to the AC units might hold it in place, if you don't hit any big bumps at a high speed. I have put some long things in the coach by raising the bed and feeding it in through the engine compartment, but a 33' mast might be iffy. 

Can you use a longer crutch at the fore end, raising that end of the mast above the roofline of the coach?  If it sticks up too high, you could also raise the aft end crutch.

You also might be able to make a cradle for the mast along one side or the other of the coach. I believe you are limited to four inches of protrusion on the driver side, which might be a close fit.

I'd go for the roof carry.  As far as tie downs you could put pads of plastic down, secured with VHB tape (not the hardware store stuff, the 3m industrial.  Could cut slots in pads to feed your tie down straps through before sticking them down.  When you're ready to remove them you can do it by "sawing" the tape with a piece of wire.  Residue will remove with solvents.  No holes thru roof and no worries.  Guess I sound like a salesman for VHB tape but I've found it amazing stuff.  It's what holds the slanted exterior glass facade of the new Dubai hi rise hotel on. 

Chuck

Forget about putting a 33' mast through the engine compartment on a 36' coach, won't fit.  I just remembered that under the fiberglass skin there is some plywood either 1/4 or 3/8 most likely 1/4.  You might be able to see it by removing the inside AC cover and looking up.  So any part of the roof should hold sheet metal or wood screws, but into the framing is best.  Most of the framing runs across the coach, any fore and aft pieces are short such as at the AC units and the fluorescent ceiling lights.

Roof should be no issue-- the stick is long, but weight is not an issue.  If you need to block it up to clear a solar panel or other "short" obstacle, no problem..

BTW, had an Ensign and a Pearson Wanderer (30') before going into Pacific Seacrafts.

And, on a lighter note, if the stick was 40' and stuck over the front of the coach, you could tell everyone you were entered in a "Coach Jousting Contest".

A couple of ideas, out of the blue, and out side the box maybe.

As Brett mentioned, it is the the length, not the weight. 

I know that some airlines have carried long masts, on freighters, by sliding the mast thru the pilots window.  Sitting here now in my coach, I think that I just could maybe slide your mast thru my driver's side window, into the coach, down the hall to lay on the bed for the trip.  Guess I need to grab a long pole out of the boat house and test load tomorrow morning to see what angle is forced by the window opening.  Your success might depend on your interior layout, and how far forward your first bulkhead is located on your floor plan.  You might be able to come in high on the front door, and stab the mast into the coach, guiding it in?

A second thought is could you maybe hang the mast on the driver's side, from the mirror, and then from a line dropped down from the rear rack?  Boat mast are always carried hanging off the trailer rigging on semi trailers, from the factory to the dealer.  You could need to pad of course, and you can grab the mast at any window opening with a soft tie strap, leaving the window very slightly open.  Tape could be used to silence the wind noise.

A third thought is do like you can take home steel from the supplier with a pickup.  Try hanging the mast under the coach.  I have looked and I might just have enough clearance to do that as a plan C.

Laying the mast on the roof should not be any problem, just find the straight line to match the mast, put it on pads, and secure it to the many things that are on the roof.  I would think that some of the existing fasteners could be used as tie points.

When we have ever traveled with masts, we are careful to pull all the halyards to the blocks, then pad the shackles, to protect the mast finish, then gather the coiled halyards together.  We then shrink wrap the entire mast to keep everything tight and clean.  When we arrive, we carefully run a knife down the main sail track and the dirty wrap falls away. I have done countless number of masts from dinghies to 40'er's and love arriving with all the dirt on the wrap, not on the mast or in the many halyards, or the standing rigging that we did not fully remove.

I know that some very long mast have been delivered on tall uprights that tower above the tow vehicle.  You might not want to build such a rig, but your mast is really light compared to 50-80' sticks that travel.

Try hanging the mast under the coach.  I have looked and I might just have enough clearance to do that as a plan C.


As crazy as that may sound, I like that idea...

I believe the simplest solution is to extend the forward mast crutch so the mast extends over the top of your coach.

We always had extended front mast supports, but the problem might be in getting too tall to be legal by the time you clear the almost 11' rear of the coach, with the ever increasing height of the front of the load.  I know my short coach is 10'8 to the top of the highest object, the rear cap, maybe 12" less, except for the ladder, which becomes a problem with turning.  The other slight issue might be a dip in the roadway, into or out of a parking lot, that might allow the hitch to drop and the mast to touch the top.

We once sent a mast to a lake and the guys missed a sign height, and hit the top 1" of the mast crane.  It was a new bow pulpit, and some clever metal working to repair and brand new mast and boat.  Had the mast been hung under the pulpit, they would have made it.

The reason I suggested extending the forward mast crutch is that the Pearson, having a full keel, already sits rather high on the trailer, so the aft mast crutch is already pretty high up. This means raising that end enough to clear the coach won't result in it being too high over the top.  You would also want to slide the mast as far aft as legally allowed, probably four feet past the trailer lights.

By the way, I wish I had your problem.  I haven't owned a sailboat in forty years.

Rube Goldberg suggestion here:

What about coming off the side of the hitch frame with a welded 2" sq tubing extension to the driver's side, providing a "pocket" for the mast support weldment? The mast support weldments (front & rear) would cradle the mast just enough to clear the coach.

