Our vacuum generator started leaking air a couple days ago inside it's little black box (located on passenger side of generator enclosure). It would drain the main air tanks in about 30 minutes. I talked to Bob at Foretravel and he said parts are no longer available for this, but they have a solution. They are sending me parts for about $265.
Anyone have experience/suggestions for changing this?
The quick fix for the air leak was to fold the air supply line in half and tape it so it won't unfold. That is working. He said I won't need that air line so maybe the new part is electric...
Thanks, Dick
Hi Dick, I had my vaccum pump replaced with the electric 12 Volt model, about the same price (I forget) and all has been good since in that compartment.
Like your new avatar pix, much more better.
Dave M
Dick,
If you hear air leaking at the vacuum generator then air leaks may simply due to an expanded hose as it fits over the ports of the generator. Cutting off 1/2"of tubing and pushing it back on the port may solve that problem. On the other hand, if you temporarily cap off the air line to the vacuum generator then you dash air vents may not work work properly for air conditioning.
Jim 2002 U320
They replaced mine with an electric version in 2007. $210 & $96 labor
Steve replaced ours in 2009 with the electric unit. I'm sure he'd be glad to answer any questions (on the board or over the phone, whichever you prefer).
Michelle
If the vacuum pump is anything like the pump in the nose of a GV, then any reasonable 12 volt vacuum pump will do the trick. In a GV, the Ford air conditioning dash panel has a problem with the sliding lever. On many, if it is all the way to the left, it starts a vacuum leak and will cause the vacuum pump to cycle repeatedly causing it to wear out before it's time. Putting a stop 1/4" before the end fixes the problem.
Lots of vacuum pumps at all prices at: 12 volt vacuum pump | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=12+volt+vacuum+pump&_sacat=0&_from=R40)
Pierce
I installed the vacuum pump, but it runs and runs and ...
Not sure why. I let it run for about 15 minutes before giving up. I am wondering if the tech at FOT might have snagged a vacuum line in the dog house when he tore it apart to replace the fan motor.
I hate the thought of having to tear into that. FOT flat rate is 14 hours!
Dick, Did you plug off the intake to see if the pump will shut down ? I would start there, if it does not shut down while you are plugging it you may have a faulty pump. Once you determine that the pump is good you can work down stream to find the leak.
Gary B
Here is how I found my problem: Let the pump run with the key on, open the compartment door and locate the pump by the noise it is making. Find the suction line at the pump and using a small ViceGrip or hemostat hemostats | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313&_nkw=hemostats&_sacat=0&_from=R40) , pinch off the vacuum line a couple of inches from the pump until the pump stops. Then work your way until you come to a connection where the line separates and goes off in different directions. Clamp one or the other lines until the pump stops. Just keep working further and further away from the pump until you find the problem.
I pulled the wall off the front of the heater/dash AC and checked all the vacuum actuators until I finally found the leak in the AC/heater dash control unit right in front of the driver's seat. Took about an hour to figure it out.
Using this method, you don't have to pull any lines off, just clamp them so it's fast and EZ.
Pierce
Anybody out there know if the 1997 U270 has these vacuum generators? Or, are these only used in the upgraded U300/320's?
Thanks Gary. When I put my finger on the vacuum port, the pump shuts off immediately. Also, when I pinch off the vacuum tube into this can (see photo), pump shuts off, but when I pinch the tube "out", it keeps running. What is this can and can it be repaired?
Dick, I could not open the photo.
This is probably a vacuum accumulator. Looks l;ike a juice can ? Most cars have them and they are very common. The CAN probably has a hole in it. Go to any auto parts store and they probably have one. If you get the WHAT..... Model...make...color routine, tell them the model of your car or truck. Shape and size do not matter. If there is a junk yard near by go there and look under hoods.
Gary B
Item is your vacuum reservoir. Most auto parts will have plastic ones about $15.00.Gam
The can is needed to support the stock vaccum generator. Without the can, the generator goes belly up very quickly. (Found out when a repair shop - not FOT - replaced the generator and did not hoolk up the can --- they ended up putting in another generator on their nickel.)
OK, I 'think' i get this so will take the chance.
Had been told my unit was bad but...I did not believe it. Later found out, I was correct and did not have to replace the device. However, I took a photo of it and went to NAPA store and he recognized the unit and said there are many similar models but.... no real difference. FT parts dept. quoted $274/Napa less than $50.
