I went today to check into buying michelin tires through the fmca program and found there are no xzaa3+ tires in Fl and they are on back order, don't know when they will come in. Called Michelin and they said they are not making that tire right now, but had some at a wqarehouse in Maine. That seemed really strange to me as now is when people are getting their coaches ready for spring and summer travels. I guess that I will go with bridgestone r280 tires. I had placed a pair on the front of our 98 and thought they drove and rode great. They are also slightly cheaper
Good reason to have a spare tire that matches the rest of the tires. I mix and match but a lot of folks don't.
Pierce
I had this problem when at the FOT factory in September and had wanted to change out my tires for new Michelins XZA3+ tires. Herman Power had some from April thru July dates(oldest were 6 months old). i did not want a tire already 6 months old considering the 'michelin advice to change out at 5 -7 yrs, months seemed quite important. I thought real strongly about other brands!!
Called Michelin and was told the Xza3+ tire was going to be made in Canada rather than the U.S. so the next production was going to be in Late Sept thru mid October and shipping, customs, inventorying etc. would take about 6 weeks before tires would be available to customers.... and First orders from dealers would be supplied first and last orders would be down the line.
I opted for 2 newest tires only and waited months for newly produced tires to arrive at H.P.
Called around Texas and found the only tires availavable were actually Older then 6 months!
I'm confused? The Michelin Rv/ Motorhome technical bulletin from May 15 2006 has the service life of all RV/motorhome tires including spares as 10 years. Is there a new service bulletin? My tires are just now 10 years old and I'm looking to replace them,and I'll be looking to repeat a 10 year service life.Gam
I would have no trouble using 10 year old tires IF:
- tires had been covered when parked in high UV
- Inflations were at or near max pressures allowed (to stiffen sidewalls and maximize load carrying capability)
- No tire or tires were overloaded from a carrying capability
Overload, heat and speed are tough on tires
and at 11 years, I would change. If I was feeling very conservative, I might change the steer tires earlier.
Problem is, is you lose front tire AND jam on the brake (reflex) the coach will DIVE in the direction of the blow out, and that can be somewhere between scary and deadly. If a rear tire goes, less danger (still plenty) of losing control, but will shred a LOT of expensive fiberglass.
SO lots of folks on the BLOG like to change tires at 5 years.
I am sure you will have a bunch more opinions than mine here, but sold over the road truck tires by the thousands for many years, and the great bulk of the issues we saw were under inflation, or worse, running one of the two tires in a set of duals flat or low in air, which overloaded the other tire and then they both went.
Air pressure is your friend (except for ride comfort)
Agree with Tim. My Michelin's are also 10 years old. I have them inspected every year at a Michelin dealer. When they say they got to go & be replaced, then I'll replace them.
That's what I have been doing .But they are 10 1/4 years old in the rear with some checking on the right outer.Only 8 1/2 years old on the front but both have a lot of outer edge wear that just started in the last 1200 miles.A return trip from Florida.Gam
Question is, what is Load range H that will fit the front? I need a pair for the front. I have one 7 year old inside dual I want to replace and the other inside is a local mismatched Michelin I put on after a blowout. My plan is to put a pair of H rated tires on the front and rotate the two 5 year old fronts to the back inside. The rear outs are the same date code as the fronts... I've got a month.
I see the R280 in LRH (295/75) is 40.3" diam versus the 40.1" of the 275/80 Michelin... Will these work on the front or rub on the airbag plates?
Here is another, somewhat different opinion - right for me but maybe not for you!
No ten year old tires for me, I have seen the damage a blow out does.
I have Michelin XZA3+ tires (a truck tire, not an RV tire) with DOT date 4812 (late November, early December 2012). They were installed on 2013 Jan 16th. I traded in Michelin truck tires with DOT 2009 Oct (less then four years old) and paid $1500, but kept one 2009 Oct as a spare. I plan to trade in again at four years of age and so pay about $400/year but drive on tires no more then 4 years old. Tires must be truck tires of common size, ie 275 80 22.5 load range "G" to trade them in (not LR H and not RV tires). They must be tires a truck company will buy. Talk to the truck tire companies in your area, not all will do this, however some will.
I have 295s LR H on mine all the way around no rubbing, Just make sure your ride hight is set correctly.
Actually, Michelin has NEVER said tires have an automatic service life of 10 years.