Do a similar mount toward the front where the mast would be supported, but off the frame. Oops, frame? Somewhere?

Advantages: Mast supports easily removeable when not needed. Easily installed when needed. NO climbing up on the roof and trying to manipulate a large, bulky item requiring two bodies to move. Less chance of damaging the coach and components.

I appreciate all the suggestions!!

I really did like the VHB tape idea but when I asked 3M  which tape (there are many) they said 
"Thank you for contacting 3M, the innovation company.  I checked with our laboratory, and unfortunately, we are not able to make a product suggestion for your application.  There are too many variables on your fiberglass roof (texture, oxidation, etc.) for us to know if any of our tapes will be successful."
I'll get out to the coach tomorrow but I think I have a path.
 () On the roof
 () tie to the luggage rack in the back
 () use one (or two) ratchet straps all around the circumference of the coach in the front.

This assumes I can find flat space around air conditioners, vents, Sat TV dish, spot lights, radio antennae and whatever else is up there. I can use the mast puller hoist at the yacht club to suspend the mast as I move it around above the coach. I will probably have to put on my sailing safety harness before I'm allowed on the roof. :D

I'll keep you informed and post a picture in May.

thanks again

Talk to the guys in Oregon who installed John Haygarth's solar panels and find out what tape they use. I think the VHB tape idea is the best one but you might find the greatest difficulty in removing the tiedowns you install this way. So give their placement a lot of thought when you do it. Grinding them off afterwards is an option but if you could figure out a use for where they were placed that seems to me to be a win-win.

I pulled a 32-foot sailboat up from Mexico with a home-made boat trailer and a Ford COE tractor. Interesting trip. I pull our West Wight Potter all the time with the mast supported on the boat but it's not the boat yours is.

Good luck!

Craig

Elliott...What about the ICW?  :D :D  Good luck with you mast.

Shrink wrap (as previously suggested), pad with foam and secure it alongside the air conditioners and anything else that you can use on the roof.  Weight is not a problem and air resistance should not be either unless you drive at 85mph!  Stuff on the roof is well secured.  If you are going to do this often then mount permanent chocks up there.

Keith

Furthur grist for the mill  ---  Pictures of the roof
CoachRoof (http://www.loopcruiser.com/Pictures/CoachRoof/)

As yet, I don't see a good way to avoid some type of support. Diagonally has an appeal but I'll have to consider the crown of the roof. (I am trying to leave the Sat Dish in an operational state but the solution is close).

I am looking at the horn mounts but am beginning to consider "Coach Jousting" as a good alternative with ties to the mirror arms.

With the coach in one place and the mast in another, I would like to get it thought out before "marrying" the two together.

It's amazing how there isn't a straight shot anywhere on the roof - mine is the same way.  It's as if that was a design goal!

I would consider some elevated mounts (made of wood with carpet or rubber on the bottom) and bonding some boat cleats with a large flat surface to the roof with some 3M 5200 (screws optional ?) in a permanent way.  That way you'll have those cleats there for anything else in the future and not have to de-bond anything or fill screw holes.
I guess how much work you put into depends on how many times you will be doing this.

If you remove the bubble on the bath sky light and replace it with a piece of flat plastic, supports for the mast would not have to be as high.  Ditto for the cover over the bath vent, but then you might not be able to open the vent.  The  VHB tape sounds like a good way to secure it.  It would probably stick okay if the oxidation is removed with polishing compound.  Do a test and see if you can pull it off, make it wet and try again to pull it off, with just a reasonable amount of force of course or you might pull off the gel coat.  Four supports should be enough. 

To put a finish to this topic...Thanks to all who responded.

Here are pictures of the boat before and after renovation of the bottom and sides.
Ensign 695-Then and Now and Nower... (http://www.loopcruiser.com/Pictures/Ensign695/)

If you remember, I was trying to figure out how to get the boat and mast up to Marquette, Mi from Ausin, Tx.
I had secured some 3M VHB tape and manufactured some aluminium angles to stick to the roof of the coach BUT...

The guy I was working with in Marquette had a delivery to Austin, initally just a mast but later a new boat on it's own  trailer. For not a completely unreasonable fee he would tow my boat back to Michigan.

It went off today !! ;D

I assume you know the Ojibwa Casino outside/east of Marquette has free 50 amp hookups. Same casino west of Marquette but we never stayed there.

best, paul

VHB TAPE WAS THE ONE USED FOR MY PANELS AND i HAVE USED IT TO STICK ON ROOF WIND DEFLECTORS IN FRONT OF THE PANELS. tHIS IS VERY GOOD TAPE AND ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS WIPE THE AREA WITH LACQUER THINNERS QUICKLY. IT HOLDS LIKE HECK.
jOHN H

Elliott,

This is a much better solution.  See you soon.

Eliot, Not sure if you are still considering the transport of your boat and mast but I took drove my 59' mast home for painting and rewiring and back to boat in 1996/97 on a trailer. No difference from trailer or boat if you build a sturdy crutch on your fore and aft deck for support.  Forward end of my mast had to be lifted to clear the van/just allow enough height  for road irregularties, curbs etc..  worked perfectly and my tow was more difficult as, one with vehicles of equal length/pivoting in the center of total length, ie: coach and boat both in 35' range.