They also said they had plastic reservours if necessary.
right now I do not need one and when necessary will continue to support FT if I can. They are a great bunch of guys-all trying their best. However, if and when, I'll back off on some things that I might be able to save a buck on. I do want them to continue servicing older rigs and guess they will continue to, since they are now taking on many other manufactured models.
I reinstalled the air driven vacuum generator just to see. It does create a vacuum, but does not switch off when I put my finger over the vacuum port. Guess I really do need the new 12 volt vacuum gen.
FOT is drop shipping me a $15 vacuum canister.
Does seem odd that both the generator and canister would fail together though. We'll see.
After reading this thread I have a question. On our 1991, when we bought it last summer, the dash A/C was running all the time and wouldn't shut off with the A/C push button switch. (I guess the previous owner didn't mind - lived in Florida). For trips where we didn't want the A/C to run I temporarily manually disconnected the condenser fans in front and the wire to the compressor in the back.
In addition the 12V vacuum pump is dead, so we get air out of the window vents all the time. I plan to replace the 12V vac pump this spring and try to get the dash heat vents working again.
Would the lack of vacuum cause the A/C push switch to quit working?
Info on the pump is in the "Parts number" thread.
Peter,
No, That pushbutton for the AC is electrical only. Turning the fan off should turn the AC off too.
Finally got this project finished. FOT no longer has a source for the vacuum reservoir; at least not now. The factory quit making them in about 2006. A neighbor suggested filling mine with water to see where it leaked. Found the leak and he gave me a marine epoxy sealant to fix it.
Now the doors in the dash hvac work again and no air leaks!
As Pierce said, most any vacuum generator will work. The one from FOT for $260ish is a Ford part available new on eBay for about $50.00. A couple photos attached.
Barry, the last photo has the part number. E3 HT-2A451-BA
Great job with the photos. Some of the best I have seen on the forum.
$52.99 inclusive delivers it. See at: Ford Diesel HVAC 4WD Electric Vacuum Pump New | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Diesel-HVAC-4WD-Electric-Vacuum-Pump-NEW-/370716262670?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item565069410e&vxp=mtr)
Pierce
Will this smaller pump work in the older coaches, like mine - a 1991? This would be a lot cheaper than the Grainger pump shown on the parts list thread for over $300...
Part Number Collection (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=11472.msg57523#msg57523)
Are you referring to the "12 Volt Level system Compressor Part # 405ADC 38/12"
Part Number Collection (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=11472.msg116427#msg116427)
That is an Aux Compressor.
The Vacuum pump on this thread is for the dash air.
This would probably do the job nicely with a couple of small adapters: Viair 130 PSI Chrome 100C Air Compressor Kit Air Ride Suspension 12 Volt Motor | (http://www.ebay.com/itm/VIAIR-130-PSI-CHROME-100C-AIR-COMPRESSOR-KIT-AIR-RIDE-SUSPENSION-12-VOLT-MOTOR-/190815520532?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c6d7dc714&vxp=mtr)
Pierce
Pierce, would this be a replacement for the Thomas Aux Compressor for slides and leveling? If so, sure beats the $600 to $700 for the Thomas!!!
Anyone know if there would be any plumbing or mounting issues?
Most of the time, less expensive (sometimes MUCH less expensive) replacements can be found for vacuum pumps, compressors, etc. The best way is to first, find out all the specifications you can for the original unit. In the case of a compressor, you would want to know the pressure it is capable off, the duty-cycle, in other words, can it run all the time (they may get hot and burn up the internal parts), half the time, etc., the capacity in cubic feet (or inches) per minute it can produce. Rule of thumb says it should be physically as large as the original. Mounting, fittings, wiring, dryers and maximum pressure shut off are usually less of a problem and may be located externally from the original compressor or easily adapted to it. It also pays to know what your OEM compressor looks like so you can see how the replacement you have in mind would fit in the same location. Smaller compressors that try to preform as well as larger units tend to make more noise while operating. Higher speed usually means a higher noise level.
A compressor with less capacity would take longer to bring the air bags to proper position, longer to extend the slides, etc. and would need a longer duty cycle to get the job done.
The vacuum pump replacement listed earlier in this post was a real easy one. Compressors only require a little more in their selection.
The original parts like the GV air conditioning dash control, were chosen, not because they were better than anything else but because they fit the location, were available in the numbers required and were priced right. After a few years, better, less expensive alternatives MAY become available. A little research with a checklist in hand can save a bundle and even improve the operation. A bit of extra capacity may also mean that in case of an air bag with a small leak, it could cycle faster. Just saying a bit more in reserve is always good.