This, from the Michelin RV Tire Guide http://www.michelinrvtires.com/michelinrv/toolbox/reference-material.jsp (http://www.michelinrvtires.com/michelinrv/toolbox/reference-material.jsp)
The following recommendation applies to
RV/Motorhome tires. Tires are composed of various types
of material and rubber compounds, having performance
properties essential to the proper functioning of the tire
itself. These component properties evolve over time.
For each tire, this evolution depends upon many factors
such as weather, storage conditions, and conditions of
use (load, speed, inflation pressure, maintenance, etc.)
to which the tire is subjected throughout its life. This
service-related evolution varies widely so that accurately
predicting the serviceable life of any specific tire in
advance is not possible.
That is why, in addition to regular inspections and
inflation pressure maintenance by consumers, it is
recommended to have RV/Motorhome tires, including
spare tires, inspected regularly by a qualified tire
specialist, such as a tire dealer, who will assess the
tire's suitability for continued service.
Tires that have
been in use for 5 years or more should continue to be
inspected by a specialist at least annually.Consumers are strongly encouraged to be aware not
only of their tires' visual conditions and inflation
pressures, but also of any changes in dynamic
performances such as increased gas loss, noise, or
vibration, which could be an indication that the tires need
to be removed from service to prevent tire failure. It is
impossible to predict when tires should be replaced based
on their calendar age alone. However, the older a tire, the
greater the chance that it will need to be replaced due to
the service-related evolution or other conditions found
upon inspection or detected during use.
While most tires will need replacement before they
achieve 10 years, it is recommended that any tires in
service 10 years or more from the date of manufacture,
including spare tires, be replaced with new tires as a
simple precaution even if such tires appear serviceable
and even if they have not reached the legal wear limit.
For tires that were on an original equipment vehicle
(i.e. acquired by the consumer on a new vehicle), follow
the vehicle manufacturer's tire replacement
recommendations when specified (but
not to exceed
10 years).
I am also thinking tires this spring. Vulcan Tire has Yokohama RY023 295/75R22.5 LR-H tires for $402 each.
Yokohama RY023 295/75R22.5 Tires for Sale Online - Vulcan Tire Sales (http://www.vulcantire.com/tire_detail/yok023_t.htm_3514) This seems to be a decent deal. I would have to pay $290 shipping to Minneapolis, but pay no sales tax. Does anyone have experience with Yokohama?
Okay then. Do the Michelin tires have to be manufactureed for RV use for this recommendation to apply? The XZA3+ tires not RV tires but OTR commercial....not? I know I'm splitting hairs, and safety overrides all else.
With RV tires you get the enhanced UV protection to let them run more years if they're maintained properly.
When I purchased my coach it had Yomohoma tires on the front. They were very smooth and drove well. A friend had all on his coach and was very satisfied with the wear and ride. They appear to be good tires. DAN
Brett I agree with you after experiencing a tire failure on my 1999 F350 4x4 truck last week. I had the tires inspected a month earlier by a tire company and were ok. However, they were 10 years old garaged and properly inflated monthly and still failed. I will replace my FT tires a lot sooner. John
Sold Yokohama off road (mining) and over the road truck tires for years, seemed to work as better than the domestic brands, almost as good as Michelins of the day. (AHEM, it wasn't a couple of years ago.....)
Loved the TOYO's for their value proposition as well.
Especially on a 1991 coach, tires become a significant percentage of the value of the coach, so getting a very good tire for a lot less than Michelins makes a lot of sense
Call your nearest BANDAG tire recap center, or call someone in their technical group at their HQ in Muscatine IA and have a conversation about age of tires and brands. They know the ins and outs of tire brands, casings and longevity.
I recall there was an age limit to the tires they would recap (5 years?) since the recaps could be around a LONG time after they were installed.
I'm retired from Michelin so the best advice I can offer is to be VERY cautious about running any tire 10 years - it is not worth the risk to save less than $300/year by running a $4,000 set of tires 10 years instead of 6 years. Anyone who drives 5,000 miles a year will spend 8 times that amount on fuel. Also, the more a tire sits, the faster it ages as driving the rig makes the tire work and keeps the anti-oxidants and anti-ozone products working their way to the surface to help protect the tire.
One blow-out at highway speed will make you a believer.
Jeff you are exactly right. My 10 year old truck tire completely destroyed. Took a lot of effort to get it off the truck because it had the bead of the tire on the rim and the rest of the tire was wrapped around axle of the truck. It was on the right rear and it definitely got your attention. It will make replace FT way before 10 years. John
It looks like tire MFG's due to the Firestone recall of Aug 2000 issued various responses to the age service of there tires.Dot age codes where added starting in 2000. As a response to the law offices of Gary Eto that represented plaintiffs against tire MFG's for injuries and deaths caused by tire aging issue Bridgestone firestone in Oct 2005 recommended that all tires should be replaced after 10 years and Michelin and Continental soon followed Firestones lead.To me condition and history are still by far the most important factores,with the 10 years a good number for just changing them { a leagal thing for the MFG's?}Gam
Brett,
I think that your link may be broken (throws an error message).
Neal
Wyatt, You might want to check that info. Michelin had listed the XZA3+'s as an RV tire for years (see attached brochure). That means RV Compounds in the tire's rubber composition vs. Truck tire compounds.
As "2Escapees" has pointed out, the primary differences between RV and TRUCK tires are in the proprietary compounds used in the rubber for the intended tire service.
Before AND Beyond five years of service, ALL RV tires bear careful attention to detail, because their service is much closer to the design margins than most laymen have extensive experience with. They are not like our automobile tires in terms of design margins and RV tires need careful attention to all details. Any tire of any tire brand may experience a myriad of hidden damages and defects that may propagate to failure, but ten years is universally accepted as end of RV tire life. Some brands have better and some have lesser track records, in terms of the average time between failures.
Truck tire compounds are not engineered to sit idle for long periods of time, so if you seldom sit idle, by all means use a truck tire. At the time, because we seldom sat idle for more than a few days, I used an XZA1 "B" set of Truck tires for our second set of tires. They were a little harsher riding and sounding (barely perceptible) and they gave 9+ years of service without a sign of problem.
Truck tire compounds stand up better under high mileage, frequent, rugged use. And their aging protection compounds work to the surface more slowly. RV tire compounds, on the other hand, are engineered to better protect the sitting or "idle" rubber from oxidizing, degrading from UV and ozone exposure, and from wicking of moisture from the surface that the tire sits upon (all of which we can take addition precautions in helping to protect and lengthen the useful lifetime of our tires). RV tire compounds work to the surface more quickly and the proprietary composition is quite different.
I have found that some truck tire dealers actually look for lightly used RV tires, because they have a market for tires that won't be used with high mileage, high payload situations and have benefited from the RV compounds (they would prefer a 6 - 9 year old RV tire over a 6 - 9 truck tire, because of the RV tire compounding and because neither are eligible for retreading, which generally expires at 5 years).
More fodder,
Neal
A good read for me on the internet was ,lets talk tire replacement time rv network. As for replacement at 5 years I can only find that from the vehicle MFG's not the tire MFG's. I think the vehicle MFG's wont no legal responsibility for older tires they put on the vehicles as original equipment .Back to the Ford Firestone recalls of 2000.Gam
FYI for Florida XZA 3+ - I checked with my local TCI tires dealer in Orlando and he has 10 LR H and 3 LR G in stock. I'm going down next week for a pair of 'H'. Then next year we do the other 4 likely in LR G (no need for 'H on the rear)....
Tim...so...are you saying my coach is old...ROFL :P :P
After asking advice from Jim Freytag (retired from the tire business) we put on Bridgestone and couldn't be happier.
I prefer the term "seasoned" or in Wisconsin it would be "fully Krauesened"
I had the r280 29r/75r22.5 on the front of our 98 u295 and had no problem with clearance
The XZA3+ is a great tire evolving from the XAZ1, XZA2, etc. as Michelin's fuel efficient long haul all position tire. We sell lots of them fleets like Swift because of the benefits to fleet operators and the carcass is very popular with retreaders like Bandag and TCI who uses the Michelin retread process. It is a long haul commercial tire but does make a fine RV tire because the application (usage) is similar. It is made in Canadian and/or U.S. plants depending on the way the company balances overall capacity loading of each plant. It also can come from Europe, but there is not much of a market for this tire in Europe their operational characteristics are more like what we in the U.S. call a regional application with a mix of long haul and urban driving.
Aftermarket (replacement/dealer) and O.E. (original equipment) markets do compete for the same manufacturing capacity. So when Freightliner or Volvo have a large order for Michelin spec'd trucks, that does put pressure on the capacity and usually the dealers lose the tug-of-war. Ironically, dealer business is generally more profitable the O.E. business but when you dance with a Guerrilla you know who gets to lead.
Ordered 6 new XZA3+s three weeks ago via the FMCA designate in Las Cruces and have arrived via Houston. Date stamped 7th week of 2013. Will be mounted and spin balanced midweek next week.