I was just doing a quick scan on ebay when I saw the compressor I attached. Did not take the time to read the specifications in detail.
Pierce
My 12V dash vacuum pump is dead, and instead of replacing it, I want to change to a venturi vacuum pump. I understand that some of the older Foretravel coaches used this. Here is the one I purchased to experiment with:
Dorman/Vacuum Suction Pump (911-400) | AutoZone.com (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Dorman-Vacuum-Suction-Pump/_/N-9gus8?itemIdentifier=434017_0_0_)
I have been playing with it in the shop with compressed air and it works well and generates a strong vacuum. Does anyone have any tips on how to set this up for operation in the coach i.e. how to supply air to it, at what pressure, would a regulator be good to have in the line. Any and all suggestions appreciated.
Your old pump may have failed because of a fault on the Ford slide control on the dash AC/heater. Ours kept the pump running because of a leak if the control was in the far left position. I just remember to move it over about a quarter inch to the right and the problem is solved. Other options would be to make a stop of plastic, silicone, etc for the last quarter inch so the lever would not be able to go over that far.
Any kind of 12V vacuum pump will work. Lots of cheap ones on ebay.
Pierce
Peter,
I took out the vacuum pump and all the vacuum motors and replaced the door operating motors with cable actuation. You might want to look at that. It took a few simple brackets and 2 vernier actuated locking cables along with 2 simple push pull cables. The vernier cables were needed, one for the fresh air door and the other for the vent direction(upper;lower) door. I did leave the original dash control in place to operate the fan and A/C switch along with the one cable that is operated from it.I posted some info on it a few years ago. I have limited internet access now so if you do a search you might find it.
Absolutely no problems with that system anymore.
Good luck,
Rick
Rick, very interesting, I found your old post. I am going to try a fairly cheap ($50) 12v vacuum pump I found this weekend. If that doesn't work due to hidden vacuum leaks, etc. I will be up for your cable idea. What is involved in tearing into the dash vent box, is this a weekend project, or more involved than that...just want to start to get psyched up for it...
If the Ford ac/heating sliding control is not the source of the vacuum leak, it's easy to start at the vacuum pump and then using a pair of vice grips or small clamps, just start clamping off the vacuum lines and move away from the pump towards the other components until you find the leak. The hoses/controls in the dash are not that hard to get to. You do have to find the hidden screws in the vertical carpet in front of the passenger's seat before you can pull that panel. Hopefully, you will find the leak before going that far. Goes without saying that the vacuum pump has to be turned on to do this. In a system without leaks, the pump should only turn on occasionally.
Pierce
Another thing to try is to see if it holds vacuum with the selector push buttons in different positions - should help you pinpoint which circuit the leak might be in. There is one possibility of a leak in the Ford pushbutton selector: the fresh/recirculate valve. It's shown in this thread: Heat & Air Vacuum Pump (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=11971.msg61459#msg61459)
I would stay away from a venturi vacuum. They use a lot of compressed air and are considered to be inefficient for the vacuum you get and the amount of power the compressor has to use to get it. Besides you'll need to add at least one air valve and probably a check valve too to control it so it doesn't bleed down the air when parked.
I found a number of leaks but did not chase down all of them. I can not hear the pump running on the road so it comes on a bit more than it should and I have found the big leaks anyway.
I put in the $50 vacuum pump...and...my dash vents work again. The only leaks were where the hoses attach to the vacuum canister. I just cut off about 1/2 inch to remove the loose part of the hose, and pushed back on. I put on a vacuum gauge and it holds for a long time.
Its amazing that the 22 year old Ford dash system still holds a vacuum and operates again. The new pump is much smaller than the old one, and I measured the current it draws and it is only about 0.5 amps. I put in a smaller 5 amp fuse in the fuse block (was a 15 amp fuse).
Peter,
Please share source and part number for that inexpensive vacuum pump.
Thanks.
Brett
Boy, I second that! My vacuum pump in my 2002 has been disconnected for a long time after it just started clicking. I called FT and was told that it was $265 or something. Then a buddy found me one in a MH junkyard and it worked briefly before dying too. I could tolerate $50...but $265 was absurd.
Here is the pump, it has a built-in vacuum control switch. It has a weird socket for the 12v connection - I suppose that mates with the Ford plug. I just soldered wires to the pins.
Dorman 904-214 Mechanical Vacuum Pump for Ford Truck:Amazon:Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001KQF6PC/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?qid=1379729767&sr=8-5&pi=AC_SX110_SY165)