Congratulation on the new Michelins!
If you haven't done so already have all 4 wheel positions weighed to aid you in setting the tires pressures. Escapees does weighing for (SKPs and non members too) in Livingston and at their national rally. FMCA always has someone weighing at their big events too.
If that doesn't work for your schedule, you can always weigh each axle on a Cat scale at Pilot, Flying J, etc. Add 500 pounds to the estimated wheel position weight (axle weight/2) to compensate for side-to-side weight differences and use that value in the Michelin load and inflation tables. My previous coach (not a Foretravel) had over 1,000 pounds difference in side-to-side weights!!
I have never heard of a difference that big on a Foretravel. :)
+1
We used RVSEF for our weighing since they happened to be at a campground the same time as us. You can check/watch their calendar for a convenient location Weighing Schedule | RV Safety.com (http://rvsafety.com/weighing-schedule/) (looks like they're due to be in Elephant Butte, NM next week)
Michelle
Yep, RVSEF is great and it really helps to support them as a lot of their funding comes from manufacturers (including Michelin) and that money had been under pressure the last few years due to economic conditions. They had to reduce their schedule because of funding issues - so definitely use them.
They also keep statistics and use them during their seminars - I believe they say approximately 50% of the rigs they weigh have an overload situation; most are wheel position overloads but they see it all. They don't break out statistics by brand, but the overload percentages are about the same for trailers and motorhomes.
I just saw they will be at the grandvention in TN this year.
Weighing Schedule | RV Safety.com (http://rvsafety.com/weighing-schedule/)
You can simply get your weight on the CAT Scales at most truck stops, fore & aft also left & right. just position what you want.
Yes, I agree with that but most scales make it hard to do each wheel position. They will do each axle but you have to weigh twice if you can get over far enough to get one set of wheels off. Many of the cat scales I have seen make it hard to do.
Should be taking possession of the coach (finally) on Tues. Tires should be going on Wed of next week. Tow brackets/brakes go on the jeep on Thurs/Friday. We will stay in Las Cruces for a few days then off to Livingston for domicile stuff at SKPs. Didn't know they do scaling. However, we will only have a minimal amount of gear in the coach as everything we own in in a 4 x 6' Uhaul trailer. Would it still make sense to have each wheel scaled?
I've been told that the ideal arrangement is to weigh each corner with full fuel, propane, and water, people, and nothing else. That will let you know how to load the coach. Then, when you are all ready to hit the road, weigh each corner again. That will tell you whether you have overloaded a corner, and whether you are reasonably in balance fore-and-aft and side-to-side. Should you find a major discrepancy, move stuff around and weigh again. All the weighing could get a bit expensive until you balance that cost with the cost of a blow-out and damage to the coach.
David,
Caveat: You check and adjust ride height (three ride height valves) BEFORE you weigh. An out of adjustment ride height valve can move a lot of weight from one side to the other.
And since it only takes a couple of minutes to check, it should be done at least once a year.
Brett
Thanks, Brett. That's something else on my to-do list now.
I've not found truck scales where I could one side of the coach off the scales. What am I missing?
We have weighed our coach many times at closed State weigh stations that keep scale open and readout visible. We 9 points.
December 19, 2012, 06:01:16 AM »
Installed 4 XZA3+Directional tires before leaving home in Nov.2012. Had all 6 tires set to 120 psi as recommended by dealer. That PSI was also confirmed by the Michelin rep at the Tampa RV show in Jan 2013 as the recommended pressure.
The 2 front XZA3 Directional tires were installed 1/18/10. They were are now in the rear inside position.
On our 1,500 mile drive South, the ride was much firmer and steering more stable. Less wandering on the road.
Still may have the factory check the alignment if & when we get there.
Huh, that seems to be in direct contrast to Michelins own recommended tire pressure by weight chart. We have one year old XZA3+ too and I keep the pressures about 10lb's over the chart's which equals 85 rear, 100 front.
I thought about running higher pressure for stiffer sidewall better tracking but after reading the Michelin Rv tire data it seems they recommend their data for best tire life and ride.
Getting an alignment in Nac on Tuesday so I may revisit pressures.
Dean
Just curious-- what FACTS did they use to determine that 120 PSI was the correct pressure for YOUR tires.
If they did not ask for wheel position weight (best) or axle weights, they did you a great disservice. Confirm this by going to Michelin's own inflation table and note the huge range of factory recommended pressures, ALL BASED ON ACTUAL WEIGHTS.
Their "reduced" air pressure is for ride comfort, not tire life.
We had the old tires at lower pressure, like you did, but incurred sidewall cracking. Even tho we cover the tires when not in use.
We like the ride now. Lot less side to side rock & rolling and pitching front to back.
Anyway, that's my opinion and with a cold beer, I'm a happy camper.
p.s. Still "Stuck" in the Florida Keys.
You got it right. Lower pressure contributes to less stability and handling, longer stopping distances, less fuel mileage, higher heat in warm weather making the tire more prone to failure, more prone to pothole damage, slower acceleration, faster tread wear.
You can't have a cushy, super soft ride with the higher pressures. The Michelin rep and your tire dealer are living in the real world, not an election year world where promises are made that everyone wants to hear.
Bus companies, truckers, emergency services all run the pressures recommended to you. 80 psi vs. 120 psi will see a big loss in fuel mileage.
New tires will always use more fuel for several thousand miles until they "break in". This is a point GM brought up along with front end alignment as factors causing a decrease in fuel mileage.
Pierce
I think most tire dealers tell people to run the max pressure on the tire's sidewall to cover themselves legally and most (if not all) RV dealers don't have a clue about the subject. Handling is very sensitive to tire pressure, too high and you are riding on the center tread ribs and will have poorer tracking plus a harsh ride. Too low and you are running more weight on the shoulder ribs and risk exceeding the tire's weight carrying capacity.
They assume most RV drivers are too lazy to check pressures frequently and a high starting pressure gives them a bigger safety margin. Trucking fleets never know how heavy their next load will be (will it weigh out or cube out?) so they go on the safe side of tire pressures. The weight of your motor home is not going to change anything like a commercial tractor-trailer so you can be more precise in setting tire pressures to get optimum ride and handling characteristics from your tires.
Boy, some compelling arguments both ways here. I remember seeing, way back, a comment made about driving your tires through a puddle and then looking at the tread pattern to see distribution of load. That seems to have some merit, don't recall the poster but would sure be interested in hearing him expound on it. As far as ride, 85 psi vs 120 psi, I don't see enough difference to matter one way or the other, it still rides like a Foretravel on 8 air bags...nicely. Higher pressures sure seem to give better side to side stability through curves, for me the jury is still out on tracking stability.
Chuck
I found that my coach was much better tracking on the road at 105 psi in the front.
I am a firm believer in the KISS principal. After working for trucking companies years ago and listening to tire dealers ( with Foretravels ) I tend to believe them. I run 110 in all tires and until last Friday never had a problem.
As we left town for a weekend rally I decided to pull into the tire shop to check pressures ( I had checked on my own a week ago ). The RF tire was down to 70 PSI. The tech found a leaking valve stem. When it was removed it was obvious that corrosion had attacked the stem INSIDE the tire and the O Ring was hard as a rock. New Stem, remount and we were on our way. These stems are about five years old and were installed when the tires were new, I'll watch the rest of them closely now.
Gary B
Just thinking but is it possible that the corrosion of the valve stem was caused by a lot of water vapor in the compressed air used to fill and maintain your tires,and can that lead to some corrosion of the steel belts. Thats another reason I like to use the air brake system air on the road.Gam
Joseph, The tech checked inside the tire and it was dry as a bone, I use on board air and the tire shop uses an air dryer so I doubt that it was moisture from those sources. I really don't know if a tire will sweat from atmosphere temp changes or not.
Gary B
Good to hear . I had read that some of the tire MFG's now think that water in the compressed air and not from outside the tires is the cause of steel belt problems. The water vapor inside the tire is forced out through the rubber of the tire leading to rust in the steel belts. That sound more plausible to me than when they said it was water from outside the tire working it's way in.Gam
Had Wayne here at FOT align the front end this morning. FWIW we had a short discussion on the tire pressure's and what's best for handling etc and he was quite insistant that the Michelin weight to pressure chart is the rule to use. He thought that my 10lb's over the chart that I use was too high.
Anyway, I have to say that I was wondering when I got here if I was wasting time and money doing an alignment because it was handling okay even in the heavy crosswinds coming up from the RGV on Saturday.
It made a huge difference. Drove it about 15 miles and I couldn't believe how well it handled. No more twitching and constant correction. Steering wheel is back on center too. Was to the right about 2".
Off topic but brakes looked nearly new except drivers rear pads are down to 25% or so. Wayne thinks something may have hung up in the adjusters at some point which wore them out. Replacing those tommorow.
Dean